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Just got back from a day on robin hoods, the day was going well toproping the above route, till it was wired, then the lead came
a good effort from young james (17) doing it with ease, a good E7 tick (watch out for him)
Then it was Keiths turn, looking nervous, he set off, slipped on the first move, but then regained composure, and set of agian, he was looking smooth, he is smearing on the last foot hold, popped round the corner at the top for the finishing jug, he got it, wey hey we all shouted, but then as he ajusted his had, off he came, plumitting to the ground, to all our amazment, he was stood laughing on the boulder mat on the ground, a total ground fall, and he is stood there like he he hasnt set off...
A bit of a laugh and a spot of blood later, realized he had popped his finger, so off he went to casualty just to make sure it was ok.........
Good effort my old son, I will see you later.
Just shows you can take a full ground fall on an E7 from the last hold and still walk away.
a good effort from young james (17) doing it with ease, a good E7 tick (watch out for him)
Then it was Keiths turn, looking nervous, he set off, slipped on the first move, but then regained composure, and set of agian, he was looking smooth, he is smearing on the last foot hold, popped round the corner at the top for the finishing jug, he got it, wey hey we all shouted, but then as he ajusted his had, off he came, plumitting to the ground, to all our amazment, he was stood laughing on the boulder mat on the ground, a total ground fall, and he is stood there like he he hasnt set off...
A bit of a laugh and a spot of blood later, realized he had popped his finger, so off he went to casualty just to make sure it was ok.........
Good effort my old son, I will see you later.
Just shows you can take a full ground fall on an E7 from the last hold and still walk away.
In reply to Freeclimb: and all that happened to my finger was some swollen ligaments and a bit of tape... only a few weeks off and i'll be back on it.
once again, congrats to james. everyone who knows him knows he is an awesome climber, and a star of the future for sure.
once again, congrats to james. everyone who knows him knows he is an awesome climber, and a star of the future for sure.
In reply to Freeclimb: how did all the photos come out?
In reply to Freeclimb: good stuff, cheers. oh, and when are you coming back up north? if it's friday, could i hitch a lift with you?
In reply to Freeclimb:
Curious. In the topic you show some acknowledgement of the style (or lack thereof) of the ascents mentioned, yet in your actual post you continue to praise, rave, and spooge without any ethical awareness.
Isn't that rather passe?? KK is what....17 years old or something?? And with the gear, a swift belayer and what-have-you, not that dangerous. Isn't about time people started posting about on-sighting such routes, not the same old headpoint drivel...have we progressed so little in 17 years??
Hardly a good E7 tick when it's been headpointed though. When he on-sights E7 he can claim a good E7 tick....is that likely to happen when people heap on praise for doing something so unremarkable as headpointing such routes??
Oh, and a boulder mat. Need you be reminded that not only is the E7 grade for an on-sight, it was also given well before the existence of bouldering mats??
See above. Try it on-sight without a mat (use the swift belayer if you like), and then start bragging and praising about ascents and groundfalls and suchlike. I, for one, *would* be impressed and interested then.
Curious. In the topic you show some acknowledgement of the style (or lack thereof) of the ascents mentioned, yet in your actual post you continue to praise, rave, and spooge without any ethical awareness.
> Just got back from a day on robin hoods, the day was going well toproping the above route, till it was wired, then the lead came
Isn't that rather passe?? KK is what....17 years old or something?? And with the gear, a swift belayer and what-have-you, not that dangerous. Isn't about time people started posting about on-sighting such routes, not the same old headpoint drivel...have we progressed so little in 17 years??
> a good effort from young james (17) doing it with ease, a good E7 tick (watch out for him)
Hardly a good E7 tick when it's been headpointed though. When he on-sights E7 he can claim a good E7 tick....is that likely to happen when people heap on praise for doing something so unremarkable as headpointing such routes??
> he was stood laughing on the boulder mat on the ground
Oh, and a boulder mat. Need you be reminded that not only is the E7 grade for an on-sight, it was also given well before the existence of bouldering mats??
> Just shows you can take a full ground fall on an E7 from the last hold and still walk away.
See above. Try it on-sight without a mat (use the swift belayer if you like), and then start bragging and praising about ascents and groundfalls and suchlike. I, for one, *would* be impressed and interested then.
In reply to Freeclimb:
Yeah - I've bouldered with James at Wirksworth while ago and certainly very impressive climber for his ages. You lots better watch out for him.
Congrat James! Good on ya.
Yeah - I've bouldered with James at Wirksworth while ago and certainly very impressive climber for his ages. You lots better watch out for him.
Congrat James! Good on ya.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice: bit harsh to slag someone off for wanting to share an experience, everyone should be able to freely recount their experiences whatever level they are climbing at.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice; tell us what you regularly onsight then. or are you one of those who would rather stay quiet at the pub because you had nothing you thought "good enough" to share? it was just someone saying what they had done, and i only toproped it about 4 times, once all the way through, but this is irrelevant... go and read some other thread about kinky sex which is far more pertinent than something about climbing.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice:
Classic Fiend! How I've missed your insane rantings! I'll have to start a V-grade thread just so I can read more of your words of wisdom.
Classic Fiend! How I've missed your insane rantings! I'll have to start a V-grade thread just so I can read more of your words of wisdom.
In reply to jon:
Too right - I've certainly missed his tedious bobbins - anyone for a pathetic argument about how excellent the UK technical grade is for boulder problems??
Too right - I've certainly missed his tedious bobbins - anyone for a pathetic argument about how excellent the UK technical grade is for boulder problems??
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice:
What was the point of that post? Headpointing is a style of ascent, you may not like it, it may not be the purest, but it certainly counts!
Besides, surely falling of the last move (and not seriously injuring yourself - well done!) requires some sort of congratulations.
If you havent got owt better to say, why bother being a wan*er for the sake of it?
What was the point of that post? Headpointing is a style of ascent, you may not like it, it may not be the purest, but it certainly counts!
Besides, surely falling of the last move (and not seriously injuring yourself - well done!) requires some sort of congratulations.
If you havent got owt better to say, why bother being a wan*er for the sake of it?
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice:
Big words, from such a lowly climber. You must be so disappointed with your own achievements, if only an onsight ,no mats, slow belayed ascent of an E7 is of any worth to you. You have a long way to go.
You are in no such position to comment on the merits or ethics of this ascent.
Good effort james, I'll have a beer on your behalf!
Big words, from such a lowly climber. You must be so disappointed with your own achievements, if only an onsight ,no mats, slow belayed ascent of an E7 is of any worth to you. You have a long way to go.
You are in no such position to comment on the merits or ethics of this ascent.
Good effort james, I'll have a beer on your behalf!
In reply to AndiT:
Assuming James is the same James I met on Sunday afternoon at the Roaches does anyone know if he got back on the route he was trying? And did he do it? And who was the bloke going for the onsight?
Assuming James is the same James I met on Sunday afternoon at the Roaches does anyone know if he got back on the route he was trying? And did he do it? And who was the bloke going for the onsight?
In reply to Nik at work:
Oh I was the short hairy bloke with the cold girlfriend.
Oh I was the short hairy bloke with the cold girlfriend.
In reply to Freeclimb: I, keith, was the fool going for it onsight... which i have saved for another day. well, another month now due to this crippled finger. and James is the same james, he's not been back on it, but he had it wired on a top rope so i was told...
In reply to AndiT:
I don't agree with Fiend, and I applaud James' effort on KK. However...I also think that you're wrong in saying that just because Fiend doesn't on-sight E7 he's not entitled to an opinion.
> You are in no such position to comment on the merits or ethics of this ascent.
I don't agree with Fiend, and I applaud James' effort on KK. However...I also think that you're wrong in saying that just because Fiend doesn't on-sight E7 he's not entitled to an opinion.
In reply to unclesomebody:
did your belayer jump the ledge though - that sorts out a fall from that heinous last pebble.....
did your belayer jump the ledge though - that sorts out a fall from that heinous last pebble.....
In reply to Nik at work:
Do girlfriends ever come in the warm variety?
> Oh I was the short hairy bloke with the cold girlfriend.
Do girlfriends ever come in the warm variety?
In reply to unclesomebody: i was one of a group of 4 watching you being forced to reverse it by your "mates". quiet disappointed as a wanted to show me missus an e8 onsight solo/fall. awesomely impressive effort though
In reply to Freeclimb: you should have been at RHS yesterday, you could have seen a full on E7 lead fall. From last hold, literally, to ground. oh well, didn't even get any photos of the fall!
In reply to FishCake: The jump is completely the wrong thing to do. The belayer takes in too much slack and the leader hits their knees or face on the lip of the cave. If the belayer takes a good step back, the leader falls safely and their feet just toutch the floor on rope stretch.
Cheers
James
Cheers
James
In reply to James:
i am glad my leader didnt fall then because i was perched, cat like, ready to jump!
i am glad my leader didnt fall then because i was perched, cat like, ready to jump!
In reply to Paul Boardman:
mine was warm once, then we moved in together....
>
>
> Do girlfriends ever come in the warm variety?
>
> Do girlfriends ever come in the warm variety?
mine was warm once, then we moved in together....
In reply to Freeclimb:
Fiend, you dick, can I just point out that firstly, this was James' second ever lead, and secondly that KK is notoriously hard and insecure for the short at the top.
Why's are some so keen to pull people down instead offering congratulations where they're due.
Fiend, you dick, can I just point out that firstly, this was James' second ever lead, and secondly that KK is notoriously hard and insecure for the short at the top.
Why's are some so keen to pull people down instead offering congratulations where they're due.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice:
Did you onsight your personal hardest grit route with out a mat?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=3360
Did you onsight your personal hardest grit route with out a mat?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=3360
In reply to Bubba UKB:
seriously?
> (In reply to Freeclimb)
>
..."this was James' second ever lead..."
>
seriously?
Yeah, think he did a grit E5 somewhere as his first one, though not exactly sure about that.
In reply to FishCake:
Yes that would be advisable! I think I am heading in that direction too!!
Afterall James only have been climbing just tad over a year.
Yes that would be advisable! I think I am heading in that direction too!!
Afterall James only have been climbing just tad over a year.
In reply to CragHead:
Sounds to me like this chap spends more time at the wall than gettin outside (weather permitting)!
Sounds to me like this chap spends more time at the wall than gettin outside (weather permitting)!
It's strange that in this discussion the majority seem to be defending a toproped practice, whilst in a similar thread a few weeks ago someone was widely criticised for using the same technique (on an easier route). Is this a question of grades, or just a different group of people?
Very impressive for a second lead though.
Mark
Very impressive for a second lead though.
Mark
In reply to mole:
My first lead was on Sunday at the Roaches. I did Ascent of man E3 6a. I have done a few solos before but nothing hard. The suposed E5 was a 3 move wonder at stanage. It started from a ledge at about 2/3rds the hight of the crag. It didnt feel more than E1, ridiculous.
Cheers
James
My first lead was on Sunday at the Roaches. I did Ascent of man E3 6a. I have done a few solos before but nothing hard. The suposed E5 was a 3 move wonder at stanage. It started from a ledge at about 2/3rds the hight of the crag. It didnt feel more than E1, ridiculous.
> Sounds to me like this chap spends more time at the wall than gettin outside (weather permitting)!
I hate climbing walls and spend as little time there as possible. I mainly boulder. One day, I just fancied doing some routes, so I bought a rack and just did them.
Cheers
James
In reply to James:
Yeah James, watch it! ;P
Good effort on Kaluza Klein. Johnny thought it was solid E8 for shorties, it's certainly technically very testing, no?
Did you jump for the flutings on the lead?
Yeah James, watch it! ;P
Good effort on Kaluza Klein. Johnny thought it was solid E8 for shorties, it's certainly technically very testing, no?
Did you jump for the flutings on the lead?
In reply to James:
It's amazing what bouldering does for you and what these young boulderers can do.
Take a leading course though. You'll learn a lot....knots and stuff, belay techniques, rope management, understanding forces, equalizing anchors and then you'll really have fun.
Mick
>
> I hate climbing walls and spend as little time there as possible. I mainly boulder. One day, I just fancied doing some routes, so I bought a rack and just did them.
> I hate climbing walls and spend as little time there as possible. I mainly boulder. One day, I just fancied doing some routes, so I bought a rack and just did them.
It's amazing what bouldering does for you and what these young boulderers can do.
Take a leading course though. You'll learn a lot....knots and stuff, belay techniques, rope management, understanding forces, equalizing anchors and then you'll really have fun.
Mick
In reply to James:
Was the E5 at Stanage Nihilistic Narl perchance. Used to be E4 and I have no idea why it went up to E5 - typo?
Good effort on Kaluzla, you're well short. Even shorter than me which is saying something!
In reply to Unclesomebody:
You must be mental, your profile has your best onsight down as E3!!!! There's no doubting the size of your bollocks
In reply to Bubba:
You speak the truth there my friend, fiend you are way off the target on this one I'm afraid.
Was the E5 at Stanage Nihilistic Narl perchance. Used to be E4 and I have no idea why it went up to E5 - typo?
Good effort on Kaluzla, you're well short. Even shorter than me which is saying something!
In reply to Unclesomebody:
You must be mental, your profile has your best onsight down as E3!!!! There's no doubting the size of your bollocks
In reply to Bubba:
You speak the truth there my friend, fiend you are way off the target on this one I'm afraid.
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
You patronising arse...
You patronising arse...
In reply to midgets of the world unite: It is fairly techincal and very thin. It is so easy to fall off.
On a top, rope I was having to make a big slap to the flutings (im only about 5ft4). I had to cut lose with my left foot and I was at full stretch (tip of toe to tip of fingers). On the lead the move felt great. I did it almost static, amazing what addrenalin does. I spoke to Johnny about it and he did a similar move but a bit more dymnamicly. He sid he thought it was the first E8 he did. Having not done an E8, I dont know what one would feel like. It might have been E8 for me but I couldnt say. All I know is that it is a cracking route.
In reply to Mick:
The people I climb with are teaching me. They check all my nots and advise me on gear pacements etc. They are realy helpful.
Cheers
James
On a top, rope I was having to make a big slap to the flutings (im only about 5ft4). I had to cut lose with my left foot and I was at full stretch (tip of toe to tip of fingers). On the lead the move felt great. I did it almost static, amazing what addrenalin does. I spoke to Johnny about it and he did a similar move but a bit more dymnamicly. He sid he thought it was the first E8 he did. Having not done an E8, I dont know what one would feel like. It might have been E8 for me but I couldnt say. All I know is that it is a cracking route.
In reply to Mick:
The people I climb with are teaching me. They check all my nots and advise me on gear pacements etc. They are realy helpful.
Cheers
James
In reply to James Pearson:
Blimey! I backed out of leading this, wholly because I couldn't find a way of getting to the fluting with my feet on, and kept barndooring off.
Good lead.
Blimey! I backed out of leading this, wholly because I couldn't find a way of getting to the fluting with my feet on, and kept barndooring off.
Good lead.
In reply to Nik at work:
That maybe so "Nik with the cold girlfriend" but sage advice is often interpretted as such.
Young climbers should be forced by the BMC to take leading courses.
That should be the primary function of the BMC....woops wrong thread.
Mick
> (In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA)
> You patronising arse...
> You patronising arse...
That maybe so "Nik with the cold girlfriend" but sage advice is often interpretted as such.
Young climbers should be forced by the BMC to take leading courses.
That should be the primary function of the BMC....woops wrong thread.
Mick
In reply to James Pearson:
That's good. It's great to have knowlegeable mentors.
M
>
> In reply to Mick:
> The people I climb with are teaching me. They check all my nots and advise me on gear pacements etc. They are realy helpful.
> In reply to Mick:
> The people I climb with are teaching me. They check all my nots and advise me on gear pacements etc. They are realy helpful.
That's good. It's great to have knowlegeable mentors.
M
In reply to Nik at work: Yeah, thats the one. Nice climbing but piss easy. No way is it E5.
Have you done Kaluza? Keith is crazy. I did it every time on a toprope and was wary to go for it. He tried it a few times and just said lets do it. He got the flutings at the top but caught them realy low down. He was about to slap into the good bit when his left foot popped and down he came. Crazy.
Cheers
James
Have you done Kaluza? Keith is crazy. I did it every time on a toprope and was wary to go for it. He tried it a few times and just said lets do it. He got the flutings at the top but caught them realy low down. He was about to slap into the good bit when his left foot popped and down he came. Crazy.
Cheers
James
In reply to James Pearson:
Not done Kaluza. First time I went climbing with Dan he threw himself from the top of it three times which kind of put me off (at the time I'd only led one route - and that was HVS).
Well impressed.
Cheers
Nik
Not done Kaluza. First time I went climbing with Dan he threw himself from the top of it three times which kind of put me off (at the time I'd only led one route - and that was HVS).
Well impressed.
Cheers
Nik
In reply to James:
Sorry for bein negetive but I cant help but laugh to find out that someone who hates climbing walls and spends as little time possible there...... and.... has only been climbing for just over a year can climb E7....! There cant be many people who boulder outside and hate climbing walls that can get this good with british weather.
Sorry for bein negetive but I cant help but laugh to find out that someone who hates climbing walls and spends as little time possible there...... and.... has only been climbing for just over a year can climb E7....! There cant be many people who boulder outside and hate climbing walls that can get this good with british weather.
In reply to James Pearson:
Congrats on KK, esp. as your short, but I suggest you don't start questioning route grades until you've led quite a few more routes, unless you want to put peoples back up? You might be right, but how would you know?
Congrats on KK, esp. as your short, but I suggest you don't start questioning route grades until you've led quite a few more routes, unless you want to put peoples back up? You might be right, but how would you know?
In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:
I agree to many people go from bouldering hard to routing hard without the relevant lead skills. Some are lucky and learn on the way, some break themselves before they get that far.
I agree to many people go from bouldering hard to routing hard without the relevant lead skills. Some are lucky and learn on the way, some break themselves before they get that far.
In reply to James Pearson:
Congrats anyway!
Congrats anyway!
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice:
Thats a bit over the top dont you think?
He is a wicked climber and as a second lead top roped or not he must have some balls.
Good effort James!
Thats a bit over the top dont you think?
He is a wicked climber and as a second lead top roped or not he must have some balls.
Good effort James!
In reply to Freeclimb: I think both james and I are of a new breed of climber, of which there are many. We start climbing, and are psyched by it, and just want to get better and better. We mainly boulder because that is the best way to get strong. I look at a route and what matters is the tech grade, not the E grade. I think how hard can i boulder, and that determines whether i can do the route. That is why i went for KK after a couple of top ropes. I knew i was strong enough to do, i knew i had the relevant amount of skill, so i went for it. The fact i fell off was unlucky. Just a small slip and that was it. I climbed E6 within a year of starting climbing, because i bouldered, bouldered, bouldered. That is the only way to get strong enough for hard routes. James is in a similar vein, he boulders loads, and he is so good. B10 in a year of climbing is awesome. so, look out for him.
I know some people who thinkk james should be leading E1 and other easy routes, but i think he has it right. Just get strong and then worry about doing big routes afterwards. Maybe not in the spirit of climbing as some people see it, but that is subjective, and i don't think anyone has the right to claim to know the true spirit of climbing. we all do it because we love it.
I know some people who thinkk james should be leading E1 and other easy routes, but i think he has it right. Just get strong and then worry about doing big routes afterwards. Maybe not in the spirit of climbing as some people see it, but that is subjective, and i don't think anyone has the right to claim to know the true spirit of climbing. we all do it because we love it.
In reply to Jon Read:
Thanks for the congrats but I do woner if you have read my posts.
>I suggest you don't start questioning route grades until you've led quite a few more routes, unless you want to put peoples back up? You might be right, but how would you know?
As I said, it might be E8 for me but I dont know because I have never done another E8 I dont know what an E8 feels like, I am only going off what Johnny told me.
Thanks for the congrats but I do woner if you have read my posts.
>I suggest you don't start questioning route grades until you've led quite a few more routes, unless you want to put peoples back up? You might be right, but how would you know?
As I said, it might be E8 for me but I dont know because I have never done another E8 I dont know what an E8 feels like, I am only going off what Johnny told me.
In reply to unclesomebody: I suppose that is a fair attitude to have, but I warn you that you can get into some sticky situations if you are a bit too gung ho. Grit is one thing where the routes are not much longer than a decent highball, but I wouldn't suggest going to Wales and trying Lord or even Right Wall for example without ticking some good old E1-4's for a month or two!
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyethicspolice:
Well lots of people have given you a deserved roasting, so I won't.
HOWEVER, maybe fiend has a point in that KK is E7 for the on-sight. Personally, I'd claim an E7 red/headpoint, but not with the use of boulder mats, as that will render it somewhat less than E7.
That all said, at least the guys have been honest about their ascent, and it is still a very impressive lead. Well done.
Well lots of people have given you a deserved roasting, so I won't.
HOWEVER, maybe fiend has a point in that KK is E7 for the on-sight. Personally, I'd claim an E7 red/headpoint, but not with the use of boulder mats, as that will render it somewhat less than E7.
That all said, at least the guys have been honest about their ascent, and it is still a very impressive lead. Well done.
In reply to James Pearson:
Remember the moment you latched the finishing jugs on KK, that is what climbing is about.
I am continuously amazed that discussing grades attracts so much interest... however, if you graded KK E8 if you are less than 5'5" (with a neutral ape index) are you effectively telling people too much to allow them to then count it as an on-sight??
Happy days,
Remember the moment you latched the finishing jugs on KK, that is what climbing is about.
I am continuously amazed that discussing grades attracts so much interest... however, if you graded KK E8 if you are less than 5'5" (with a neutral ape index) are you effectively telling people too much to allow them to then count it as an on-sight??
Happy days,
In reply to Jon Read:
> (In reply to James Pearson)
> Congrats on KK, esp. as your short, but I suggest you don't start questioning route grades until you've led quite a few more routes, unless you want to put peoples back up? You might be right, but how would you know?
I pressume this comment is about Nihilistic Narl as he never questioned the grade of KK. In which case he is totally on the money as it is well overgraded at E5 (although to be fair I think it would be a very harsh E1 which was the grade he suggested - I'd go for E3 myself)
> Congrats on KK, esp. as your short, but I suggest you don't start questioning route grades until you've led quite a few more routes, unless you want to put peoples back up? You might be right, but how would you know?
In reply to Nik at work:
Yes. Just a reminder, not a telling off. I've not been on NN so cannae comment on it!
Yes. Just a reminder, not a telling off. I've not been on NN so cannae comment on it!
In reply to Jon Read:
Well any boulderers who want to become overnight E5 climbers head to Nihilistic Narl - Ta-dah, and you don't even need a rope as it's a solo.
Well any boulderers who want to become overnight E5 climbers head to Nihilistic Narl - Ta-dah, and you don't even need a rope as it's a solo.
In reply to Nik at work:
Likewise, I have in my possession The Gritstoner's Cheat Guide to higher sport numbers at Buoux.
Likewise, I have in my possession The Gritstoner's Cheat Guide to higher sport numbers at Buoux.
In reply to Jon Read:
Still doubt I'd be able to do any of them. I am the most chronically bad sport climber you will ever meet in your life.
Still doubt I'd be able to do any of them. I am the most chronically bad sport climber you will ever meet in your life.
In reply to Nik at work: coming to portland then?!?
In reply to Simon Tyler:
Let me guess, an evil combination of sport climbing and limestone?
I can't really make it that weekend I'm ummmmmmmmm.....
Well I'm busy, you know, doing stuff.
Very important, can't get out of it.
Ummmmm...
Have fun?
No I won't be there.
Let me guess, an evil combination of sport climbing and limestone?
I can't really make it that weekend I'm ummmmmmmmm.....
Well I'm busy, you know, doing stuff.
Very important, can't get out of it.
Ummmmm...
Have fun?
No I won't be there.
In reply to Jon Read:
I'm always interested in soft touch routes (guess I'm going to do Nihlistic whatsit at the weekend) and am a big fan of Buoux so if you want to spill the beans I'm all ears, mind you I'm not a gritstone climber either
I'm always interested in soft touch routes (guess I'm going to do Nihlistic whatsit at the weekend) and am a big fan of Buoux so if you want to spill the beans I'm all ears, mind you I'm not a gritstone climber either
In reply to Nik at work: there is some bouldering actually... i'm only going to be down there for one day that w/e anyway.
sloper left a message on my phone about this weekend actually - do you know any more about that?
sloper left a message on my phone about this weekend actually - do you know any more about that?
In reply to Tyler:
Enty'prise F7a(+) - Ulysses with 4 bolts, courtesy of our very own Enty.
Doutte a goutte F7b+/7c - sequential Uk 6b/c slab crux - a bit easier than Braille Trail on a cold day.
L'Homme Programme F8a - slab slab slab, reminded me of Angel's Share.
Enty'prise F7a(+) - Ulysses with 4 bolts, courtesy of our very own Enty.
Doutte a goutte F7b+/7c - sequential Uk 6b/c slab crux - a bit easier than Braille Trail on a cold day.
L'Homme Programme F8a - slab slab slab, reminded me of Angel's Share.
In reply to Jon Read: mmmm yes I remember Enty'prise...One of the best grit routes in the south of France!
In reply to Freeclimb: kk is never e7 for a start.you dont fall off e7 and land on your feet o.k.its also never 6c.keith would not be able too lead 6c i saw him a while ago he not a 6c climber.i take it you are talking about ob fat.if he tried to onsight this and expected to actually live i will eat my brand new red chilli boots.
In reply to Freeclimb: ha ha, who wrote that? could you show me how to climb 6c? pretty please...
In reply to the sheep who can't think for themselves:
Whooo, same old same old...
Same old incestuous hystericisms...."I know James...I saw him down the wall at least....so he's really great for doing the same old headpointing bullshit". Defend your friends instead of defending common sense and some sort of ethical standards. How predictable.
Nothing against him of course, whoever he is, just one example of many of a rotten system...
Thing is, I am *right* and most of you (the ones with half a brain) know it but you just won't admit it...
Whooo, same old same old...
Same old incestuous hystericisms...."I know James...I saw him down the wall at least....so he's really great for doing the same old headpointing bullshit". Defend your friends instead of defending common sense and some sort of ethical standards. How predictable.
Nothing against him of course, whoever he is, just one example of many of a rotten system...
Thing is, I am *right* and most of you (the ones with half a brain) know it but you just won't admit it...
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyetc:
Go fiend go! You tell those headpointers exactly what you think of them! We're right behind you 100%!
Go fiend go! You tell those headpointers exactly what you think of them! We're right behind you 100%!
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyetc:
Yeah, fiend. You are right.
But what's your point, exactly? That onsighting E7 is
harder than headpointing it? Like, yeah.
Or maybe your point is that James should be strung up for *only* headpointing E7 after a years climbing? Splutter.
Or perhaps, and here I think I'm on to something, that as we should all aspire to the onsight, James should be encouraged to onsight, and all this attention for a mere redpoint will draw him away from onsighting?
If this is the case, don't you see you'll get further with a bit of positivity, man? If you said, for example, "Godd effort James, learn your trade and you'll soon be able to onsight E7, and that's where it's at". Well, you'd probably soon have an E7 onsighter on your hands.
And, if you're soooo keen to promote onsighting, why don't you praise Keith for his onsight attempt.
What's with all the negative waves man? You're bringin me down.....
Yeah, fiend. You are right.
But what's your point, exactly? That onsighting E7 is
harder than headpointing it? Like, yeah.
Or maybe your point is that James should be strung up for *only* headpointing E7 after a years climbing? Splutter.
Or perhaps, and here I think I'm on to something, that as we should all aspire to the onsight, James should be encouraged to onsight, and all this attention for a mere redpoint will draw him away from onsighting?
If this is the case, don't you see you'll get further with a bit of positivity, man? If you said, for example, "Godd effort James, learn your trade and you'll soon be able to onsight E7, and that's where it's at". Well, you'd probably soon have an E7 onsighter on your hands.
And, if you're soooo keen to promote onsighting, why don't you praise Keith for his onsight attempt.
What's with all the negative waves man? You're bringin me down.....
In reply to midgets in hawaii:
The words of a wise tiny man indeed....
Negativity is like way uncool.
Nik (old but trying...)
The words of a wise tiny man indeed....
Negativity is like way uncool.
Nik (old but trying...)
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyetc:
"Half a brain" - What?! - How many people go out and onsight E7! - You either have to be Fuc*ing good like that Ben Heason bloke, or be slightly unhinged to risk ending your chances of doing more of the sport you love.
My point is, What is wrong with people headpointing? I dont do it myself, but I recognise it as a valid, and really quite sensible style of ascent.
Yeah, onsighting is better, more pure or "right", but whats the point of killing yourself or prehaps worse still, ending up in a wheelchair, for the sake of what is at the end of the day - just a bit of grit. Pretty insignifigant in the grand scheme of things.
> Thing is, I am *right* and most of you (the ones with half a brain) know it but you just won't admit it...
"Half a brain" - What?! - How many people go out and onsight E7! - You either have to be Fuc*ing good like that Ben Heason bloke, or be slightly unhinged to risk ending your chances of doing more of the sport you love.
My point is, What is wrong with people headpointing? I dont do it myself, but I recognise it as a valid, and really quite sensible style of ascent.
Yeah, onsighting is better, more pure or "right", but whats the point of killing yourself or prehaps worse still, ending up in a wheelchair, for the sake of what is at the end of the day - just a bit of grit. Pretty insignifigant in the grand scheme of things.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyetc:
Yay fiend - you go girl!
Yay fiend - you go girl!
In reply to Chris Cole:
However wrong fiend is with his E0 grading revolution and general dribble chit chat, he is in my opinion correct that headpointing of this form, is top roping. You can't change that, if it's ok to top rope an E7 it's ok to top rope anything at the top of your own personal grade. To further this, I'd say if you condone this form of top roping then I would also say any top roping is OK as long as it's done within the limits of your realistic climbing abuility and your not getting pulled up something you really can't climb.
There really isn't any difference, Stonnis Crack (S) at Black rocks was first climbed in this manner as was also High Neb Butress (VS) to name but a few of the easier routes. I personally as most of you know don't have a problem with top roping as long as you don't route hog, and don't use the rope for aid at all, and don't take repeated falls.
However wrong fiend is with his E0 grading revolution and general dribble chit chat, he is in my opinion correct that headpointing of this form, is top roping. You can't change that, if it's ok to top rope an E7 it's ok to top rope anything at the top of your own personal grade. To further this, I'd say if you condone this form of top roping then I would also say any top roping is OK as long as it's done within the limits of your realistic climbing abuility and your not getting pulled up something you really can't climb.
There really isn't any difference, Stonnis Crack (S) at Black rocks was first climbed in this manner as was also High Neb Butress (VS) to name but a few of the easier routes. I personally as most of you know don't have a problem with top roping as long as you don't route hog, and don't use the rope for aid at all, and don't take repeated falls.
In reply to Freeclimb: just don't top route for top roping... that is stupid. Top rope if you want, because you want to do a route that is at the edge of your ability, but then lead it. Now your argument does break down somewhat when you look at grades up to E4 and then grades over E4. Most top end routes have little or no gear, whereas most bottom end routes have gear. So, if you're climbing S and you want to push it to VS then you will be pretty damned safe in just going for the onsight. Whereas if you climb E6 and you want to climb E7 you could hurt yoruself quite badly going for the onsight. rant over. good morning too.
In reply to Woker:
I have no problem with people headpointing at any grade. However I think any route top-roped should be done with a view to leading it.
Obviously it is 'better' to onsight but at the end of the day it is a personal choice.
Nik (a happy combination of headpointer and on-sighter)
I have no problem with people headpointing at any grade. However I think any route top-roped should be done with a view to leading it.
Obviously it is 'better' to onsight but at the end of the day it is a personal choice.
Nik (a happy combination of headpointer and on-sighter)
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
I fear DIY has had an adverse affect on my climbing since those days (as has my increasing age). As sloper will gleefully vouch I can currently be found falling of V2's
I fear DIY has had an adverse affect on my climbing since those days (as has my increasing age). As sloper will gleefully vouch I can currently be found falling of V2's
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
nope.
nope.
In reply to Nik at work:
Have you really onsighted E8, Nik? Crikey! There are several profiles that have very high (E7+) onsight grades, perhaps they didn't notice the word change from 'best lead'?
Have you really onsighted E8, Nik? Crikey! There are several profiles that have very high (E7+) onsight grades, perhaps they didn't notice the word change from 'best lead'?
In reply to Jon Read:
Then again I'm totally rubbish at onsighting so find it hard to grasp how anything above E6 can be onsighted anyway...
Then again I'm totally rubbish at onsighting so find it hard to grasp how anything above E6 can be onsighted anyway...
In reply to Woker: The thing is when the routes you mention were put up they were the equlibrium and Dr Doolittle of their day. Top roping them before the first ascent is only the same as headpointing E9/E10 now.
In reply to Swirly:
What??? I'm not sure technology has advanced that much since small flexi-friends and sticky rubber Fires came out.
What??? I'm not sure technology has advanced that much since small flexi-friends and sticky rubber Fires came out.
In reply to Jon Read:
Hmmmm bit of a contentious one this.
To be honest I has just left it at E8 as that was what it was when it was best lead and I just hadn't changed it.
So to be totally honest about my "best onsight" ascent to prevent any rumour mongering etc here goes.
Four or five years ago I headpointed Fistfull of crystals and belayed a friend top-roping Doug at this time. About twelve months ago I soloed Doug. Strictly speaking not an on-sight I suppose as it shares a common start with fistful and I saw a friend top-roping doug. Flash maybe, I dunno. I had absolutely no recollection of any of the moves from my previous ascent of fistfull and no recollection of my friends attempt at doug, although of course I'd say that
Perhaps I should chaneg it to E7, right I'm going to go and do that now, see ya in a minute....
Of course now I struggle to climb stairs!!!
I imagine (although I don't know) that there are quite a few people (occasionaly) onsighting in the E7/8 range, but we just don't hear about it because people are out doing their own thing.
Hmmmm bit of a contentious one this.
To be honest I has just left it at E8 as that was what it was when it was best lead and I just hadn't changed it.
So to be totally honest about my "best onsight" ascent to prevent any rumour mongering etc here goes.
Four or five years ago I headpointed Fistfull of crystals and belayed a friend top-roping Doug at this time. About twelve months ago I soloed Doug. Strictly speaking not an on-sight I suppose as it shares a common start with fistful and I saw a friend top-roping doug. Flash maybe, I dunno. I had absolutely no recollection of any of the moves from my previous ascent of fistfull and no recollection of my friends attempt at doug, although of course I'd say that
Perhaps I should chaneg it to E7, right I'm going to go and do that now, see ya in a minute....
Of course now I struggle to climb stairs!!!
I imagine (although I don't know) that there are quite a few people (occasionaly) onsighting in the E7/8 range, but we just don't hear about it because people are out doing their own thing.
In reply to Nik at work:
Blimey: I'm impressed. Flashed if we're ethical, though from what I remember doug starts getting meaty once in the scoop and far away from Fistfull?
Blimey: I'm impressed. Flashed if we're ethical, though from what I remember doug starts getting meaty once in the scoop and far away from Fistfull?
In reply to Nik at work:
I think it should be best onsight/flash and therefore you would be quite right to put E8.
Still, well within your rights to leave it as E8 as judging by your modesty and climbing foryourself and no one else attitude, if you thought in your own mind it was as good as an onsight, then who is anyone else to argue?
I think it should be best onsight/flash and therefore you would be quite right to put E8.
Still, well within your rights to leave it as E8 as judging by your modesty and climbing foryourself and no one else attitude, if you thought in your own mind it was as good as an onsight, then who is anyone else to argue?
In reply to Jon Read:
from what I remember doug starts getting meaty once in the scoop and far away from Fistfull?
Dunno, just did it really quickly once commited so can't really remember anything specific (apart from lying down at the top). I did however sing the lucky song all the way up it and that always helps. Felt a very similar proposition to Ob Fat with a longer sequence of hard moves. (However Ob Fat was a definite headpoint totally wired ascent a few year previously so it is hard to compare)
from what I remember doug starts getting meaty once in the scoop and far away from Fistfull?
Dunno, just did it really quickly once commited so can't really remember anything specific (apart from lying down at the top). I did however sing the lucky song all the way up it and that always helps. Felt a very similar proposition to Ob Fat with a longer sequence of hard moves. (However Ob Fat was a definite headpoint totally wired ascent a few year previously so it is hard to compare)
In reply to Nik at work: bloody hell... am quite happy to have my technique criticised in future on the basis of this incredible admission of ability on your part!
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Cheers
I have said in the past that the profiles just give an indication of who a person is. As far as I am concerned whether my profile says E8 or E7 (or whatever) is irrelevant to who I am. Some people take it all a bit seriously so to save any hassle I'll just keep it at E7. Like you say everyone knows in their own mind what they have done and how they have done it. The rules of this game are very personal and my climbing is only of concern to me.
Cheers
I have said in the past that the profiles just give an indication of who a person is. As far as I am concerned whether my profile says E8 or E7 (or whatever) is irrelevant to who I am. Some people take it all a bit seriously so to save any hassle I'll just keep it at E7. Like you say everyone knows in their own mind what they have done and how they have done it. The rules of this game are very personal and my climbing is only of concern to me.
In reply to Simon Tyler:
It is possible to confuse technique with stupidity.
Slabs are my thing, steep stuff isn't.
Anyway like I said above I now have trouble climbing stairs...
...but I can plumb in a new bathroom.
It is possible to confuse technique with stupidity.
Slabs are my thing, steep stuff isn't.
Anyway like I said above I now have trouble climbing stairs...
...but I can plumb in a new bathroom.
In reply to Nik at work:
erm..could you explain how I take that step, albeit small (ha ha), from being E1 punter to E7/8 onsight/headpointer/whatever? it just seems like levitation in comparison.
good on you though, seriously.
erm..could you explain how I take that step, albeit small (ha ha), from being E1 punter to E7/8 onsight/headpointer/whatever? it just seems like levitation in comparison.
good on you though, seriously.
In reply to JonC:
I am not a good climber. There are a huge number of climbers that are much better than me. I will happily hold up my hand and say that I have failed on HVS. What I have done is rather than train my weaknesses (the traditional route to improvement) is to focus entirely on my strengths and be very selective in the routes I climb. I climb bold grit slabs because they suit me. This means I have no stamina, I lack the strength for bouldering, I cannot climb steep rock very well (if at all), I can't climb cracks and I certainly cannot sport climb. But I have fun.
I am not a good climber. There are a huge number of climbers that are much better than me. I will happily hold up my hand and say that I have failed on HVS. What I have done is rather than train my weaknesses (the traditional route to improvement) is to focus entirely on my strengths and be very selective in the routes I climb. I climb bold grit slabs because they suit me. This means I have no stamina, I lack the strength for bouldering, I cannot climb steep rock very well (if at all), I can't climb cracks and I certainly cannot sport climb. But I have fun.
In reply to Nik at work: i see... unfortunate that we didn't find many at brimham! i will look forward to getting well and truly sandbagged in march. i doubt sloper is very good at them either - being as fat as bernard manning with a reach to match can't make it any easier!
In reply to Simon Tyler:
Any ideas about where the plan is to go?
I am just about to start my intensive 'getting back into climbing' program [once my shoulder heals - nice to get an excuse in early]
Any ideas about where the plan is to go?
I am just about to start my intensive 'getting back into climbing' program [once my shoulder heals - nice to get an excuse in early]
In reply to Nik at work:
Dont need shoulders for slabs
Dont need shoulders for slabs
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Bugger
Bugger
In reply to Nik at work:
I like slabs too, only I'm chicken. Having said that, I did fall off the (easy) top move of the E3 version of Heartless Hair in a moment of madness.
I like slabs too, only I'm chicken. Having said that, I did fall off the (easy) top move of the E3 version of Heartless Hair in a moment of madness.
In reply to Nik at work: not sure. peak or yorkshire - not bothered...
he's up for the peak this weekend as well actually. i might make it on saturday (hangover permitting) but not sunday as well probably.
he's up for the peak this weekend as well actually. i might make it on saturday (hangover permitting) but not sunday as well probably.
In reply to JonC:
That must have been an exciting fall, the swing left never really appealed to me.
Very nice route, one of my favourites.
That must have been an exciting fall, the swing left never really appealed to me.
Very nice route, one of my favourites.
In reply to Simon Tyler:
Might get in touch then, I should be able to make it out for part of the weekend. Or is he secretly practising boulder problems that he can then 'flash' in our presence?
Might get in touch then, I should be able to make it out for part of the weekend. Or is he secretly practising boulder problems that he can then 'flash' in our presence?
In reply to Nik at work: seeing as his chick is going away, i suspect that he'll be preparing to "flash" at us whilst we're bouldering...
i'm going to check with london chums to see who is up for it. doubt i'd leave town till 8/9am on saturday - so with a speedy drive north could be in the peak late morning. wouldn't mind another visit to cratcliffe/rhs, but totally open to suggestions.
i'm going to check with london chums to see who is up for it. doubt i'd leave town till 8/9am on saturday - so with a speedy drive north could be in the peak late morning. wouldn't mind another visit to cratcliffe/rhs, but totally open to suggestions.
In reply to Nik at work:
Yes, HH has some lovely moves past the side-facing "flakes". I made those alright them lost it trying to move off one of the high crimps. I think I suddenly realised where I was and lost concentration. Ended up more or less standing at the bottom after a big swing. Quite a ride.
Yes, HH has some lovely moves past the side-facing "flakes". I made those alright them lost it trying to move off one of the high crimps. I think I suddenly realised where I was and lost concentration. Ended up more or less standing at the bottom after a big swing. Quite a ride.
In reply to Simon Tyler:
well I will probably only be able to make half a day anyway so could probably (if I'm allowed) meet you in the afternoon wherever..
Lets wait for Slope to raise his ugly mug on here and see where he's planning on going.
well I will probably only be able to make half a day anyway so could probably (if I'm allowed) meet you in the afternoon wherever..
Lets wait for Slope to raise his ugly mug on here and see where he's planning on going.
In reply to JonC:
Gutted, you'd totally done the route at that stage. In fact it must have taken quite a lot of effort to actually fall off at that stage ;O)
Next time...
Gutted, you'd totally done the route at that stage. In fact it must have taken quite a lot of effort to actually fall off at that stage ;O)
Next time...
In reply to unclesomebody:
Whereas if you climb E6 and you want to climb E7 you could hurt yoruself quite badly going for the onsight.
Which is why E7 strictly applies to the onsight presumably.
Still impressive any way you do it cleanly though, onsight or headpoint.
Whereas if you climb E6 and you want to climb E7 you could hurt yoruself quite badly going for the onsight.
Which is why E7 strictly applies to the onsight presumably.
Still impressive any way you do it cleanly though, onsight or headpoint.
In reply to Nik at work:
Definitely fair enough - congratulations - genuinely impressive!
Credit where credit (quite a lot) is due...
> I had absolutely no recollection of any of the moves from my previous ascent of fistfull and no recollection of my friends attempt at doug, although of course I'd say that
Definitely fair enough - congratulations - genuinely impressive!
Credit where credit (quite a lot) is due...
In reply to nik at home: i'm definately impressed - i had a sneaky look at Doug when i headpointed FFOC and couldn't see a bloody hold on the thing!
Right. As far as I can tell few people have bothered to actually reply to what I wrote, instead it's the usual ad hominem attacks and blind crowd following. But I might as well try...
In reply to Kenny Stocker:
Maybe a bit harsh, but having some ethical standards I fail to see why this tale should be regarded as impressive as Freeclimb makes out. And it's not about the level of climbing it's about the style.
In reply to Jon:
Thank you - just warming up for my return. However you sarcastically take the piss, I still don't see any sensible reply to issues I'm raising (here or on your bouldering thread).
In reply to Andy Robinson:
So anyone who has a different opinion from the crowd - and is prepared to argue it and justify it - is "tedious" and "pathetic". Perhaps you ought to do something else online instead of a viewing a discussion forum.
In reply to LaughingAt...:
Trying to encourage some sort of ethical awareness.
It counts, maybe - but doing the same old thing is nowhere near as impressive or celebration-worthy as FC is pretending.
In reply to AlexT:
Nice insults, nice lack of argument. For such a well established route, a true onsight (or fall trying) at E7 standard is what is of any worth.
Yes I am. Because I have some awareness of ethics and the climbing community and the ability to think about what is going on in it.
In reply to Bubba UKB :
F*ck you too you mindless retard. Can I just point out that it doesn't matter whether it's his 2nd or 2000th lead, it's still the same old sloppy ethical standards leading to false claims ("good E7") and a general pretence of doing something notable without actually progressing in real, general terms. Pretty sad that someone is already headpointing at such an early stage though....isn't anyone giving him encouragement to climb at a route's genuine standard of difficulty?? 2nd lead onsighting E5 I would be impressed and full of praise...
Credit where credit is due, debit where debit is due. If you want yes men, you won't bloody get that from me.
In reply to FH:
Oh, too hilarious FH. But if you care, and route I say I've done, I've done it onsight without a mat.
In reply to Mark:
It's a question of total f*cking hypocrisy, crowd following, the herd mentality and a refusal to actually give any ethical consideration in this case.
In reply to Kenny Stocker:
> bit harsh to slag someone off for wanting to share an experience, everyone should be able to freely recount their experiences whatever level they are climbing at.
Maybe a bit harsh, but having some ethical standards I fail to see why this tale should be regarded as impressive as Freeclimb makes out. And it's not about the level of climbing it's about the style.
In reply to Jon:
> Classic Fiend! How I've missed your insane rantings! I'll have to start a V-grade thread just so I can read more of your words of wisdom.
Thank you - just warming up for my return. However you sarcastically take the piss, I still don't see any sensible reply to issues I'm raising (here or on your bouldering thread).
In reply to Andy Robinson:
> Too right - I've certainly missed his tedious bobbins - anyone for a pathetic argument about how excellent the UK technical grade is for boulder problems??
So anyone who has a different opinion from the crowd - and is prepared to argue it and justify it - is "tedious" and "pathetic". Perhaps you ought to do something else online instead of a viewing a discussion forum.
In reply to LaughingAt...:
> What was the point of that post?
Trying to encourage some sort of ethical awareness.
> Headpointing is a style of ascent, you may not like it, it may not be the purest, but it certainly counts!
It counts, maybe - but doing the same old thing is nowhere near as impressive or celebration-worthy as FC is pretending.
In reply to AlexT:
> Big words, from such a lowly climber. You must be so disappointed with your own achievements, if only an onsight ,no mats, slow belayed ascent of an E7 is of any worth to you. You have a long way to go.
Nice insults, nice lack of argument. For such a well established route, a true onsight (or fall trying) at E7 standard is what is of any worth.
> You are in no such position to comment on the merits or ethics of this ascent.
Yes I am. Because I have some awareness of ethics and the climbing community and the ability to think about what is going on in it.
In reply to Bubba UKB :
> Fiend, you dick, can I just point out that firstly, this was James' second ever lead, and secondly that KK is notoriously hard and insecure for the short at the top.
F*ck you too you mindless retard. Can I just point out that it doesn't matter whether it's his 2nd or 2000th lead, it's still the same old sloppy ethical standards leading to false claims ("good E7") and a general pretence of doing something notable without actually progressing in real, general terms. Pretty sad that someone is already headpointing at such an early stage though....isn't anyone giving him encouragement to climb at a route's genuine standard of difficulty?? 2nd lead onsighting E5 I would be impressed and full of praise...
> Why's are some so keen to pull people down instead offering congratulations where they're due.
Credit where credit is due, debit where debit is due. If you want yes men, you won't bloody get that from me.
In reply to FH:
> Did you onsight your personal hardest grit route with out a mat?
Oh, too hilarious FH. But if you care, and route I say I've done, I've done it onsight without a mat.
In reply to Mark:
> It's strange that in this discussion the majority seem to be defending a toproped practice, whilst in a similar thread a few weeks ago someone was widely criticised for using the same technique (on an easier route). Is this a question of grades, or just a different group of people?
It's a question of total f*cking hypocrisy, crowd following, the herd mentality and a refusal to actually give any ethical consideration in this case.
Cont...
In reply to James:
Hey, that's cool, well done. I guess bouldering does a lot of good eh... Well done on eschewing walls too. Now if you can just focus more on proper climbing...
In reply to Nik at Work:
How so?? Because headpointing KK is really newsworthy?? Because James, being young, is exempt from having any ethical awareness?? Because falling onto a mat is really an E7 fall and worth raving about??
In reply to James again:
Well they don't seem to be teaching you any ethics. That's the issue - it's nothing to do with you, it's the whole system, it's FC and everyone, not giving a shit, following the same old headpointing party line.
In reply to Luisa Guiles:
Maybe but it's still issues that should be raised (and this is NOT about James it is about FC's entire post) instead of just blindly accepting the same old headpointing stuff.
In reply to Jimi:
Deserved my arse. You actually seem to agree with me so I have no idea what you're saying....except that you want to join in the crowd, yes??
In reply to midgets:
My point really is that Freeclimb should show more ethical awareness when he posts and that all these acheivements (climbing and falling) shouldn't be so exaggerate from what they actually are.
However, yours is the most interesting post I've seen. Yes there is a sub-point I'm making about trying to encourage onsighting and climbing at the real standard a grade indicates. And yes, you are right I'm doing the negative way, by arguing against headpoint acheivements. Maybe I will try positivity but given the general standard of response on this thread I doubt people would get something as subtle as "Good effort James, learn your trade and you'll soon be able to onsight E7, and that's where it's at". And as I say my main point was against FC's rave reporting.
In reply to Chris Cole :
Yes and that is genuinely bloody impressive and deserves a lot of respect. Credit where credit is due.
The problem with headpointing (and mats) is not what it is, it's the way it's treated as the norm, the way it's not questioned, and the way people claim routes (and falls) based on it.
In reply to Woker:
Nice bit of crowd following there - even tho you agree you've got to add the obligatory anti-Fiend insult. Even more impressive that you are decrying something very positive I attempted and that I still haven't seen a convincing refutation of.
In reply to uncle:
Why?? Why is headpointing better than top-roping....you're still not climbing the route at it's real standard of difficulty. You're just drawing an even more arbitrary line there.
Firstly people climb bold bottom-end - and middle-end - routes onsight. You could hurt yourself quite badly if you climb VS and go for Sunset Slab onsight, or climb E2 and go for Great Slab onsight. Secondly, it's up to you as an E6 leader to use your judgement and common sense (just like it is for all climbers below that level) about how dangerous an E7 is going to be and chose wisely accordingly.
And finally, I still don't understand why FC put "cheated" in his topic title and then mentions nothing further of it...
In reply to James:
> My first lead was on Sunday at the Roaches. I did Ascent of man E3 6a.
Hey, that's cool, well done. I guess bouldering does a lot of good eh... Well done on eschewing walls too. Now if you can just focus more on proper climbing...
In reply to Nik at Work:
> fiend you are way off the target on this one I'm afraid.
How so?? Because headpointing KK is really newsworthy?? Because James, being young, is exempt from having any ethical awareness?? Because falling onto a mat is really an E7 fall and worth raving about??
In reply to James again:
> The people I climb with are teaching me.
Well they don't seem to be teaching you any ethics. That's the issue - it's nothing to do with you, it's the whole system, it's FC and everyone, not giving a shit, following the same old headpointing party line.
In reply to Luisa Guiles:
> Thats a bit over the top dont you think?
Maybe but it's still issues that should be raised (and this is NOT about James it is about FC's entire post) instead of just blindly accepting the same old headpointing stuff.
In reply to Jimi:
> Well lots of people have given you a deserved roasting, so I won't.
Deserved my arse. You actually seem to agree with me so I have no idea what you're saying....except that you want to join in the crowd, yes??
In reply to midgets:
> But what's your point, exactly?
My point really is that Freeclimb should show more ethical awareness when he posts and that all these acheivements (climbing and falling) shouldn't be so exaggerate from what they actually are.
However, yours is the most interesting post I've seen. Yes there is a sub-point I'm making about trying to encourage onsighting and climbing at the real standard a grade indicates. And yes, you are right I'm doing the negative way, by arguing against headpoint acheivements. Maybe I will try positivity but given the general standard of response on this thread I doubt people would get something as subtle as "Good effort James, learn your trade and you'll soon be able to onsight E7, and that's where it's at". And as I say my main point was against FC's rave reporting.
In reply to Chris Cole :
> How many people go out and onsight E7! - You either have to be Fuc*ing good like that Ben Heason bloke
Yes and that is genuinely bloody impressive and deserves a lot of respect. Credit where credit is due.
> My point is, What is wrong with people headpointing? I dont do it myself, but I recognise it as a valid, and really quite sensible style of ascent.
The problem with headpointing (and mats) is not what it is, it's the way it's treated as the norm, the way it's not questioned, and the way people claim routes (and falls) based on it.
In reply to Woker:
> However wrong fiend is with his E0 grading revolution and general dribble chit chat, he is in my opinion correct that headpointing of this form, is top roping.
Nice bit of crowd following there - even tho you agree you've got to add the obligatory anti-Fiend insult. Even more impressive that you are decrying something very positive I attempted and that I still haven't seen a convincing refutation of.
In reply to uncle:
> just don't top route for top roping... that is stupid
Why?? Why is headpointing better than top-roping....you're still not climbing the route at it's real standard of difficulty. You're just drawing an even more arbitrary line there.
> Most top end routes have little or no gear, whereas most bottom end routes have gear. So, if you're climbing S and you want to push it to VS then you will be pretty damned safe in just going for the onsight. Whereas if you climb E6 and you want to climb E7 you could hurt yoruself quite badly going for the onsight.
Firstly people climb bold bottom-end - and middle-end - routes onsight. You could hurt yourself quite badly if you climb VS and go for Sunset Slab onsight, or climb E2 and go for Great Slab onsight. Secondly, it's up to you as an E6 leader to use your judgement and common sense (just like it is for all climbers below that level) about how dangerous an E7 is going to be and chose wisely accordingly.
And finally, I still don't understand why FC put "cheated" in his topic title and then mentions nothing further of it...
In reply to fiendmysteriouslymmmm:
well, an enormous post, and one which almost vindicates your point of view.
Where I think you're off the mark is suggesting that this thread was posted as "news", or as a rave report of an ascent.
I think the post was more in the spirit of "look what we did at the weekend", and that FC is simply impressed by James' rapid rise in standards. It *is* remarkable, so I think he's justified in this.
I don't think the post was ever intended as a "breaking news" sort of thing. Are good climbers beholding from talking about there weekends. If I post here saying how chuffed I am with an 8a I've done, is that friendly chat, or does the fact that it's slightly hard make it dispicable pimping?
Curiously,
the midget
well, an enormous post, and one which almost vindicates your point of view.
Where I think you're off the mark is suggesting that this thread was posted as "news", or as a rave report of an ascent.
I think the post was more in the spirit of "look what we did at the weekend", and that FC is simply impressed by James' rapid rise in standards. It *is* remarkable, so I think he's justified in this.
I don't think the post was ever intended as a "breaking news" sort of thing. Are good climbers beholding from talking about there weekends. If I post here saying how chuffed I am with an 8a I've done, is that friendly chat, or does the fact that it's slightly hard make it dispicable pimping?
Curiously,
the midget
In reply to fiendmysteriouslymmmm:
There is a difference between onsighting E2, and E7. If I want to onsight E2, there are plenty of safe ones to choose. I can excerise my judgement and common sense, realise I'm a coward, and choose these. At the higher grades, this is no longer an option. There are few safe E7s, on any rock type.
E2 leaders may choose to pre-practise the bolder ones, they may not. The same applies to E7 leaders, except there are more bold ones, so an E7 leader with the same "guts" will pre-practise more climbs...
>
>
> Firstly people climb bold bottom-end - and middle-end - routes onsight. You could hurt yourself quite badly if you climb VS and go for Sunset Slab onsight, or climb E2 and go for Great Slab onsight. Secondly, it's up to you as an E6 leader to use your judgement and common sense (just like it is for all climbers below that level) about how dangerous an E7 is going to be and chose wisely accordingly.
>
> Firstly people climb bold bottom-end - and middle-end - routes onsight. You could hurt yourself quite badly if you climb VS and go for Sunset Slab onsight, or climb E2 and go for Great Slab onsight. Secondly, it's up to you as an E6 leader to use your judgement and common sense (just like it is for all climbers below that level) about how dangerous an E7 is going to be and chose wisely accordingly.
There is a difference between onsighting E2, and E7. If I want to onsight E2, there are plenty of safe ones to choose. I can excerise my judgement and common sense, realise I'm a coward, and choose these. At the higher grades, this is no longer an option. There are few safe E7s, on any rock type.
E2 leaders may choose to pre-practise the bolder ones, they may not. The same applies to E7 leaders, except there are more bold ones, so an E7 leader with the same "guts" will pre-practise more climbs...
In reply to dickhead Fiend:
F*ck you too you mindless retard. Can I just point out that it doesn't matter whether it's his 2nd or 2000th lead, it's still the same old sloppy ethical standards leading to false claims
Who the hell do you think you are to call anyone else's ethical standards sloppy? You do what you want and leave other people alone to do what they want you bitchy little prick.
Pretty sad that someone is already headpointing at such an early stage though....
Why? Perhaps that's how he's chosen to climb routes? Oh sorry, he didn't ask you first, did he?
F*ck you too you mindless retard. Can I just point out that it doesn't matter whether it's his 2nd or 2000th lead, it's still the same old sloppy ethical standards leading to false claims
Who the hell do you think you are to call anyone else's ethical standards sloppy? You do what you want and leave other people alone to do what they want you bitchy little prick.
Pretty sad that someone is already headpointing at such an early stage though....
Why? Perhaps that's how he's chosen to climb routes? Oh sorry, he didn't ask you first, did he?
In reply to fiendmysteriouslymmmm:
Obviously I'm not going to dignify any of your arguments with a response, but thank you once again for a most entertaining rant.
The meaning of "cheated" in the title is pretty obvious - try thinking about it.
Obviously I'm not going to dignify any of your arguments with a response, but thank you once again for a most entertaining rant.
The meaning of "cheated" in the title is pretty obvious - try thinking about it.
> The problem with headpointing (and mats) is not what it is, it's the way it's treated as the norm, the way it's not questioned, and the way people claim routes (and falls) based on it.
First ascents are claimed like that, and have been for quite some time. He never said he did anything other than headpoint KK so whats the problem, better than breaking your back at the age of 17. So long as people are honest, and most are then everything is just fine.
Besides, anyone can go out to a cliff and do what the f*ck they want - stopping short of vandalism, no matter what the bored Rocktalk masses with nothing better to do than bitch about ethics, anti-toproping, students and groups... (no offense meant, but it is true - no matter what crap you say on here, I can still go and put a toprope down Heaven Crack, with the same rights as someone wanting to lead it.
As for "claiming falls" - you have finally lost it. Routes get claimed, falls get exagerated in the pub.
As for what 'cheated' means in the title of the post - can I push you off, or watch you jump of the top of KK on to a pad, and we can see if you 'cheat' injury.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslymmmm:
Nothing better to do than bitch about other peoples achievements. I can sense hints of jealousy.
Look at it this way: when you strat climbing there are generally other people you climb with, who you aspire to. You second their routes get used to higher grades which one day you aspire to do. Its a safe and traditional approach to take. In James' case he doesn't have people to do this with, and besides he has progressed beyond this stage, you can't get a feel for E7 without trying it first. I imagine there a very few people who have done there first ever E7 as an onsight flash without mats (unless it was some pathetic boulder problem mascarading as an E7).
You however have no idea. Its one thing defending the ethical stance of all climbing, as you are the bastion of all knowledge and truth, but until you start climbing without your crappy homemade mat, chalk and sticky rubber you still have no place to stand as you continue to make climbing easier for yourself. You might as well start top roping yourself.
Go out there, do some descent climbing, either hard or enjoyable, then come back and see if you have the same opinions.
You sound jealous, useless and bitter.
Nothing better to do than bitch about other peoples achievements. I can sense hints of jealousy.
Look at it this way: when you strat climbing there are generally other people you climb with, who you aspire to. You second their routes get used to higher grades which one day you aspire to do. Its a safe and traditional approach to take. In James' case he doesn't have people to do this with, and besides he has progressed beyond this stage, you can't get a feel for E7 without trying it first. I imagine there a very few people who have done there first ever E7 as an onsight flash without mats (unless it was some pathetic boulder problem mascarading as an E7).
You however have no idea. Its one thing defending the ethical stance of all climbing, as you are the bastion of all knowledge and truth, but until you start climbing without your crappy homemade mat, chalk and sticky rubber you still have no place to stand as you continue to make climbing easier for yourself. You might as well start top roping yourself.
Go out there, do some descent climbing, either hard or enjoyable, then come back and see if you have the same opinions.
You sound jealous, useless and bitter.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslymmmm:
Massive amounts of posting - excellent.
When I said 'off the mark' what I meant was that your posting came across as very (excessively) agressive. You have every right to be critical of the style of ascent as I know it doesn't agree with your personal ethics. I just felt that the 'anger' in your post was perhaps excessive. You seemed to want to put down the achievement which (regardless of its non-conformation with your own ethical viewpoint) you must consider a pretty impressive achievement. For someone to climb for a year and headpoint E7 as there second or third route is impressive (well it impresses me) and it would have been nice if you could have acknowledged that and perhaps tempered your rant a little?
However as you provide excellent entertainment I look forward to your (iminent?) return...
Massive amounts of posting - excellent.
When I said 'off the mark' what I meant was that your posting came across as very (excessively) agressive. You have every right to be critical of the style of ascent as I know it doesn't agree with your personal ethics. I just felt that the 'anger' in your post was perhaps excessive. You seemed to want to put down the achievement which (regardless of its non-conformation with your own ethical viewpoint) you must consider a pretty impressive achievement. For someone to climb for a year and headpoint E7 as there second or third route is impressive (well it impresses me) and it would have been nice if you could have acknowledged that and perhaps tempered your rant a little?
However as you provide excellent entertainment I look forward to your (iminent?) return...
In reply to StuartM:
Thanks, more good luck than good judgement I would imagine.
Isn't fistfull one of the best routes ever?
Thanks, more good luck than good judgement I would imagine.
Isn't fistfull one of the best routes ever?
In reply to Nik at work:
I agree Nik, that is a pretty astounding effort from you. Did you finish within the groove? Email me an account of the ascent if you would, we could perhaps stick it in the new guidebook.
I agree Nik, that is a pretty astounding effort from you. Did you finish within the groove? Email me an account of the ascent if you would, we could perhaps stick it in the new guidebook.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslymmmm:
Oh man, this is tooooo funny - good trolling fiend!
Can anyone remember the name of that young kid who came on here who eventually became *THE DARK ONE* who used to get on his soapbox about everything and castigate people for thinking differently to him (in very long-winded posts)???
Fiend, did you have a former life on cocktalk??
You're going to have to shout a lot more though if you want to be the new (improved??) Ken Wilson.
Oh man, this is tooooo funny - good trolling fiend!
Can anyone remember the name of that young kid who came on here who eventually became *THE DARK ONE* who used to get on his soapbox about everything and castigate people for thinking differently to him (in very long-winded posts)???
Fiend, did you have a former life on cocktalk??
You're going to have to shout a lot more though if you want to be the new (improved??) Ken Wilson.
In reply to AndiT:
Well an account won't be very interesting as it is a bit hazy but....
I climbed up so I was stood in the runnel that is the point at which the three routes diverge. From there I could stand and look and assess and contemplate, but not for too long or the impetus will disapear to be replaced with hesitation and legs that want to disco. From there it looked like there was a high rock up onto my right foot to start (above a little bulge if I remember correctly) and then it was going to be no stopping till the top. Couple of deep breaths, start singing and then throw my right up high and rock. From then I didn't really stop, just very carefully placing my feet on the small pebbles/smears and hands likewise. Keeping the flow going stright up the line of the groove singing all the way. From leaving the runnel to the top was probably less than thirty seconds on autopilot, just place your foot and trust it. Don't think, for gods sake don't think just keep moving and singing. Stood up at the top, turned round, sat down, laid back, closed my eyes and started breathing again.
"My name is Chico,
From Peurto Rico,
I earn a dollar a day,
I go see Lucy,
She make me juicy,
And take my dollar away."
Well an account won't be very interesting as it is a bit hazy but....
I climbed up so I was stood in the runnel that is the point at which the three routes diverge. From there I could stand and look and assess and contemplate, but not for too long or the impetus will disapear to be replaced with hesitation and legs that want to disco. From there it looked like there was a high rock up onto my right foot to start (above a little bulge if I remember correctly) and then it was going to be no stopping till the top. Couple of deep breaths, start singing and then throw my right up high and rock. From then I didn't really stop, just very carefully placing my feet on the small pebbles/smears and hands likewise. Keeping the flow going stright up the line of the groove singing all the way. From leaving the runnel to the top was probably less than thirty seconds on autopilot, just place your foot and trust it. Don't think, for gods sake don't think just keep moving and singing. Stood up at the top, turned round, sat down, laid back, closed my eyes and started breathing again.
"My name is Chico,
From Peurto Rico,
I earn a dollar a day,
I go see Lucy,
She make me juicy,
And take my dollar away."
In reply to Andy Robinson:
It was a good effort from young Fiend, although I think "you can't claim it as a proper fall if you land on a mat" was going a bit too far.
We need to get Fiend, JohnCockMysterously and big Ken together for an almighty ethics argument!
It was a good effort from young Fiend, although I think "you can't claim it as a proper fall if you land on a mat" was going a bit too far.
We need to get Fiend, JohnCockMysterously and big Ken together for an almighty ethics argument!
In reply to AndiT:
It's kind of:
Na-na-na-nahhh-n
Na-na-na-naahh-n
Na-na-na-na-na-na-nahh
Na-na-na-nahhh-n
Na-na-na-naahh-n
Na-na-na-na-na-na-nahh
Think of any Mexican cartoon character and the music you would associate with them and thats the tune.
This has absolutely no chance of making any sense to you
It's kind of:
Na-na-na-nahhh-n
Na-na-na-naahh-n
Na-na-na-na-na-na-nahh
Na-na-na-nahhh-n
Na-na-na-naahh-n
Na-na-na-na-na-na-nahh
Think of any Mexican cartoon character and the music you would associate with them and thats the tune.
This has absolutely no chance of making any sense to you
In reply to jon:
As covered by Speedy Gonzales?
As covered by Speedy Gonzales?
In reply to jon:
That would be a real humdinger - they'd certainly make me rethink the ethical quagmire that I inhabit.....
That would be a real humdinger - they'd certainly make me rethink the ethical quagmire that I inhabit.....
In reply to jon: Who gives a flying f*ck what Fiend thinks anyway? He's a punter who's never climbed anything hard in his life and never will. All this ethical stance bollocks is just a smoke screen for the fact that he has no technique and no balls to try hard routes himself.
In reply to better climber than fiend:
Very few people care what he thinks. His posts are very funny, as long as you don't take them seriously, don't you think?
Very few people care what he thinks. His posts are very funny, as long as you don't take them seriously, don't you think?
In reply to jon:
Humour tends to wear thin with constant repetition ...
> His posts are very funny, as long as you don't take them seriously, don't you think?
Humour tends to wear thin with constant repetition ...
In reply to jon:
No mention of E0, they were his funniest posts.
Strange though how he argues for change to the trad system to incorporate his genius idea yet can not accept V grades.
Progressive where it suits him, regressive where it doesn’t.
No mention of E0, they were his funniest posts.
Strange though how he argues for change to the trad system to incorporate his genius idea yet can not accept V grades.
Progressive where it suits him, regressive where it doesn’t.
In reply to FH:
I think it's more to do with what winds people up most.
> Progressive where it suits him, regressive where it doesn’t.
I think it's more to do with what winds people up most.
In reply to Freeclimb:
Does anyone watch the office? I want this guy's (Fiend) number so I can phone him, shout "Cock" and hang up!
Does anyone watch the office? I want this guy's (Fiend) number so I can phone him, shout "Cock" and hang up!
In reply to Andy Robinson:
>.. Can anyone remember the name of that young kid who came on here who eventually became *THE DARK ONE*
Was that Sharky (or some type of fish)?
Nowhere near as funny.
>.. Can anyone remember the name of that young kid who came on here who eventually became *THE DARK ONE*
Was that Sharky (or some type of fish)?
Nowhere near as funny.
In reply to:
Whoop, such anger and hostility. Join in the crowd, follow the herd, bash Fiend without thinking for a second about what he's writing. Come one, come all, don't think for yourselves just jump on the bandwagon.
Thx to midgets and Nik for your replies.
Bye, kiddies.
Whoop, such anger and hostility. Join in the crowd, follow the herd, bash Fiend without thinking for a second about what he's writing. Come one, come all, don't think for yourselves just jump on the bandwagon.
Thx to midgets and Nik for your replies.
Bye, kiddies.
In reply to fiendmysteriouslyoffforabit:
Ever think why everbody is "joining the crowd" and "following the herd"?
Is it because you're right, and talking a lot of sense?
Is it because we're all stupid and don't know any better?
Is it because none of us can't think for ourselves?
Is it because we're all jumping on the bandwagon?
Or is it because you're talking shit and we're sick of it?
I look forward to your well-reasoned, rational response.
Ever think why everbody is "joining the crowd" and "following the herd"?
Is it because you're right, and talking a lot of sense?
Is it because we're all stupid and don't know any better?
Is it because none of us can't think for ourselves?
Is it because we're all jumping on the bandwagon?
Or is it because you're talking shit and we're sick of it?
I look forward to your well-reasoned, rational response.
In reply to Freeclimb: this is starting to get tedious, all this back and forth. Can't we just sort it out once and for all... Fiend, i and all the others who disagree with you, challenge you to a fight. Although this may seem initially to be rather irrational, and it might actually be, it does solve the problem. At the end of the fight there will be a loser and a winner. Fighting is not the best or fairest way to solve anything, but it does solve it.
In reply to unclesomebody:
It's the American way!
Won't it be a bit unfair though, 50 against 1? Especially since the "1" is such a fat, useless weak punter.
> Fighting is not the best or fairest way to solve anything, but it does solve it.
It's the American way!
Won't it be a bit unfair though, 50 against 1? Especially since the "1" is such a fat, useless weak punter.
In reply to Freeclimb: no, it will be one on one. The others are there for support only. But you know how these things go... it will probablu just turn into as big brawl... WOO HOO! he he he
In reply to Freeclimb: or maybe we could have an onsight competition. If i can onsight a harder route, or anyone on this side of teh camp can onsight a harder route than fiend, then he loses. (this is such a great farce)
In reply to Freeclimb: The abbreviation of you are is not spelt your. Looks like i'm not the only idiot in here!
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