/ NEWS: VIDEO: Earl Crag Action - Jordan Buys and Pete Whittaker
"We could hardly bear to look as he clawed his way up the final few moves, facing a certain ground fall from 10 metres..."
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=52494
Great efforts, but think the terminology seems a bit muddled:
"few days of top rope inspection"
and "working the moves on abseil"
surely you inspect on abseils and work moves on top ropes, a few days is a lot of inspection...
Glad to see you have focused on the important bits.
> Great efforts, but think the terminology seems a bit muddled:
> "few days of top rope inspection"
> and "working the moves on abseil"
> surely you inspect on abseils and work moves on top ropes, a few days is a lot of inspection...
Quite easy to work moves on a single ab rope, especially with a Gri-gri - fairly essential if you're on your own.
An hour or two after work over a few days isn't alot, or do you know more?
Are boulder mats now considered trad protection?
> Are boulder mats now considered trad protection?
Well Done Pete and Jordan.
> Are boulder mats now considered trad protection?
Let us know what style you do it in when you go and try and repeat it...
> Let us know what style you do it in when you go and try and repeat it...
Ok so climbing harder means you can move the goals posts? Dont be so elitist.
ps Adam just been thinking about your comment. I wasnt having a go at these climbers or belittling their good achievement. I just asked an honest question.
> Ok so climbing harder means you can move the goals posts? Dont be so elitist.
I am not being elitist. It's all relative though. The pad is used as the gear is rubbish.
Ok so pads = trad gear in that terms.
I wonder what people would think about climbers putting a pad under a severe in the peak.
Also suggesting I am not able to ask questions until I attempt a route that I will never be talented or fit enough to try is being elitist, no question.
> I wonder what people would think about climbers putting a pad under a severe in the peak.
Only an idiot would give a f***. Wrong thread for this discussion, start a new one.
> Also suggesting I am not able to ask questions until I attempt a route that I will never be talented or fit enough to try is being elitist, no question.
Your initial post IMHO was a bit of a snipe. Hence my snipe back. Whatever. Happy climbing.
You read to much into a simple question but im sure climbing harder allows you to do that!
I would think
a) there is a person who has more care for his ankles than he does for an ethical ascent
b)some 'tard on ukc will probably have a field day on that.
> b)some 'tard on ukc will probably have a field day on that.
Very true. UKC is fully of people that forget ethics are personal and climbing has no set rules.
Good work. Looks like some awesome climbing on the E9, rather necky too.
> Ok so pads = trad gear in that terms.
bye the same logic a helmet is "trad gear".
Pads certainly would qualify as “Trad” in that respect.
And I have more respect for someone who attempts to minimise any chance of injury, in this non destructive way, harmless way, than someone who does not, out of a misplaced sense of tradition.
Read what Adam wrote. The pad is used cos the gear is rubbish.
"Better not do that - There's always the possibility that some asshole will be offended. Isn't there?"
My thoughts too.
I have no issue at all with the boulder mat use but I know people on UKC who do.
> My thoughts too.
> I have no issue at all with the boulder mat use but I know people on UKC who do.
Some climbers in the UK have issues with bouldering mat use, some of them even post on UKC and let their views be known.
Good effort on all counts.
Let me get this straight; you're more impressed that he doesn't like swearing than, say, the fact he can climb E9?
I use pads on low grade routes all the time. Suspect sandbags, dirty rock, to keep my climbing shoes clean before I start climbing, probably other reasons I've forgotten as well. I'm a keen low achiever with bunions and pads remove a lot of pain from my feet if I slip.
As for top-end highball claims, most of the climbers I know that do this seem honest enough about what they have done. How much are the media and forum posters to blame for any distortion of these ascents?
Anyway thats beside the point, well done to both guys for doing some awesome looking routes
Steve you are incorrigible. First McHaffie isn't awesome enough for you. ...and then you trot out the blanket... blame the media. If by media you mean UKClimbing.com say so, if you mean Climb or Climber says so.
What distortion? There's no distortion in this news report that Jack Geldard wrote: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=52494
If climbers want to use mats to pad out landings that's fine, if they don't that's fine too. It's a personal choice.
You will find that if a climber does a newsworthy first ascent and they use mats or not, they say so, and we report that. There is no distortion.
Now get back to reading your Daily Mail and don't forget to take your medication.
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells
> Pads certainly would qualify as “Trad” in that respect.
as long as your second brings them up afterwards, as with the rest of your pro ;)
Funny game trad climbing; we spend money, effort and time using gear to protect ourselves from possible falls, but pour scorn on someone who does the same but in a different way.
What do the trad police think of elbow and knee pads?
> . How much are the media and forum posters to blame for any distortion of these ascents?
Where the f**k did that come from.Please explain where I stated any of this.
You are another person who is finding things in a one sentence question that are not there. Be careful about what you are trying to pin on me.
I asked a question to start a debate not to have people put words in my mouth and attack me.
My personal view for all it is worth is already stated above if bothered to read it. ---> Climbing ethics are personal. There are no rules. If you are not damaging the rock or nature then do what you feel is right for you.
I havent used a boulder mat below a route but I wouldnt say never. Like a lot of climbers in the uk I dont have much talent and im a bit of a coward I just climb to enjoy it.
Surely there is also a case for using mats under very busy rotues to help with ground erosion?
I've heard him swear, mid fall on a route at Egerton.
It was strange to hear someone who really doesn't swear to subconsciously pull that one out of the bag in a moment of stress.
> I've heard him swear, mid fall on a route at Egerton.
> It was strange to hear someone who really doesn't swear to subconsciously pull that one out of the bag in a moment of stress.
He was about to break his leg though no?
> He was about to break his leg though no?
Curiously this was the fall before the one that broke his leg, this was from the lunge to the finishing jug - falling onto the 2 good cams (I thought they were good anyway). It was when he had his next go, still shaky from the fall, that he fluffed the unprotected lower arete and broke his leg.
He had it on video, ask him next time you see him.
At least now he's got this Earl business out the way it'll be safe to start answering his calls again :-).
Thanks for that splendid defence but as I'm incorrigable I'll stick to my views. I've got no problem with Jack's report.
On the other point, if I'm guilty of anything its regarding James in too much 'awe' in that I wasnt so surprised he'd done it.
You are also insightful to realise I need to take medication in order to read the Daily Mail.
> Thanks for that splendid defence but as I'm incorrigable I'll stick to my views. I've got no problem with Jack's report.
Well say so. Be specific when you say , 'media' and give examples. You like being precise, be precise.
When you say 'media' as a catch all you are criticising Jack and myself. We are a beacon of truth, honesty and accountability in a world of advertorials and hype please give us the respect we have earned and if you have a gripe with us, tell us.
And as regards McHaffie...... not every top climber in the UK transmits news of every bowel movement, or even more significant episodes.
And as for ranking and comparing every climbing achievement....how ghastly. There's a bragging dreadsite for that and it's called 8a.nu
Which media sources are full of advertorials and hype?.. feel free to be specific. I'm personally more circumspect, as those sharks can bite.
You've misread my attitude on precision. There is a time for precision and a time for rhetoric, politics and even fun.
You've lost me on bowel movements and ranking. I have seen some high rank bowel movements in my time; even have some photos, as evidence is important these days, but don't think I could post them here.
We use trad gear even when we may be good enough to climb without it. Mats can be seen as another form of trad gear. Use them or not as you see fit but don't pretend that everyone shares your own narrow-minded view of what trad is or should be.
As for the pads thing, I guess this is where the E-grade system for relatively low gritsone routes doesn't quite work. If adding a pad becomes common place to many of these dicey gritstone routes, I guess the grades may be revised accordingly, just as the advent of camming devices have made other routes less serious (Although I can't imagine a pad is going to affect the grade of a Severe too much!). Either way,I believe it is always a good thing to reduce the risk as much as possible, without stepping over the ethical line of damaging the environment to do so.
Royal Tunbridge Wells please.
-cuts down on erosion
-keeps my shoes clean
-we always have a little boulder warm up anyway so the pads always around.
-and yes, it looks after my ankles
BUT, for those really necky routes it does make it a little less hairy, so lowering the E grade; it doesn't bother me so much as I only bumble around the lower E grades anyway and it's rare I'm even in a position to use/need the pad; but for those higher grades where pro is at a real premium surely it makes a significant difference to the E grade.
Imagine a short grit E7 6b, say 8m with iffy pro; no pads you're gona break something; lots of pads and TR practice and you're halfway there!
Now I'm a good solid E1/2 leader, E3 on a good day; but there's E5's out there that I could practice and pad really well and get up; doesn't make me an E5 leader though!
Just my cup of tea; I do agree with the each to their own thing, as long as it's all reported cleanly though. :-)
Holey Moley this thread has got to go in the Hall of Fame. The most entertaining read on here for a while. Now wheres me bouncy castle.
Well done Pete and Jordan!
> Another example of UKC at its best.
Indeed again. Interesting how few significant accidents there's been on the hard grit first ascent / repeat side. Reports like this do make it sound incredibly marginal but I not aware of many high profile accidents - Neil Gresham on Meshuga is the only one that comes to mind.
You are another one who either didnt read my posts or are just putting words into my mouth. I asked a question. I didnt comment on the grade or the mental strain or try to take away the achievement so in future read before you post and have a go.
Didn't Wolfgang Gullich hurt himself falling off Master's Edge?
What does it matter if pads were used? The important thing is that Jordan and Pete have been open and honest about what was done. The grade is no doubt predicted for the trad style, and let's face it there's been no on sight E9 FAs so most E8/9/10/11 grades are an estimate for the route being led onsight.
It's good to see people being enthusiastic, as well as having good ethics.
False equation of 'bourgeois' to 'well off' I think.
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