In reply to john arran:
> (In reply to Craig Smith)
>
> I think you're mistaken if you think there was ever a widely agreed, unambiguous definition of 'onsight'
That is exactly it John, there never has been an agreed definition and the terminology itself has always been confusing. 25 years after these terms were coined there is still debate as to what an onsight is and what a flash is.
The full terminology is:
Onsight Flash (abbreviated to 'Onsight')
Beta Flash (abbreviated to 'Flash')
Those abbreviation cause misunderstanding and they always have.
A flash of light has a starting point and an end point, that describes climbing from the start of a route to the end of the route in one continuous movement (no climbing back down to the floor for starters, although climbing down from a move to a rest is OK).
An Onsight Flash means you climb the route from its start to its end and have no prior knowledge of the moves on the route or its gear. You turn up at the crag and you climb the route from the bottom to the top in one continuous push, placing gear or quickdraws on the bolts, without returning to the ground or falling off.
A Beta Flash means that you climb the route from its start to its end but you do have knowledge of the moves or the gear: you've seen someone on the route (or a video), or someone has told you about the moves or that crucial bit of gear.
However as I said earlier, some Onsight Flashes are better than others as are some Beta Flashes and this is where the devil is in the details comes in.
For example, I believe you can claim an onsight flash of a sport route if the quickdraws are in place but if you are reporting this you must state that the quickdraws where in place.
For most of us, whether we claim an onsight flash or a beta flash, or the shades of gray inbetween and within, it's a personal claim.
However, if your ascent is cutting edge and it is reported by the climbing media you must really give the media, and the media must ask for, the details. If that occurred there would be no misunderstanding and no threads like this that are common and just go round in circles.
I just want to pick up on what Naomi said above.
> I just don't think it is fair to say Jordan is sensationalising an ascent by claiming OS in this case as it was never intended to be 'news', just a fun vid for boreal.
It's on the news page so this is news, and this video is partly an advert for Boreal, as well as great viewing (these videos as I said above are really well done and I like many enjoy them).
M