UKC

First snows on snowdon this morning.

Surely that signals the start of the conditions thread!!

In reply to torquil:

You`ve missed that,somebody has already asked if Kinder Downfall is in.

In reply to deepstar:

And is it?

In reply to George Fisher:

A bit marginal I think.

In reply to deepstar:

I never knew that was in snowdonia!

In reply to torquil:

Does any one know if idwal stream in in nick yet? Lol

B

In reply to Cadairmanuk: here we go! Lol

In reply to torquil:

I have a good feeling about this winter :-D

[sits and waits with anticipation]

In reply to torquil: so here's how it often works: a cold snap in the middle of November leads to the usual suspects freezing (ideal stream, middle pitch of parsley fern etc). We all get really excited. Then it melts and we all think it's all over. Then it freezes again for six weeks from about the end of the first week in January. Now, I admit that this was not the case last winter but the four or five before that have followed the pattern. It is feeling quite chilly so my money is on a great winter to make up for bad summer. There is going to be loads of seepage; add some cold and hey presto Rjukan in Wales!!!!! Fingers crossed.

In reply to Charlie Burbridge:

Hope so

In reply to torquil: I have to say, it looks like the pattern may be repeating itself this year. First arctic blast on its way.

In reply to Charlie Burbridge: Keep an eye on http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Snowdon/forecasts/1085

In reply to Charlie Burbridge: my thoughts exactly! fingers crossed

In reply to torquil: The snow is back...

In reply to Mike Peacock: how much snow Mike

In reply to andyd1970: Not all that much. Snowdon massif looked quite wintry above 800m, but nothing to get very excited about - although it did prompt me to go and buy some new crampons

I have aTwitter feed set up called @welshwinter. This will hopefully give up to date feedback on current conditions. If people either use the hash tag #welshwinter or mention @welshwinter it will automatically re tweet.

It is also set up to feed from different blogs such as Andy Mountains and Baggy's blog.

If you have a blog that might help with reporting Welsh winter conditions let me know and I will set it up to tweet when a new report is blogged.

Thanks
Dave

In reply to davegs:

Excellent! Cheers Dave.

In reply to Gob_Stopper:

I'm off there on a club trip this weekend, on which for various novice-related reasons I'm the only person who's even worn crampons before... is there enough to mess up our plans or are the big scrambles still in summer condition? (weather looks bad enough on MWIS that we probably won't be able to climb, so it's walk or scramble)

I'd guess Tryfan and Crib Goch are low enough to be clear of any substantial build-up, but if anyone is out today and happens to see what the situation is, do say!

In reply to David Ponting: Very strong winds today on the Carneddau - high wind chill and so unpleasant that retreated to Valley very quickly. A dry afternoon today but more snow showers forecast for tomorrow and if these gusty winds continue I would not want to be on Crib Goch with novices. If you want to take them on a scramble I'd choose something like the S. ridge of Moel Siabod

In reply to David Ponting: bring your hobnails!

In reply to David Ponting: did crib goch today via north ridge reasonable covering of powder snow not ready for crampons yet but definatey more hands on than normal. I would not consider taking a novice across. Cornice build up at the top of parsley fern, is this a good omen for things to come

In reply to rodw: Don't jinx it!

In reply to torquil: more snow over night, lightly down to about 600m but looks properly snowy higher up. Looks like a fine winter scrambling day.

In reply to torquil: Just been up to Halfway station and it's looking rather wintery past clogwyn station! A sign of things to come?

In reply to torquil:

Plenty of snow on the Carneddau yesterday afternoon. (photo)

http://twitter.yfrog.com/0j5sjaj

In reply to torquil:

Wow, snowy Snowdon!


http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/snowdon-webcam

In reply to mountainmadness:
Went up Y Garn today, a lot more snow than I expected!!
It was a beautiful day... although the wind was very cold!!!
Lets hope its the start of a great winter!
some pics of today on my blog
sambradshaw.weebly.com

In reply to mountainmadness:

LOL

In reply to torquil:

Pictures from today on Baggy's Blog. First winter post of the season, hope he keeps it updated as best he can.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

It was, honest!

In reply to torquil:

Sorry I forgot the link

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.co.uk/

In reply to torquil: Went too the Carneddau today and went up Cwmglas Spur, was a brilliant day out but obviously the snow was powdery and so I had to take care, I had no need for crampons but the axe was out from around 800m upwards. Hopefully will get a little bit of a thaw and refreeze going over the next few weeks.
I'm far too excited for the routes to properly come into condition especially after last year

In reply to rodw: Thanks for the report (and yes, we saw and avoided that cornice) - we decided, on finding out that there were more in the party that had used axes and crampons, to take winter gear and a rope and go and have a look to see how far we could get - we got over the difficulties of Crib Goch before the weather closed in, but some of the ridge up Ddysgl was rather "interesting" in 20ft visibility, and we were walking on bearings from there to the standing stone at the top of the Miner's track.

In retrospect, we should have turned back before the exposed step at the end of Crib Goch, because after that one is committed to pushing on (as we did) or returning over a very exposed descent that we would probably have had to abseil. Oh well, no-one was injured and everyone had a great time and wants to do more - success, but I feel we might be a little more cautious next time.

To the people who mentioned us to the Warden - thanks for your concern, but we're all fine (we reported in so that no-one was sent looking for us)! We cut short the original plan of the Horseshoe when we realised how slow the going on the ridge was, and were below the snowline on the Miner's track by 3:30. Actually the most treacherous section was the top of the Pig/Miner's tracks, since so many people had been over it that it was sheet ice, whereas Ddysgl was fresh snow...

General condition report: On the western Glyders (Mynydd Perfedd etc.), 2-3" of unconsolidated snow above 750m (mainly on north slopes) on Sunday; Main Glyder ridge looked from as distance like it was about the same as the Snowdon massif, i.e. snow from about 700m, significant accumulation (6"?) from 900m up. North ridge of Y Garn looked like it was starting to cornice up on the Ogwen side.

In reply to David Ponting: Oh, and that should say 3:30pm - we did not have nor were in any real danger of an all-night epic...

In reply to torquil: Photos from Sunday morning. Went up Y Gribin and onto Snowdon Summit then along Crib Goch and down the North Ridge. Complete snow cover from Bwlch Saethau upwards. Privacy setting on album is set to 'public' so hopefully can be seen by all.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151514070269689.593475.508429688...

In reply to torquil: Anybody ventured up snowdon recently to see if any of the white stuff has survived in the ridges or gullies?

In reply to Webster:

Washed away Im afraid.

In reply to Joss: Is the ground free of ice and snow up near the summit of Snowdon? I'm looking at getting in a late season descent of Snowdon on the bike and am concerned about the ground conditions near the top.

In reply to chrisclimber_1986: I haven't been up there, but conditions very warm at ground level today and warmish and wet last couple of days, so Id venture a guess that the summit will have thawed entirely. Depends on the temperature the night before your descent as to whether there is much ice id have thought.

In reply to Gob_Stopper:

anyone know what's happened to Hightrek's snow report - web link seems to be down ?

In reply to chrisclimber_1986:
Is the ground free of ice and snow up near the summit of Snowdon? I'm looking at getting in a late season descent of Snowdon on the bike and am concerned about the ground conditions near the top.

Check out this for a snowy descent, ...

youtube.com/watch?v=P0GRlQOdvgs&

In reply to torquil: Forecast looks and sounds promising for next weekend! can anybody in the know tell me if its plausable that some of the ice routes in cwm idwal/devils kitchen will be climable by the weekend if it stays sub zero all week?

In reply to torquil:

Snows down to about 700m as of today. Crib Goch has a good covering and the temperature in the Pass is just tipping 2-3 degrees.
There may be some routes starting to come in in Cwm Cneifion. ANyone been over that way in the last few days?

In reply to Webster:

Devils Kitchen won't be formed by the weekend. Too soon. Likely the weekend after if temperatures stayed freezing.

In reply to monkeyboyraw: Full moon is tomorrow night.. it'd be a stunning night for a climb as it looks like it could be clear.

In reply to torquil:

Cwm Lloer an hour ago. Taken from Hiraethog,twenty miles away.

http://twitter.yfrog.com/4rckrbj

In reply to torquil:

and you might like to see what Yr Wyddfa- Snowdon- was looking like this -Wednesday- afternoon.
http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/2s8ky7j

In reply to torquil: I just popped up for a quick look at crib goch, hoping that reades route may be in for tomorrow but its as black as a black thing. Trinity Face was looking whiter but the top was in cloud so couldn't see it all.

In reply to torquil:

I did Crib Goch today which was proper frozen up, crampons essential. Trinity face has a reasonable covering, but none of the turf will be anything like frozen yet.
Will blog and post some pics up later.

In reply to Andy Mountains: Bristly Ridge was good today. Turf freezing nicely above about 800m, lots of rime everywhere and the snow had refrozen overnight. It was sunny too!

Off out to Cwm Cnefion tomorrow to have a look round, will report back tomorrow.

P.S. if anyone fancies coming along drop me an email davegsa@gmail.com hoping to be at Ogwen Cottage for 8.45

In reply to davegs: If conditions allow then I'm planning on an early start from the west midlands on Sunday. Would plan to be parking the car around 8am. More than happy to lead up to grade 3 or can be dragged up grade 4s. Probably going to be heading up alone or possibly with one other but any willing partners welcome.

In reply to torquil:

Some pics from yesterday of Crib Goch, Trinity Face & The Glyders
http://andymountains.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/crib-goch-wed-28th-nov-2012.htm...

(Is this the thread we are using or the other one?)

In reply to smuffy: I'm looking to get out Sunday. Have just sent an email to you.

Ben

In reply to torquil: just been out to Ogwen. Cwm Cneifion looks like it's in decent nick but didn't have time to go up there. Did Banana Gully with some friends and it was great. Nice n hard and none of this wading through deep snow bollox! Other gullies look ok. Top of A looks bare though. Mixed routes should be going down if it goes a tad colder tonight. No ice routes forming whatsoever.

In reply to McGuinness: Did you get a look at Clogwyn Ddu ?

In reply to mux:

"Cwm Cneifion looks like it's in decent nick but didn't have time to go up there"

In reply to Adam Long: Thanks

In reply to torquil:

I'm hoping to get out on some winter routes tomorrow. Does anyone know where's going to be in the best condition? I'm looking for a few grade I/II routes and maybe even a grade III route? As far as I'm aware the good options are:

Y Garn - Bannana gully / C gully
Cwm Cneifion - Hidden Gully / Curver / Tower Gully / Tower Slabs
Craig Lloer - Left & Right Y Gully / Broad Gully

Is Cwm Cneifion going to be the best bet? Seems there's quite a bit to go at but i would rather go where the conditions are best.

Cwm Lloer was great today, nice crisp neve and plenty of rime on the crags. Breakable crust on the summits. Photos as usual on the blog.

In reply to torquil:

Clogwyn y Ddysgl looked in good nick today, from the road anyhow...

Drove back via Ogwen, it wasn't all that cold until it got dark

Y Garn: http://i.imgur.com/DkBg4.jpg
Cwm Cneifion: http://i.imgur.com/QAuLe.jpg

In reply to Rob Johnson:

from the photos on your blog (it's hard to make out) but cwm cneifion doesnt look very snowy or icy? y garn looks to have a bit more but your lightbox plugin isnt working properly so i cant enlarge the photos. what did glyder fach/ y garn look like to you from pen yr ole wen? were the y gullys or broad gully in cwm lloer looking ok?

In reply to scrufff:

fair enough, y garn looks like its had quite a bit of snow and cwm cneifion looks ok from 800m+

In reply to George_Surf:

Broad Gully and Y Gully (right hand I think) were both climbed today. I just went up the east ridge but the snow conditions were great. The turf was solid first thing in the morning.

In reply to Mike Peacock: At least 3 parties climbed banana gully. Great neve probably because it catches the sun - More freeze/thaw over last couple of days. A couple of photos:-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgpsharedphotos/8230825102/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgpsharedphotos/8229753251/in/photostream/

Was up in Cwm Cneifion today. Pretty good going from 800m.

Looked up Hidden Gully and was iced up quite well. Decided to go up Easy Gully instead, snow and turf fairly well frozen. Good hard crust on top of the Glyderau.

Clogwyn Ddu was carrying fair bit of frost.

Generally routes that don't depend on snow and are above 800m should be fair game this weekend.

As usual send you tweets with the hashtag #welshwinter

In reply to torquil: Few photos from yesterday:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/sets/72157632137461284/with/823224...

Did anyone else see the sun dog and 22 degree halo?

In reply to Mike Peacock: I did fella but no shots of it!!! There's been some amazing light this last couple of days.

I'll post this is in here as I posted it last night in Rob's thread.

"Went up Tryfan North Ridge on Wed, was nice and crisp from the Chancellor and then walked round Lliwedd and down Y Gribin today. The turf was frozen as you neared the summit and also at the top Y Gribin. Snow on the south side of Lliwedd was really nice. Trinity Face looked niiiice. Back in Northampton this evening but may drive back over tomorrow evening as the temps were falling as I left and I wanted a nose in Cwm Cnieffen - Wed and Thur were spent with a girl who's not been scrambling before, let alone out in the snow and it wouldn't have been fair to drag her were I wanted to go."

In reply to torquil: Only uploaded the scenery shots so far but may give people some psyche to get over there and enjoy the conditions. Hope it works.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152313909900581.927096.875840580...

In reply to mrchewy: How deep is the snow? Was hoping that the main paths on the glyders and the carneddau will be compacted or at least fairly runnable..

Surprised how much was frozen on Moel Lefn and Ogof last night.. no snow there though but only 660m.

In reply to IainRUK: The ridge from Pen yr Ole Wen to Dafydd yesterday wasn't fun. Hard crust that you then sank through. If enough people have been across (they hadn't yesterday) a decent trail may well have been blazed, or further freeze thaw might have properly hardened the snow.

In reply to IainRUK: The snow certainly needed a crampon in places as it was bullet hard and last nights temps and yesterday's sun will have only made it worse/better. It's deep on the Glyders but having never ran much on mountain snow, I don't know what to say really. Not that many people had been up there by Wed evening.

In reply to Mike Peacock and Chewy: Thanks..

The plan is midnight start from either Aberglaslyn or Pont Caer Gors so I'll be on the Carneddau in the afternoon so was hoping that will have been walked in..

I'll have kahtoola crampons and an axe so should be OK if I need to be but was hoping to be without them as much as possible. Last time I found running in crampons destroyed my quads as it was too aggressive.

As the snow level is actually fairly high I'll only have snow for a few miles really so won't mind just walking. I was atcually thinking of returning to bwlch tryfan rather than down the W gully off Tryfan if it's too icey.. Ill see how it is looking.

Its a bit warmer today, 5 C in Nant at the moment.

Some pictures from yesterday's trip in to Cwm Cneifion and the Glyderau

http://bit.ly/SjPlvW

In reply to torquil:

I can confidently predict that it will all disappear by Monday as that is the next day that i am free

In reply to torquil: Looks likely unfortunately
http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Carnedd-Llewelyn/forecasts/1064

In reply to Mike Peacock: That's me doing Right-hand Y Gully in your photo's Cheers, I was wishing I'd had a camera.

In reply to IainRUK: I hope it all works out - best of luck Iain. West Gully off Tryfan looked pretty clean, just decent snow at the top on Wed and I did think about heading down it. Freeze thaw yesterday may have changed that.

May not help but there's more pics here http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152314132035581.927120.875840580...

In reply to torquil:
Does anyone know whether Hourglass Gully in Cwm Fynnon Lloer is complete? I saw the comments in the other thread that Broad Gully is fairly committing, so just wondering if Hourglass is an easier option.

In reply to torquil:
I went up crib goch last night ( left the car park around 7pmish)
THe first quarter of the ridge was dooable without crampons but then I had to put them on even though it was pretty bare as it was getting a bit slippy.
About half way- 2/3 of the way along the ridge there was a foot or two of snow in places possibly 3 where there were drifts.
Around 9:30pm it started snowing a bit and felt cold.
Didnt take my crampons off untill needed my snickers bar which was around 6/700 meters ( thats a rough guess as im not brilliant at working these things out.
It was +1 in the car park around midnight and raining but definately snowing higher up,there were a few little streams still flowing through the snow quite high up that crossed the pyg track.
Managed without using my axes just hobbled along with poles.

In reply to haydn: It was yesterday. It's less steep than Broad Gully, and isn't really a gully, more an open snow slope.

In reply to mrchewy: Those look like a sprinkling of fresh, unconsolidated snow on top of rock, is that what is there?

In reply to torquil:

Right, anyone fancy hooking up tomorrow to climb something?
I was supposed to be in Lakes for weekend, but car woes put a stop to that Can borrow a car tomorrow morning, and meet up 10am ish, can't get there any sooner than that.
Anyone interested? I have full rack & rope.
Message me through here or text/phone 07879 877763. I'll keep an eye on my emails.

In reply to torquil:

I've put some pictures on twitter... #welshwinter

Went up central trinity gully and right hand trinity gully. Central was a pleasant solo on good snow, in current conditions a nice grade 1. Right hand trinity was a lot more powdery, the lack of any ice and the turf not being very frozen meant it was quite a bit tougher. Climbed then all as a 3 with these being one of the party's 1st winter routes.

In reply to Andy Mountains: Got anything in mind Andy? Thinking of heading out tomorrow.

In reply to steve-grigg:

You'll be the team I was talking to in the Bryn this evening? Got to admit I'm surprised that Central is consolidated; I'd have expected powder on scree! Good effort.

In reply to torquil:

I was out on Y Garn today Banana gully was mint. Really good conditions. Frozen well from around the 750m mark. freezing again now in southern snowdonia tonight so something should be doable. No ice about and forget about idwal stream no ice formation what so ever. Plenty to have a play with high up. Enjoy and stay safe.

Ben

In reply to Simon4: All consolidated snow - really surprised myself to find it like that. Gutted I'm home to be honest.

In reply to torquil:

Webcams this morning make for grim viewing.

In reply to Andy Mountains: Why's that Andy? I'm on my phone and can't see them!

Mike

In reply to Andy Mountains: Snowdon and Oggie webcams look no different than they did yesterday? Whats your point?

In reply to Andy Say: yeah that's us, wrote the post while we were there. Parts of it were powdery but others were really good quality, it was a lot butter than some of the stuff I was doing in Scotland over last New Years

In reply to smuffy:

Really? Just looked pretty stripped was my point.

In reply to Andy Mountains: Didn't look that way on the South view of Snowdon on http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/snowdon-webcam (it is live but snow cover was low this morning).

In reply to sleavesley:

Good news! Can't wait to hear what folk have been up to today

In reply to torquil: Been in Cwm Lloer today, good snow from just above the Llyn. We did hourglass and it was nice all the way up. Were going to drop into the headwall and go up Col Gully after lunch but the wind picked up late morning and coupled with some snowfall it seemed pretty loaded as we dropped over the lip so we went back up and just traversed round and off. Generally the snow was pretty firm from about 700m. Other parties were on Broad Gully and Y Gully as well as a few coming up the loaded back slopes toward the cairn. A really good day and conditions excelled expectations! Co:

In reply to torquil:
Late start so plodded up to the Trinity Face. I went up Trinity LH, snow half frozen, sometimes surprisingly firm but sometimes disappearing up to the thighs. Hard work! Mates went up Central and it was a bit better. Nice wintry atmosphere up on the face and good to take the gear for a walk even of the rope and pro stayed in the sack! Didn't feel that cold, I guess just below freezing on the face. 2 degrees at Pen y Pass at 5.30pm.

In reply to torquil: went up into cwm cniefon 2day. Lots of ice and rime starting to plaster the rock faces above about 750m. Clogyn du looked very white and in great nick but on closet inspection the turf wasn't quite frozen enough on the first pitch of most routes. Soloed up a gully to the right of right hand branch which was unfrozen with some moves of technical grade 3, then about half way up the cliff headed onto the main face at the far right edge of the crag and found some amazing ice, neve and frozen turf! Climbed what would appear to be a new line with 2 short pitches of about grade III 3. Will post some photos when I get the chance 2 see if anybody knows if its been climbed before. In general the hard mixed lines on the crag looked in great shape for anybody who is capable of the grade.

In reply to steve-grigg: cwm lloer today, did great gully and Y gully right. Suprisingly consolidated snow. Really good neve on 2nd half and finish of Y gully right.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:

Both Broad Gully and Right Hand Y Gully on Cwm Lloer were great today.

In reply to mrchewy: finished the paddy buckley in 25.5 hrs. Only the second solo unsupported winter round.

Snow was very consolidated on snowdon, tryfan was very icey, but the carneddau was still a think crust over deep snow.. that killed me.

More snow fell last night, I was in quite a blizzard in the moelwyns.

In reply to IainRUK: A great achievement. Well done.

In reply to torquil: is anything being climbed yet? By which I mean stuff worth pitching as opposed to the easier gullys and plods.

In reply to IainRUK:
Excellent, congratulations.

In reply to IainRUK:

Wow! Awesome achievement Iain!!!

In reply to IainRUK:

Well done mate!

(from one of the two MRT lads who slowed you down on the Carneddau)

In reply to torquil: great achievement Ian.
Any sign of ice starting to form. He says clutching a file!

Anyone getting out tomorrow want to meet up and do a route/gully?

In reply to McGuinness: I'm up for it but the forecast doesn't look too good.

In reply to IainRUK:
Well done mate

In reply to IainRUK: Great effort, well done.

In reply to torquil:

Well done, must be some boy.

In reply to torquil: did left hand trinity, central trinity and right hand trinity yesterday. Central has good neve and is safe, left hand is a bit powdery but safe, right hand is loose and turf unfrozen - more like Scottish 4 in that a few of the steps are a bit precarious with what I would describe as loose scree axe hooking covered in power. Still easy 4 and doable. Take rock gear.

In reply to shingsowa: Ahh, I remember you guys, sorry I wasn't too chatty, that snow was starting to really p*ss me off by then..

Stunning afternoon though.

In reply to steveej: I was amazed how good the neve was on Snowdon. When I read routes had been done I didn't think they could be in until I actually saw the snow.

In reply to jezb1:

Was out today and climbed Cleft Gully on Clogwyn Du and Golden Girl Ali on the opposite side of the cwm. Both in really good condition.

Also climbed were Blenderhead, Travesty and Hidden Gully had a few ascents.

In reply to torquil: conditions on clogwyn du were fantastic today. Did hidden gully with the right hand finish (felt like grade 3 finishing past the chockstone, id take a rope and both axes if i was to do it again) Good ice and frozen turf throughout.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:
A friend of mine did hidden gully today, said it was awesome!!
Im wanting to head up nest weekend if anyone is up for a mooch up a gully or two!!
message me if anyone fancies partnering up for a reckie

In reply to davo77: Hey Davo. helps to get partners on here if you complete your profile a bit. People cant really see what level you want to climb at.

In reply to IainRUK:

Fantastic, Iain. As I wandered along above Cwm Ffynon Lloer in the unconsolidated snow from last night, I was thinking of you and hoping for your sake that you had more firm conditions.

What an achievement! Well done.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:
Cheers buddy i will update now, only just come on here so im getting into the knowhow of how its done.
cheers

In reply to torquil:

And congratulations from me to Iain R as well - I think you'll find *that* is the very definition of a big day out!

Inspiring stuff.

PP.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:
To be fair im pretty new at the ice & gully treking game but im trying to get out as much as possible when it gets in to condition, iv got a couple of mates who are a bit more knowledgable than me but they are younger & have no kids so there out all the time lol.
I wouldnt mind who i went with, im a safe person to be around & get stuck right in.

In reply to IainRUK: Never having run fells in my life I googled 'Paddy Buckley' to find out what this is all about. Wow , I can't imagine anyone wanting to run that distance over all those peaks in mid summer let alone in 25 hours in dark December under snow cover. What a fantastic achievment. It would be good to read a bit more about the trip, details and times.

In reply to steveej:
We saw someone (perhaps your party) on Trinity RH on Saturday afternoon. It looked messy. At least with Central and LH it was just a case of plodding/wading and not churning up the turf.

Another half day bimble today, this time to Cwm Lloer - thanks to the people who posted about decent conditions. We weren't disappointed for the time of year. Went up Y Gully RH and the snow was pretty firm underfoot (not bullet hard neve of course but no wading). LH looked good as well and there were a few other feasible mini gully lines on the upper half of the crag. The rimed up craglets just below the summit of Pen Yr Ole Wen provided good sport for a bit of mixed 'bouldering'. Wish we'd gone here on Saturday (and Clogwyn Ddu today... but for various reasons it didn't happent, next time!).

In reply to Misha:
I did Central Gully around midday. Snow was a bit soft/powdery, but consistent all the way up - a steady plod. Should be good id we get a few 'freeze-thaw' cycles.

In reply to IainRUK:

Incredible achievement! Well done, Iain. The snow on the Carneddau yesterday wasn't fit for walking let alone running. Congratulations.

In reply to torquil: Did Broad Gully,cwm lloer, Sunday,one tricky move over chockstone,snow firm low down, but soft and powder higher up.

In reply to torquil: is there any ice forming yet anywhere? Looking at heading up for the weekend.

In reply to torquil:

has it all gone today?

In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:I was up on Clogwyn Ddu on sunday There wasnt alot of useful ice around, just the odd runnel here and there. I would pick and choose apropriate mixed stuff if heading up. Make sure the turf is frozen though, some of the lower stuff wasnt what I would call climbable.

Weather looks promising though so finger x'd.

In reply to torquil:

UPDATE FROM CWM LLOER TODAY (MONDAY)

I was hoping to take a bimble up Y Garn today, but when I got into the valley I realised that it was unlikely, so I headed up into Cwm Lloer instead.

Snow was not that bad actually, plenty of it around and it was quite sheltered so holding reasonably well. Good to stay out of the wind too.

I headed up Broad Gully which was not as wet and slushy as I thought it would be - quite firm actually, but is starting to break up in the warmer weather. The tricky step low down was quite bare and running wet - not an easy move with one walking axe and certainly not the kind of move you would normally find on I/II.

I headed down Hourglass Gully which was in quite good condition - compact snow and plenty of it (more than it looked from distance).

Not sure how long the snow will last with the temperatures rising - there isn't much ice around and it did feel quite warm up there.

Good luck all.

In reply to torquil:

I was hoping to get on on Wednesday after my early lecture to somewhere which is accessible by public transport from Bangor but it sounds like stuff won't be in too good a shape by then...

I'm looking for:
grade I ideally, either gully or ridge.
accessible by public transport from Bangor (Bethesda and Llanberis are dead easy, but it would take me until 12o'clock to get to Pen Y Pass)
and most importantly, in some sort of vague condition!
I don't mind walking out in the dark, as long as I can get the actually route done in daylight.

Anyone got any suggestions, or should I just go for a walk?

Thanks
Dan

Any idea what the paths up Snowdon are currently like? A bumbly mate of mine who has no winter hardware is asking me if any of the routes (maybe Llanberis path?) would be "ok" tomorrow or Weds.

My gut feeling is to tell him not to bother but I figured I'd check just in case I'm completely wrong and the rain has melted away any snow/ice cover and everthing's black again...

In reply to Dan Lane: Don't forget that you can always try hitching; it's a reasonably effective way to get around once you're into places like Bethesda and Llanberis. Just walk to the edge of town so you're out of the centre.

In reply to Styx: a bit of ice up the top of snowdon. Would be quite slippy underfoot without some crampons or kahtoola type things.

Can anyone tell me how low the snow line was? I presume it was receding with the warmer temps, but by how much? (More for skis or board than climbing)
Thanks

In reply to torquil: has anyone ventured up to the black ladders area? Is central or pyramid gully in condition yet, or likely to be in condition by the weekend?

In reply to Jon Ratcliffe: On saturday, the snow line was 705m in the Snowdon range.

Waking up on Sunday, the snow line looked even lower as it had been falling overnight.

In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: there was a big thaw sunday night. Snow line was a lot higher when i left yesterday. There were ascents in Cwm Lloer yesterday though.

In reply to torquil:

Now then, I've got a couple of ideas about tomorrow...Can anyone tell me what sort of state the gullies on the Trinity Face and in Cwm Lloer are like?

Cheers
Dan

On snowdon today, hoping some of the mixed routes may have been in up high but not looking good so we plodded up central trinity and down end gully to check conditions but the turf was unfrozen right to the summit and it felt really warm- a surprising amount of snow around still though and more falling at the moment. Will be good if temps drop as predicted.

In reply to:

If I was off this week Id get on the mixed stuff, ie rocky ridges. North East Spur of y Garn (aka Garn East Ridge summer scramble,) Bristly Ridge, Dolmen Ridge, Clogwyn Y Person Arete would all make fantastic days in such conditions where snow and ice routes are poor/not in proper nick.

In reply to torquil: Complete novice to welsh winter here. Any advice on what's likely to be in on the weekend around IV / V?

In reply to torquil:

Anyone up for getting out tomorrow? (weather looks pretty harsh mind)

In reply to torquil:

I skied the carneddau today. Skis on at the bottom of foel fras. Excellent cover on the tops, even on the bouldery slopes of carnedd Llewelyn. Walking would have been a nightmare!

Descent north off foel fras a bit disappointing- clumps of grass poking through.

A stunning day.

In reply to torquil: Looking at heading to trinity face super early tomorrow morning.. anybody get up that high today?

In reply to JRae:

Same question. Mixed routes around V/VI. Am guessing Clogwyn Du maybe good for weekend? Not seen any recent photos but guessing there isn't enough snow to properly insulate the turf from a freeze over the next few days? Met office showing cold temps on the run up to the weekend (MWIS slightly warmer). Would be good not to have to travel to Scotland this weekend...

In reply to torquil:

Popped out this afternoon and found the conditions below at 3pm

Ogwen cottage 3'C went onto Y Garn and climbed bannana gully
Small lakes not fully frozen in the bowl very mild and the rain / snowfall last night was polystyrene balls with fresh snow over the older stuff. new snow 4 to 6 inches in places slight crust and lots of loose snow rolling down.
Dug a small pit to ground level this was not frozen, found no frozen turf anywhere.
descent by devils kitchen , lots of running water at all levels.
cold wind on the tops

In reply to torquil: Be good to hear what conditions were like today off anybody out climbing, I see that Travesty was done in the Glyders, good effort.
Hoping to climb tomorrow though forecast looks windy but gonna take a look.

In reply to sam benson: Cheers for that.

Lots of snow unconsolidated powder over rock up around Crib Goch - unfrozen turf pretty much everywhere until the very end of the day when thing were starting to freeze up, the path back to PYP was iced solid at 5pm. A beautiful day but it was hard and scary climbing conditions, better when the snow consolidates a bit or the ice builds up. North side of crib goch was totally hoared up and white.

In reply to Andy Mountains:

are you around sat/sunday for a big climb?

In reply to torquil:

I headed up to the Trinity Face today...

lots of fairly deep, powdery, sugary snow and pretty much no crust to speak of other than bits of partially frozen ice over rocks and the like.

I intended to do Central Trinity but got bored of swimming through waist deep powder extremely quickly. I can down and did End Gully. This was better but still not great! Needs a few days to consolidate but tonight's going to be cold...a lot of the slush had frozen on the Llanberis path as I walked off at 4:30/5pm.

In reply to torquil:
Pretty much ditto previous comments on conditions. Wading around in unconsolidated ball bearings on approach to hidden gully; spotted and snapped climbers on travesty - Tom Livingstone I presume ?! ... sorry couldn't resist Hidden gully was thin but interesting, hardening up and ice forming nearer the top. Definitely icing up as we descended off Y Garn.

In reply to sam benson: Thanks Sam good info.
Cheers,
Jon

In reply to torquil: I went to do RH Trinity today, the weather was full on. By the Pyg track/Miners track junction, we decided to abandon the climbing but pushed on for a walk to the summit. Sections of the track are now totally banked out with snow (soft) and there are inches and inches of it fallen today.

In reply to torquil:

Raining heavily at Pen y Pass 4.30pm, temp 4deg....

In reply to torquil: anyone fancy trying something up in cwm cneifion/clogwyn du tomorrow morning/early afternoon? Conditions aren't perfect but I'm sure something mixed will work...

In reply to torquil:

Report by my friend Carl today: Bristly Ridge, Glyders, Clogwyn Ddu: http://andymountains.blogspot.co.uk/

In reply to torquil:

Latest Baggy update isn't great reading:

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.co.uk/

In reply to torquil:

I see that Ian Parnell & his partner Jon Winter climbed Mankini (VI,7) on Clogwyn Ddu yesterday.

In reply to torquil:

wandered up to the bottom of y garn yesterday with the intention of doing either c gully or banana gully. the conditions were terrible and by about 11am the wind had really picked up and it was snowing a lot, there was a lot of spindrift whirling around the gullys. the snow was knee deep graupel, very soft and very loose. when we got to the bottom of banana gully small spindrift avalanches were running down it so we turned back and walked down, cold and wet!

In reply to jandyd05:

Hey,

Did you get any good photos?! Unfortunately neither me nor my partner brought our cameras, despite the moves from the belay being some of the most photogenic in North Wales!

Thanks, and hope you had a good day in the hills.

Tom

In reply to torquil: Been for a stroll in Ogwen today. Went up Seniors Ridge which was powdery and not so much fun. Very windy and on / off hail.

Air temp was quite warm, lots of melting occurring I think.

In reply to jezb1: Anyone else been out today? I drove through the pass this morning and this evening whilst commuting. Snow level looked to have a dropped a bit during the day, although some of the rock higher up looked blacker. :-/

In reply to torquil:

heading out tomorrow, most likely ogwen valley, i'm thinking cwm cneifion. looking for routes between I-III, is anything likely to be climbable, any recommendations? cheers, george

In reply to George_Surf: In that grade range I think you'll be struggling unless you go for a ridge route. Steeper mixed climbs maybe ok, but I suspect gully routes will be a wade fest, and likely not all turf will be frozen.

In reply to George_Surf:

Routes like Tower Rib, Cneifion Arete, Clogwyn y Person Arete, East Ridge of Y Garn... etc are probably the way to go. Steer clear of gullies I think as reports suggest turf is most definitely unfrozen, and they are loaded with a good foot or two of graupel (from what I have been told, not a first hand report unfortunately)
Incidentally I am looking for a partner for tomorrow, but won't be arriving at Ogwen (or wherever) until midday (due to parental responsibilities)

In reply to Andy Mountains: Cneifion arete was a long long way from being in today. Tower rib may have been ok, it was in the cloud but the rock near the summits was still hoared up. It was a warm day. Looking across to Y Garn when the cloud cleared occasionally would suggest that that would also be out of condition.

I imagine Clogwyn Ddu is still worth a shout.

In reply to jezb1: Has anyone been in Cwm Lloer today if so how are the Gullies looking mainly Broad Gully thinking of heading there in the morning, any info would be appreciated

Frank

In reply to jezb1:

The thing is Jez people will (understandably) be out climbing the lower grade 'winter' routes over the weekend no matter what conditions reports say. So if 'out of condition' ridges are climbed as opposed to gullies where turf & endangered plants can be harmed, then that is always going to be a good thing.
(That was kind of the point behind my comment)

In reply to Andy Mountains: Not wanting to sound grumpy but I'd rather people don't climb stuff when it's so far out of condition regardless of if it's rock or turf....

In reply to jezb1:
Its not a winter route anyway lol. Goes all year without axes.

In reply to Andy Mountains:

Keep it up Andy. Good Advice.

In reply to torquil:

im not going to do something for the sake of it, just wandering if anyone has seen/knows what's vaguely in at the moment. thought the gullies might be rubbish because of the bad snow, is there any chance it might freeze hard overnight? tower rib is an option, isn't the NE spur of y garn too low to be in?

OR does anyone have any suggestions apart from cwm cneifion? the snow on trinity will be terrible right? C gully on y garn?.....

In reply to George_Surf: it'll be a case of suck it and see tomorrow. Just be flexible. Was going to do seniors ridge last sun but it was as black as a black thing when we got to it, so we went into the cwm and found frozen turf, ice and rime all over hidden gully right hand. Cneifion arete had no rime on it then never mind now.
I think tomorrow will be a walk with the added bonus of a route if we find something thats in nick.

In reply to freakyboy777:

Did Broad Gully on Wednesday. A good day out but it couldn't be described as in good nick. Bit a swim in places but there were sections that were getting there, and places where something approaching front pointing was possible. The little step a third of the way up was frozen, but not that solid.

But, what can I day? A rare day out in winter for me so it was all good!!

In reply to torquil: andy I've sent you an email. I'm out solo around clogwyn du so give me a call if you want to hook up.

In reply to torquil: Very poor conditions today in the hills. I'll be astounded if anything is in tomorrow. Wet, slushy snow at all levels, and rain falling at all levels by the end of the day.

In reply to Gob_Stopper:

Thanks for the info. Where did you go today? Do you think higher winter mixed crags will still be white, from what you saw today? Cheers

In reply to Tom Livingstone: Hi Tom. Don't want to be the bringer of bad news but from what I've seen today and from the met office forecast I very much doubt anything will be white tomorrow. Might be able to salvage a route on one of the ridges but not sure much else will be in nick.
We did Bristly Ridge today. Conditions very poor really. I'd say above 800m the rock started to look whiter but still not very white, and below that it was completely stripped. Snow cover on slopes and tops was 1 - 2ft deep, but soft and slushy at all levels. And just as we topped out it started to rain so I'd imagine some of what has held on will have been washed away.
Forecast looks much better next week so fingers crossed.

In reply to Tom Livingstone: Re-reading that it sounds a bit negative! Might be worth the look but just my impression of things. Didn't get a look at Clogwyn Du or any of the other more reliable venues - possible something may have held on there by tomorrow?

In reply to Gob_Stopper:

Thanks for that. Suspicions have been confirmed - too warm! Virtually every forecast I've looked at showed a different result, so that's why I asked for 'eyes on the ground' beta. If I go out tomorrow I'll be expecting to turn around empty handed! Still, as you say, things should improve throughout next week.

In reply to Tom Livingstone: tom was there today .. have a pint .. relax .. and wait for monday ...
Left in the rain ..v warm but it needs a strip ..verglas city today .. not nice

Got up to Cwm Cneifion today before the weather turned to shit with very low vis then rain. Shame as it was a sunny blue sky when we entered the Cwm. Very soft snow on approach to the Tower area. We bumped into some friends who had a better day up there a few hours ahead of us before the clag came down. To our suprise they reported good snow in the headwall gullies (Left Corner and Easy gullies) No sub zero forecast till monday/tuesday with tuesday actually looking good.

Visited black ladders today with eastern gully in mind. Snow conditions were poor sinking up to the waist in slushy snow, we pulled the plug at the start on the gully as I couldn't have imagined the snow being better on the steeper part of the gully. Still any day in the hills is a good one.

Too late now I reckon but yesterday morning in Cwm Lloer was really good. We climbed Y Gully right hand, traversed over to the Headwall then came down again and climbed Hourglass. Snow was firmer than last weekend and there was good cover. Didn't fancy Y Left Hand though as it looks like it relies on frozen turf which there wasn't any sign of. By 3pm the clag was down, it was raining and the snow was melting. The short scramble near the bottom of the East ridge was running water under the snow. Quite a few folk on Hourglass and Broad Gullies; skiers on the Headwall and snowboarders on slopes above the lake. Yesterday certainly rewarded the early starters!

In reply to MarkDerby: I agree, I was also in cwm lloer early yesterday morning, ( did you park behind me, I was only car there at 6 30! Fell asleep for an hour) walked in at 7 30 and rewarded with some good conditions, I also did hourglass and y gully right then walked out about midday when it was getting busy and slushy , guessing now it may be wet and slushy but forecast is better for the coming week

In reply to climber34neil: raining and warm now but what snow survives should be nice when the next cold spell arrives sunday night

In reply to climber34neil:

Could well have been us Neil! Took a while to summon up the enthusiasm for the walk up to the cwm but glad we did.

In reply to MarkDerby: Cheers Mark i was probably one of the teams you saw on Broad Gully yesterday, conditions felt really good..

In reply to freakyboy777: Glad to hear you went for it. The roadside outlook wasn't great but the first glimpse of Craig Lloer put the smiles back on our faces.

In reply to torquil:

Got to say that Im saddened at the amount of people getting out on Clogwyn Du just because its rimed. I know some of the harder routes are glorified dry tool routes anyway but Ive just read Andy Mountains blog where someone got out yesterday on Torquing Shit admitting complete unconsolidation in the snow and turf, with no ice. Climbing 2 pitches in one of the most ecologically delicate and sensitive parts of the cliff.

Dont you guys read the white guide? Your effect on the flora and fauna up there is devastating, and publishing your climbs just encourages others to "have a go anyway, despite poor conditions".
Not only that its trashing routes for when the conditions do get right- potentially only a few days wait away.

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/north-wales-white-guide

Take a look at the guide,even better- go up there in summer to see the absolute mess your picks and crampons have made of Manx Wall etc.

In reply to Tony Sparks: Where does he admit the turf wasn't frozen? Couldn't see that on Andy's blog anywhere. If the turfs frozen and its properly rimed up I cant see the problem. Id imagine the turf was well frozen on clogwyn du yesterday. Turf was well frozen on 2nd half of bristly ridge.

In reply to Double Knee Bar:

I was out there yesterday morning. Walked up soft snow right up to Clogwyn Du to take a look at right hand before descending and climbed over Seniors, believe me the turf wasnt and isnt frozen yesterday or today.

In reply to Tony Sparks:
Fair enough if you were there, thought you were just going off what was on the blog post.

In reply to Tony Sparks:

Well said.

In reply to jezb1:

Guys, don't particularly disagree but this is a conditions thread not an ethics thread.

In reply to Gob_Stopper: It is a conditions thread but lately it does seem that people are unwilling to take a walk in, have a look for themselves and make the decision to climb or not on what they see on the ground that day.
Obviously it's easier for those who live in Wales to have a jaunt up the hill to look, to report back and I for one am grateful for threads like this when I have a 7hr round trip to negotiate. All this thread does tho, is tell me there might be a chance to climb when I get there - conditions still have to be analysed and just because I've driven a long way on my only day off doesn't mean I should be climbing when a route is marginal.
That's not an ethics comment - it's all about the conditions and protecting a resource that brings great pleasure to many.

In reply to Gob_Stopper: just to add to the debate. I dont think that guy was on talking shit ..

Because my mate was ..and he said there were no signs of anyone before him. He also said the turf was fine until the thaw hit ..at which point he abbed off. Beacause he like me agrees on looking after the ecology

In reply to Tony Sparks:

Good of you to promote the hard work done by a friend of mine on this topic. should be read by all.

But I don't think it says don't climb because you scratch the rock anywhere in it! but hey ho.

To add to the debate on 'Torquing Shit'. I did it yesterday and it was in nick; iced up nicely with rime. Turf frozen. I must admit that we saw no one else on it all day, and the snow had a good pack of wind slab on it. So I think our friend may have been mistaken about the route he was on. But hey ho. It was a great day out and a nice route too, well until it thawed and it began to rain, so we bailed quick sharp, as any conscientious winter warrior should do.

In reply to A Crook;
So was in nick to start but you bailed off when the turf thawed?? Hmm Ok,
Either you were on it or he was on it... Someones Torquing Shit!

In reply to Tony Sparks:
Yes its great when the route name fits the controversy.

No we bailed of when the ice thawed. The turf was still solid under its protective layer of snow.

In reply to Tony Sparks:
From what I can gather, you've read a blog about a solo which didn't happen, and combined that with your experience from a look at the start of RH gully, and have gone on to make 5 from 2+2. You're also saying:
The 'mess' (your opinion) that picks have made to Manx Wall and other routes.
'The devastating effect mixed climbers are having on the flora and fauna(!) on Clogwyn Du'.
.. Plus some minor side-line whining about 'glorified dry tool routes' and climbers not reading Si Panton's/CCW's excellent The White Guide.

In reality.. The snow was unconsolidated at the base of Clogwyn Du on Saturday (the one thing you do get correct) but luckily it was also a metre or more deep on the Pillar Chimney approach ramp in the lower reaches of the crag. The only unfrozen turf we encountered during the day was digging through the deep snow just beneath the little chimney/step on the approach ramp pitch to get to the belay at the base of Manx Wall - this didn't concern us because we weren't climbing on turf on the approach ramp - we were walking up deep steep snow.
I can promise you that on Manx Wall we didn't encounter a single piece of unfrozen turf because the climbing was either on good neve, softer snow (which was deep on any significant ledge), rock, or solidly frozen turf where it was exposed i.e. on the traverse left where Manx Wall joins El Mancho. I can't think of a single placement I made where I ripped a piece of soft turf out. That's actually quite unusual even for when the turf is exposed and well-frozen.
Had we encountered unfrozen turf on the route rest assured that I and the two people I was with do care enough not to want to damage - the turf (or the fauna, haha!), our own reputations, or other mixed climber's right to climb in the area. We're all experienced enough and I believe responsible enough to know when to call it. Don't need advice from someone who wasn't on the same part of cliff and who was on a completely different type of terrain - i.e. a low-angled snow covered gully/slope.

You're right to be concerned about climbing unfrozen routes. I too think it's an important issue and that we need to to reinforce good habits and try to create a culture where bad practice is reduced as much as possible. But before people cast aspersions on ukc you should be aware of the dynamics of the cliff. If you look at what you encountered on RH gully it illustrates how conditions often are in early season on Clogwyn Du - your route was an easy-angled gully/slope full of metres-deep thawing snow. In this sort of terrain the turf will always remain unfrozen for longer than on steep terrain where there's less sitting snow. As I said, on the easy-angled approach ramp to Manx Wall we found soft turf underneath the deep snow, so I'm not surprised you found your gully route out of condition. The turf on the cliff face however was frozen where it was exposed and, where it was buried, it was buried deeply enough that we climbed on snow not unfrozen buried turf. The second pitch of the route was totally plastered in hard neve - I've never climbed the top wall in that condition - by being able to kick steps in the neve rather than balance picks and front points on rock (but no gear for Dave!).

'The devastating effect mixed climbers are having on flora fauna'. ??? That sounds a bit hysterical to me - a more accurate statement would be: '..the potential for 'devastation' (in your words) that mixed climbers might have were they to climb exposed unfrozen turf...
..Unless you're aware of destruction of flora on Clogwyn Du that you want to bring to our attention?

I assume you've read the summary from the last CCW survey of Clogwyn Du which states found 'the condition of the ledge and crack system vegatation did not look to have been affected'. habitat? http://www.thebmc.co.uk/winter-climbing-conservation-impact

Of course that means we need to remain cautious of when and where we climb but dubious proclamations of damage, by people reading blogs and who weren't even on the piece of cliff that they're talking about, help nobody.

As for your other 'points' (whines?):
Don't we read the White Guide? - Everyone I winter climb with reads/has read it. it's an excellent resource and I think unique to Welsh winter climbing. As I type it's on the table next to my guidebook.

Fauna?! - which fauna are you referring to? The pair of Ravens looked to be having a good time breaking into climbers' packs to steal sweeties.

Glorified dry tooling routes? - a frustrating case of semantics which is unique (as far as I know) to the UK. The term 'dry tool' holds no emotional baggage anywhere else I know of except for the UK, where it seems to be used pejoratively by gully-bashing dinosaurs. Get over it snow-plodders, gully-bashers and ice-climbers, picks on rock is dry tooling as you point out, even if the rock is rimed. Part of 'mixed climbing' is therefore dry tooling if that's how you wish to frame it and it's forever been thus, dry tooling isn't a dirty word except to people who don't know how to climb in winter if it isn't a frozen watercourse or a snow-filled gully. The issue confuses punters in the UK - perhaps because they have trouble making the distinction between bolted dry-tooling on low level training crags and 'legitimate' mixed-climbing on mountain crags which, despite being a different game with a different name, still sometimes involves picks on rock instead of in ice or snow. Have you ever tried climbing any of the routes you dismiss as 'glorified dry tooling' to give any weight to your opinion?

In reply to dgp:
What on earth is that supposed to suggest? By showing a photo of a snowdon lily are you implying, in the words of the other poster, that the effect mixed climbers have had on the 'flora and fauna' of Clogwyn Du has been 'devastating'?

In reply to zero six: Maybe this was the thoughts behind the photo http://www.thebmc.co.uk/the-death-of-the-snowdon-lily

In reply to zero six:

Do you really have to be so aggresive with your comments ?.

You asked a question about the effect of winter climbing in thin conditions on the flora of Snowdonia. I was just reminding climbers (who may not be familiar with the situation) of the delicate arctic alpines that are precariously clinging on on some of the highest N facing crags. I was not suggesting anything.

In reply to torquil: blah blah blah. Rant rant rant. Just get out there and climb FFS. My word, its enough to want to give up climbing reading some of the comments on this thread.

In reply to zero six:

Guys, this is a winter conditions thread. Please move this ethics debate to a different forum.

In reply to dgp:
Fine but you could have just said that after your photo link, a photo minus any other comment can imply many things especially when read in the context of an 'is it/isn't it in condition?' debate.

In reply to torquil:

Try this thread wot made

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=530522

In reply to zero six:

I've reported abuse and requested all non-conditions related posts be removed.

In reply to ruaidh:
Abuse by who?

In reply to zero six:

Sorry your post was far too long to read so I genuinely couldnt finish it.. Yawn.
So I read your parties log book entries for Torquing Shit instead and got a much better description of the conditions on Saturday the 8th.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=147657

We got there in the end. To quote "Melty and horrible" only means one thing to me.

And just for the record- while you had a three paragraph rant on my one sentence that said 'glorified dry tooling routes', I'll clarify that Ive got nothing against dry tooling or 'pure rock winter pitches' (in fact I enjoy a go myself occasionally) the point was that those routes are less likely to be deeply vegetated and hence affected by climbing in poor conditions.

Adios, enjoy your winter all- thats my lot.

In reply to ruaidh: Actually the ethical debate is very important and should be discussed in the context of conditions as if a route is not properly frozen it is unethical and wrong to climb it. I would say well done to the party that abseiled off when they found the route they were on to not be in condition.

In reply to torquil: Christ on a bike! Things can warm up. I climbed "Tourquing Sh@t" on Saturday. All was fine on rock, snow and frozen, bloody turf. Weather, I believe, is a flux of localised atmospheric conditions. Well guess what? The flux fluxed in the Welsh mountains of all places! Rain on thin slabs has a habit of rapidly melting any vestiges of snow ice, rain rapidly turms frozen blobs of soil and vegetation. Guess what? 5m up the last pitch we backed off, we abbed out. I am not daft. I have climbed enough to understand winter ethics. I have climbed enough to understand that teetering up slabs without things frozen is asking for serious trouble from a staying alive point of view AND from my own mind set of ethics. Gosh, people like a good rant on a Sunday night.

In reply to zero six:
As a humble "snow plodder" and "gully basher" I had a great time on Saturday on Parsley Fern Gully along with at least 10 other climbers. Snow was beautiful neve, the little cornice at the the top was fun, sunshine wonderful in the morning and all the routes around were perfect as well.

3 other friends enjoyed RH Trinity as well. Simple pleasures.

Was raining a lot today but I'm sure the deep base won't have disappeared that quick and its due to get colder now.

In reply to Babika: That's good to hear. It was a great day on Saturday before mid-day. It's also good to see you're not attempting to publicly second-guess conditions on routes outside of your personal experience by using vague blog references and supposition. That seems to happen too much on this thread.

In reply to zero six:
People need to grow up on here, it's quite embarrassing!

All this bollox about destruction of plant life & turf, I'm sure any good competent climber/rambler will know right from wrong in all manner or climbing & conservation ethics!

This a Winter Climbing forum, if you lot wanna go argue find a primary school playground & go throw ya toys out of the pram there!
We personally don't want to to see it on here, climbing routes, good days out & pics would be awesome, It may give us newbies a bit of enthusiasm to actually go out & enjoy the wonderful countryside that's right on our doorstep rather than be wary of upsetting someone who's more concerned about plant life that's so deep it will never be touched beneath the snow!

Come on guys it's not Bitchbook!

In reply to torquil: this is north Wales were talking about. Conditions are fickle at best and change by the hour. It should be for the people on the ground to judge conditions at the time.

The whole turf argument is now veering on the ridiculous. I can understand certain routes need the turf for it to be climable. But damaging plant life, really? What about scratching up the rock at clogwyn du? There's nothing about that in the white guide. Complete double standards.

In reply to steveej: Just to clarify, the subject matter of the North Wales White Guide is - as the strap line: Reconciling Conservation and Recreation, suggests - focussed upon minimising the impact of winter climbing on rare plants.

It does not discuss the ethics of scratching summer rock climbs, although that is well covered in the introduction section of the recently published North Wales Winter Climbing guide.

In reply to Simon Panton: thanks for clarifying.

I'm not having a go at the white guide. The issue is about climber impact whether that be damaging scarce plant life or scratching rock.

There seems to be a lot of double standards on blogs and on here.

I got slagged off for climbing RH Trinity last weekend. The fact is that this route is not turf dependent to climb, and also is not within the shaded area of the white guide. Travesty was getting done at the same time, straight through a shaded area but that was deemed perfectly acceptable.

Fact is, people are all too easy to criticise others when they are not there on the ground that day.

In reply to steveej: Blimey, any conditions reports on here?

In reply to torquil:

Right, staying on topic (the rest of you please take your keyboard warrior skills onto another thread). Looking at the Oggi Cam it looks like gully lines above 700m are still full of snow after the weekends thaw and should now benefit from some consolidation as the temperatures drop.

Might head into Cwm Lloer or Y Garn tomorrow if anyone's keen.

In reply to davo77:

VERY,VERY WELL SAID!

In reply to smuffy: To a point.. but its no bad thing its been flagged up..

Cwm Idwal has special conservation status so I'd guess the powers that be could ban climbing/winter climbing, so its worth being extra vigilant to damage..

I was surprised to read winter routes were done last weekend, but when I was out I was also surprised how variable conditions and snow lines were around Snowdonia. There was certainly climbable snow high on Wyddfa last saturday. Yet in other places it was powder and slab, others a high snow line.. there must have been almost 1000ft differences in the snow line in places, from 500m on the North side of Hebog up to almost 800m on Siabod.

In reply to torquil: back to conditions.....

looking out the window there is still plenty of snow on snowdon, down to the top of cloggy. The glyders are looking more stripped but i imagine there's plenty of snow in the gullies and hopefully it should be turning to neve nicely....

I may have to pop out after work and check for sure though.

In reply to davo77:

Your comments just underline the ignorance out there ie some people (and it sounds as though this includes you) do not give a sh1t about rare plant life and the impact you can have if climbing in lean conditions - the whole point is that the Snowdon Lily for example does not grow in gullies under deep snow - take some time to read Elfyns article - you might understand why some of us care (no I,m not a plant hugger by the way but someone who has climbed snow and ice routes in Snowdonia well before you were born) and why it is important to highlight the issue under a winter conditions thread. I,m off to Ogwen - conditions look great !

In reply to zero six:
Thanks.
I did try to return it to a thread about actual Snowdonia Winter Conditions based on my actual Saturday experience as that's what I really want to read before I drive 150 miles....but hey ho....

In reply to davo77:


Disagree. I've been guilty of unexpectedly encountering/damaging turf myself in the past and I considered myself a 'good competent climber'. I'm sure others have as well if they are truthful. It's inevitably part of the learning game sometimes. So I guess the natural thing to do is to try and educate others from making the same mistakes.


And there lies the irony because quite often the turf can be unfrozen when burried under deep snow. I've been in thigh deep snow with unfrozen turf below.

In reply to Babika:
Indeed, let's all start again, shall we?

Discussion thread on ethics

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=530633&new=7131051#x7131051

In reply to ralphatkinson:

Looks like there's going to be some good conditions until Thurs then a decline during Friday.

In reply to Mr. Lee: Just heard from a mate: very good neve on Clogwyn y Garnedd this morning.

Been there today seen few folks up there but it wasnt very busy...seen one lad soiling Right Hand trinity i think and somebody on the top of Cave Gully. Snow was great from about 700 m and its going to be better tommorow

Trinity face was not as good as you might expect today. Snow was good in places - terrible in others, a crust on sugar - not nice. The turf generally wasn't frozen either, ok in places but nowhere near in others. The crags are black. Hopefully another cold night will improve things.

I started up a variant of snakebite as the snow was great at the start but backed off when it started collapsing under me and i found the turf unfrozen.

From what i saw nothing but LH and Central would have been in there today...

Today Davey & I headed out with the intention of heading high up into Cwm Cneifion and looking for something grade III ish to start off our winter season,.Possibly Tower Rib, or if we were feeling unusually brave Golden Girl Ali.
Although reports from the weekend were of a big thaw, I hoped that we could find something in condition after the colder temps last night. However on driving up the A5, Cwm Cneifion although certainly having some snow cover looked pretty black in the rocky areas including Clogwyn Ddu.
Looking over to the easy gully lines of Y Garn, we could see they looked complete, and Y Garn in general just looked more wintery! So, we ditched our rope & climbing hardware in Davey's lovely T5 camper, just took axes & crampons and headed up.
Snow cover starts around Llyn Clyd, although it is extremely soft and boggy. (as usual) We could see that Banana Gully was complete, so headed up, stopping where the gully narrows by the small crags on the left to don crampons. So to the snow conditions: the first half of the gully from this point was great if you stuck to the 3 or 4 sets of steps already kicked in the snow, rock hard in fact. However venturing a few feet to the right or left of these steps, the snow had a hard crust, but soft underneath resulting in wading knee deep. But the second half (approx top 70m) the snow was excellent neve right across the gully, and kicking steps and front pointing was possible.
We decended via A Gully, which was much the same story snow condition wise as Banana Gully. I then went to have a peek between the buttresses into C Gully, but could clearly see that there was not complete snow cover, and the 'step' was bare turf which would most certainly not have been frozen, so we backed off that.
On returning back to Ogwen carpark we spoke to a lad (blue camper van next to us, hello!) who had been up into Cwm Cneifion, and reported snow conditions high in the cwm were actually very good, and had done Hidden Gully were he said it was 'bomber neve all the way'.

Pics on blog if anyone is interested.

In reply to wspinacz32: I hope the lad was 'soloing' rather than your quoted 'soiling' RHT. I'm sure it was just a typing error but after all those other ecological messages........

In reply to Andy Mountains:

Thanks Andy. You've made my mind up to head from South Wales early tomorrow morning now. I'm thinking Cwm Lloer should have pretty good neve if that's what you experienced on Y Garn.

In reply to torquil:
Cwm Cneifion with the intention of some more glorified dry-tooling today but all rock black so no climbing for us. Cleft Gully is iced up and climbable, Clogwyn LH is fully iced but main pitch looks v.thin. The gullies and back wall are full of bomber neve. Turf (what's left) is well frozen.
'The Motherlode' explored and found to have the makings of potentially the best dry-tool crag around.

In reply to wspinacz32:

has Mr Clothier made a visit south of the border?

In reply to Andy Mountains:
I was the 2 "lad in a blue camper" (hi andy)
As andy said I headed up to cwm Cneifion to have a look.
As I headed up from Idwal I wasn't hopeful as the ground was very very wet with lots of running water.
As I entered the cwm the ground was still wet and the little snow patches where very soggy. as I went further into the cwm the snow got harder and harder until I arrived at the start of hidden gully where the snow was perfect neve!
The crags looked very black but ice was starting to form.
The gully's are defiantly the way to go at the moment because although the turf was starting to freeze it was only near the top!

In reply to zero six:

Hang on Sweetheart, you dissed the guy that gave a conditions report yesterday without him getting on the route lol.

In reply to dgp:
I do care about plants etc... and i always try to take great care when im out and about with my family also,, im always telling my daughter about the importance of where and where not to stand ie not on plants & anything that make our countryside great!!!
just dont like seeing arguments on here, its a climbing site after all.

I may as well talk to the mrs if i wanna argue lol

In reply to dgp:

Don't f*cking patronise me dgp, you dont even know me "Before i was born!" lol

In reply to davo77:


But as your profile says you were born 35 years ago he probably doesn't need to know you to work it out

In reply to stevez:

Might head into Cwm Lloer or Y Garn tomorrow if anyone's keen.

Hi mate,

what part of South Wales are you heading from?

Kyle

In reply to K.W.:

Newport. Leaving at 5am. Happy to give you a lift if you don't mind sharing petrol money?

In reply to zero six:


You don`t have to explain anything to anyone, so can all you bickering children do us all a favour and shut the F*** up !!

In reply to davebonner:

Umm?? Fecking hell how many conclusions do people on here jump to from reading vague posts!
Who said we didn't 'climb' up cneifion arete, wander up the gribin ridge, wander over to glyder fach, front point back down the back wall into cwm cneifion, and pootle around on the slopes at the start of Hidden G looking at potential lines on the walls to the right. i.e. we covered various terrain and crossed neve, ice and frozen turf. Can't believe I have to even explain that.
I picked the other guy up because he was making assumptions based on reading vague entries in posts and blogs. Welcome to his club.
'Sweetheart'? Bit weird.

In reply to stevez:

That would have been ideal but I've just been shot down by the misses! What a kick in the ****. Cheers anyway. Drop me an email if your heading up again sometime soon. More than happy to split costs.

Kyle.

In reply to K.W.:

Will do

This is going to be my last post on this years 'Snowdonia Winter Conditions' thread.
If anyone is interested I will still be running my blog 'Andy Mountains', and doing my best to report on Welsh Winter Conditions. Won't post a link on here, but you know where it is, and if you don't then Google it.

Any reports always welcome

In reply to Andy Mountains:

nah keep it going.. I used yours and your reports to keep me updated.. and unless we know you they won't check.. noone will read up a conditions thread to find the links as conditions are transient..

In reply to Andy Mountains: dont let a small bunch of fools cause you stress. Never seen so much bitching. Honestly, if this is how the season is going i'm just going to stay in and avoid the hand bags coming down the gullies.

In reply to torquil: I'm hoping to get out tomorrow and have a play in the snow I have only ice climbed in door once so just looking to get my crampons on and have fun. Where would the best place be to head to? Also if anyone wants to come along (or teach me to ice climb .)email me.

In reply to Andy Mountains: Hi Andy, dont get dishartened by a buch of tossers. Your posts and info are top drawer.

In reply to n-stacey:
I never contribute to this thread because I am too far away. But I read this conditions report avidly to get up to date and valuable information from Andy Mountains, Ian RUK etc.

Start the petition to bring back Andy Mountains!

In reply to torquil: I'll be in ogwen tomorrow. Depending on the clag I'll be heading for y garn or cwm cnefion. I'll be there at 5am. On a tight schedule gotta be back in Wrexham by 12.30. If its light enough I'll try n get some pictures, they say a thousand words. Will report back tomorrow.

In reply to torquil:

better get out tomorrow then if this is coming on thursday!

http://magicseaweed.com/North-Atlantic-Surf-Chart/2/#?chartType=PRATE&_...

its worth playing the animation through, quite an impressive storm heading this way i think...

In reply to Pay attention:


Yes, get him back. His on the ground reports are invaluable. Even I have bumped into him!

In reply to torquil:

anyone else been out today or yesterday? Is clogwyn y garnedd worth visiting tomorrow or should i keep to ogwen?

In reply to George_Surf:

I've been out on the Trinity face today. Great conditions in the gullies. Absolutely bomber neve all the way. The turf isn't fully frozen yet, but the less well insulated bits may well be by tomorrow as it never got about -2 degrees all day. Some of the turf was in fairly good condition today, just not all of it, but that's not too much of a problem in the gullies as there is still reasonable amount of snow which is now god neve.

was up in Cwm Lloer today - we did hourglass gully.
Although there wasn't loads of snow around (crags were black), the gullys were great - firm neve all the way up. It looked like Broad and y gully were ok, although there were a few chock stones showing through.
The top was a bit wind-blasted but the continuation of the ridge round to Carnedd Dafydd was again good neve - deffo glad of crampons (and a bit jealous of those ski/board tracks from a few days ago!)
i looked across at y garn - bananna gully looked to be present from the narrows - below that it looked a bit like a scree scramble, gullys A,B,C looked to be ok ... just an observation from accross the valley.

In reply to George_Surf:

Out today on Y Garn - holding more snow than most areas in Ogwen. Really good quality well consolidated snow ice. Gully A complete, B complete except for a couple of short patchy steps passable on turf, C looked more patchy and Banana complete. All with a line of good bucket steps. Should be OK tomorrow, but probably well melted out by weekend.

Chubbs

In reply to Andy Mountains: Hi Andy, thanks for all the conditions reports you have posted on here,i have found them very useful on many occasions,i will continue to follow your blog, as i have done since you started it. I can understand your frustration, don't let it get to you, just scroll past the rubbish, your contributions will be missed. Hope to bump into you on the hills one of these days. All the best mate.

In reply to timmyh:

Also out today in Cwm Lloer. Did Broad Gully, Y Gully Right Hand, and Y Gully Left Hand.

Bomber neve everywhere but no ice and the crags are rime free. Some of the steps on Y Gully Left Hand aren't complete but you can by pass them on the right side, but I'd say its a grade harder as a result.

Amazing day. Will post some pics up later.

In reply to stevez: No ice? Surprised, I was only up Foel Lus, so very low, but everything was frozen solid tonight, that was after dark... seemed like a harsh frost is happenning.. no idea how much snow is left as only just got back to North Wales.

In reply to Andy Mountains:

Dont give up on the thread - always the quickest way to know, who is or has been out to then go and check blogs for more detail if one wants.

In reply to Neil Anderson: Ross and Kate from Raw Adventures just blogged their day out.. some pics, presume today, of cwm lloer..

http://rawadventuresnorthwales.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/making-winter-mount...

In reply to IainRUK:

It was today, I was out in the area at more or less the same time. Nothing to add to what others have said - snowline is about 700m, good solid neve above and lots of black rock showing through.

The predicted temperature increase on Thursday will probably knacker things up nicely.

In reply to shingsowa:

Yes, forecast from Friday onwards sounds shite. Freezing levels above summits and rain forecast. Thursday still looks ok though looking at the met forecast. Hopefully freeze-thaw next week rather than thaw-thaw!

In reply to Mr. Lee: I was up on Clogwyn y Garnedd yesterday. Neve was mostly bomber. Occasional sections of sugary stuff but generally superb.

Stunning day; clear blue skies, very cold and not a drop of wind.

I've posted some pics in the V12 Outdoor news site gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/

In reply to torquil: c gully this morning on Y Garn. Photos to follow. Bomber neve ice about 1" thick on the bare sections some running water here. No fog or wind until 08.40 ish ice climbs around devils kitchen are NOT fully formed. The beginnings are the but they may well thaw depends on the next weeks freezing level. Turf! Dare I even mention turf! Was frozen in places and not in others so kept off it. When I left the cwm at 09.15 slight moisture, ice crystals in the air.
When I work out how to do the pics I'll put a link up

up central trinity today: as reported before, good solid neve all the way up - excellent!

In reply to torquil:

Great day yesterday on Snowdon. Started up Parsley Fern Gully which was full of snow, bomber Neve. Looked at Waterslide gully but it needs a few more days. Then dropped down to do Right Hand Trinity, excellent! Not wanting to stop went back for Ladies Gully which was even better! Back down miners track in the dark but amazing day.

Off topic, half day today so did Bovine, Hvs 5b near Many Gwynant. Sun and dry rock! North Wales at its best!

In reply to torquil:

The snow on Y Garn was excellent this afternoon. I went up A Gully (photos at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch/). Unfortunately it does sound like it will be getting warmer, wet and windy from Friday.

good conditions on snowdon today with all the main gullies getting ascents. The neve is still sugary in some places but generally good with the turf being miles better now than monday.

I should add we climbed Keeping Your End Up III 4 next to End Gully (details on the wiki but not in the guidebook - and unfortunately not the new route we thought it may be) Its a great route up an obvious line with good belays - little known but highly recommended.

In reply to torquil: photos hope this works
http://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152311115815024.925051.728530023&a...

In reply to torquil:

Theyre the best kind...shhhh

In reply to Sandstone Stickman: what were the conditions on ladies gully like, trying to decide which out of ladies and laddies gully to do tomorrow

Any1 seen any ice in idwal today.. Was hoping to bash up somthing tomorrow arv before it all melts.

In reply to Foxy:
laddies wasn't good this afternoon - rotten ice or a thin crust over sugary powder on quite a bit of it. It isn't nearly as good as ladies gully anyway tbh.

In reply to torquil:

Had a wander up into Cwm Cneifion and down Idwal today- conditions would have been superb for a few gullies, didnt have the time to do any routes but the temperatures were -4 at the car with all the smaller streams and water on the paths frozen (even down near the lake). Blue sky day that made you feel lucky to be out. The snow level was very stripped back compared to last saturday but in contrast the snow was rock solid. All the Garn gullies were all surprisingly complete and the Cneifion back wall gullies were all complete. The ground was frozen hard generally everywhere. Idwal stream even starting to freeze.

Sadly looks like were heading for the big melt/rain on Friday and well into the next few days, so this report will be of no use- UNLESS YOU GET OUT TONIGHT!

In reply to torquil: did B gully Y Garn this morning conditions excellent surprised how good the neve was but also surprised to note that the odd patch of turf was not at all frozen. Spoke to a guy who did C gully who said it was stripped in middle section. Views were terrific great day to be out but I think it was starting to thaw lower down oh dear!

In reply to torquil:

Did Parsley Fern Gully today, good snow from bottom to top and a great re-introduction to winter climbing for me. Craig y Rhaeadr was frozen (but a little thin maybe compared to its drawing in the old Welsh Winter Climbs book) and some nutcase was soloing some well-formed ice on the cliff to the left of Parsley Fern.

In reply to Joss:

Some pics of today

Y Garn in its winter coat:
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/10p25js.jpg[/IMG]

Cneifion gullies stripped back but still there:
[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/aoqccl.jpg[/IMG]

Also saw a rare Icecock in one of the streams:
[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/5d2ud3.jpg[/IMG]

In reply to Joss:

Having looked at your photo of the rare Icecock my mrs has now decided she would like to have a go!

In reply to Joss:

Was good advice - raining heavily in Ogwen friday morning. But hasn't it been a great few days !!

In reply to dgp: Rain has just eased off here in Brynrefail so I went outside and the cloud has partially cleared on Snowdon to reveal snow down to Cloggy. It has been raining very heavily all day so there must be significant amounts of snow high up.

Also just got an email from Chris Parkin saying that over in the Carneddau he can see snow down to below Llech Ddu. (He has a perfect view of the Ladders from his kitchen window)

In reply to Simon Panton: ooo is that a chink of light slipping through a bleak sky Mr P ?

but will it be chilly enough..

I dont care ..well for a fortnight anyway as I am off to Czech until new year

and there is loads of snow there :P

In reply to torquil:

Was up in Cwm Cneifion.....(Nameless Cwm,,,to the english!!) On Tues 11th Dec.Conditions in the upper part of the the cwm were brilliant,front pointing all the way. Ground rock hard and care had to be taken on paths down as rocks were covered with verglas.

In reply to Simon Panton:

Siabod was starting to look a bit white at midday (from the A5). Temperature has been at about +1 - +2C all day at home (300m ASL) so could be good for snow plodding all weekend.

In reply to richprideaux: Rain picked up again here, so presumably even more snow high up (couldn't see because cloud level dropped right down).

Another message from Mr Parkin a couple of hours back: "clearing more - ladders plastered"

In reply to Simon Panton: Then a slight thaw for a couple of days and colder on Tues.........

In reply to LakesWinter: ...and the perfect recipe for good conditions unfolds again!



(fingers crossed)

In reply to Simon Panton: Now I just need a day off to coincide with some conditions

In reply to smuffy:

To be honest fella, I don't blame her. It does look to be quite a lot bigger than yours!

In reply to torquil: low cloud base with some heavy winds at valley height (Ogwen) with some occasional heavy rain. Heading up Snowdon tmw to check conditions out, had the intention of doing Trinity but can't see anything being in decent nick. Will report back later on

In reply to Cornish boy: Paul not wanting to totally hijack the thread and go off topic, but to add some more humour, could you please put a link up to your picture from Oslo airport from earlier in the year.

In reply to torquil:

Just out of interest, how aggressive has the thaw been? I expected everything to have been washed away - but looking on the Oggie Base webcam I was surprised to see Y Garn still looking to contain a fair amount of Snow - Banana Gully looked complete, (let's not start an ethics thread on this!) So I suspect areas like Cwm Glas and maybe the trinity face still contain a large amount of snow, even if it is slushy?

Anyone who was brave/devoid of anything else to do today get out then an opinion would be greatly appreciated

In reply to bowls: was on Snowdon today, Trinity face has been stripped minus the last 150 metres from summit. Snow underfoot was really soft and the wind and rain was ridiculous.
The carneddau looked awesome with still lots of snow plastered everywhere especially the gulleys but I guess they won't be there for long.

In reply to bowls: I didn't go anywhere high yesterday (Cefn Du) but drove back via the Pass and Ogwen; Cwm Glas and Cwm Lloer were still full of snow. Cwm Clyd hadn't held on quite so well, but Banana Gully looked complete. Things might be ok if the freezing level comes back down.

In reply to Mike Peacock:
Thats good news, fingers crossed for a drop.

In reply to Joss: Wednesday looks like a rotter

In reply to torquil: Went over Crib Goch today in interesting conditions. Patchy soft snow on the way up for the last 250 metres and still a little icy on the pinnacles. Once you get to Garnedd Ugain(sp?)there is still lots of snow and from the finger-post there is still several feet depth going about 200 metres down the zigzags. Looking back at Trinity Face, when the cloud cleared briefly, the ramp up to the Spider still looked intact and, as far as I could see, both Central and left Hand were still complete.

In reply to torquil: So, I'm getting the feeling I've missed it all.
I finish work tomorrow so might be heading west to get out and about.
Is the best I can hope for a wet walk with some mushy snow or are there still some things out there.
Snowdon range or Carneddau?

In reply to JamButty: Looking at the forecast for Wednesday you might want to stay at home!

In reply to smuffy: I just bought the wales winter climbing guide. it arrived today. That means the season is definately over. It tends to happen when I buy a winter climbing guide. I was hoping for some winter action this weekend but it is looking poor.

In reply to The Grist: Keep the faith. Plenty of winter yet to come.

In reply to The Grist: Snow level must now be 850-900m or so, maybe lower.. Lliwedd looked snow free almost, the snowdon cone was still snow covered and cwm glas mawr.. but its generally been stripped right back..

Stunning day today though, worth a day out if anyone can get out, just had a quick run up to BRitannia mines on the miners. Stunning.

In reply to The Grist: oh god know! Your not supposed to buy that book in December January or February or it scares Jack Frost away. Surely this is common knowledge!

In reply to torquil:
Any updates please? Off there tomorrow. Any snow/ice left at all?

In reply to timbers: Only tiny patches on a few select summits. Quite warm and very, very wet.

In reply to McGuinness: and very very windy

In reply to WILLS:

Oh dear.

Thanks.

In reply to torquil: Got Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Snowdonia - is there anything in condition?

Are the gullies stripped?

Any tops still in condition, got the current Mrs B in tow so wanted some easy white stuff for her to practice cramponing, basic ice axe stuff etc.

Trying to avoid an expensive traverse of the gear shops in Betsy if I can.

Nath

In reply to Nath:

Nothing is in condition. Temperatures are above the summits and its raining on the summits. There's virtually no snow from what I've read. Don't bother.

In reply to Mr. Lee: Accomodation all paid for, so we will still be going - sounds like it will be water proofs and walking boots then.

UK weather is doing my friggin head in at the moment.

Nath

In reply to Nath:

I was up on the carneddau on Xmas day and there was the odd snow patch about but nothing to write home about. Cadair idris was white this morning which was encouraging but forecast is warm wet and windy.

In reply to torquil: watch the wind. Has been very strong in north wales last few days.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/mobile/mountainareadetail?area=Snowdonia&vi...

Check forecast here.
Yes it says wintery showers but the freezing levels are up n down over the next week

In reply to torquil: just after an up to date conditions report from anyone that lives round the area or has been up there last few days... Hoping to get up there this coming weekend to practice rope work for first trip to the alps this summer.

Looking at doing some ridges like clogwyn y Pearson or cnifien arete and ideally wanted to avoid winter conditions so we can just concentrate on the rope work side of things.

How low is the snow line? Crampons and ice axe still needed with the recent thaw in mind?

Thanks.

In reply to ralphio: you will not need crampons or axes. As it stands there is just the occasional patch of snow.

In reply to jezb1: thanks.

In reply to torquil: Cold Spell coming over this Friday/Weekend - fingers crossed for some white stuff.

Any news at the moment - assuming its bare at present?

Nath B

In reply to Nath:
yes....bare, grim, wet,...(not quite Chamonix at Christmas and New Year!) what a return.....

In reply to Nath:

Bare as a ... well wet summer Welsh hill. Was on Tryfan on Thursday last week, sodden, greasy, horrible. Some tiny patches of snow over the far side of the valley above the lake. Not even worth mentioning really.

In reply to torquil:
MWIS says -5 at 900m Sunday, freezing level 600-800m into next week & majority of forecasts suggest sustained cold. Bring it on!!!

In reply to Misha: sat n Sunday freezing levels look lower now around 200 metres. Hopefully it will stay like that for a few months

In reply to WILLS: Vague dusting of snow on Snowdon summit above around 800m. Nothing to write home about just yet!

In reply to torquil: just been up seniors ridge and down y gribin. It was extremely cold on the summit plateau and the ground/turf was frozen solid. That was of course above 900m but im sure of it remains dry and cold for another day or so it will be frozen at all levels ready for a dumping of snow

In reply to torquil: Its was snowing hard as I drove down the pass earlier, looking pretty white on the hills now and I was surprised how much ice was forming in the pass already.

In reply to torquil:
Up walking on the tops today loads of frozen turf around and snowing quite heavy by the time we left 3pm ish

In reply to torquil: Was on Tryfan East Face today. Turf completely frozen and significant hoar frost building high up. A couple of inches of snow fallen on Tryfan summit by 4pm.

In reply to Mr Fuller: I went for a stomp in the hills yesterday. Ground frozen solid everywhere then the snow swept in during the afternoon. Some pics in the V12 gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/

sunday 13

up north ridge - along crib goch - down cwm glas ridge.

verglas - settled snow - frozen earth - hoar frost - very cold when windy.

you decide!

In reply to libation: On a slightly related note, there is a free lecture on North Wales winter climbing taking place in Liverpool this Thursday (17th Jan).

More details here:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/01/14/north-wales-winter-climbing-lecture-a...

In reply to Simon Panton: The webcams are looking great this morning...

In reply to Mike Peacock: Was up on Moel Siabod this morning to see the sunrise. Lots of loose fluffy unconsolidated snow though ground frozen solid and icy in places.

In reply to Mike Peacock: After the school run this morning I raced round and snapped a few shots. Check them out in the V12 news site gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/

Clear blue skies and snowy mountains - puts a smile on my face every time!

In reply to Simon Panton:

Great pics Simon

In reply to Simon Panton: any hint of ice growing in the devils kitchen area? or is it just white with fresh snow?

In reply to Webster: Ice is forming - could be really good come the weekend.

Don't forget to tweet the conditions with the #welshwinter or @welshwinter

In reply to Simon Panton: why Mr P with these pictures you are spoiling us. My plans for Sunday may change it seems ..

New route from Baggy Richards

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.co.uk

Has anyone been out today and able to advise on conditions? Any gullies in? Much water ice formed?

In reply to DannyK:

No ice routes formed in Cwm Idwal !

In reply to torquil:

Went over Crib Coch and up to Snowdon today, so had a good change to look at the Trinity Face area. Looks like the harder mixed lines may be doable, but the main gullies in need of a thaw then refreeze to bring them into nick. Gullies could do with a bit more snow to fill up - Central Trinity looked thin over the chock stone, and in the narrows above.
Have fun.
Bryn

In reply to bryn: Anyone have any inkling about where water ice-routes might be forming? I assume that snow routes are nowhere near in.

In reply to DannyK:

Popped up myself, up and over the ridge above Cloggy. Few photos here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13995637@N08/sets/72157632535653793/

In reply to DannyK:
In Cwm Ffynnon LLoer and went up the headwall. Snow held firm. A party of three later descended our ascent route. Everything was covered in snow but the layer is thin. Some snow deeper where it is wind blown, as on the headwall. Saw a party of two on Hourglass. Broad Gully nowhere near complete so an ascent would prove very interesting. A few icicles forming in the cwm but the streams were running free.

In reply to mr mills:
Were they starting to form though? I suspect it will be marginal in Idwal this weekend, though the Stream will probably be in as it will have been sub-freezing for about a week by the weekend.

In reply to Misha:
Think the stream will take a little longer yet. Was in Idwal today and the bare bones of the ice routes are staring to form but it was much warmer than forecast today.