/ Wild Camping Snowdonia
You can pretty much camp anywhere you want, as long as you're out of sight.
People will tell you it's illegal, but it's not. Just find your self a nice scenic spot out of the wind.
There are two good options in the Carneddau that I would recommend. Wild camping is best when in remote setting IMHO.
Cwm Eigiau on the eastern flank of Carnedd Llewelyn is a good wild camping spot and gives you access to Craig yr Ysfa:
Cwm Llafar on the northern flank of Carnedd Dafydd is also great for wild camping and gives you access to Llech Ddu:
> You can pretty much camp anywhere you want, as long as you're out of sight.
> People will tell you it's illegal, but it's not.
It isn't illegal it's a civil matter. You won't be arrested!
Now I'm not advocating trespass, but as long as you are quiet and out of the way, there won't be a problem.
But you knew that already?
No it's not correct; wildcamping is illegal in England and Wales (with the exception of Dartmoor) but it's a civil offence not a criminal one. If you're asked to move on by the landowner, you are obliged to do so. Responsible wildcampers who arrive late, leave early and leave no trace, are generally tolerated provided they're camping above the fence line and well away from habitation.
Ps lets not start a huge debate about it.
How can it be illegal, when you are not breaking any law, please enlighten me on the law, and I'll eat my hat.
Because legally you should ask the permission of the landowner to camp there. Obviously this is usually impractical.
Yes, that's just a formality. Nobody stays on some one else's land, like farmers or business's.
We own our national parks, the Peak District frowns upon it. But I've never failed to get a good nights sleep.
It may be a formality, but I hope you're munching your hat ;-)
I'm just trying to pick the one that will digest the easiest ;-)
> Ps lets not start a huge debate about it.
What, start a huge debate on your perception on whether its legal or not?
From the Pen Y Pass car park on the Lamberis road, about half way there is a viewpoint with parking on both sides of the road. I forget the name of the boulder there and a few famous crags to look at either side of the pass. We camped behind some rocks on the stream side. That was what got me into climbing, figuring out where the trad climbers were on the crags. I thought the sport seemed to awesome to forget.
Lovely watching the sun go down through the valley toward Laberis!
> From the Pen Y Pass car park on the Lamberis road, about half way there is a viewpoint with parking on both sides of the road. I forget the name of the boulder there and a few famous crags to look at either side of the pass. We camped behind some rocks on the stream side. That was what got me into climbing, figuring out where the trad climbers were on the crags. I thought the sport seemed to awesome to forget.
> Lovely watching the sun go down through the valley toward Laberis!
That's the Cromlech Layby. It's a pretty popular spot. We've actually managed to get away with pitching a huge four man tent there but it's not recommended, most people use small single tents or even bivvy bags. I've heard that the farmer often gets up early to catch people out. Also, the sound of the stream made me need a piss all night. It's a lovely spot in good weather though.
Please could you try and post in the correct forum, it makes life easier for both users and moderators.
HILLTALK - A general forum for topics relating to hillwalking. Discuss walks you have been on, great scrambles, the best ridges, Munro-bagging and longer multi-day walks.
More Forum descriptions - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/forums.html
In the lakes, the National Trust (as a land owner) specify above 450m is fine, as long as you're also out of sight.
The general rule is camp on flat dry ground near a good water source, which is mainly near standing water, and there are amazing camping spots all over Snowdonia.
There are a few places you should avoid because they are either exposed to the elements or very visible from the road or local tourists, notably around Llanberis and Ogwen, but other than that you will never run out of new spots which are sheltered, deserted and beautiful.
Finally, when you go to the loo, make sure it's at least 50m away from the wayer (running or otherwise) - I teach 'carry out solids' because human waste is very damaging to the delicate soil flora, but others choose to bury. If you do this, make sure it's at least a foot down.
Leave nothing but footsteps, take nothing but memories.
Cwn Silyn is brilliant - not a hard walk in (about 40 mins from your car), not massively popular so there'll be no queues and there's a good spread of grades there.
> In the lakes, the National Trust (as a land owner) specify above 450m is fine, as long as you're also out of sight.
I am a tad sceptical that the National Trust in the Lakes state that you may camp 'anywhere out of sight' above 450m.
You have a link for that?
It's not an official policy, more like guidelines, in the spirit of the pirate code, if you catch my drift - i.e. they'll turn a blind eye as long as you're responsible, above 450m, leave no trace, etc.
They won't put it down in writing publicly because they don't want the lovely countryside littered with clueless chancers who will leave lots of trash and ruin it for those of use who naturally resonate at the same frequency as nature.
Thats a very bold statement to make if you cant actually back it up though?
Do you have some inside info or something.
> No it's not correct; wildcamping is illegal in England and Wales (with the exception of Dartmoor) but it's a civil offence not a criminal one.
Generally most areas are fine, just don't take the piss.. camp late leave early.. be discreet..
You should be responsible:
Arm yourself with the facts about the areas in which you want to stay -
Do your best to identify the landowner
Avoid areas which have legally protected status (there are two dozen of these statuses and all are mapped on the DEFRA website)
Leave no trace
Camp out of sight
Protect the environment, especially the water, from your waste (toilets at least 50m from water)
Don't publicise spots where you've wild-camped
As pointed out, wild camping is a trespass and a civil offence. So, if you are challenged by the landowner, then you are obliged to move on.
If you are on water board (or local water authority), MoD (Army/Navy/RAF) or Railway property - in these cases it is a CRIMINAL offense and you will be arrested and prosecuted if caught.
> If you are on water board (or local water authority), in these cases it is a CRIMINAL offense and you will be arrested and prosecuted if caught.
Now that is extremely interesting. What is the status of the Fells around Haweswater and Thirlmere, I would not be at all surprised if these belonged to United Utilities.
Do you have a reference for this? I can't find anything.
> Well that's news to the DNPA!
err why, it is legal on Dartmoor within (or outside, ie Holne) certain perameters.
DNPA website acknowledges this last time I looked.
Been here in Chamonix for the last 4 days and the signs make it clear that camping is only allowed where its allowed!! Pressure of visitor numbers on a really fragile environment I suppose.
> It's not an official policy, more like guidelines, in the spirit of the pirate code, if you catch my drift - i.e. they'll turn a blind eye as long as you're responsible, above 450m, leave no trace, etc.
> They won't put it down in writing publicly because they don't want the lovely countryside littered with clueless chancers who will leave lots of trash and ruin it for those of use who naturally resonate at the same frequency as nature.
Page 7, second item.
"There is a presumption against camping on non-recognised sites without permission. This presumption is waived in certain circumstances and areas, eg in the Lake District in upland areas above 450 metres out of sight of the public highway, to allow the wilderness experience to be enjoyed."
However, the National Trust only owns 1/4 of the Lake District. No idea how you find out if a particular section is owned by them or not, short of walking there.
That said, if you're above 450m, who exactly is going to come and do anything about it?
That means that even if the land is open access, if the military, water board (considered important to national security), registered nuclear sites (I excluded from my original list) or railway... choose to do bad things to you, they can probably try. One good example is Salisbury Plain, which is largely open access - but if the flags are flying then don't go in because they will shoot you first and ask questions later!
There are three main defences to either civil or criminal trespass and they are as follows:
1. Necessity: In order to assume the defence of necessity there must be an actual or reasonably perceived danger in relation to the course of action taken by the ‘trespasser’. A common example is if one person swings their car in order to avoid a crash and ends up on somebody else’s land. In theory they are trespassing as they are making a direct and unjustifiable interference with the land; they may also not have been in danger from the oncoming vehicle. However, there was certainly a perceived danger and so there will be no trespass. (However, it may be that if they caused damage there will be a different type of claim.)
In the context of rambling / camping, a reasonable defense would be to say the path was blocked / I got lost / it was the safe way out of the swamp / a storm blew in. There are plenty of examples in law of this as a reasonable defense where cases are dismissed out of hand.
2. Licence: If you invite somebody onto your land then you have given them an implied licence and they are not therefore a trespasser. There are certain times when you will have given someone permission to enter your land, but only a certain part of it, and for a certain reason. Therefore, in these cases a claim for trespass is still possible. For example, landowner says you can walk across field x but not field y, so if you go into field y then he can prosecute. Likewise, if he said you could camp in field 5 but not field 4 and you ignore him, again he can have you... so to speak.
3. Legal justification: A clear example of legal justification is when a police officer enters your land under an appropriate warrant. It is quite clear that certain emergency services should be allowed onto your land to carry out activities which are in the public good. Likewise, if a lost walker was having a heart attack and you went to help, it's unlikely the landowner would take you to court...
Rights of way and land law is the most complex area of law in which more than 200 statutes apply, if you ever suffer from insomnia, I heartily recommend buying a copy of The Blue Book - the trade (public rights of way department of your local council) bible on these matters.
When I last enquired about wild camping in Snowdonia it was definitely frowned upon.
The lakes tolerate it.
CRoW act is only applicable to walking, not camping or fires.
Trespass is civil offence, unless you refuse to leave when asked, in which case I think it becomes 'aggravated trespass' which is criminal.
Best option is do it subtly. If you do it right, it doesn't need to be legal, cos no one will know you did it!
Elsewhere on the site
Skiing Baffin’s couloirs has been on my to do list ever since I saw Andrew McLean and Brad Barlage’s inspirational... Read more
2014 has been a bumper year for climbing publications. Here's a few of the ones that we have either read, or ones that we... Read more
Atom Series: Synthetic insulated mid layers AR: All-Round. Significantly warmer and more protective than a fleece hoody, this... Read more
Hot Aches Productions premiered their latest film Redemption: The James Pearson Story at Kendal Mountain Festival on... Read more
Nikwax’s uncompromising environmental ethos has once again been recognised and rewarded by a trusted authority in... Read more