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Firstly my CV - Hell Crack (Stanage) and Embankment Route 2 (Millstone) off first time then got it second time around (although it's a bit of a pig).
Just over a week ago I was lucky enough to spend a glorious short weekend at Stanage and Millstone with a better climber (which gave me a chance to do some stuff as a second).
Stanage was fine with all the usual malarky on the unconquerables. Then on Sunday Millstone. Led Gimcrack with a little fall, then on to Bond Street as a second. Now I've done no jamming to talk of but have watched all the instructional videos.
I was really surprised at how easy the first part of Bond St was (a path) until that was a very short section by the small overlap - the crack then sort of thins and feels like you should layback - so thats where I failed - after a short rest got it - the moves in and out of the niche were really simple, as was the rest of the climb.
On to dexterity - again up to where it splits a path, then suddenly it gets all thin. After this I moved left and it was done.
Next time I am gonna tape my hands - as it was a bit painful.
I am now confident that I will be able to lead Bond St next time I am up - and I'm gonna give Dexterity a go.
Also have the Vice on my radar.
Can you the UKC collective give me a few recommendations for good quality grit jamming crack routes in the mainly VS (into HVS) to get my jamming up to speed.
No sandbags please (I want to learn, not burn)
Stevo, can't remember what the route was you told me about at Froggatt ?
Just over a week ago I was lucky enough to spend a glorious short weekend at Stanage and Millstone with a better climber (which gave me a chance to do some stuff as a second).
Stanage was fine with all the usual malarky on the unconquerables. Then on Sunday Millstone. Led Gimcrack with a little fall, then on to Bond Street as a second. Now I've done no jamming to talk of but have watched all the instructional videos.
I was really surprised at how easy the first part of Bond St was (a path) until that was a very short section by the small overlap - the crack then sort of thins and feels like you should layback - so thats where I failed - after a short rest got it - the moves in and out of the niche were really simple, as was the rest of the climb.
On to dexterity - again up to where it splits a path, then suddenly it gets all thin. After this I moved left and it was done.
Next time I am gonna tape my hands - as it was a bit painful.
I am now confident that I will be able to lead Bond St next time I am up - and I'm gonna give Dexterity a go.
Also have the Vice on my radar.
Can you the UKC collective give me a few recommendations for good quality grit jamming crack routes in the mainly VS (into HVS) to get my jamming up to speed.
No sandbags please (I want to learn, not burn)
Stevo, can't remember what the route was you told me about at Froggatt ?
In reply to Ciderslider:
Have you looked at The Vice? Or even put your hands in it? I suspect it may disappear from your radar when you do!
The Crank is a cracker. Oread at Gardoms is good, if a bit green. The File is the obvious suggestion. Nothing on it is as hard as the crux on Bond Street (or The Crank), but nothing on it is very easy either! Outlook Crack is short but a good bit of proper jamming. What's that limestone one at Ravensdale on the outside of the arch called? That's good.
Bond Street is a bit of an exception, generally HVS jamming cracks on grit are all total bastards. Either the wrong size, or steep, or both. Nowanda isn't too awkward, just hard.
Have you looked at The Vice? Or even put your hands in it? I suspect it may disappear from your radar when you do!
The Crank is a cracker. Oread at Gardoms is good, if a bit green. The File is the obvious suggestion. Nothing on it is as hard as the crux on Bond Street (or The Crank), but nothing on it is very easy either! Outlook Crack is short but a good bit of proper jamming. What's that limestone one at Ravensdale on the outside of the arch called? That's good.
Bond Street is a bit of an exception, generally HVS jamming cracks on grit are all total bastards. Either the wrong size, or steep, or both. Nowanda isn't too awkward, just hard.
In reply to victim of mathematics: Sorry not the Vice, I meant the File.
In reply to Ciderslider: Ah, also forgot Goliath's Groove (first go) although I don't think it's a jamming crack - just a thrutchy bastardfest.
In reply to Ciderslider:
Hawk's Nest Crack is it, at Froggatt, that's good, and pretty straightforward for VS.
Hawk's Nest Crack is it, at Froggatt, that's good, and pretty straightforward for VS.
In reply to Ciderslider: brown's crack at bamford, the crank (ace) at ramshaw, both 20 ft cracks at stanage and burbage north. The file, of course.
You don't really get better hand jams than that short section on bond street, if only it was longer.
You don't really get better hand jams than that short section on bond street, if only it was longer.
In reply to Ciderslider:
Broken Crack was the one I was thinking of
this may be of use
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=230
Broken Crack was the one I was thinking of
this may be of use
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=230
In reply to Ciderslider:
Zapple Left Hand (Yarncliffe) is a fine HVS jamming crack with good rests. The parent route is a bit of a pig, and often fallen off. There are some good looking VSs nearby, but I've not tried them (I think they've been cleaned recently).
If you fancy something esoteric, then Baker Street at Agden Rocher is as good a VS gritstone jamming crack as you'll find outside Millstone.
Zapple Left Hand (Yarncliffe) is a fine HVS jamming crack with good rests. The parent route is a bit of a pig, and often fallen off. There are some good looking VSs nearby, but I've not tried them (I think they've been cleaned recently).
If you fancy something esoteric, then Baker Street at Agden Rocher is as good a VS gritstone jamming crack as you'll find outside Millstone.
In reply to Ciderslider:
The Vice widens and becomes distinctly off-widthy towards the top. Taping up for it is a good idea imo. If that is on your radar, Sorrell's Sorrow at Curbar should be too.
The Vice widens and becomes distinctly off-widthy towards the top. Taping up for it is a good idea imo. If that is on your radar, Sorrell's Sorrow at Curbar should be too.
In reply to CurlyStevo: Cheers buddy
In reply to Ciderslider:
"I was really surprised at how easy the first part of Bond St was (a path) until that was a very short section by the small overlap - the crack then sort of thins and feels like you should layback - so thats where I failed - after a short rest got it "
I think the first section of bond street up to the first niche is pretty easy maybe mid grade VS at most? I definitely found the crux to be leaving the first niche, after that it felt more like upper VS climbing to me.
I didn't layback at all up to the second niche, jamming all the way, I think a lot of the jamming at VS 4c tends to be sinker bomber jams however I'm finding at HVS you tend to get more baggy or thin jams (or just a lot more sustained), this is probably where you need to do some work.
"I was really surprised at how easy the first part of Bond St was (a path) until that was a very short section by the small overlap - the crack then sort of thins and feels like you should layback - so thats where I failed - after a short rest got it "
I think the first section of bond street up to the first niche is pretty easy maybe mid grade VS at most? I definitely found the crux to be leaving the first niche, after that it felt more like upper VS climbing to me.
I didn't layback at all up to the second niche, jamming all the way, I think a lot of the jamming at VS 4c tends to be sinker bomber jams however I'm finding at HVS you tend to get more baggy or thin jams (or just a lot more sustained), this is probably where you need to do some work.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
That's what The File is a good test of. The jams are bomber all the way, but it will punish any weakness in your technique!
Great Crack at Duke's Quarry is maybe the best hand jamming crack in the Peak (now there's a big claim). It's just dry for about 5 minutes every decade. Zapple Left-Hand is like a shorter, slightly easier, version of it (and really only VS).
> I'm finding at HVS you tend to get more baggy or thin jams (or just a lot more sustained), this is probably where you need to do some work.
That's what The File is a good test of. The jams are bomber all the way, but it will punish any weakness in your technique!
Great Crack at Duke's Quarry is maybe the best hand jamming crack in the Peak (now there's a big claim). It's just dry for about 5 minutes every decade. Zapple Left-Hand is like a shorter, slightly easier, version of it (and really only VS).
In reply to victim of mathematics:
I thought I was the only one who thought that! I'm still taking the HVS tick though, it's one of very few
> (and really only VS)
I thought I was the only one who thought that! I'm still taking the HVS tick though, it's one of very few
In reply to Ciderslider: Terrazza Crack at Stanage is a good HVS thin hand crack
In reply to Ciderslider:
Count's Crack at Stanage
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=10022
Long time since I did it but I remember it seeming good value.
Count's Crack at Stanage
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=10022
Long time since I did it but I remember it seeming good value.
In reply to Hat Dude:
I've done it quite recently. Good call. :O)
Often a good choice for a busy day.
I've done it quite recently. Good call. :O)
Often a good choice for a busy day.
In reply to Ciderslider:
Fixed
At HVS you could try Eliminator at Stanage (after you've done Dexterity properly of course)
> [...]
> On to dexterity - again up to where it splits a path, then suddenly it gets all thin. After this I moved left and missed the hard bit out.
> [...]
> On to dexterity - again up to where it splits a path, then suddenly it gets all thin. After this I moved left and missed the hard bit out.
> [...]
Fixed
At HVS you could try Eliminator at Stanage (after you've done Dexterity properly of course)
In reply to 999thAndy:
I think I used one jam on Eliminator and I love jamming!
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
> [...]
>
> Fixed
>
> At HVS you could try Eliminator at Stanage (after you've done Dexterity properly of course)
> [...]
>
> Fixed
>
> At HVS you could try Eliminator at Stanage (after you've done Dexterity properly of course)
I think I used one jam on Eliminator and I love jamming!
In reply to Ciderslider:
Hollyash crack at Burbage North, in a jammin' stylii, although you can do it without jamming. Verging on an offwidth rather than a thin hand jam crack though.
Hollyash crack at Burbage North, in a jammin' stylii, although you can do it without jamming. Verging on an offwidth rather than a thin hand jam crack though.
In reply to Ciderslider:
If you get over to Western Grit, head for Thrug on the Roaches Skyline. Great top end VS jamfest.
Eastern Grit-wise, there's some nice stuff at Burbage North:
Amazon Crack (only HS but lovely jamming)
Mutiny Crack (a few jams, then jug hauling)
Hollyash Crack (a bit of bonus offwidth jamming too)
If you get over to Western Grit, head for Thrug on the Roaches Skyline. Great top end VS jamfest.
Eastern Grit-wise, there's some nice stuff at Burbage North:
Amazon Crack (only HS but lovely jamming)
Mutiny Crack (a few jams, then jug hauling)
Hollyash Crack (a bit of bonus offwidth jamming too)
In reply to teflonpete:
Isn't it a face climb with a sketchy offwidth crux (just your leg stuffed into the offwidth?)
Then again maybe I am doing something wrong because I cruised the onsight a few years back and have subsequently bailed twice (*) in the last 12 months, once due to wetness and once due to being a bit wet at heart
* onto the same sketchy DMM 3CU which is impossible to back up...fun times!
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> Hollyash crack at Burbage North, in a jammin' stylii, although you can do it without jamming. Verging on an offwidth rather than a thin hand jam crack though.
>
> Hollyash crack at Burbage North, in a jammin' stylii, although you can do it without jamming. Verging on an offwidth rather than a thin hand jam crack though.
Isn't it a face climb with a sketchy offwidth crux (just your leg stuffed into the offwidth?)
Then again maybe I am doing something wrong because I cruised the onsight a few years back and have subsequently bailed twice (*) in the last 12 months, once due to wetness and once due to being a bit wet at heart
* onto the same sketchy DMM 3CU which is impossible to back up...fun times!
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I offwidthed my way up all of it (with a size 4.5 camalot providing a handy mobile toprope) then heckled my second no end for avoiding the crack entirely, which is certainly not cricket.
No idea where you'd jam on it, unless you were doing some kind of weird stacked jams...
> (In reply to teflonpete)
> [...]
>
> Isn't it a face climb with a sketchy offwidth crux (just your leg stuffed into the offwidth?)
> [...]
>
> Isn't it a face climb with a sketchy offwidth crux (just your leg stuffed into the offwidth?)
I offwidthed my way up all of it (with a size 4.5 camalot providing a handy mobile toprope) then heckled my second no end for avoiding the crack entirely, which is certainly not cricket.
No idea where you'd jam on it, unless you were doing some kind of weird stacked jams...
In reply to victim of mathematics:
No need for stacked jams but I certainly remember jamming my knee in it.
No need for stacked jams but I certainly remember jamming my knee in it.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
That's certainly my memory of it, but I didn't say anything in case I'd mis-remembered.
My partner laybacked it.
> Isn't it a face climb with a sketchy offwidth crux
That's certainly my memory of it, but I didn't say anything in case I'd mis-remembered.
My partner laybacked it.
In reply to Kirill:
Phoenix at Shining Clough gave me a good seeing to, when I was leading E1 pretty consistently on rock other than gritstone. But I suspect you won't be getting on that now until next summer.
Phoenix at Shining Clough gave me a good seeing to, when I was leading E1 pretty consistently on rock other than gritstone. But I suspect you won't be getting on that now until next summer.
In reply to 999thAndy: I've done eliminator and found it really friendly - although there was only one proper jam in the vertical crack
In reply to victim of mathematics: Just seen this after my post above - Eliminator was alot of reaches to big holds - the only jam I used was at the top of the vertical crack
In reply to Ciderslider: and VofM
I suggested Eliminator because I jammed the whole thing apart from the initial layback/barndoor (to the first break) and the final heave onto the ledge/
I suggested Eliminator because I jammed the whole thing apart from the initial layback/barndoor (to the first break) and the final heave onto the ledge/
In reply to 999thAndy: Ah ok, sounds interesting. I think which ever way you do it it's a great route
In reply to Ciderslider:
A couple of jamming traverses at Stanage to throw the cat amongst the pigeons:
The Dalesman - HVS 5a - High Neb
Ellis's Eliminate - VS 4c - Popular End
The problem with grit jamming is that I can think of lots of routes where you might jam a little bit but not many that involve mainly jamming (obvious exceptions available above at Higgar Tor and Millstone)
Oh a couple more with 'cruxy' jamming - Batchelors Left Hand at Hen Cloud and Suicide Wall at Cratcliffe, but you're looking at top end HVS there.
A couple of jamming traverses at Stanage to throw the cat amongst the pigeons:
The Dalesman - HVS 5a - High Neb
Ellis's Eliminate - VS 4c - Popular End
The problem with grit jamming is that I can think of lots of routes where you might jam a little bit but not many that involve mainly jamming (obvious exceptions available above at Higgar Tor and Millstone)
Oh a couple more with 'cruxy' jamming - Batchelors Left Hand at Hen Cloud and Suicide Wall at Cratcliffe, but you're looking at top end HVS there.
In reply to patrick_b:
Thrug - I've just lost the scabs from doing that 2 weeks ago, though it was running with water, & topped up the pain with Saul's Crack, also damp & greasy. Ouchy, ouchy!
Thrug - I've just lost the scabs from doing that 2 weeks ago, though it was running with water, & topped up the pain with Saul's Crack, also damp & greasy. Ouchy, ouchy!
In reply to Ciderslider: Brooks crack, Burbage South, has quality jamming but the crux is not jamming. Best route I've done on the cliff (possibly including B North!)
In reply to Ciderslider: If you're up further north, there's quality jamming on Yorkshire Grit, especially at places like Almscliff and Brimham. Almscliff is full of jamming crack lines (though feel quite stiffly graded - compared to the Peak, Bird's Nest Crack feels VS) and so does Brimham, but Cracked Buttress in particular has 3 quality VS jamming cracklines.
In reply to Ciderslider: Tower crack (hvs) on stanage is a good one and well protected for the hardest parts.
In reply to leeoftroy:
>and well protected for the hardest parts
Most jamming cracks are. That's not usually the problem!
jcm
>and well protected for the hardest parts
Most jamming cracks are. That's not usually the problem!
jcm
In reply to Ciderslider:
The top half of Surgeons Saunter is nice steady jamming, accessed at HVS 5b from below or VS from the left
The top half of Surgeons Saunter is nice steady jamming, accessed at HVS 5b from below or VS from the left
In reply to Offwidth: Cheers Mate
In reply to GrahamD:
< coughs discreetly >
My mate, who was very steady at E3 at the time, asked for a tight rope on this particular bit of access.
Mick
> The top half of Surgeons Saunter is nice steady jamming, accessed at HVS 5b from below
< coughs discreetly >
My mate, who was very steady at E3 at the time, asked for a tight rope on this particular bit of access.
Mick
In reply to kyaizawa:
Indeed it is!
[To the OP]
I've followed the thread with semi-senile indulgence. Hawk's Nest Crack, yes, lovely, happy memories. The File, baggy jams and distinctly uphill, the Whillans imprint. Dexterity Direct, brilliant, to stop is to need to be strong. Terraza Crack, not to be done on a cold day, let alone the coldest day of the year. Bond Street, a delight. The Great Crack at Dukes Quarry, the Salathe headwall crack arrives in Derbyshire, at a most amenable standard - but, as has been noted, so often damp.
However Mark, if you go just a little further 'oop North', tha'll arrive in Yorkshire. It's different up there (the difference must be experienced!) Upward progress generally involves jamming - at least on grit.
So why not do as the man says, and go to Almscliffe? (The Victorian in me insists in the extra e, rightly or wrongly.) The traditional start is Bird's Nest Crack. (Top tip, whop two cams in quick.) Next Traditional Route, next Pothole Direct. Then... the crag's your oyster. Great Western is particularly memorable. But well nigh everything is worth doing. And the grades? Well, they're well nigh irrelevant. But, if there's a joy in fighting your way upwards via jamming, then Almscliffe comes close to being jammer's paradise.
Everything gained will be hard-earned. (This is Yorkshire!) But all the more memorable for that.
Mick
> If you're up further north, there's quality jamming on Yorkshire Grit, especially at places like Almscliff and Brimham. Almscliff is full of jamming crack lines...
Indeed it is!
[To the OP]
I've followed the thread with semi-senile indulgence. Hawk's Nest Crack, yes, lovely, happy memories. The File, baggy jams and distinctly uphill, the Whillans imprint. Dexterity Direct, brilliant, to stop is to need to be strong. Terraza Crack, not to be done on a cold day, let alone the coldest day of the year. Bond Street, a delight. The Great Crack at Dukes Quarry, the Salathe headwall crack arrives in Derbyshire, at a most amenable standard - but, as has been noted, so often damp.
However Mark, if you go just a little further 'oop North', tha'll arrive in Yorkshire. It's different up there (the difference must be experienced!) Upward progress generally involves jamming - at least on grit.
So why not do as the man says, and go to Almscliffe? (The Victorian in me insists in the extra e, rightly or wrongly.) The traditional start is Bird's Nest Crack. (Top tip, whop two cams in quick.) Next Traditional Route, next Pothole Direct. Then... the crag's your oyster. Great Western is particularly memorable. But well nigh everything is worth doing. And the grades? Well, they're well nigh irrelevant. But, if there's a joy in fighting your way upwards via jamming, then Almscliffe comes close to being jammer's paradise.
Everything gained will be hard-earned. (This is Yorkshire!) But all the more memorable for that.
Mick
In reply to victim of mathematics:
What's that limestone one at Ravensdale on the outside of the arch called? That's good.
Impendant is the name. Good too.
Amazon Crack at Burbage North has to be about the best intro jamming crack if my memory serves me well.
Martin
What's that limestone one at Ravensdale on the outside of the arch called? That's good.
Impendant is the name. Good too.
Amazon Crack at Burbage North has to be about the best intro jamming crack if my memory serves me well.
Martin
In reply to Martin Hore:
I seem to recall plenty of jamming on Route 1 at Wimberry. Albeit mostly for the left hand! Now that's a great route - about 20m high and well worth going just for that.
As an aside, if you're tempted to avoid jamming by laybacking it - don't. This is what my second did and he was huffing and puffing and red-faced all the way - great entertainment, no doubt adding to my satisfaction.
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
>
> Amazon Crack at Burbage North has to be about the best intro jamming crack if my memory serves me well.
>
> Amazon Crack at Burbage North has to be about the best intro jamming crack if my memory serves me well.
I seem to recall plenty of jamming on Route 1 at Wimberry. Albeit mostly for the left hand! Now that's a great route - about 20m high and well worth going just for that.
As an aside, if you're tempted to avoid jamming by laybacking it - don't. This is what my second did and he was huffing and puffing and red-faced all the way - great entertainment, no doubt adding to my satisfaction.
In reply to Ciderslider: I've very little experience on Grit, but just to redress the Eastern grit bias of the thread I would advocate the charms of Saul's Crack at The Roaches.
Away from the grit altogether Herford's Crack on the Gribben Facet in the Ogwen Valley is a jamming line of exquisite purity at the friendly end of HVS.
Away from the grit altogether Herford's Crack on the Gribben Facet in the Ogwen Valley is a jamming line of exquisite purity at the friendly end of HVS.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Amen to that. Best pitch of jamming I've done that wasn't The File.
> Away from the grit altogether Herford's Crack on the Gribben Facet in the Ogwen Valley is a jamming line of exquisite purity at the friendly end of HVS.
Amen to that. Best pitch of jamming I've done that wasn't The File.
In reply to victim of mathematics:
You can semi-layback all the jamming moves on Herfords at pretty much the same grade; so no need to jam, although it helps cut pump on the half-rests. The File is the ultimate VS jamming pitch as its nicely varied and the jams are good and you will be severely spanked if you can't jam. Herfords is also easier than The File and so really should be VS.
You can semi-layback all the jamming moves on Herfords at pretty much the same grade; so no need to jam, although it helps cut pump on the half-rests. The File is the ultimate VS jamming pitch as its nicely varied and the jams are good and you will be severely spanked if you can't jam. Herfords is also easier than The File and so really should be VS.
In reply to Offwidth:
Don't know Herfords but that's certainly true of The File.
Another VS jamming crack which I don't think has been mentioned is the second pitch of Two Pitch Route at Curbar. That's quite a cheeky little number at the grade.
Someone's mentioned Little Innominate, I trust?
jcm
Don't know Herfords but that's certainly true of The File.
Another VS jamming crack which I don't think has been mentioned is the second pitch of Two Pitch Route at Curbar. That's quite a cheeky little number at the grade.
Someone's mentioned Little Innominate, I trust?
jcm
In reply to Offwidth:
Are there any VS jamming cracks in Wales that are harder than the File?
I realise jamming is a definite Grit 'thing' which I guess is why it remains at VS but I think there are many areas of the UK that jamming of that standard would warrant HVS, after all you can't expect grade consistency throughout all the climbing areas of the UK can you? (we are certainly a fair way off that IMO), and if you do I'd argue there is at least as much case for up grading the file as down grading HVS jamming cracks elsewhere.
Are there any VS jamming cracks in Wales that are harder than the File?
I realise jamming is a definite Grit 'thing' which I guess is why it remains at VS but I think there are many areas of the UK that jamming of that standard would warrant HVS, after all you can't expect grade consistency throughout all the climbing areas of the UK can you? (we are certainly a fair way off that IMO), and if you do I'd argue there is at least as much case for up grading the file as down grading HVS jamming cracks elsewhere.
In reply to Ciderslider:
If you want a proper jamming test piece at HVS you'll have to go to Ravensheugh and get on Baluster Crack. If you climb it clean, I think you'll honestly be able to consider your HVS crack apprenticeship complete.
If you want a proper jamming test piece at HVS you'll have to go to Ravensheugh and get on Baluster Crack. If you climb it clean, I think you'll honestly be able to consider your HVS crack apprenticeship complete.
In reply to Offwidth:
Laybacking anything is the work of cads, bounders, rakes and base fiends. Laybacking jamming cracks should be punishable by death. Why would you do such a thing?
As for Herford's, I'm quite comfortable with it being HVS and The File being VS, given the fact that jamming cracks are 10 a penny on grit and a rarity in Wales, although I can see why some people might not like that argument. It also wasn't quite as easy as I was expecting it to be, perhaps because the rhyolite has less friction than grit. Or maybe it was just the fear I had because Mr Ripley decided to answer his phone whilst in the middle of belaying me
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
>
> You can semi-layback all the jamming moves on Herfords at pretty much the same grade; so no need to jam, although it helps cut pump on the half-rests. The File is the ultimate VS jamming pitch as its nicely varied and the jams are good and you will be severely spanked if you can't jam. Herfords is also easier than The File and so really should be VS.
>
> You can semi-layback all the jamming moves on Herfords at pretty much the same grade; so no need to jam, although it helps cut pump on the half-rests. The File is the ultimate VS jamming pitch as its nicely varied and the jams are good and you will be severely spanked if you can't jam. Herfords is also easier than The File and so really should be VS.
Laybacking anything is the work of cads, bounders, rakes and base fiends. Laybacking jamming cracks should be punishable by death. Why would you do such a thing?
As for Herford's, I'm quite comfortable with it being HVS and The File being VS, given the fact that jamming cracks are 10 a penny on grit and a rarity in Wales, although I can see why some people might not like that argument. It also wasn't quite as easy as I was expecting it to be, perhaps because the rhyolite has less friction than grit. Or maybe it was just the fear I had because Mr Ripley decided to answer his phone whilst in the middle of belaying me
In reply to victim of mathematics: He's a talented one that Mr. Ripley and multi tasking is surely no problem for him
In reply to victim of mathematics:
The grade is fair enough as long as people dont expect such an easy ride on grit (ie that this route IS easier than The File). Yes regional variations exist especially on climbing styles that are uncommon for the area. BB is HS now acording to the latest langdale guide FFS wheras on grit the crux bit would be VD 4a..
The grade is fair enough as long as people dont expect such an easy ride on grit (ie that this route IS easier than The File). Yes regional variations exist especially on climbing styles that are uncommon for the area. BB is HS now acording to the latest langdale guide FFS wheras on grit the crux bit would be VD 4a..
In reply to victim of mathematics:
I agree, but I did have a 14 year gap between climbing the 2 routes.
Do have big hands though, my optimum hand crack fits 3.5 Friend.
> As for Herford's, I'm quite comfortable with it being HVS and The File being VS,
I agree, but I did have a 14 year gap between climbing the 2 routes.
Do have big hands though, my optimum hand crack fits 3.5 Friend.
In reply to Ciderslider:
If you want a nasty, slimy, but wonderful test piece at HVS (perhaps not yet) Puppet Crack at Chatsworth is ace and not E1. Unfortunately everything else there of real worth is harder and often meaner
If you want a nasty, slimy, but wonderful test piece at HVS (perhaps not yet) Puppet Crack at Chatsworth is ace and not E1. Unfortunately everything else there of real worth is harder and often meaner
In reply to Ciderslider:
Delstree at Hen Cloud is a fairly honest sustained hand jamfest - probably the most continuous I've done on grit. It also has a few nice small features for feet which means they don't have to be painfully rammed into the crack the whole way.
I seem to remember King Bee Crack at Ilkley was all about jamming - but it may be a single mover wonder.
Both the above are middle of the road HVS.
Delstree at Hen Cloud is a fairly honest sustained hand jamfest - probably the most continuous I've done on grit. It also has a few nice small features for feet which means they don't have to be painfully rammed into the crack the whole way.
I seem to remember King Bee Crack at Ilkley was all about jamming - but it may be a single mover wonder.
Both the above are middle of the road HVS.
In reply to Siderunner:
>I seem to remember King Bee Crack at Ilkley
Isn't KBC at Holyhead Mountain?
jcm
>I seem to remember King Bee Crack at Ilkley
Isn't KBC at Holyhead Mountain?
jcm
In reply to Siderunner:
I like the way the OP mentions falling off two VS jamming cracks in his opening post and not climbing that many more, and yet there are a lot of suggestions for nails HVS's like Delstree.
Personally I think what the OP needs to improve is a good selection at VS and some nice softish HVS's to get his eye in!
I like the way the OP mentions falling off two VS jamming cracks in his opening post and not climbing that many more, and yet there are a lot of suggestions for nails HVS's like Delstree.
Personally I think what the OP needs to improve is a good selection at VS and some nice softish HVS's to get his eye in!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Beeline, perhaps?
> (In reply to Siderunner)
>
> >I seem to remember King Bee Crack at Ilkley
>
> Isn't KBC at Holyhead Mountain?
>
> jcm
>
> >I seem to remember King Bee Crack at Ilkley
>
> Isn't KBC at Holyhead Mountain?
>
> jcm
Beeline, perhaps?
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Sounds like it. Stonking jams on Beeline, more memorable than any on King Bee Crack.
Mick
> Beeline, perhaps?
Sounds like it. Stonking jams on Beeline, more memorable than any on King Bee Crack.
Mick
In reply to Toreador:
One of the old bouldering guides had a quality label for good problems which was 'worth getting out of bed for'. For the especially fine problems the labels was 'worth getting out of someone else's bed for'. Emperor Flake climb falls in the latter category for a solid VDiff leader and the odd diff was always going to get some sheet's (especially yours) moving. Good enough now?
One of the old bouldering guides had a quality label for good problems which was 'worth getting out of bed for'. For the especially fine problems the labels was 'worth getting out of someone else's bed for'. Emperor Flake climb falls in the latter category for a solid VDiff leader and the odd diff was always going to get some sheet's (especially yours) moving. Good enough now?
In reply to Ciderslider: Nobody has yet mentioned one of the obvious ones - Phoenix on Shining Clough. Another really good one is Plumbline at Running Hill Pits. Both are VS and reasonable.
I'd also strongly recommend Herford's Crack (Idwal), as already mentioned, and Boot Crack (Milestone Buttress), both given HVS 5a, though the latter is quite tricky.
Once you pass these entrance exams, take a trip to Colorado and visit Turkey Rocks - an absolutely amazing selection of jamming cracks!
I'd also strongly recommend Herford's Crack (Idwal), as already mentioned, and Boot Crack (Milestone Buttress), both given HVS 5a, though the latter is quite tricky.
Once you pass these entrance exams, take a trip to Colorado and visit Turkey Rocks - an absolutely amazing selection of jamming cracks!
In reply to Rob Davies:
apart from Alan Little on 8th October
I remember struggling on the route until I decided to try laybacking instead of jamming, at which point it suddenly became easy.
> Nobody has yet mentioned one of the obvious ones - Phoenix on Shining Clough
apart from Alan Little on 8th October
I remember struggling on the route until I decided to try laybacking instead of jamming, at which point it suddenly became easy.
In reply to Rob Davies:
I did both the year I was living in the Chew, interestingly I remember Phoenix being a cruise and Plumbline being a good fight. I fell off the top but was mainly I think because you come out of the jams and get some 'good' edges but they were damp and my fingers totally frozen by them!
> (In reply to Ciderslider) Nobody has yet mentioned one of the obvious ones - Phoenix on Shining Clough. Another really good one is Plumbline at Running Hill Pits. Both are VS and reasonable.
I did both the year I was living in the Chew, interestingly I remember Phoenix being a cruise and Plumbline being a good fight. I fell off the top but was mainly I think because you come out of the jams and get some 'good' edges but they were damp and my fingers totally frozen by them!
In reply to TobyA:
That sounds different to the last time you related the route as really tough VS in contradiction to others... cold hands eh? Shady routes can be a swine for that: slow drying and no sun warmth.
That sounds different to the last time you related the route as really tough VS in contradiction to others... cold hands eh? Shady routes can be a swine for that: slow drying and no sun warmth.
In reply to Offwidth:
Plumbline? Well obviously I guess I really fell off because I was tired near the top and didn't have the strength to hold on to damp holds with cold hands. I don't remember them being particularly good holds, flat edges maybe only a few cms deep - but they could be jugs and that's just the self justification of time past playing tricks on me.
It mainly sticks in the mind though because its one of the very few times I've pulled runners in fall. One I knew was rubbish so actually backed it up and the second piece I thought was good but still shot out - so a biggish fall makes it stick in the memory! But yes, it sticks in the mind as one of those VS that seemed hard. Fairy Nuff I remember as being even harder but I made it up that one ok - so I'd take it all with a big pinch of salt.
> That sounds different to the last time you related the route as really tough VS
Plumbline? Well obviously I guess I really fell off because I was tired near the top and didn't have the strength to hold on to damp holds with cold hands. I don't remember them being particularly good holds, flat edges maybe only a few cms deep - but they could be jugs and that's just the self justification of time past playing tricks on me.
It mainly sticks in the mind though because its one of the very few times I've pulled runners in fall. One I knew was rubbish so actually backed it up and the second piece I thought was good but still shot out - so a biggish fall makes it stick in the memory! But yes, it sticks in the mind as one of those VS that seemed hard. Fairy Nuff I remember as being even harder but I made it up that one ok - so I'd take it all with a big pinch of salt.
In reply to Ciderslider: chequers crack, froggatt
In reply to Lukem6:
Meaner than my suggestion of Puppet Crack. While we're on mean ones though, Valkyrie, Froggatt has a very pure, but slippery, hand crack and To find out if you can really hold a hand-jam, how about Roof Route at Rivelin? I think I cut completely loose when I did it.
> chequers crack, froggatt
Meaner than my suggestion of Puppet Crack. While we're on mean ones though, Valkyrie, Froggatt has a very pure, but slippery, hand crack and To find out if you can really hold a hand-jam, how about Roof Route at Rivelin? I think I cut completely loose when I did it.
In reply to Cake:
Your suggestions are a lot less mean than Chequers Crack (and involve actual jamming)!
> (In reply to Lukem6)
> [...]
>
> Meaner than my suggestion of Puppet Crack. While we're on mean ones though, Valkyrie, Froggatt has a very pure, but slippery, hand crack and To find out if you can really hold a hand-jam, how about Roof Route at Rivelin? I think I cut completely loose when I did it.
> [...]
>
> Meaner than my suggestion of Puppet Crack. While we're on mean ones though, Valkyrie, Froggatt has a very pure, but slippery, hand crack and To find out if you can really hold a hand-jam, how about Roof Route at Rivelin? I think I cut completely loose when I did it.
Your suggestions are a lot less mean than Chequers Crack (and involve actual jamming)!
In reply to victim of mathematics: chequers has 3 solid jams on the crux and the top is ripe for jamming, Valkyrie is another one good one however I feel the jamming on that is vs 5a the top is definitely HVS.
Crank at Ramshaw is such a good romp if only it went on another 100 meters
Crank at Ramshaw is such a good romp if only it went on another 100 meters
In reply to Lukem6: to be mean would be to suggest some limestone jamming in the peak
In reply to Lukem6:
Fair enough, the top is proper jamming. I've no idea where you think the 'solid jams' are on the bottom crack. If they exist then why is it so famously desperate?
> (In reply to victim of mathematics) chequers has 3 solid jams on the crux and the top is ripe for jamming, Valkyrie is another one good one however I feel the jamming on that is vs 5a the top is definitely HVS.
Fair enough, the top is proper jamming. I've no idea where you think the 'solid jams' are on the bottom crack. If they exist then why is it so famously desperate?
In reply to victim of mathematics: Dunno, I only found them after I learnt to jam, originally went for the desperate lay back option. But finger lock to get off the start, Right hand jam just above,right hand jam in the middle before you transfer into the crux there is a fist jam at the base of the cave.
In reply to Lukem6:
Such as?
> (In reply to Lukem6) to be mean would be to suggest some limestone jamming in the peak
Such as?
In reply to Offwidth:
Mealy...es? Not done it actually, but that crag has a few awkward routes. But if you wanted to be MEAN, you wouldn't faff with Peak limestone over Grit.
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
>
> There is that VS thing at ravensdale on the outside of the arch.
>
> There is that VS thing at ravensdale on the outside of the arch.
Mealy...es? Not done it actually, but that crag has a few awkward routes. But if you wanted to be MEAN, you wouldn't faff with Peak limestone over Grit.
In reply to Ciderslider: great crack at wildcat, What the hell at stoney,
In reply to Lukem6:
< coughs discreetly > Should one reach it. Many don't.
Why not go the whole hog and nominate Easy Pickings? The odd good jam on that too (should one reach it!) Never was a route more sarcastically named.
'Whose wrinkled brow and sneer of cold command
told that its author well those passions read...'
(Shelley anticipating Bankcroft)
Mick
> chequers has 3 solid jams on the crux and the top is ripe for jamming...
< coughs discreetly > Should one reach it. Many don't.
Why not go the whole hog and nominate Easy Pickings? The odd good jam on that too (should one reach it!) Never was a route more sarcastically named.
'Whose wrinkled brow and sneer of cold command
told that its author well those passions read...'
(Shelley anticipating Bankcroft)
Mick
In reply to Ciderslider:
There is a memorable scene near the start of Lawrence of Arabia where he is seen snuffing out matches between his fingers. His subordinate then tries the same.
"Ooh! It damn well 'urts! What's the trick?" he says.
Lawrence responds:
"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
> > Next time I am gonna tape my hands - as it was a bit painful.
There is a memorable scene near the start of Lawrence of Arabia where he is seen snuffing out matches between his fingers. His subordinate then tries the same.
"Ooh! It damn well 'urts! What's the trick?" he says.
Lawrence responds:
"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
In reply to victim of mathematics:
I was trying to address the OP with some useful and very enjoyable nominations after I realised that Chequers and Puppet are not particularly enjoyable! We wouldn't want to go off on a tangent would we?
> (In reply to Cake)
> [...]
>
> Your suggestions are a lot less mean than Chequers Crack (and involve actual jamming)!
> [...]
>
> Your suggestions are a lot less mean than Chequers Crack (and involve actual jamming)!
I was trying to address the OP with some useful and very enjoyable nominations after I realised that Chequers and Puppet are not particularly enjoyable! We wouldn't want to go off on a tangent would we?
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