/ NEWS: Rebecca Kinghorn (14) climbs Daniboy 8a
Great effort from Rebecca, particularly since she was too small to fit into some of the kneebars and had to work out short person beta for some of the sequences (my wife has had similar problems on routes and I know how frustrating she finds it when taller climbers just reach through!).
Though I'm not sure how being based in Aberdeen can be used as an excuse for not getting outside to climb, especially given the summer we've just had!
Thanks Stuart. I know its a poor excuse!! Amanda seems to manage. Since we got back she has been keen to get out but the cold might put her off. Maybe you could recommend some routes for her.
> (my wife has had similar problems on routes and I know how frustrating she finds it when taller climbers just reach through!).
Re the OP - well done, reminds me of a future British champion who climbed her first 8a on Kalymnos at the age of 15
I think it depends on the climb and the angle. My wife is a significantly better climber than I am (redpointing 7c/7c+ to my 7a/7a+) but there have been climbs we've both worked which I've found easier than her because I could reach holds that she couldn't, or where I could keep my feet on good footholds while she had to use marginal smears to reach between the same handholds. I'm 6'3" with a +ve ape index while she's 5'5" with a -ve ape index.
It's not so much a case of being short or tall, it's more the case of being shorter than average. In Rebecca's case, she is a bit shorter than average, so invariably has to use alternative beta where someone of average height, or taller, could use the standard beta.
In many cases being taller than average is not an advantage, but it is rarely a disadvantage, whereas being shorter than average is disadvantageous a lot more of the time. ;)
Well done Rebecca!
No, being tall is generally a disadvantage (levers, strength:weight etc), but, when it is an advantage, it is more obviously explicitly so (being able to reach a handhold off a given foothold), so people wrongly get the impression that it is generally an advantage.
Having said that, height is more often an advantage/less of a disadvantage indoors where routes are set with an average height in mind and without alternative intermediate holds.
Top effort Rebecca!!! Well done, so excited to see what is to come next!?!
> No, being tall is generally a disadvantage (levers, strength:weight etc), but, when it is an advantage, it is more obviously explicitly so (being able to reach a handhold off a given foothold), so people wrongly get the impression that it is generally an advantage.
If it was a simple matter of stretching someone out, then being tall would be an advantage most, but not all, of the time. However the extra weight the tall inevitably carry is always a disadvantage, and becomes a greater disadvantage when much of that weight is in the legs and we are discussing very overhanging routes.
However the sound of a 46 year old bloke going "waa waa not fair" should in no way detract from a stunning achievement from someone with far more talent !
In those taller than the average you could make that argument but we are talking here about the disparity between someone who is shorter than average, so most people are taller.
Also, with the right training you can can negate the effect of less efficient levers by getting stronger!
Me, I'm always too short for any move I can't do, it's nothing to do with me being as weak as a kitten, with lousy technique to boot! ;)
> Also, with the right training you can can negate the effect of less efficient levers by getting stronger!
What a ridiculous comment.
Fine effort though Rebecca.
> What a ridiculous comment.
Beat me to it!
> In those taller than the average you could make that argument but we are talking here about the disparity between someone who is shorter than average, so most people are taller.
Eh? Is that like the difference between a duck?
I think you'll find there's quite a lot of difference between a duck, Rob. Anyway, you're talking rubbish. If you can just reach past moves then it's easier. If you can't climb steep rock, you're just not strong enough and you're looking for excuses. There, I've said it.
> I think you'll find there's quite a lot of difference between a duck.
Please give one specific difference.
Of course I'm always looking for excuses, because I badly need them, but this one is perfectly valid and I'm not talking rubbish.
Seriously, it does get really, really boring climbing for thirty years and being routinely told almost whenever I succeed in anything that it must all be so easy for me because I'm tall.
And don't get me started on sitting starts (so to speak).
Good job you don't climb much on the grit. That'd be really tedious:
Reach over the top.
> What a ridiculous comment.
Why? A less efficient lever will require more force to move it. A stronger muscle will exert more force.
I'm with you on that one, even at my "average" height I struggle with some (all) sit starts! (nothing to do with me being weak of course)
Yes, but you are missing the whole point that, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, inefficient levers are a disadvantage.
> , ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL,...............
But haven't we already ascertained that things are not equal. Taller, shorter, older, younger, lighter, heavier.
Train to your weaknesses, climb to your strengths.
Apologies to Rebecca for going off topic. ;)
> Yes, but you are missing the whole point that, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, inefficient levers are a disadvantage.
so is insufficient height ;)
> But haven't we already ascertained that things are not equal. Taller, shorter, older, younger, lighter, heavier.
> Train to your weaknesses, climb to your strengths.
You just don't get it do you. I give up.
I'm not really sure what I don't 'get', but then it is late.
A taller climber being disadvantaged by longer (less efficient) levers is not much different to a shorter climber being disadvantaged by lack of reach. They are just different problems that have to be overcome.
Some moves suit smaller climbers, some moves suit taller climbers. These pretty much balance out, though, because the reasons some moves suit smaller climbere are usually more subtle and less obvious, there is a common misconception that the general disadvantage lies with smaller climbers. However, taller climbers do have the general disadvantage of inefficient levers and inferior strength to weight ratio (assuming equal training). Overall, therefore, taller climbers are at a disadvantage.
It was a great trip and we all enjoyed it with great weather and the people are lovely. Well worth a visit if you haven't been.
Rebecca isn't a member on here but on her behalf,many thanks for all the comments and messages.
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