/ NEWS: Rebecca Kinghorn (14) climbs Daniboy 8a

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UKC News - on 30 Oct 2013
Rebecca cutting loose going through the roof on Daniboy, 4 kb

14 year old GB junior climbing team member Rebecca Kinghorn has recently returned from a very successful trip to Kalymnos where she red pointed Daniboy 8a.

This is Rebecca's first 8a, but is most likely not her last...



Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68459
Stuart S - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to UKC News:

Great effort from Rebecca, particularly since she was too small to fit into some of the kneebars and had to work out short person beta for some of the sequences (my wife has had similar problems on routes and I know how frustrating she finds it when taller climbers just reach through!).

Though I'm not sure how being based in Aberdeen can be used as an excuse for not getting outside to climb, especially given the summer we've just had!
Scott K - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to Stuart S:
Thanks Stuart. I know its a poor excuse!! Amanda seems to manage. Since we got back she has been keen to get out but the cold might put her off. Maybe you could recommend some routes for her.
Cheers, Scott.
samwillo - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to UKC News: Great effort Rebecca. If you're looking for local stuff to have a crack at, the Sportlethan wall is bone dry (rare!). Also at Clashfarquar there is a really good route called Spice of Life if you're looking for something more stamina related.
Chris the Tall - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to Stuart S:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> (my wife has had similar problems on routes and I know how frustrating she finds it when taller climbers just reach through!).
>
Do people still think that being tall is an advantage in climbing, particularly climbing routes as steep as this ? How strange

Re the OP - well done, reminds me of a future British champion who climbed her first 8a on Kalymnos at the age of 15
Stuart S - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Stuart S)

> Do people still think that being tall is an advantage in climbing, particularly climbing routes as steep as this ? How strange

I think it depends on the climb and the angle. My wife is a significantly better climber than I am (redpointing 7c/7c+ to my 7a/7a+) but there have been climbs we've both worked which I've found easier than her because I could reach holds that she couldn't, or where I could keep my feet on good footholds while she had to use marginal smears to reach between the same handholds. I'm 6'3" with a +ve ape index while she's 5'5" with a -ve ape index.
fil - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to Chris the Tall:

It's not so much a case of being short or tall, it's more the case of being shorter than average. In Rebecca's case, she is a bit shorter than average, so invariably has to use alternative beta where someone of average height, or taller, could use the standard beta.

In many cases being taller than average is not an advantage, but it is rarely a disadvantage, whereas being shorter than average is disadvantageous a lot more of the time. ;)

Well done Rebecca!
Robert Durran - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to fil:
> In many cases being taller than average is not an advantage, but it is rarely a disadvantage, whereas being shorter than average is disadvantageous a lot more of the time. ;)

No, being tall is generally a disadvantage (levers, strength:weight etc), but, when it is an advantage, it is more obviously explicitly so (being able to reach a handhold off a given foothold), so people wrongly get the impression that it is generally an advantage.

Having said that, height is more often an advantage/less of a disadvantage indoors where routes are set with an average height in mind and without alternative intermediate holds.

> Well done Rebecca!

Indeed!

lyons - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to UKC News:
Top effort Rebecca!!! Well done, so excited to see what is to come next!?!
Chris the Tall - on 30 Oct 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to fil)
> [...]
>
> No, being tall is generally a disadvantage (levers, strength:weight etc), but, when it is an advantage, it is more obviously explicitly so (being able to reach a handhold off a given foothold), so people wrongly get the impression that it is generally an advantage.

+1

If it was a simple matter of stretching someone out, then being tall would be an advantage most, but not all, of the time. However the extra weight the tall inevitably carry is always a disadvantage, and becomes a greater disadvantage when much of that weight is in the legs and we are discussing very overhanging routes.

However the sound of a 46 year old bloke going "waa waa not fair" should in no way detract from a stunning achievement from someone with far more talent !

fil - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

In those taller than the average you could make that argument but we are talking here about the disparity between someone who is shorter than average, so most people are taller.
Also, with the right training you can can negate the effect of less efficient levers by getting stronger!

Me, I'm always too short for any move I can't do, it's nothing to do with me being as weak as a kitten, with lousy technique to boot! ;)
Franco Cookson on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to fil:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
>
> Also, with the right training you can can negate the effect of less efficient levers by getting stronger!
>


What a ridiculous comment.

Fine effort though Rebecca.

Robert Durran - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Franco Cookson:
> (In reply to fil)
>
> What a ridiculous comment.

Beat me to it!

Robert Durran - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to fil:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> In those taller than the average you could make that argument but we are talking here about the disparity between someone who is shorter than average, so most people are taller.

Eh? Is that like the difference between a duck?
jon on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

I think you'll find there's quite a lot of difference between a duck, Rob. Anyway, you're talking rubbish. If you can just reach past moves then it's easier. If you can't climb steep rock, you're just not strong enough and you're looking for excuses. There, I've said it.
Robert Durran - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> I think you'll find there's quite a lot of difference between a duck.

Please give one specific difference.

> Anyway, you're talking rubbish. If you can just reach past moves then it's easier. If you can't climb steep rock, you're just not strong enough and you're looking for excuses. There, I've said it.

Of course I'm always looking for excuses, because I badly need them, but this one is perfectly valid and I'm not talking rubbish.

Seriously, it does get really, really boring climbing for thirty years and being routinely told almost whenever I succeed in anything that it must all be so easy for me because I'm tall.

And don't get me started on sitting starts (so to speak).

jon on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

Good job you don't climb much on the grit. That'd be really tedious:

Approach crag.
Reach over the top.
Mantle.
fil - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Franco Cookson:
> (In reply to fil)
> [...]
>
>
> What a ridiculous comment.
>

Why? A less efficient lever will require more force to move it. A stronger muscle will exert more force.



fil - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to jon)
> [...]
>

> And don't get me started on sitting starts (so to speak).

I'm with you on that one, even at my "average" height I struggle with some (all) sit starts! (nothing to do with me being weak of course)
;)


Robert Durran - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to fil:
> (In reply to Franco Cookson)

> Why? A less efficient lever will require more force to move it. A stronger muscle will exert more force.

Yes, but you are missing the whole point that, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, inefficient levers are a disadvantage.

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fil - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to fil)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> , ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL,...............

But haven't we already ascertained that things are not equal. Taller, shorter, older, younger, lighter, heavier.
Train to your weaknesses, climb to your strengths.

fil - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to fil:
Apologies to Rebecca for going off topic. ;)
fil - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to fil)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Yes, but you are missing the whole point that, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, inefficient levers are a disadvantage.

so is insufficient height ;)

Robert Durran - on 31 Oct 2013
In reply to fil:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> But haven't we already ascertained that things are not equal. Taller, shorter, older, younger, lighter, heavier.
> Train to your weaknesses, climb to your strengths.

You just don't get it do you. I give up.

fil - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

I'm not really sure what I don't 'get', but then it is late.

A taller climber being disadvantaged by longer (less efficient) levers is not much different to a shorter climber being disadvantaged by lack of reach. They are just different problems that have to be overcome.

Robert Durran - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to fil:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)

> A taller climber being disadvantaged by longer (less efficient) levers is not much different to a shorter climber being disadvantaged by lack of reach. They are just different problems that have to be overcome.

Some moves suit smaller climbers, some moves suit taller climbers. These pretty much balance out, though, because the reasons some moves suit smaller climbere are usually more subtle and less obvious, there is a common misconception that the general disadvantage lies with smaller climbers. However, taller climbers do have the general disadvantage of inefficient levers and inferior strength to weight ratio (assuming equal training). Overall, therefore, taller climbers are at a disadvantage.



Scott K - on 01 Nov 2013
In reply to Robert Durran: In Rebecca's case she is almost 5' tall so it has an impact but this must be balanced with the fact that she is light, has great power to weight and incredibly strong hands. I know on some routes I struggle to reach a move but she cruises past as she gets her feet higher and can lock off very well.
It was a great trip and we all enjoyed it with great weather and the people are lovely. Well worth a visit if you haven't been.
Rebecca isn't a member on here but on her behalf,many thanks for all the comments and messages.
Cheers, Scott.

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