UKC

The hills in Highland looking already wintery, let's kick-start the condition thread!
It seems a few team have climbed ridges in Cairngorm Northern Corries. And Aonach Eagach.
Any one knows the current conditions in Ben? (It seems to warm up towards the weekend...)

So far, this is the photo of Cairngorms taken from Glenmore yesterday (5 Nov 2013).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alpiniste/10706161794/
Masa

A single thread for Scottish conditions? Good luck

In reply to Milesy:

So basically the whole winter forum in one thread?!

The same as the past years. As I understand the thread of this (sort of) title was used as the starting point of the winter-climbing conditions in Scotland (but not anywhere else like Wales or Lakes, obviously!) - but obviously how it is used is entirely up to the UKC users. People often created or followed the threads of different and more specific titles, such as, 'Lochnagar conditions'. Personally I liked that way, and I was surprised to find there had been no thread of this one this year, yet, despite the fact there have been a fair amount of snow fall in Highland.

Anyway, a note of caution is that the threads with a title that contains 'condition' or alike will appear in the winter-condition summary page, and so are useful!
I have found this forums about the winter conditions have been very useful in the past years, and I am sure it is the same for many of you - let's keep the good tradition!

Went to Coire an t-Sneachda yesterday (9 November 2013).
A few of my photos are uploaded here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alpiniste/sets/72157637504994886/
There were a fair number of parties (a dozen or more?). A good amount of powdery snow was there and the scenery was properly wintery. However the ice was hardly formed - Aladdin's Mirror Direct was not seen, for example. Almost no neve, and although the temperature was freezing (-3 degC in the corrie at midday) throughout the day the turfs were hardly frozen, yet.
Today (Sunday) it was raining even at the Cairngorms ski resort carpark at 7:30am and was soggy at 1 degC. There was a very little temperature difference between the valley and carpark. The hills being covered with fog or clouds, and knowing there would be little ice/neve, we thought it wouldn't be a nice day for winter-climbing, and turned back...
For your information! Masa

In reply to Milesy:

Yes, I think a single thread that just shows picture links and condition reports should be encouraged. Maybe with the "Reply" button in some way disabled or partially activated so that you can post but not hold a running conversation. <that might be easier said than done>
Any side topics, "What gear do I need for Fingers Ridge...etc?" can be taken up elsewhere.
We seem to be able to string the "What is a bump?" thread along successfully enough.

Alas, I know that by mentioning this I have split the thread already, eggs....omelettes ...anyone?

Good luck Masa-Alpin.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Crampon weather this morning methinks in Argyll

Clear skies ,nasty frost ,and yesterday's low level snow/hail.

Should be refreshing

In reply to masa-alpin: Yes started grey and turned unto a stunning bluesky day… great for a walk. By 10 the clouds were rolling back and there was no wind in Coire an t Sneachda at all. When we came out late afternoon the light as stunning.

In reply to masa-alpin:

A glorious day to be on the hills.

The crunch and sparkle of the snow was great.

Not that cold either.

In reply to masa-alpin: Thoughts on SCnL mixed routes for the coming week anyone?

In reply to euanryan: Cack now Euan and cacker to come. Deep soft snow on approach. Temps 0-3 at 900m and gales. Turf not frozen. Blocks loose. Wait for winter… it'll be much better.

In reply to masa-alpin: You made the wrong choice I am afraid! today was one of the best days weather wise I have ever had in the Norries! granted there is no usefull ice or neve but the snowed up rock routes were in stunning nick! Did hidden chimney and the haston line today, they were at the higher end of their suggested grades due to the thin early season conditions, which made them even better in my opinion (haston line was tech 5 crux, but still III). I think nearly all the snowed up rock routes between grades Iv and VI were climbed in the corrie today!

In reply to Webster: I've not climbed in the Northern Corries before and don't really know the area. Are there any routes of III or easier IV that are in condition, or were at the weekend?

In reply to Webster:
(haston line was tech 5 crux, but still III)

Haston Line rarely gets much build up on the crux sections to make it easier. I've done it twice and never had any usable neve or ice. That said I think it's nails for tech 4 normally anyway.

In a very heavy winter the ledges can get so built up (and so much hore frost and snow on the slabs) that a lot of climbs get much easier (but bolder) but that is not the conditions the climbs are graded for.

In reply to NottsRich:

Hey Rich, I did Short Circuit IV 5 in Coire an T'Sneachda on Saturday. Felt very thin at the crux but really enjoyable. I'd like to say felt tech 6 but having never climbed tech 6 I couldn't say. Also spent a lot of time excavating the route from under deep powder snow resulting in an after dark top out. For this reason I would probably pick something that has seen some traffic already or allow a little extra time.

Hidden Chimney III or IV with direct start looked good and probably a better option than the above as I think it starts a bit lower down if you do the direct start so you can avoid some of the wading through powder.

I expect it's all a soggy mess today though.

Hope you manage to get out.

In reply to masa-alpin:
Looks like quite a lot of snow has survived the thaw (butresses are stripped mostly back but looks like easier angled ground, large ledges and gullies are still holding snow (and getting better with a refreeze). Temperature is dropping back to freezing now, more snow forecast with what looks like more freeze than thaw over the next wee while.

Looks like good building conditions to me.

http://www.winterhighland.info/cams/cairngorm-mountain/morlich.php

In reply to masa-alpin: Did Ring of Steall on Saturday and Aonach Eagach yesterday... Loads of snow but not much ice. The Ben was covered in whiteness...
Turf will be well insulated now so this slight thaw will do it good.
Wouldn't want to have been climbing

E

In reply to Brian Pollock: Thanks Brian, appreciate the tip off. I saw your pictures earlier - looked impressive!

Will have to wait until the next weekend now before I can get out. Hopefully some good consolidation happens between now and then!

On this note, does anyone know of an online forecast that also includes conditions of lying snow / ice? The SAIS avalanche forecast seems to but its not active yet; can't find any other info on other sites about winter conditions, apart from precipitation that day..?
Ta
By the way this forum will be very useful to me, but better if I can check all areas rather than some wee specific areas folks have been...

In reply to CurlyStevo:

It does say in the SMC guide Scottish Winter Climbs, that it is III,5 in lean conditions.

In reply to purkle: The MWIS forecast shows the predicted freezing levels which can be useful. Sometimes also states if they expect freeze/thaw and consolidation as well, but not always.

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Short Circuit - was the turf not mush under all that powder? Not convinced that we should be promoting ascents of such routes.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yes that's the crux and like all the slabby routes on Mess of Pottage, varies a lot in grade according to the build-up. Two years ago, I and others soloed Yukon Jack at Grade III but I know it's not that grade at present!

In reply to CurlyStevo: No that's deffinately not the crux! see my comment on the picture, the crux is the 3rd of the 3 short corners in the pitch just before you start heading up towards the slant, that is the first corner which is maybe tech 4 in lean conditions.

In reply to Jamie B:

Yes, the turf was unusable and this was evident from the approach. However, the lower section was easy angled enough to get up simply wading through snow with the odd rocky step (picking the path of least resistance and perhaps not the true line). The upper corner and groove were pretty much snowed up rock.

It didn't appear particularly reliant on turf to me, though as mentioned, it's likely we didn't take the true line in the lower half.

In reply to Webster:

I thought it was the third of three but happy to be told not.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:
I'm pretty sure you were right Andy as I remember the block at the top of the corner and using it to hook my axe over and you can see it in the first pic I linked. I also remember what the first corner looked like and I'm pretty sure that was the corner in the second pic I linked - that looks very different. I think webster is getting confused because of the change in conditions between the picture (ie well built up in a heavy winter) and the conditions he climbed it in (ie early season lean nick)

Stevo

In reply to Webster:
If you check this video you can see pretty clearly that what I said was correct, the build is just a lot more in the first pic I linked

youtube.com/watch?v=nB7UxK4VKSg&

Does anyone have any pictures from Sunday of people climbing on Mess of Pottage that they would be willing to share? We did Hidden Chimney Direct (no worries on the cleaning front...) and finished up the normal route. Out of interest, with no build up and quite heavy rime, what grade do people think the top pitch of Hidden Chimeny goes at? III, 4 maybe?

In reply to MrRiley:
Its definitely a bit harder with lean build up at the top. Its a route I've done numerous times as its one of the few that doesn't really rely on turf (there is some where it joins the slant but I doubt its crucial) so a good early season tick. that said its not as hard as the top of glovers or the haston line for example.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Yeah good point, I remember finding the cruxy corner on Haston Line trickier, but then again I did that very early season a few years ago now so it might have warranted the tech 5 grade. I thought Hidden Chimney under Sunday's conditions was absolutely superb!

In reply to MrRiley:

The top is a bit knowing how to do it. The moves below are harder. Did you climb the top chockstone direct; that's definitely harder?

In reply to Andy Nisbet: At the top chockstone we stepped up and right on to small ledges below a wall with horizontal breaks. With both axes torqued in a break at chest height I then bridged out left above the chockstone and pulled over it from there. Entertaining stuff!

In reply to Andy Nisbet:
"The moves below are harder"

Do you think? Where abouts? I've always found the crux around where you go up right a bit and left back in to the finishing short chimney section, the wider chimney below I've normally found pretty straight forward. Of course the direct start is much harder.

In reply to MrRiley:
snap When I first did it, it wasn't so early season and there was build up like a small narrow gully in the top making it easier so the crux is the bit around where you step left, however when very lean I found the next bit a bit harder.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Below what's normally the crux is a big flat stone, hollow behind (chockstone really). Below that is a step up with holds only on the left wall, then a step up with your left foot in a wide crack which you have to trust. As soon as you get any ice or build-up, this becomes much easier. Just my opinion of course.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Don't think the Haston line is anywhere near tech 5, IMO of course, makes you think for one move, then thats it, and its bombproof.

In reply to Gael Force: Yeah very true, I've only climbed a handful of mixed routes graded tech 5 and they have all been substantially harder than The Haston Line

In reply to MrRiley:

Haston Line I'd say easy IV,4 or even III,4. If you continue the line into the top pitch of Droidless then fair enough, tech 5 would be about right.

In reply to MrRiley: its a solid II/III for me

In reply to Gael Force:

+1

In reply to Andy Nisbet:
OK I guess everyone finds stuff different, that just felt like leading a bit of awkward vdiff climbing to me (felt as in felt the same given it was covered in snow and I had axes and crampons on), whilst the top section is more balancy and technical (for me anyways). Still I'm pretty sure you'll have the better balanced view on climbing grades than I do

In reply to jazzyjackson:
The only tech five mixed I've ever climbed is on hidden chimney direct and then I was seconding so I can't tell I do find the crux of the haston line quite hard (done it twice in fairly average sort of nick).

In reply to MrRiley:
Out of interest, with no build up and quite heavy rime, what grade do people think the top pitch of Hidden Chimeny goes at? III, 4 maybe?

I've climbed it lean before and found it very good value, III 4 about right. The direct start is a great pitch.

In reply to MrRiley:

I find it much easier if you don't bridge out left but just go round the corner.

In reply to the weegy:

Yes probably is, but only very lean and whether that's worth mentioning?

In reply to CurlyStevo: Yep i see it now, i concede! i take it all back (though my oppinion of the conditions related grade still stands)

In reply to Gael Force: as we have mentioned the tech grade is very conditions dependent, and as you say it is bombproof (with in-situ tat at chest height) hence the grade of III 5 - very safe with 1 move far harder than anything you would usually come accross on a grade III

In reply to Webster:

Dunno, I've done Haston Line in early season nick (i.e. no build up) and didn't seem anywhere near tech 5, just easy IV,4

In reply to masa-alpin: Deep powder snow on Ben Nevis, CMD Arete, Dorsal Arete and Biedan Nam Bien. Very difficult to make progress in some areas, and evidence of an avalanche was present in number 5 gully on Nevis. Very unstable looking cornice as well!

In reply to The Ghost Rider:


When was that please?

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Yeah, certainly not from a guidebook perspective. We want to be able to carry the book.

In reply to The Ghost Rider: when was this, deep powder even after Mondays big thaw?

In reply to Webster: Doesn't look like much up there at the moment!

http://www.visit-fortwilliam.co.uk/the-ben-nevis-webcam-fort-william-scotla...

In reply to masa-alpin: What kind of conditions are good for CMD arete? I'm planning on doing it this weekend. Whats the approach like for avalanches etc?

In reply to Red Rover: Next weekend even

In reply to Red Rover:

The better the walking conditions, the quicker and easier it will be. Very safe from avalanches, assuming you stick to the crest and don't go on any steep slopes collecting snow. But if the snow is deep and soft, you might be safe but it would be very hard work.

In reply to masa-alpin: Ok thanks, so the approach to and up CMD, as well as teh descent via the tourist path, is normally safe as well as the ridge itself?

In reply to Red Rover:

Pretty much, yeah.

In reply to Red Rover:

You would have to be careful in bad conditions going up the Ben after the Arete, but it would have to be bad. On the descent, if conditions are doubtful, stick to the path and don't go down the Red Burn. But normally no problem

In reply to masa-alpin:

We and several other parties abandoned Ledge Route and Tower Ridge on that beautiful last Sunday, becasue of the new deepish soft snow (and not 100% stable). That was our reason anyway. Instead we bashed straight up one of those ribs leading to CMD summit in the big blue sun. Those ribs were icey and very nice. The crest of CMD wasn't quite firm enough to make it fast, but almost!

Since then it's been hot!

In reply to masa-alpin: what do people reckon abut conditions in the cairngorms from Tuesday given the cold spell?

In reply to joe.91: It will need to snow again first (or pregferably after a day or 2 of cold)...

In reply to masa-alpin: forecast heavy snow monday and cold for the rest of the week!

In reply to joe.91:

Which forecast are you looking at?

In reply to masa-alpin: mwis and snow forecast

Just looking for an update, is *anything* remotely in condition at the moment? Looking for something to do tomorrow, easy grades.

In reply to joe.91: For mixed routes relying on turf you'd want the opposite scenario, a long freeze followed by snowfall as the snow would insulate the turf from a freeze.

That said, I don't have the experience to say whether 3-4 days overnight sub zero temperatures would be sufficient to freeze the turf in the Cairngorms at this time of year.

In reply to Relayer:

No chance in the Northern Corries tomorrow. Was up today for a stomp and although there are still some big snow patches about it was mild and soggy all the way to the top.

Maybe next week if this cold snap comes in

In reply to planetmarshall: aye well I'm after things thats don't rely on turf like fingers ridge so just needs a good amount of snow. Forecast heavy snow showers from monday and -6 at 900m, so sounds ideal!

In reply to joe.91:

And a hard frost to glue in all them shoogly blocks.

In reply to the weegy: Whats the best approach to CMD? The UKH route card says to go all the way up to the CIC hut then slog directly up the slope, I'm guessing thats a bad idea in winter, is it better to leave the CIC track early and head left up to the start of the ridge that CMD is on?

In reply to Red Rover

Yes. There is a path and it's quite obvious. You then go over the top of CMD.

In reply to estivoautumnal: Thanks.

In reply to Red Rover:


Going direct from the CIC is a bad idea at any time; it's a long grind up loose ground. I have no idea why the UKH route card and other guides suggest it, it's a seriously flawed suggestion. Taking the faint path up the north shoulder of CMD is far more enjoyable!

In reply to Relayer:


Looking across to Bidean and Stob Coire nan Lochain today, still quite a lot of snow on high northerly aspects, which has likely refrozen. You'd definitely want crampons if you were crossing these, but aside from Broad Gully it's unlikely that any climbs will be complete.

In reply to Red Rover:


Why would anyone want to stop at the hut? It's not as if you're going to be invited in for tea! It does act as a quite convenient piss-hub I suppose...

In reply to Jamie B: I wondered that myself.

In reply to BruceM: It was myself that you met just short of the narrowing, ended up not doing another route as I had the only headtorch.

It looked like the group bailing off tower ridge had a long slog ahead of them.

The team we saw on the Douglas Boulder climbed jacknife rather than cutlass as I thought.

In reply to masa-alpin:

A shot and few notes on Ben Nevis today here ! Not as stripped as I thought up there today and the coming weather should improve things a bit.
http://dan-goodwin.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/ben-nevis-conditions.html

In reply to Dan Goodwin:


I imagine that what's left will have firmed up nicely and provide some base. No. 3 is a good grade II in these conditions.

In reply to Jamie B:

Certainly a base building in the right places, this week should set things up a bit further. May take another look tomorrow, will post the findings !

In reply to Jamie B: Today, I walked up the Lost Valley, onto the Stob Coire Sgreamhach then Bidean nam Bian, down to Stob Coire nan Lochan, and back to the car via Coire nan Lochan.

There was no snow anywhere except Broad Gully, and that looked horribly soft and wet.

I heard from another walker that some folk climbed Dorsal Arete but I can't believe that there was good snow or ice to be had. It was very mild today on the summits.

In reply to jacobfinn:

By early afernoon it was below 0 at 900m in the Monadh Liath.

In reply to jacobfinn:

I was up a walk today. Broad gully only thing complete. A few teams on a completely black and unfrozen dorsal arête, and then death roping down broad gully.

In reply to Milesy:

Dorsal was completely unfozen last weekend, but buried in soft snow. From the other side of the valley it looked completely black to me too - some self delusion going on there!

In reply to Jamie B:

I walked the full rim of the corrie over and past the route itself and up to the summit. It was black. The gullies were all mostly soil and screw.

In reply to Jamie B: You've got a point re CIC-CMD. When I wrote that UKH route a couple of years ago that's just the way I'd always accessed the ridge, when coming from the Allt a' Mhuilinn side anyway. Last couple of times I realised the NW flank of CBD is far nicer. I'll amend the route when i get a chance

In reply to Milesy:
Were they climbing with axe + crampons, or just scrambling? I believe Dorsal makes a (probably unpleasant) scramble, although I haven't dared to try it myself given the number of loose blocks around.

In reply to Only a hill:

Crampons, no axes (I didn't anyway, I think some of the others had one out). The fin was icy enough that just boots would have been treacherous in places. It was definitely more on the scrambling side of things though. Still good fun.

In reply to Blackmud:

Also, thanks to the chaps who offered friendly advice about the ropes on the descent. It was my first time on a gully, now I know that that would've been a bad idea. Ta very much

In reply to Blackmud:

Out of interest, what was the advice and reasons given for it? Ta.

In reply to NottsRich:

Don't descend with half the rope each and a few metres in between because if one falls and doesn't arrest in time the other will be pulled off. Seems pretty obvious now but such is the life of a beginner.

In reply to NottsRich:

Death roping. Descending steep snow tied to your partner with a trailing rope.

In reply to Milesy:

A useful technique sometimes for experienced climbers looking after beginners. Broad Gully sees far more dangerous practices eg 'blind leap of faith' uncontrolled bum sliding into unknown snow conditions wearing crampons (sometimes into climbers coming the other way). Dorsal Arete is also madness if its not frozen: a detached block could easily kill someone.

In reply to Offwidth:

Which never involves a trailing rope. Least experienced goes first downwards with more experienced keeping rope tight behind them. Death roping isn't short roping.

In reply to Milesy: That was my understanding too, with about 1-2m of rope between the 'leader' at the back and the 'client' at the front. I knew there were different views on it so thought I'd ask. Just wondered what advice was given to the guy above.

In reply to NottsRich:

It was me that advised him and I could see they were beginners so I advised that with a dangling ripe between them while down climbing a gully if one popped off then even if the other braced or arrested the force generated when the rope came right would yank him right off with him

In reply to masa-alpin:

I'm thinking that for this thread to work it needs to be conditions info only otherwise the info you seek will be buried like wet turf under powder.

In reply to DaveHK:

And my very first post said, it would never work. Threads can never be controlled on here.

In reply to masa-alpin: sorry, maybe I should have put this one in here...?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=569659

In reply to masa-alpin: I'd be interested to see what today's cold and last night's snow fall has done for the hills?

In reply to euanryan: Pics from Ledge Route today. Some consolidated snow buried under the fresh powder. More snow now falling on much stronger winds. Turf under snow not really frozen anywhere I was today and water running under snow at 850m. A little rime above 1000m on eposed NW facing rocks. http://alanhalewood.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/plenty-snow-but-turf-still-not-f... Wild now. Strong winds and precipitation.

In reply to AlH: A strong team did Slab Climb today and said the turf on steeper ground at that height was pretty good- less snow on steeper ground giving less insulation?

Hi All, I am hoping to get a first route done for the season this weekend and was wondering if people think the gullies on The Ben are in (e.g gardyloo, tower gully, number two etc).

In reply to Robertgiddy: There is some firm snow at present and some soft rubbish over the firm snow or over rubble. Its impossible to tell from a distance what is what but nothing is particularly full (I could see a wee rocky step on No. 2 today and No.3 has some rock showing that often disappears later in the season). Its snowing again up there just now and will be very windy tomorrow and its hard to tell exactly where that snow will go but the gully's need time to build and certainly aren't in great nick yet. Just to get that far up Observatory Gully would entail an endless flog up powder covered scree.

hoping to get out this weekend and noticed climbs are being done in Sneachda and Lochan, is the turf frozen?

In reply to alex toomey:

Very likely

In reply to alex toomey: I've just got in from Savage Slit, and not all the turf is frozen so be careful, test every placement. The new snow has made the going heavy in places, though our tracks and those of 2 others will probably help. There is a lot of snow stuck to the rock, so no hassle from the ethics committee. Watch your ankles in the boulder fields, there are a lot of deep holes.

In reply to masa-alpin: Cha-No yesterday well rimed up, new soft snow in sheltered areas and exposed turf frozen.

SCNL was a mixed bag yesterday, plenty of unfrozen turf under powder but some of the exposed stuff where it mattered was good, and snow conditions improved higher up the crag as well. Snow sticking to slabs, but most of the steeper rock was pretty black.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Pretty good conditions on Creagan Cha-no in the Cairngorms today, with the crags rimed up and the turf largely frozen, although the freezing level did creep up above the crags later in the day.

http://goo.gl/AKZWAO

In reply to masa-alpin:

Lochnagar in great nick for mixed routes today too

Coire an t-Sneachda, Cairngorms was in good conditions today (Friday 22nd) for mixed routes. Turfs were well frozen (in Fiacaill Ridge at least), rocks well rimed. We saw a party in Invernookie, Fingers Ridge, Broken Gully (the visibility was poor all day except early in the morning).
Snow routes looked in poor condition, though. Even the top part of Goat Track was almost bare. Aladdin's Mirror is forming, but probably not yet in.
The snow level was below the carpark in the morning, and the walk-in was a pain on soft snow with a thick wind-slab surface. In that sense, I didn't expect there was so little snow on the crag. Nevertheless I heard it was better than yesterday. A fairly good track was made by the end of the day.
The temperature was below freezing all day in the corrie.
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone been up into Corrie Fee yet? There was ice forming in the chimneys a couple of weeks back when we went for a nosey, thanks

In reply to pebblespanker:

I'll have a look tomorrow for you. How's that for service!

In reply to franksnb:

Wondered up Curved Ridge on Buachaille Etive Mor with some friends today, what ice remains is lose and detached, snow is wet and losing structure. Snow on the summit ridges was compacted and may survive, some gullies have consolidated snow at 800m plus. But was very warm and in Fort William we have complete cloud cover at 18:00. Not good

In reply to masa-alpin:

Details of todays conditions on Ben Nevis are here as well as some pictures.
http://www.mountainmotion.co.uk/winter-courses/ben-nevis-conditions/

In reply to Removed UserRichard Bentley:

Nice one rich. Great blog

In reply to Simon Wells:

D'oh!

Oh well, saved me a 1000 mile round trip for nowt, cheers for the update.

In reply to Oldinio:


What he said ^^^^^ !

In reply to masa-alpin:

Does anyone know if the turf is well frozen enough on Lochnagar for Central Buttress to be alright just now?

In reply to franksnb:

Diamond, cheers mate

In reply to masa-alpin:

had a look in clova there's some ice in the gullys but a lot of running water, it would need at least a week of very low temps. some turf frozen very little snow.

In reply to masa-alpin:

I see some routes have now been done around Stob Coire nan Lochan. Does anyone know what conditions are like just now? Considering heading up next weekend but the turf was pretty soft on Aonach Eagach on Saturday so wondering if it's worth the bother.

In reply to Brian Pollock:

This morning it's cold and crisp, and if turf is anything like what we encountered on another high west-coast crag yesterday, SCnL could be quite good, although it's always a bit dodgy until loose blocks get frozen in.

However, temperatures are set to soar over Tue and Wed, so even with colder conditions forecast for Friday it may well be that we will be back to square one.

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Turf was frozen on saturday. It all looked a bit like this http://imgur.com/60vlzq0,pANNTAf

and

http://imgur.com/60vlzq0,pANNTAf#1

Pics courtesy of My Mate Mick

In reply to Jamie B:

Thanks both. I'll keep an eye on it over the course of the week.

In reply to Blackmud:

what route are they on?

In reply to franksnb:

That's Haston Line on Mess of Pottage, so unlikely to be representative of Glen Coe!

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Oops yes meant to say that that was coire an t'sneachda! Apologies!

In reply to masa-alpin:

So what has the recent warmth done to the hills? Anyone ventured out recently?

In reply to euanryan:

looks pretty bad on the web cams, I guess many of the high up major gullies are still there:

http://www.visit-fortwilliam.co.uk/the-ben-nevis-webcam-fort-william-scotla...
http://www.winterhighland.info/cams/cairngorm-mountain/morlich.php

In reply to euanryan:

Mild and miserable on Meall a' Bhuchaille last night. 11 degrees at Glenmore. Some small snow patches hanging in there but pretty much back to square 1 from a build up point of view.

In reply to DaveHK:

*tears*

In reply to euanryan: Don't give up hope! Winter lives in the Coires and easy Gullies of Ben Nevis and there were even some icey smears still about today. The base of the snowpack has survived on Ben Nevis and I was up on my front points on ice for much of No.2 Gully today. Harder stuff is not there but the really hard stuff comes back in quickly anyway and although the popular lower grade climbs like Green, Comb, No. 3 Gully Buttress aren't climbable they are far from stripped.
AND the light was stunning above the inversion today!
http://alanhalewood.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/amazing-light-and-giving-rat-wee...

In reply to AlH:

Wow, great light indeed!

In reply to Tom Last:

Was there much left on ledge route. Thinking of that for Saturday provided the bottom of number 5 doesn't get loaded. The two forecasts are a little contrasting on how much snow there may be.

Loz

In reply to uclanclimber:

I glanced into No.5 and the base was a bit broken but the upper basin is still full of now firm snow. The slab coming out go No. 5 was almost bare of snow now but there was plenty snow on the uppermost part of the ridge (photo on the blog above).

In reply to AlH:

Thanks for your reply, provided it doesn't dump it down today that might be a good shout. Weather looks ok tomorrow too. cheers

In reply to masa-alpin:

Looking at the Cairngorm Mountain webcam and it's all looking a bit bare. Has anyone been up to Coire an t'Sneacha or Coire an Lochain recently?

I'm hoping some of todays stormy weather could set things up for an early start tomorrow before it thaws again.

In reply to Brian Pollock: yeah mate I've been up and around schneachda and lochain over the past few days. Schneachda is bare, a few wee patches of snow on fiacaill buttress. Lochain really bare as well but with some snow on the great slab and approaches. Hells lum has some ice smears on it. Hopefully it all gets a good covering today.

We went to Ben and climbed Gardyloo Gully. Complete, but (very) thin and extremely icy all the way (I'd give V 4 for today's conditions). It was perhaps only the decent route in condition up in Observatory Gully (maybe Good Friday Climb was in? And Tower Scoop? -- We didn't see either, so can't tell. What I can tell is all the buttress was pitch black at least in the morning.). Observatory Gully itself was very bare and almost all the snow was icy. As soon as we hit the snow line (fairly high up), we needed to put on crampons. The temperature was consistently below freezing, -3degC at 1pm at the summit. The corries looked more white than in the morning on our way back, presumably due to frequent snowfall during the day (To be honest I can't tell how much it was, as we were battling against spindrift while climbing... It was certainly snowing during our descent).
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone think easy mixed/buttresses would be worth a punt mid-week anywhere this coming week?

In reply to Shaunmash:

I climbed Pygmy Ridge at lunchtime today and while it was in winter nick first thing, it was only semi-winter at lunchtime (thawing). Turf wasn't frozen either. But it was fun and the lads ahead of me started much earlier and can count a winter ascent (just in case they read this). Tomorrow is warmer so it's going to have to be properly cold again. Which is forecast.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:
We attempted Fiacaill Ridge in Sneachda. Though the temperature was below freezing, it was thawing by early afternoon. On the ridge the turf was frozen at midday, but was softened up by 2pm (so we backed off), both perhaps due to its exposed nature (it was windy today). Very little snow was there anywhere.
I bumped into a climber on our way back, who said had just done Savage Slit.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Lochnagar today, bad times

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1453560_10151824337361868_...

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Cheers Andy, that would have been myself and solar (Alex).

Andrew.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Given the lack of snow elsewhere there is a truely remarkable amount of the stuff in the east facing corries of Braeriach. Most of the grade 1 gullies in Coire Bhrochain and Garbh Coire Mor looked to be complete although the exits are steep and corniced in places.

In reply to DaveHK:

There was a lot in the East facing corries of Beinn a'Bhuird a few days back too.

In reply to planetmarshall:

We were the team on Deep Throat which was in good condition.

I have uploaded a couple of photos of crag view in Ben Nevis last Friday afternoon: http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/author.html?id=47754
Gardyloo Gully was in on that day, though it was rather an ice route than snow and a couple of grades harder than the guidebook grade. Photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alpiniste/11160288576/
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

I think i'm the guy you met walking back. Savage Slit was in great nic but everything was thawed on Sunday. No rime at all at T'Sneachda.

Photos here on a FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.202317096621574.1073741840.155412...

In reply to masa-alpin:

Don't forget to keep an eye on beta stream as the season goes on. Conditions updates from guides and climbers as well as multiple mountain forecasts.

http://beta-stream.com/home

Snow is back in Scotland!
Here is the shot of (I think) The Fara (911m) from Dalwhinnie this morning.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alpiniste/11390820273/in/photostream/
I am afraid a fair amount may have disappeared by the evening though (8 degC at the valley).

Cairngorms looked wild, according to the SAIS (my full respect to the guys who got out today!):
http://saisncairngorms.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/very-windy-with-snowfall.html
Masa

A team successfully made a snow-hole today in Cairngorms, reportedly!
http://talisman-activities.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/deep-snow-avalanche-pits-...
But I heard the turf was not yet frozen today Tuesday in Mess of Pottage in Sneachda.
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

A fair bit of fresh snow on the west over the last couple of days but no real riming and turf unlikely to be frozen, Milder and wetter today but going cold again tomorrow. Melt-freeze anyone?

In reply to masa-alpin:

If anyone is wondering about conditions around Glencoe, theres a few photos on my blog, all the winter ones were taken yesterday or the day before. http://roebuckmountaineering.co.uk/blog/

In reply to masa-alpin:

I was out today, on Ledge Route on Ben Nevis. Although it was thawing today, the long-term freeze-thaw cycles should help build the ice throughout the Christmas period.

http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/blog/

In reply to masa-alpin:

The MWIS outlook is for a lot, lot, lot of snow slowly building from now til after New Year

In reply to TheseKnivesMan:

It's snowing in Knoydart down to 200m as I type this. And it was quite windy last night in case anyone was wondering.

In reply to BnB:

Snowing heavily down to road level at Aviemore and the Cairngorm ski area road has been closed due to drifting snow! I'm off to check my local trails for x-country skis and to try out my new vertical ice pillar!!!!!
Happy days

In reply to masa-alpin:

Snowing down to the road in Glencoe, wet snow falling with an air temp of 0c.

In reply to Ron Walker:

What's with the ice pillar Ron?

In reply to CurlyStevo:


It's a dead tree that I've cut the branches and bark off and have now set a top rope on. It's now plastered white and in proper winter condition...

We've now had about 6 inches of fresh snow with the A9 temporarily closed at Slochd due to drifting! I had a wander round the forest tracks which now have quite deep snow cover though the ground underneath is unfrozen and very wet.

Hopefully it'll be freezing up high, with some of this snow falling and blowing into the right places for climbing.

In reply to masa-alpin:

how much of the old snow was still present before this new stuff came in?

I'm told a strong temperature gradient leads to the formation of a weak layer.

with the strong temperature gradient the old snow has experienced lately (if it survived) and the high winds accompanying the new snow what are peoples feelings about the avalanche risk in the next few days?

In reply to franksnb:

check the SAIS reports

In reply to franksnb:

Very little old snow in the climbing areas in the Cairngorms. The old snow is high on the plateau and in the Braeriach Corries on NE aspects. From the climbing perspective I'd worry more about unfrozen rock and turf. Having said that any big snow drifts or cornices will be soft and unstable! We were able to release very localised blocks of slab just by digging, never mind anything else!

In reply to masa-alpin:

There are some pictures of SCnL in Glencoe from today here.
http://www.mountainmotion.co.uk/blog/winter-climbing-glencoe/

In reply to masa-alpin:

Nice sunny day in Glasgow! Anyone further up north got info on conditions? Especially Glencoe area?

In reply to euanryan:

http://www.glencoemountain.co.uk/snow-report.html

In reply to smuffy:

Cheers for that hopeless reply...

What I meant was, has anyone been out at all and can give an idea of crag covering/gullies filling?

In reply to euanryan:

Check the post I put up earlier, apologies for not putting it in this huge tome of winter climbing....

Basically, crags are plastered but snow is dubious, gullies are loaded but snow is dubious. deep and wet low down, sounds like it's better high up (if you can get that far!!)

In reply to euanryan:


My educated guess is that gullies are very well filled indeed, with thousands of tonnes of avalanche-ready powder! Even buttress routes are liable to be a wade.

In reply to euanryan:

Was on Shelf Route on the buachaille today. LOTS of snow about. Took ages to get up to the route with some drifts around chest hight, also made challenging route finding to stay clear of loaded slopes on the approach. Plenty of large avalanche debris around.
Bottom line is that it's well plastered in wet snow, turf isn't frozen, and routes require allot of digging to get gear. Felt pretty warm today too with occasional snow showers in the afternoon.

Will post a blog later on - verticalfever.co.uk

In reply to masa-alpin:

Went up to Coire an T'Sneachda yesterday, after many days of storms we were pleased to find some routes in great condition, the weather was fantastic with little wind, clear sky and sub zero temperatures. We were able to climb the Haston Line on Mess of Pottage with good neve and snow ice. Spoke to a couple of guys who had been up Fiaciall Couloir and said they had to swim up the whole thing, wouldn't recommend the SW aspects still, see the SAIS report, there were huge amounts of snow built up in the gullies which will need substantial freeze thaw conditions to consolidate them. Other teams were on Honeypot, Hidden Chimney Direct Start, Fiaciall Ridge.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone been out and about yesterday or heading out today?

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone aware of snow conditions for ski-touring around the Ben Lawers to Glen Lyon area please?

In reply to masa-alpin:
Ben Nevis today, had to abort our initial objectives... http://www.masterplan-mountaineering.co.uk/2013/12/swimming-ledge-route/

There were at least half a dozen parties in Creagan Coire Cha-no today Sunday 29th. The temperature was just below freezing all day.
The Anvil Buttress was in good conditions with turfs frozen solid, whereas Arch Wall was to our surprise a lot more snowy. In Arch Wall turfs under deep snow were not frozen, presumably due to the insulation by snow, and cracks were devoid of snow, that is, once snow on top was cleared, damp and unfrozen cracks with no snow in them appeared - I guessed most the snow was drifted to there due to strong wind.
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

I don't know if it's worth anything regarding Meagaidh but the Monaliadth today was wet/damp until about 800m, above a bit more consolidated but still that surface crust that your feet drop down through. Western aspects had deeper unconsolidated snow. Annoyingly the whiteout lifted to give blue skies on the way down. Good to get out but what a mess the Garva Bridge area looks like with the pylon construction.
Great to get out between the blasts all the same.

In reply to masa-alpin:

skiing on cairngorm was very icy. quite a few teams out in sneachtdha (sorry). aladdins mirror icefall looked quite bare. cornices quite substantial.

In reply to smithg:

No wish to start an argument, but instead of saying sorry, why not just look up the correct spelling?

In reply to masa-alpin:

It was freezing above about 850m on Beinn an Dothaidh yesterday. Exposed turf was frozen and surface snow was hardening higher up but anything buried was soggy. The crags are building ice well but a good deep freeze would be nice. Probably all change again after last night's rain.

In reply to masa-alpin:

I climbed Ordinary Route on Central Buttress, SCNL, Glencoe today. It's completely plastered in snow, but there was still very useful ice and frozen turf throughout. Very little in the way of gear at the moment, with all the cracks being either iced up or completely buried. http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/2013/12/30/swimming-ordinary-route-cen...

In reply to KA:

Were the approach slopes hard going?

In reply to euanryan:

Not really, I was occasionally sinking up to mid calf, but it was by no means tough going.

In reply to masa-alpin:

I was out on Ben Nevis today, and climbed Tower Ridge. There was soft deep snow all the way up, so it was hard work, but there's a trail now so if anyone wants to follow it...

http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/01/quiet-new-years-day-tower-r...

In reply to masa-alpin:

We attempted to climb at Coire an t-Sneachda today, but were thwarted by the wind.
http://www.masterplan-mountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/wild-day-coire-tsneachda...

In reply to Foxy:
Great conditions on an teallach today with consolidated snow in the easy gullies. Bad weather now mind so may all change.
James

In reply to masa-alpin:

Back out again, this time on 'The Gash' on Bidean Nam Bian. Great route and in very good condition, with nice chewy ice, but again, very little gear as cracks well chocked with ice.
http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/02/great-ice-gash-iv4-bidean-n...

In reply to KA:

Did North Trident Buttress on the Ben yesterday. Snow pack a bit damp at the bottom, but improved on way up. Reasonable conditions, but very snowy. Cornice at top of No. 4 looked horrendous so used red burn descent (great conditions for that!). Much evidence of big wet slab avalanches around (and in the Coe the day before).

In reply to masa-alpin:
Anyone been up the Cobbler / Glen Coe of late? How was it?

Looking for a first grade III this weekend, recommendations?

In reply to aldo56:

No idea about conditions but the South East Ridge of the South Peak of the Cobbler is an excellent III and a bit of an adventure the first time you do it because the descent looks tricky (it isn't - but you won't know that until you've done it!).

In reply to TobyA:

Cheers Toby, sounds perfect!

In reply to aldo56:
We were up the south peak of the Cobbler on Monday. Lots of snow about, walk in was hard going, but the turf was soft and the rock was wet. Not in condition in the slightest...

Glencoe would be a better bet, Curved ridge on the Buchaille got a recent ascent I think?

In reply to euanryan:

Ah, not what I wanted to hear. Any recommendations grade III in Glen Coe?(I've done Curved Ridge so not that please.)

In reply to euanryan:
Any idea what the conditions were like at the top of curved ridge just now?
And is the decent route best to just head back down Curved Ridge?

(Have done both ascent and descent in winter before, just looking for up to date condition report / snow loading / avalanche info )

In reply to Pids:
Was definitely white on the drive through today but not what i'd call inspiring conditions. Can't comment on what the actual route would be like though.

For anyone else, from the small glimpse I got of the Ben from Caol today it looks to be holding a lot of snow.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Back out on Ben Nevis today, and the weather was great! We climbed Green Gully, which was in reasonable condition. The ice/snow on the easier angled sections could do with some consolidation, but the ice on the steeper bits was good. Don't expect many good ice screws though!

http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/04/bad-day-green-gully-ben-nev...

In reply to masa-alpin:

I was out on Lurcher's Crag today. Some of the main gully lines are pretty well iced, and there were quite a few teams out especially on Window Gully. Most of the ice I came across was pretty cruddy, but there's quite a bit of well consolidated snow high up - once you've got through the nasty crusty stuff lower down.

I was out on one of the buttresses, well frozen turf in general.

James

In reply to JamesRoddie:

Just read your blog. The weather has been minging for ages now! Some penance for the good years we've had before (or the months to come...?)

In reply to jonnie3430:

Certainly a big contrast with last December! Like you say, we've really been spoilt with some of the last few winters.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Out in Stob Coire nan Lochan on Saturday. North East aspects were loaded and broad gully looked like a no go making approaches questionable.

Scabbard Chimney was caked in what looked like fresh unconsolidated snow. Attempted Ordinary route which turned out to be much the the same but there was good ice to be found in places and more so higher up.

Finished up a narrow gully right of boomerang gully below the summit which was in excellent condition with consolidated snow and firm chewy ice in places.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Cobbler was very, very wet and not frozen at all today. Failure!

In reply to aldo56:

Do we know what Tuesday/wednesday looking like?

In reply to aldo56:

strange, from the conditions just over on Ben Vorlich I would have said the cobbler should have been great today? it was plastered in ice above about 800m with solid neve, and soft neve above about 700m. saying that I don't know how low the routes on the cobbler start? its summit surely would have been frozen?

In reply to masa-alpin:

Climbed Morwind on Aonach Mor today. Conditions on the route were good, but I wouldn't want to try and get to many other routes on the East Face with the current snow pack.

http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/05/aonach-mor-morwind-morning-...

In reply to KA:

Think we saw you on Saturday heading into Ciste. We went up to No.5 Gully Buttress... the avalanche debris from No5 Gully was pretty awesome eh? Some of the biggest I've seen in Scotland!

In reply to Simon Yearsley:

Looks like you had a great day too! That avalanche debris was quite awesome, not sure how wide it was at it's widest, perhaps 100m or so, with some huge chunks in amongst it.

In reply to masa-alpin:

South west ridge of the Douglas boulder today was a great choice. There was a lot of snow on the route but everything you needed was there. http://www.kirkhopemountaineering.co.uk/blog-1/

Mess of Pottage on Saturday was packed with climbers on Saturday - my friends counted 22 parties on or below the buttress at 9am ish...
On the other hands, other buttresses like Aladdin's and Fiacaill were pretty quiet, reportedly.
In Mess of Pottage, the turfs were frozen solid as far as I experienced, but due to thick layer of powdery snow and cracks filled with ice, the gear tended to be sparse and hard to find. In some routes, the ice on rock was formed all right in the lower part, whereas in some hardly any existed. In the upper part, there was even less ice.
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

Red Gully today:- http://mattsmithclimbs.blogspot.co.uk/

In reply to KA:

The fan split into three runs, covering about 500m in total. Huuuuuge

In reply to Simon Yearsley:

Hi Simon, saw your van in the car park.
Yep, the debris from No5 was the biggest I have seen for over ten years.
I took some piccies
http://www.mountainmotion.co.uk/winter-courses/ben-nevis-conditions/
Rich

In reply to Removed UserRichard Bentley:

How close to the CIC did they get? My one chance to stay in the CIC back in the 90s of course corresponded with horrendous weather and on the first morning I remember Alan Kimber who was in there with a client opening the door to look at a massive avalanche that had come out No. 5 in the night. He said to his client, "That's the closest I've seen it to the hut! Pack up, we're off!"

In my memory the debris were just a short stones throw away although I guess in reality it was several hundred metres!

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone hazard a guess as to what the temperature change today and predicted tomorrow will do to the snowpack? Glencoe especially?

In reply to TobyA:

The end of the debris was probably 200 - 250m from the hut.
It would take an awful lot of snow to endanger the hut as the lower bowl in Corrie na Ciste,( just beyond the wee rock bulge you walk over after leaving the hut ), is a large collecting feature. Of course, it is possible for the hut to be reached perhaps, but the hut has been there for 84 years and to my knowledge has not been reached by the toe of an avalanche.
What is more thought provoking with this slide is the runout zone extending well down over the normal route out of the corrie, well below were I suspect a lot of folk would feel fairly safe as they descended.

Richard

In reply to Removed UserRichard Bentley:
Is anyone planning to be out this weekend? The forecasts look like it'll be cold enough and not too windy.

The avalanche risk looks lowest in Lochaber and it's showing that it'll be cold there, but it'll be pretty blowy.

The avalanche forecast in the Cairngorms is worse, but the wind is lower, however it's a bit warm on Sunday.

Obviously that could all change as there's still a few days to the weekend.

Anyone got any suggestions for crags that are likely to be in good nick?

In reply to mattrm:

Rooms booked. Kit ready. This weekend is go. Thinking about trying Lurchers crag. Freezing level seems low enough and the avalanche risk is low in that direction.

Anyone been to Lurchers crag recently?

In reply to mattrm:

I was on Lurcher's on saturday. Quite a bit of ice about, but none of the lines looked very well formed and the ice was cruddy. Pretty warm and drizzly the last couple of days so I'm not sure Lurcher's will be your best bet.

In reply to JamesRoddie:

I'd been looking at your blog actually. Was planning on doing Pinnacle Ridge as well, which should be ok? Especially as it's supposed to freeze up over the weekend.

In reply to mattrm:

It might be fine if the turf is still frozen, or if it re-freezes at the weekend as it is currently pretty warm up there.

Good luck, hope you get something done!

James

In reply to masa-alpin:

Did anyone climb any of the easier routes in the Northern Corries today?

In reply to Shaunmash: 2 parties from Glenmore Lodge dug a trench up Hidden Chimney today. The crags are under a huge amount of snow and gear is hard to dig out. The trident Gullys are very, very full. The freezing level is coming down a little tomorrow but it may well still be a wade to get to routes and expect a lot of digging.

In reply to AlH:

Hidden Chimney was good today - lots of snow, varying from good nevé to useless crud. Top outs from some of the routes still collecting a bit of windslab, but a lot of the snow in the corrie has firmed up a lot, less so the higher you get.

Photos from today here.

http://glencoemountaineer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/a-dawn-solo-of-hidden-chim...

In reply to masa-alpin:

Went for a furtle up the Ben today; pretty good for walking around depending on how heavy you are. Snow accumulated on easy rocky routes is copious and crusty. Pretty unhelpful. Steeper stuff up high looks good though.

In reply to masa-alpin:

I went to the Cairngorms over new year. Check out the short video I made showing conditions!

They were decent, not amazing, but pretty good.

youtube.com/watch?v=Kbb6nloPIQk&

Enjoy folks!

Is anything worth doing in Glen Coe this weekend? I'm taking someone new out with the intention of doing a grade I gully. Thinking maybe one of the gullies at SCNL. I know it's not in great nick for proper climbing, but how do you reckon the easier gullies might be? Soft, crappy snow? Big cornices?

Ledge Route was good today on the Ben, I would imagine anything ridgey would be fun this weekend. Have fun.

In reply to Relayer:
Saw three large avalanches down twisting gully on scnl today. Also a few smaller ones down the central gullies. Thankfully no parties affected though it was a close call on the first one. So best to avoid gully lines there for now.

In reply to nikgoile:

Yeah we went up and had a look, saw the conditions,immediately thought 'f**k that' and turned around!

In reply to masa-alpin:

Some good conditions on Lochnagar today. A lot of nevé about though there was also a fair bit of crusty snow on Central Buttress. Lots of teams in the corrie, I saw folk on Eagle Ridge and Shadow Buttress A but I don't know where others were headed.

Photos here.
http://glencoemountaineer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/the-central-buttress-of-lo...

In reply to JamesRoddie:

There was a few teams on the stack up the black spout when i got there. Saw you taking photos down by the col and again after you had topped out. Cornice led to a change in my plans and I needed to be back in aberdeen so ended up doing a variation on the black spout.

Up and back in aberdeen by 2pm (8 hours) passed a few people still heading up the track when I was making my way down.

Plenty avalanche debris kicking about and cornices present on most faces.

In reply to JamesRoddie:

Nice photos James! Looks like you had a good day out. Those cornices are a bit large!

In reply to Paul Kinnaird:

Yeah the cornices were pretty big eh, I was half thinking about Raeburn's Gully but decided against it after seeing how banked out the whole corrie was. Did anyone get a look at/climb Raeburn's?

Glad you had a good day!

In reply to JamesRoddie:

There was a team on the face at the start of raeburns didn't see anyone in there. Plan was to do something quick in the southern sector or raeburns went with back up plan when I saw the cornice.

From what I could see it was banked out or snow/ice except for one of the choke stones, guide says the cornice can be avoided but thought better being on my own.

In reply to Paul Kinnaird:

Spoke to one team on the walk out who said they spent 3 hours digging through the cornice on Raeburn's!!! Also saw a team down climbing out of Polyphemus. Conditions in the steeper gullies can't have been much fun yesterday...

In reply to masa-alpin: There were six of us doing Raeburn's - snow was similar to the reports above (i.e cruddy above half height), and the cornice was definitely epic! Lots of excavation required.

In reply to masa-alpin:

I was out in the Cairngorms over the weekend and climbed The Runnel, Doctor's Choice & Pygmy Ridge, here's a quick blog:

http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/12/runnel-drs-choice-pygmy-rid...

In reply to KA:

I haven't climbed Doctor's Choice before - did it on Saturday. Curious what you thought of the conditions, Ken - the top pitch in the left facing corner seemed a bit of an anti-climax? Is it normally more iced?

Cheers,
Andrew.

In reply to planetmarshall:

It is reported to be harder with no ice, did it have good snow build up?

In reply to planetmarshall:

Conditions are very unusual (good!)at present. The top corner is normally the crux and even in the old days with big build-ups of ice, it was IV,4.

In reply to planetmarshall:
Hi Andrew, I had not climbed the route before, but I felt that yesterday it was very easy for the grade. I followed the line as per the SMC Guidebook, and where the various bits of tat led, and felt that the crux was a step back to the right on pitch 2, just to the left of the climber in the posted picture.

The first two pitches were very well iced and the last pitch was just a romp up consolidated snow, and you're right no more than grade 2.

Still, it was a nice route.

In reply to KA:

For what it's worth I'd have given both bottom and top pitches of Doctor's Choice (which I did on Sunday) grade 3 and the middle 4, so probably overall III/4.

In reply to masa-alpin:

I did the ring of Steall yesterday. There was lots of snow up high meaning the that devils ridge was challenging (verging on terrifying) for about 20 meters.

Well worth a visit.

Blog post: http://www.lupineadventure.co.uk/lupine-blog.html

In reply to Leeds Andy:

Nice one Andy, Heading up there on Thursday and thinking of doing the Ring of Steall. Cheers for the update.
Guy

In reply to masa-alpin:
I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to Scottish climbing - experience is limited to one bad weather day on Ben Nevis. I've done stuff in the Alps though so I'd be looking at trying grade III and IV climbs.

If travelling on Caledonian Sleeper from London, what areas do people recommend I should consider for this coming weekend?

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

The top corner (Doctor's Choice) is normally the crux and even in the old days with big build-ups of ice, it was IV,4.

I've done it as a snowed-up rock pitch; it might have sneaked tech 5 but only just. On that ascent the middle pitch was the crux, although I think the guidebook suggests going quite a long way left.

In reply to alps_p:


Northern Corries via Aviemore via ski bus. The sleeper is too late getting into Fort William to be an option.

In reply to Jamie B:


I remember going quite a way, and it being pretty awkward. Though judging by the tracks multiple variations had been taken.

In reply to planetmarshall:

My partner originally tried going straight out of the cave as per the photo - without usable ice this was desperate and a short fall resulted. We then went a little further left which was still hard! At the time I thought we were too high and too direct for a grade IV line.

In reply to masa-alpin:

A bit of an update on Coire na Ciste & the Douglas Boulder yesterday, plus Meggie on Sunday > http://lakelandascents.co.uk/2014/01/winter-climbing-ben-nevis-douglas-boul...

Crag shots of the crags in Loch Avon Basin - Carn Etchachan, Shelterstone, Garbh Uisge, Stag Rocks - taken yesterday (2014-01-14) are uploaded to my photo page: http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/author.html?id=47754
Also, you can see Stacan Dubha in this shot in my Flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alpiniste/11954694383/in/set-72157639772774066

The snow was overall hard with good neve. Turfs under snow were, however, unfrozen in places. Exposed turfs were frozen solid. Thanks to the hard snow, the walk-in from Cairngorm ski resort was quite easy.
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone got any idea how much todays thaw is affecting the norries? MWIS seems to suggest lots of melting

In reply to ebdon:

Freezing level is currently something like 1100 metres on cairngorm, Aonach Mor Weather station is higher and the freezing level will be above the summit of the Ben.

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?3&TIME=std&LANG=en...

Its hard to guess at what level its raining / snowing just now, possibly snowing from around 900 -> 1000 metres in the norries but hard to say and I think its set to get a bit warmer yet.

In reply to ebdon:


For easier routes, I think it will make it even better!

In reply to masa-alpin:

Had a fail of a trip to t-Sneachda today, could hardly stay upright in the wind. Bailed to Newtyle...

Would be interested to hear if anyone got anything done!

In reply to ebdon:

Creagan Coire Cha-no is on its way out at the minute, some easier routes still in winter condition. I am sure it will return swiftly with a change in wind direction though......

http://verticalfever.co.uk/2014/01/14/creagan-coire-cha-no/

In reply to masa-alpin:

Has anyone been into the Shelter Stone recently and perhaps have some pics?

Cheers, Guy

In reply to Wry Gob:

http://saisncairngorms.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/overcast-but-remaining-cold.h...

Looks pretty white!

In reply to Stevos:

This entry is two days old. The snow pack has improved since then.

In reply to masa-alpin:

SAIS suggests the snowpack is pretty stable at the moment http://sais.gov.uk
and the Met Office suggests that saterday will be rough with high wind and some snow in the western highlands but Sunday looking better http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/westhighland/westhighla...

If saterdays forecast is correct then would Sunday be unsafe due to fresh snow? Or will it all have melted by then?

In reply to Red Rover:

I wouldn't worry about it too much judging by the MWIS forcast. There's virtually zero avalanche risk currently so it would take a fair amount of fresh snow on Saturday to sufficiently heighten the risk. The winds are S to SE to be aware of potential windslab on N to NW aspects if there is a lot of fresh snow.

In reply to ebdon:

The thaw doesn't seem to have affected the corries much, some of the soft slab that was forming has been saturated. There was some debris at the bottom of Mess of Pottage today. The buttresses still holding lots of cruddy snow. We had hoped it would have made the snow slightly firmer. http://pjmountains.blogspot.co.uk/

In reply to PAJames:
I was checking the weather stations and it was quite a bit warmer for quite a bit longer over the west side (Aonach Mor) and I guess quite a bit wetter too! Things could be better over there.

This is from the sais lochaber page
"extensive areas of frozen snow making walking straight forward"
"The wet snowpack has now refrozen and is stable at all levels. Some localised areas of fresh snow are present at higher elevations but accumulations are not significant"

In reply to Wry Gob:

See Adam Russell's photo on FB (Greg is tagged). Looks good to me.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Pretty good conditions in upper Coire na Caime on Liathach today. I did Central Trinity Gully which was pretty firm with two ice steps.

Routes choices in the lower corries looked limited to mainly the big grade I gullies. Still a fair bit of ice visible on Poacher's Fall etc but it was pretty mild up there today until almost summit level.

The ridge traverse was good as well, conditions variable though - full cover of firm snow on a lot of the ridge but also areas of bare grass and rock.

James.

In reply to masa-alpin:
Very windy today in the Northern Corries, even in the car park. We made it to Sneachda but it was unpleasant for climbing and we assumed it would be worse on the plateau, so we bailed. Quite a few other teams did as well. Now scaling the North Face of Aviemore High Street. Apart from the wind and light icy snow being blown about, the walk in was easy, with good neve underfloot and occasional patches of ice. We didn't see much of the crag but looked fairly buried still. Take two tomorrow...

In reply to Misha:

So, really shit today is basically what you're saying?

It's frustrating, I had a Cunning Plan for tomorrow, but it really does look like a waste of my petrol and exit-visa

In reply to Tim chapel
Yes - grim.50-60mph, low vis, never saw Crag. Potentially climbable but not fun and going to be dangerous if it deteriorated at all and forecast was for winds to increase. Lots of teams bailing.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:



Was it not III/IV in the older guides?

In reply to philhilo:

Did Yukon Jack this morning, in very easy condition at the moment, felt more like a grade II romp with plenty of helpful snow. Pretty windy on the walk in but fairly sheltered on the climb!. Other teams on Haston line etc.

In reply to Ron Walker:


It's IV,4 in the Cairngorms guide but III,4 or III,5 (lean) in Scottish Winter Climbs. Allen Fyffe and I don't always agree but conditions make the grade vary more than what the authors choose, especially on Mess of Pottage.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone know the climbing conditions in the Glencoe or Ben Nevis areas? Any ice forming on any grade 3 or 4 routes for example?

In reply to Dave Bingham:

Wondering that same thing!

In reply to Dave Bingham:
Minus Face yesterday: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153739459795445&l=2ba9ebe549 More snow than ice, though there is ice there. Snow was fairly solid neve, sometimes good enough for an axe but mostly not. There were tracks up NE Buttress, a couple of teams on Ledge Route and Tower Ridge, we went up Minus 3 Gully.

In reply to philhilo:

I guess you guys turning round in 50-60mph winds and no vis must be locals? to us southerners that is a typical Scottish winter day!

Excellent conditions on easy snow routes in Torridon today with great neve and lovely dry rock on Lawson Ling and Glovers Route (II), followed by more great neve all the way up Fuselage Gully (bit thin over the plane wreckage giving an interesting but very short crux). Main ridge was in fantastic condition - saw a few crampon prints, but no other people.

Pretty sheltered from the wind in the coire with good views to Skye and the Western Isles. Cloud dropped mid-afternoon and rain was setting in as we got back to the road.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


I once started up The Lamp Direct (given V,6) and finished up the top corner of Doctor's choice in mixed conditions. This felt at least as hard if not harder.

In reply to Dave Bingham:
Saw no water ice in Glencoe today, nice firm snow ice on the ridges of SCNL and Bidean with rime on the rocks but all the burns running water. Vis was only a couple of yards right enough

In reply to Webster:
No, Birmingham! Just being soft/sensible. Wasn't pleasant. Yeah ok it's Scottish winter...

I was out on the Ben yesterday and got these views -

http://www.huntermountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/out-for-a-look-at-the-north-f...

And again today, but the views were pretty poor.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone been up the Ben today? Heading there for a couple of days and wondering what crags were looking best. Any without much digging for gear? How about some ice?

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


Sorry I was getting mixed up with Haston Line. Yes Doctor's Choice was III/IV. But that pretty much converts to IV,4. Which it's given in Scottish Winter Climbs. But it's given IV,5 in Cairngorms.

In reply to Dave Bingham:
and baileys walk….

Alan Kimber tweeted that conditions were mixed in Green Gully today and hard work on Castle Ridge. It was certainly tough going on Tower Ridge: http://alanhalewood.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/tough-times-on-tower-ridge.html (or maybe I'm getting soft).
The lower snow has ben through freeze cycles but higher up the rime on the rocks was airy soft and useful. Interesting that people seem to be saying better snow in Glencoe too which also backs up the sea that the high stuff still needs a thaw freeze to settle.

In reply to baileyswalk:

A couple of views of the Ben Today - Minus face looks plastered in snow.

http://www.huntermountaineering.co.uk/2014/01/refreshing-wml-skills-on-the-...

Plenty of ice about - but it might be under a lot of snow!

In reply to masa-alpin:

Easy gullies on Liathach in good nick. Poachers should be there after a few days freeze.

A west coast day in the northern corries today, wet to the pants by lunchtime
http://stewartmountainskills.blogspot.co.uk/

In reply to DaveHK:

No snow at all in the hills north off Ullapool. Autumn walking really.
Skiers were out in the corie na fethie reabhaich on Ben Wyvis yesterday. Snow level is very high 700+m
James

In reply to James Edwards:

Do you happen to know how the gullies on An Teallach are looking? Lean as well?

In reply to JamesRoddie:

The very easy gullies were probably still there from what I saw on the way to Ullapool from the road. The snow on the crag and the crag apron were very much reduced.
James

In reply to masa-alpin:

North East Coire of Beinn An Dothaidh had snow on ledges but not on faces today. There was a team on Taxus and it looked like Haar and Cirrus had complete snow, but I have no idea what the ice underneath was like. Turf at the same altitude on the other side of the coire was unfrozen.

Here is the shot of Creag Meagaidh taken today (2014-01-19). https://twitter.com/masasakano/statuses/425000522446151680
In short, the ice in any route looked thin from the lochan.
At the lochan, the temperature must be above freezing, though I did not measure, this afternoon, and it was raining.
Masa

In reply to masa-alpin:

Flake Route (Bidean) was amazing yesterday - almost completely climbed on ice. The final 'tech 6' pitch (Raeburn's Chimney) turned out to be grade IV ice, with ice plastering all surfaces above 1000m.

In reply to RDE:

Good route. When I did it, Raeburn's Chimney didn't seem tech 6 under normal conditions either.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Out on Beinn an Dothaidh today, turf well frozen on about the second pitch of our route (some bad route reading had us going up the buttress bewteen Haath and West Buttress, knarly!) but first pitch was slightly softer. Solid, enjoyable neve most of the way up, and extremely well bonded at the top, flash backs to the alps...

Having said all that, the walk-in was wetter than, well, a really wet thing. Not pleasant!

In reply to euanryan:

Meant to add, there was evidence of some fairly large avalanches down the main buttress gullys, assuming from collapsed cornices as they were pretty big but looked like they'd broken at somepoint.

In reply to euanryan:

Any photos?

In reply to Scomuir:

Of the debris? No, not really. A couple of our snaps show stuff visible in the background but that's all!

In reply to masa-alpin:

Conditions today for "Bidean Nam Bian" Glencoe.
Basicaly minging absolutaly minging, if I jumped in the loch I wouldn't be any wetter! Yesterdays tea time snow turned to rain overnight and hammered it down all night. At 08;30 this morning it was raining sea to summit and didn't clear till around 10:00 Cleared just long enough to entice me for a ridge walk to check out conditions, then around 12:30 started raining/sleeting again and continued all day. So had a walk up Ant-t-Sron and along the ridge past Stob Coire nam Bieth and onto Bidean summit. Snow line proper starts at around 650m but is wet and saturated right through. above 750, last nights snow is lying on top of the old snow (which is extensive) but the new stuff is soggy and varies in depth from around 4cm to maybe 30cm on N to West slops depends on aspect (wasn't going to check to far), and is very wet up to around 950m where it firms up slightly and its started to add to the cornices around the which have sagged, some collapsed during the night, but are building again. Snow was falling as opposed to rain/sleet at about 1000m, with the freezing level at 15:00 this afternoon at around 1100m, wind was westerly but veered WNW on the return. To Sum up today was shite with wet snow underfoot and white out on top. On the up side the pack with be well consolidated if it gets a few days freeze. Tomorrows temp forecast looks good, but with more precipitation and wind. For the moment the further east the better I recon!

In the coire an t'sneachda yesterday. And we climbed the mirror direct, short pitch, deep wet snow, lots of spin drift, wet ice, windy, some buffeting, got 3 screws in so climbable just lots of spin drift cascading on us for entire pitch, we shouldn't have been there, but got it done.

In reply to euanryan:

Sorry, should have been more specific. I meant of the cliff, but it doesn't matter now. The forecast isn't too appealing for this weekend

In reply to Scomuir:


Again.
It's getting me a wee bit doon

In reply to pass and peak:



I'm always pissed off how little i get out these days but your post reminded me that sometimes i'm glad to be stuck at home watching the telly.

In reply to JohnnyW:

dont tell me that!

i have a train for aviemore on friday and 2 days of guiding booked!

it does get me down too

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


On the contrary, maybe not plan A or plan B but even a frustrating plan C day out on a storm bound hill still beats the hell out of festering in da hoose watching the box. Whaurs yer spirit of adventure?

In reply to aujayeb:




Don't stress too much. The freezing level is low on Saturday / Sunday and while there will be a bit of a breeze and a fair bit of snow around, I'm sure the guide will be able to find somewhere safe to take you.

In reply to aujayeb:

It's just the game we play. I'm in Glasgow and keen to climb loads, but the weather has been mainly minging since early December. If it was easy I suppose it wouldn't have the challenge...

In reply to jonnie3430:

I prefer the challenge of the climb not the challenge of actually being finding conditions to climb it in the first place.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Went out up castle ridge yesterday, conditions were quite good, neve all the way pretty much. However did see 3 quite big avalanches come down to the right of us from South Castle Gully and off the north east side around Carn Dearg Buttress. Looking up from The North car park this morning and the snow level has dropped to about 600m. Was going to attempt Tower Ridge tomorrow but after having a look at the avalanche reports may re-think our plan….

In reply to aujayeb:

There's hoofing great amounts of snow about but there's still stuff to get at safely.

In reply to Murko Fuzz:

Not going to go anywhere now. Oh well.

In reply to masa-alpin:
Was in t'sneachda today, climbed The Genie. More about conditions in the coire here........

http://verticalfever.co.uk/

In reply to masa-alpin:

I was up in the NW Highlands over the past 5 days. Here's a report:

http://www.applemountaineering.co.uk/blog/

In reply to KA:

Thanks for that Ken, I know the guys you were with. Glad they all had a good time.
Jon

In reply to Joak:


It died the day i signed for the fecking big mortgage to pay for the fecking hoose for the wife and fecking kids.....roll on X Factor! ;-(

In reply to masa-alpin:

Glen Coe yesterday - climbed Crowberry Gully on Buchaelle Etive Mor. Snow lower down was rather soggy, but once in the gully itself was fairly well consolidated neve. Very little ice and what was there was brittle.

Rain was falling on the summit, and as we left the pub the air temperature was 8 degrees.

In reply to masa-alpin:

A few pictures from the first day of the Glenmore Lodge winter skills weekend in the Cairngorms. http://cragandsnow.blog.com/2014/01/25/winter-skills-course-day-1/

In reply to masa-alpin:

I wa thinking about booking a Scottish mountaineering course in mid to late feb. Just wondering if the conditions are good enough to make it worthwhile?
Cheers
CC

In reply to Confused Chimp:


There is simply no way of knowing what it will be like by that time. But mountaineering is less conitions-dependent than climbing, so the course will run.

In reply to Confused Chimp:

Conditions are potentially great. Just need the weather to improve.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


Totally agree, the big crags seem to have huge build up and still need few more freeze thaw cycles and then we will have awesome conditions! Storms are fairly normal in Jan, just have to know where and when to go, "work with what the mountains give you" Ps posting from safety of my bed at home in Newcastle listening to rain.

In reply to masa-alpin:

A few tit bits from the BMC international winter meet based at Glenmore Lodge this week:

We went up Fiacaill Ridge today with a view to abbing in to a route but found that the snow slopes on the side of the crag were icy neve so just dropped down a snow slope and traversed round below the crag. Soloed the first pitch of something (good neve / snow ice, go anywhere type terrain) and ended up below Invernookie so did that. Good neve and rock all iced up but not much gear! A few other teams abbed in to do routes in that area. Weather a bit gnarly but bearable.

The snow slope below the crag looked like wind scoured icy neve so probably ok to walk up from the bottom.

People elsewhere in Sneachda today, not sure what routes but walking in from the bottom. So not necessarily a deathtrap as the avalanche forecast suggested but obviously need to make that call on the day and probably big differences between different aspects. Below Fiacaill Buttress is NE facing and the avalanche forecast did say that aspect would be least bad so that makes sense.

Other people were at Cha No today, lots of routes done.

A few teams went to SCNL and did various routes there, approaches were fine apparently.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Heading up to the CIC hut over the weekend and wondering if anyone can recommend anything at around V6 that is likely to be in?

Ice or mixed is fine.

If none of the classic ice routes are in condition I was considering Tower Face of the Comb or Gargoyle Wall for a mixed alternative. Any advice on conditions for either would be appreciated.

In reply to masa-alpin:
Lots of snow on the Ben but good climbing to be had 'in the right places'. Route II Direct not one of those places - dodgy cruddy snow ice, got spat off at the start and gave up on it.

All ice routes snowed under so will be great in March! CIC hut cascade forming but not climbable. The Shroud looked like it had touched but very thin, again could be good later.

In reply to masa-alpin: I did Deep South Gully on Beinn Alligin today. Warmer than forecast so the snow was pretty damp, and didn't reach the freezing level until the ridge crest. Great route though and full of character!

In reply to JamesRoddie:

Great route isn't it!

Thinking about a trip to Beinn Bhan this weekend, thinking that may avoid some wind and snow. Was wondering if anyone knows what the routes are looking like, particularly thinking of March Hares Gully.

In reply to Robertgiddy:

Has it been cold enough? I really doubt it mate

In reply to Robertgiddy:
Was done earlier this week in dodgy mixed nick with very little gear. Didn't sound great.

In reply to Robertgiddy:

Done on the BMC internaional meet, so??

In reply to masa-alpin:

Anyone out on the ben today who knows what conditions are like please?

Went out to Beinn Dearg today in surprisingly good weather. Climbed Emerald Gully but it wasn't in great nick, but I'd guess that the other gullies on the face should be climbable as Emerald usually comes into condition later than the rest.

In reply to Oldinio:

My mate did Cutlass on the Douglas Boulder. His photos make it look VERY wild weather.

In reply to Oldinio:

http://www.huntermountaineering.co.uk/blog/

Wild in Lochaber again and more to come. Further N and W is less buried.

In reply to masa-alpin:

I was out in Arrochar today climbing Chockstone Gully and Great Gully. Photos and conditions report on the climbnow.co.uk blog.

In reply to TobyA:
Yeah, the winds were pretty strong in the morning, so we rapped off after the 3rd pitch (all hard climbing) from an insitu belay/rap-anchor/tat. Oddly enough the winds did seem to doie around midday, contradicting the forecast...

Oh well, it was still a great day and a great climb in good company...

And best of all, no japanese-us-english party ahead of us, so no 3 h wait on the belay before the crux... :grin:

In reply to masa-alpin:

A few photos from up in the Cairngorms today... The snow gate was closed so a long and windy walk up the ski road! http://cragandsnow.blog.com/2014/02/01/a-windy-day-in-the-cairngorms/

In reply to masa-alpin:
No winter conditions to speak of south of the border so made the journey north for a couple of days with Richard from Mountain Motion. Wed (Douglas Boulder) and Thurs (Stob Coire nan Lochan)........had a great time

a few images of the conditions especially South, Central and north Buttresses on SCnL

http://paulhorsmanphotographer.blogspot.co.uk

Very unstable snow on the Ben today. Big avalanche has came down castle gully with debris down to the stream. Backed off ledge route as 2 small avalanches came down number 5 gully. Considerably warmer than yesterday but with strong winds.

In reply to masa-alpin:

Did 'The Cul' on Cul Mor yesterday. Just frozen enough but little ice so the LH variation was taken. I'd still recommend it with that as it only misses out about 10 feet of climbing.

We won on the weather front as although it was very windy on the approach the route was sheltered and winds died through the day.

Kipped in the van with the intention of climbing on Liathach today but it was so wild we never bothered. Looked like the rain / snow limit was very close to the summits and 5 degrees in the carpark.

In reply to DaveHK:

We are planning on heading up to Beinn Eighe tonight, do you think today will have stripped the Far East Wall or was it not that bad?

In reply to Lamb:

Really hard to say. It was definitely snowing on the tops but only just. It doesn't take much to strip that crag but then it doesn't take much to bring it into nick either. What were you thinking about trying?

In reply to DaveHK:

Was considering Kami-Kaze, driving from Aberdeen tonight, so fair trip, what would you say? Worth the gamble?

Cheers
Craig

In reply to Lamb:

I've just looked at the forecast and it would be the winds that worried me rather than the snow tomorrow! Although I suppose Kami-Kaze is sheltered getting to it could be a trauma.