UKC

In this video we get to see Alex Megos' complete ascent of Chris Sharma's First round, first minute, 9b, at Margalef, which he climbed on the 31 January last year after five days of effort.

I asked Alex if there was anything he'd like to say about it.

Puhh...how about
Super psyched...

Read more

In reply to UKC News:

Unbelievable how short it is! The moves must be incredibly hard compared to a stamina 9b (most other 9b's). He made it look pish, as always.

(Also, should read 31st December, unless the Germans have a different calendar to us?)

In reply to UKC News:

Why doesn't the route top out?

In reply to aln:

Why 2 dislikes with no comments? I asked a question.

In reply to UKC News:

What an animal.

In December I almost ran over his belayer with the hire car while he was working the route at night and shouted the customary "venga!" out the window . Didn't know it was him until I bumped past him the next morning and thought "that child looks a lot like Alex Migos...".

So I would like to claim some small credit in helping his ascent

In reply to UKC News:

Brilliant. And great to see a video totally free of any cuts or gimmickry for a change.

In reply to UKC News:
When's somebody going to get the sit-start ticked without the bricks? :P

J

In reply to orge:



At 9b, you'd think he'd clip the second draw himself too.

In reply to aln:


And here's the answer: Sport routes almost never do. It allows a chain to be placed for convenient descent by lowering off without your rope getting knackered running over the top of the crag.

Can I have a like please?

In reply to Robert Durran:

>Sport routes almost never do.

I know. From this video it looked like they may as well have.


No.

In reply to scope:


How do you know he didn't? It's fairly common to clip a bolt or two and back back down to the ground for a rest.

In reply to UKC News:

Such a great looking route, follows a line and the moves look really good. He looked pretty comfortable all the way through as well. Great climbing.

In reply to scope:


I'd be VERY surprised if he didn't do that, down climb, rest then kick off again up the route.

ugh 'COME ONNN ALEX COME ONN COMEONNNNN COMEMEEENEN'

In reply to UKC News:

You kinda think for a minute, that doesn't look so hard, then you see Sharma working on it... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JCqe96jtExU&autoplay=1

In reply to Fraser:
I don't think that is the normal way of climbing sports routes. Indeed Dave Macleod got criticism from the locals for his style of ascent of his only F9a (A muerte) for going up a fair proportion of the route clipping the rope in and then down climbing before climbing through in one push (with the rope above him for some of it)

I think on sports routes its customary to stick clip the first 1-2 bolts before setting off.

Its a good effort from Alex but that is an awfully big pile of rocks he stands on to start.

In reply to aln:


I didn't dislike your post, but when I read it, I wasn't sure it was a genuine question, or I might have answered. Thought you might be making a point, trad climbers top out, why don't sport climber, or something like that.

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Agreed for us mortals, but I think most of the 'big names' generally clip the first one or two themselves then down-climb.

Re the stone plinth to start, there seem to be a few well known routes which require this - I vaguely recall Iker Pou on 'Demencia Senil' doing the same.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

The nature of the barrel shaped rock and rapid soil erosion at their base means that many routes at Margalef require to reach the starting holds from a pile of rocks (whatever the grade, 7a or 9a), and are graded accordingly.

If they didn't, most of the place would be still undeveloped with world class routes above a rubbish and impossible 1m start!

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Have you been to that part of Margalef? The way it's set up means that the rock piles aren't uncommon...

In reply to Jus:

The videos also don't do full justice to the angle its at. I saw the ones of Sharma working it and the holds look rubbish and it looks hard; then I stood underneath it...

In reply to Fraser:
"Agreed for us mortals, but I think most of the 'big names' generally clip the first one or two themselves then down-climb."

Do you have a link regarding this?

If this is considered to be essential (rather than just stick clipping the first couple of bolts etc) then why was it considered cheating for Dave Macleod to climb up the first 5 or 6 bolts of that F9a and then return to the ground before continuing?

I'm pretty certain the ethics of down climbing to the ground are completely different for general sport compared with UK trad. TBH I think its a less good ascent for UK trad but apparently consensus differs to my opinion.

In reply to UKC News:

Anyone else unable to start the video? Tried it on Chrome and IE but the video just appears as a still with no way of starting it.

Cheers,
Paul

In reply to PTatts:

didnt work on my iphone but fine on my work pc.

In reply to UKC News:

What a bloody annoying shouty woman.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

No, I'm afraid not off-hand, but I've read about this tactic several times, I'll try and find a link. It might also have been seen in the Ondra documentary 'The Wizard's Apprentice', but I can't quite remember. Maybe someone else can confirm.


I wouldn't say it's "essential". I think, as was mentioned on another thread recently, it's more of a trad thing that has been used fairly widely. Having said that, I've belayed Dave a few times on hard sport routes too when he climbed up the first couple of bolts, clipped them then down-climbed to rest before the giving it a redpoint shot. Some people took exception to this strategy which he apparently used on A Muerte; for what reason, I don't know.

Edit: just found this which is interesting:
https://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.8a.nu%2Fforum%2FViewForumThrea...

In his opinion, Ondra states only clipping the first bolt is 'legit'. Unfortunately, it doesn't make reference to climbing initially to pre-clip, then downclimbing.

In reply to Fraser:

as long as you don't weight the rope i don't see what the problem is.

In reply to Fraser:


This might be true in the UK but I don't think it is across Europe. The ethic of not climbing to the ground comes from competition climbing where as I understand it, it is against the rules. From the British perspective, the vast majority of climbers are probably more familiar with trad and so we've adopted the attitude that it is considered fair play to climb to the ground. In other countries, other styles have been adopted. I personally don't see that either method is better. Climbing hard routes is a great achievement, and in the most part, pre-clipping or down-climbing aren't going to make a huge difference. One of the nice things about climbing is that there aren't clear rules and different people will go about things differently.

Amazing effort on what is clearly a cutting edge route.

In reply to Fraser:

I think the reason that the first two bolts were pre clipped on First round is that the second bolt is so close to the first and both close to the ground.

Pre clipping generally is with a clip stick infact adam says " For me, it's only correct to pre-clip the first bolt if it is for safety reasons" how would it be safer if you had to climb up to clip.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

dear god i hate this site for opinions and comments like these. why should it be a problem to stand on a pile of rocks to reach the start holds? perhaps a sika jug should be plastered on to make you happy? preclipping a couple of draws is fine, a bit like protecting a belay before you leave the stance- it makes sense. my growing opinion of the ukc and a large number of people on it is that of armchair warriors and hair splitters.

why can't we just say well done and thank you for some rare raw video and decide next time we go sport climbing to not clip the first draw because thats what we prefer to do- not pick holes in other peoples achievements.

In reply to tom84:

The penny drops...

In reply to tom84:
I probably climb outside atleast as much as you when I'm not injured perhaps more......

Regarding the pile of stones it just seemed a bit odd. Apparently this is normal climbing at this area - so now I know. I guess the reason I commented is generally in the UK this would be considered cheating so I wanted to know more.

I was justifying Alex's pre clipping of two bolts but I guess you know that?

In reply to Mike Highbury:

it dropped a while ago, its the first time i could be bothered replying. i think punters like us should be banned from commenting on ascents harder than we are capable of...

In reply to tom84:
What a ridiculous elitist stand point.

He does climb the route very nicely. For me his climbing style is nicer to watch than Ondra's.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Surely if you're puzzled about a pile of stones and don't know whether that's normal or not, a neutral question would have been more appropriate than:

In reply to AJM:
Not really, its an honest observation to an usual situation. I can't say I've seen top climbers climbing off such a large pile of rocks before on cutting edge high profile ascents, have you?

As others pointer out this is considered normal in this area and takes nothing away from a very impressive ascent.

In reply to UKC News:

Standing on a pile of stones is quite common on crags where there has been significant erosion since the first ascent, a good example in the UK is Dinas in South Wales where ground level has dropped 2-3 feet.

A few years ago I stood at the bottom of FRFM. The route looked incredibly steep on atrociously poor holds. Just starting seemed virtually impossible. Alex climbs the whole route really smoothly and given the route was Sharma's nemesis project for quite some time I think its an amazing piece of climbing by Megos.

The whole debate of pre-clipping the first couple of bolts and starting from a pile of stones is just ridiculous and justifies no further comment!

In reply to xyz:

Indeed. You could climb up to clip the second bolt then jump down again.

In reply to xyz:


Not sure what the fuss is - it's just a bit of harmless climbing trivia. I don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from a very impressive ascent.

In reply to AJM:


Yeah its a shame it looks not so steep.

But overall I think the film maker did a really good job on this. There's none of the constant changing camera angles and position that we get on so many climbing vids and no lame music covering up the background sounds. You almost get the feeling you're actually there, standing on the ground watching the ascent. It's unpretentious and real and you get to see every move from start to finish. I like the field of view but admittedly at that distance it means you don't get to see the holds. I suppose you can't have everything though.

In reply to xyz:


Definitely impressive by Megos. I think he first tried it on something like his thirteenth day on and nearly completed the next day. In the end though it took him 5 days in total - still pretty impressive for 9b though.

It was Sharma's nemesis because he tried it for a long time with a bad sequence. I think once he used a better sequence he did it fairly quickly. Such is the way with hard FAs.



They are both significant ethical issues so don't see why you think it's ridiculous to debate such things. One of the best uses of climbing web forums I'd have thought.

In reply to Robert Durran:


Got one from me, though it still doesn't explain why aln got dislikes for asking a question.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Well, yes, as it goes. It's not usual but it's also not that uncommon. Barrel shaped sectors do occur. Given the number of photos of that sector at margalef both of cutting ascents and the more mundane I'm surprised you've never seen pictures of it at that very sector before. And to start off by saying "well, its impressive but".....

Edit: I've just watched it again - are we really calling maybe a foot of stones a huge pile these days? Sharma, incidentally, basically jumps to that "good" hold from the ground.

In reply to stp:

There are just a few bits of the video of Sharma on it, especially for a second or two of the epictv bit where they show sjarmas video whilst reporting on ondras ascent, where you can really get an idea of how steep it is.

In reply to AJM:


That's really interesting. Of course Sharma is a lot taller than Megos so it will be less of a jump. But then you could say by not jumping you are missing out a key move, the most dynamic move on the route. A pile of stones is a form of aid, but it's become an acceptable form of aid. It doesn't damage the rock like chipping and can be easily removed for those who don't wish to use it. Some routes have slings hanging down to pull up on to the rock so it's less extreme than that. But since stones weren't needed for the F.A should they be used on subsequent ascents?

In reply to stp:

Sharma's toes touch the ground (just) when he reaches for the start hold. Megos' start, with the booster cairn, is barely different in this regard... in my opinion.

In reply to stp:


In the first part of the clip he reaches from the ground (although, god forbid, theres a stone on the ground!). In the second he has what looks like the same lower hold as megos to stabilise just jumping up to the good hold. In bouldering you'd say it was a french start. So actually, you've no idea how he did it on the final redpoint.


I suspect that one could say that, but I suspect that people who say that getting to the start holds on frfm is a key move have missed something about the rest of the route!

I find it difficult to take seriously as a viewpoint, I have to say. I mean, its a hold they can get 2 hands on, at either an arms length or slightly above an arms length from the ground. You can see from the video of Sharma doing it that it's an incut flake. A "key move"?

In reply to stp:


If short arses are allowed to cheat by building cairns, are us tall people allowed to even things out by digging holes for bunched up starts?

In reply to Robert Durran:


Well done, Rob! I suspect that somehow it's you that engineered the direction of the thread to arrive at this very point...!