UKC

28m.

Rockfax Description
A fine route which is one of the best of its grade in the Peak. Very sustained, with a harder move to reach the roof. Climb a flake to a peg. Step across left to another flake (high or low), then pull up with difficulty (peg above) to below the roof. Pull over to gain a bucket then tiptoe right across the slab. Climb up a groove to the top and a tree lower-off. © Rockfax

FA. Brian Moore, J.Ballard (aid) 1969. FFA. Gabriel Reagan, Al Evans 1976.

Ticklists

Rockfax Peak Limestone (2012) Top 50, World Graded List, Peak Rock/13/The Limestone Revolution, Ultimate E3 ticklist, Definitive *** Peak Lime, Paul Dearden's classic rock climbs

Feedback

User Date Notes
Katya 31 Aug, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: Mike, like ted I agree with most of what you say. The 'just don't clip it then' argument is flawed though, and has been discussed too many times already... When I led the route earlier this year, I was paying attention to the bolt placements, and I can assure you that 1, 2 and 5 were easilly clippable without going off line, simply by reaching out left for 1 from the initital crack, clipping halfway along the traverse (at the rest) by your feet for the 2nd. I nearlly chopped them then, but then found out it was your project and I thought I'd speak to you about it first - simply havn't seen you since then... You ask, 'are we being dictated to how we should climb in Britain?' - well I think the answer is yes. There would be outrage if somene were to come along and bolt up projects on the Chee Tor changing the character of surrounding routes. In fact I think there is a 'no more bolting rule' there already. Just because there is already signifigant bolt development on Two Tier doesn't mean that the whole crag is up for grabs (though nearlly...). Think about the impact on other routes, especially ones as good as Mad Dogs. My previous comments weren't about a conflict between trad and sport, I enjoy them both equally, and fully appreciate the work you have done helping to create the wonderful resource that we now have down there. I just think we need to preserve the handful of high quality trad routes that we have.
 
Show beta
βeta: Mike, like ted I agree with most of what you say. The 'just don't clip it then' argument is flawed though, and has been discussed too many times already... When I led the route earlier this year, I was paying attention to the bolt placements, and I can assure you that 1, 2 and 5 were easilly clippable without going off line, simply by reaching out left for 1 from the initital crack, clipping halfway along the traverse (at the rest) by your feet for the 2nd. I nearlly chopped them then, but then found out it was your project and I thought I'd speak to you about it first - simply havn't seen you since then... You ask, 'are we being dictated to how we should climb in Britain?' - well I think the answer is yes. There would be outrage if somene were to come along and bolt up projects on the Chee Tor changing the character of surrounding routes. In fact I think there is a 'no more bolting rule' there already. Just because there is already signifigant bolt development on Two Tier doesn't mean that the whole crag is up for grabs (though nearlly...). Think about the impact on other routes, especially ones as good as Mad Dogs. My previous comments weren't about a conflict between trad and sport, I enjoy them both equally, and fully appreciate the work you have done helping to create the wonderful resource that we now have down there. I just think we need to preserve the handful of high quality trad routes that we have.
teddy 29 Aug, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: I respect your comments and agree with a lot of what you say. However, your ideas about bolts that can be clipped on trad routes do not add up. The whole point of a trad route is to climb without bolts. So if there is one to clip and you are in 'extremis', you always have the option to clip it and escape in safety if you have to to get out of danger. This takes away from the experience of trad climbing where the aim is to put yourself in a position of having to rely only upon your wires/ friends and climbing prowess. The fact that you might overextend yourself and 'run it out' with no way of putting in gear would spoil the experience with the mere fact of a bolt being available, even if you don't clip it. Think about it and try to respect British trad climbing heritage before you bolt.
βeta?
Show beta
βeta: I respect your comments and agree with a lot of what you say. However, your ideas about bolts that can be clipped on trad routes do not add up. The whole point of a trad route is to climb without bolts. So if there is one to clip and you are in 'extremis', you always have the option to clip it and escape in safety if you have to to get out of danger. This takes away from the experience of trad climbing where the aim is to put yourself in a position of having to rely only upon your wires/ friends and climbing prowess. The fact that you might overextend yourself and 'run it out' with no way of putting in gear would spoil the experience with the mere fact of a bolt being available, even if you don't clip it. Think about it and try to respect British trad climbing heritage before you bolt.
Katya 18 Aug, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: Well, it is one of the best E3 trads route in the peak and its a shame its been compromised by this project. You can clip 3 of the bolts (1, 2, and 5) from Mad Dogs. There is plenty of rock to make indifferent 7C's out of down there, there's not so many 3* E3's in the Peak. A Fairer solution would be for the project to start up MD on trad gear, then break out on the new line, thus leaving the origional route unchanged, if it has to be there at all. Better still the bolts should go, and a Peak classic that is still very regulary climbed left well alone. Was discussed here - didn't seem to be much support for the bolts... http://www.rockfax.com/forums/t.php?t=59567
βeta?
Show beta
βeta: Well, it is one of the best E3 trads route in the peak and its a shame its been compromised by this project. You can clip 3 of the bolts (1, 2, and 5) from Mad Dogs. There is plenty of rock to make indifferent 7C's out of down there, there's not so many 3* E3's in the Peak. A Fairer solution would be for the project to start up MD on trad gear, then break out on the new line, thus leaving the origional route unchanged, if it has to be there at all. Better still the bolts should go, and a Peak classic that is still very regulary climbed left well alone. Was discussed here - didn't seem to be much support for the bolts... http://www.rockfax.com/forums/t.php?t=59567

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High E4
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High E2
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High 6a
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High 5c
Mid 5c
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High 5b
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Votes cast 40
Style of Ascent
Lead
Followed
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Route of Interest

Sleeping Sickness

Grade: E3 5c ***
(Gardom's Edge)
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