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18m.

Rockfax Description
Mild for HVS but excellent. Grovel onto the jammed block, place a few cams and make the obvious move onto the slab - easier said than done. Finish up the slab and elegant crack above. © Rockfax

FA. Joe Brown 1948.

Ticklists

Top 23 UKC Climbed Climbs, ROCKFAX Eastern Grit (2006): Top 500, Steve Ashton's 100 Classic Gritstone Climbs, Froggatt to Black Rocks (BMC) - The Grade List, Peak Gritstone S-HVS **+, Peak Rock/6/ The Emergence of Joe Brown and Don Whillans, 'Soft' Peak HVSs., Joe Brown's Three-Star Grit-List, ULMC Classics, Ultimate HVS ticklist, Joe Browns Shops 50th Anniversary Celebration Routes List, The best the UK has to offer for mere mortals (apart from the lakes cos its always wet), Rockfax Eastern Grit (2015) Top 50, The Froggatt to Black Rocks 3 Star Pilgrimage, Definitive *** Peak Grit, The Ultimate SUMC Ticklist, Memorable Climbs, Eastern Grit 2 star plus (HVS/VS/HS), Consolidation and developmental path to VS, Definitive Eastern Grit top 50- 2001, 2006 and 2015 editions, The Gritlist, An attempt at a definitive list of Joe Brown's FA/FFA in the Peak District, Peak District Grit Graded List, Peak District Grit (2020) *** List, Eastern Grit Trip: The Best Of The Proposed Crags., Post-Covid19 Eastern Grit Targets.

Feedback

User Date Notes
JayW 5 Jul Show βeta
βeta: A brilliant climb. A variety of ways of getting on top of the block. You can get a silver camalot into the two finger pocket before entering the crack. Thoroughly enjoyable.
 
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βeta: A brilliant climb. A variety of ways of getting on top of the block. You can get a silver camalot into the two finger pocket before entering the crack. Thoroughly enjoyable.
elizabethporter 14 Jul, 2019 Show βeta
βeta: What an awesome route!
βeta?
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βeta: What an awesome route!
cheeky 5 May, 2007 Show βeta
βeta: My first lead of HVS and was a good choice given the good protection of the crux with 2 cams under the lip. Gaining the block was easy even though i'm short and the finishing crack is a nice finish!!
 
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βeta: My first lead of HVS and was a good choice given the good protection of the crux with 2 cams under the lip. Gaining the block was easy even though i'm short and the finishing crack is a nice finish!!
roberto18 21 Apr, 2007 Show βeta
βeta: Was my second HVS lead, found the crux move easy, I'm not that tall but if your short and flexible you should do the move easier than any tall guy.I thought the hardest move was getting onto the block. 3 star route!
 
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βeta: Was my second HVS lead, found the crux move easy, I'm not that tall but if your short and flexible you should do the move easier than any tall guy.I thought the hardest move was getting onto the block. 3 star route!
Ropeboy 19 Nov, 2006 Show βeta
βeta: Pleasant solo.
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βeta: Pleasant solo.
aulda 23 Aug, 2006 Show βeta
βeta: Did this last night in the fading light and tested both my cam at the lip and my second by taking a tumble off the crux. Both held and the added adrenelin got me over the crux, though more than slightly unstylishly! Rushed the slab and crack to give my second half a chance of completing the route before twilight fully set in. Benefit of doing it in the dark - no baying crowds!
βeta?
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βeta: Did this last night in the fading light and tested both my cam at the lip and my second by taking a tumble off the crux. Both held and the added adrenelin got me over the crux, though more than slightly unstylishly! Rushed the slab and crack to give my second half a chance of completing the route before twilight fully set in. Benefit of doing it in the dark - no baying crowds!
Glen 31 Jul, 2006 Show βeta
βeta: A route everyone should have a go at - it's just such a laugh! Personally I found the crux was getting onto the block in the first place. The jamming crack at the top is lovely too. P.S. I'm not sure why people think the cam/hex at the lip is bad - if you seat it properly it doen't get much better.
βeta?
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βeta: A route everyone should have a go at - it's just such a laugh! Personally I found the crux was getting onto the block in the first place. The jamming crack at the top is lovely too. P.S. I'm not sure why people think the cam/hex at the lip is bad - if you seat it properly it doen't get much better.
Wilbur 10 Jul, 2006 Show βeta
βeta: Worth HVS and 5a for the awkward sketchy block mantle and the rock-over that follows. I also 'benefited' from a boisterous audience!! thought the top crack was tough but then i can't jam for toffee...
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βeta: Worth HVS and 5a for the awkward sketchy block mantle and the rock-over that follows. I also 'benefited' from a boisterous audience!! thought the top crack was tough but then i can't jam for toffee...
Duz Walker 9 Jun, 2006 Show βeta
βeta: Bosh! Face rubbing nonsense to mount the block then a minute or two of ickle cam fiddling as I worked myself up to THE move. Then in a flash it was over. Real easy HVS if you can get your heel on and rock baby!
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βeta: Bosh! Face rubbing nonsense to mount the block then a minute or two of ickle cam fiddling as I worked myself up to THE move. Then in a flash it was over. Real easy HVS if you can get your heel on and rock baby!
Big Steve 11 Mar, 2006 Show βeta
βeta: Superb route, tricky crux with a great crack to finish, shame the crack isnt longer really
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βeta: Superb route, tricky crux with a great crack to finish, shame the crack isnt longer really
Burns 8 Sep, 2005 Show βeta
βeta: Great route of mixed styles. Excellent.
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βeta: Great route of mixed styles. Excellent.
Richard 7 Sep, 2005 Show βeta
βeta: One of my favourite routes. I love every bit of it.
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βeta: One of my favourite routes. I love every bit of it.
Souljah 24 Aug, 2005 Show βeta
βeta: My first HVS lead. Was a bit awkward getting onto the block but the left h/side is the best way on. then a No.3 cam and a big reach with right leg onto the lip I had Right hand on the bulge and my Left used to matle my way up and rock over onto my right leg, then race up to the crack to slam some more gear in, a tricky exposed move 2nd from top to get up the crack. Ill be bragging about this one for a while!
βeta?
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βeta: My first HVS lead. Was a bit awkward getting onto the block but the left h/side is the best way on. then a No.3 cam and a big reach with right leg onto the lip I had Right hand on the bulge and my Left used to matle my way up and rock over onto my right leg, then race up to the crack to slam some more gear in, a tricky exposed move 2nd from top to get up the crack. Ill be bragging about this one for a while!
alj 9 Aug, 2005 Show βeta
βeta: My second HVS lead. LOVED IT!! Getting onto the block - I think being a shorty (5'2") is an advantage - you don't get pushed off by the overhang. Standing up is a challenge though! Pulling over the lip - agree with other comments it feels like it will never go but if you keep cranking it is a gorgeous rock over! I then found the unprotected slab and the evil crack the scariest bits!! Swore at my belayer all the way but loved every minute of it!!
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βeta: My second HVS lead. LOVED IT!! Getting onto the block - I think being a shorty (5'2") is an advantage - you don't get pushed off by the overhang. Standing up is a challenge though! Pulling over the lip - agree with other comments it feels like it will never go but if you keep cranking it is a gorgeous rock over! I then found the unprotected slab and the evil crack the scariest bits!! Swore at my belayer all the way but loved every minute of it!!
Albie 31 May, 2005 Show βeta
βeta: Giggled all the way up, even as I fell off the lip on my first attempt. Grinned like a kid with an ice cream when i got to the top.
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βeta: Giggled all the way up, even as I fell off the lip on my first attempt. Grinned like a kid with an ice cream when i got to the top.
Iggy_B 25 May, 2005 Show βeta
βeta: How did Tody's Wall lead Quien Sabe? ?!
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βeta: How did Tody's Wall lead Quien Sabe? ?!
Northern Mountain Monkey 23 May, 2005 Show βeta
βeta: I reckon it's about VS 5a if your 6'4'' like me. It led Quien Sabe? two weeks ago which felt much harder. I climbed onto the block from the left with a nice reachy move. Great route. NMM
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βeta: I reckon it's about VS 5a if your 6'4'' like me. It led Quien Sabe? two weeks ago which felt much harder. I climbed onto the block from the left with a nice reachy move. Great route. NMM
Ander 15 Jul, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: Tip top move, over the lip. The ultimate rock over. The top crack provides some very well protected fun moves, particularly the top. I'm not sure I agree with Jonathan- the cam looked fine to me. If you want even better security you could even stitch a couple of them together.
βeta?
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βeta: Tip top move, over the lip. The ultimate rock over. The top crack provides some very well protected fun moves, particularly the top. I'm not sure I agree with Jonathan- the cam looked fine to me. If you want even better security you could even stitch a couple of them together.
Gripped 3 Jul, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: My first HVS many years back. A baying crowd adds incentive!
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βeta: My first HVS many years back. A baying crowd adds incentive!
shaun walby 12 Jun, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: Fun climbing at froggatt... (the block 4b)(the lip 4c) lead to a severe top out,a good fun climb with bomber pro all the way.Very very good fun and enjoyable, consider it like the onlookers do....a bit of a laugh. One of the few climbs ive found were been a short ass helps (getting onto the block)ripe for a down grade VS4c
βeta?
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βeta: Fun climbing at froggatt... (the block 4b)(the lip 4c) lead to a severe top out,a good fun climb with bomber pro all the way.Very very good fun and enjoyable, consider it like the onlookers do....a bit of a laugh. One of the few climbs ive found were been a short ass helps (getting onto the block)ripe for a down grade VS4c
Reds 9 Mar, 2004 Show βeta
βeta: Once saw someone do the route who had obviously been told about the heel hook - only problem was they used the wrong leg - very entertaining and ups the grade somewhat!
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βeta: Once saw someone do the route who had obviously been told about the heel hook - only problem was they used the wrong leg - very entertaining and ups the grade somewhat!
r@bag 1 Jun, 2003 Show βeta
βeta: just put your right foot by your right ear - a lot easier than it sounds. really good fun, I think the audience adds to this enjoyment. gets the adrenaline going! worthwhile
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βeta: just put your right foot by your right ear - a lot easier than it sounds. really good fun, I think the audience adds to this enjoyment. gets the adrenaline going! worthwhile
Monk 28 Apr, 2003 Show βeta
βeta: I found the "crux" fairly easy. Getting on to the block was a bugger though! Absolutely brilliant route all the same.
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βeta: I found the "crux" fairly easy. Getting on to the block was a bugger though! Absolutely brilliant route all the same.
withey 25 Apr, 2003 Show βeta
βeta: By the time I seconded it the crowd of laughing climbers had dissipated fortunately. However there were still a few of my mates around, and I lost all dignity on the crux! I ended up mantling it, but only by singing American Pie.
βeta?
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βeta: By the time I seconded it the crowd of laughing climbers had dissipated fortunately. However there were still a few of my mates around, and I lost all dignity on the crux! I ended up mantling it, but only by singing American Pie.
Mark S Davies 27 Feb, 2003 Show βeta
βeta: Why is there a picture of some gumby top roping this classic 3 star route?The crux move has gear right next to you, surely - VS 5a
βeta?
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βeta: Why is there a picture of some gumby top roping this classic 3 star route?The crux move has gear right next to you, surely - VS 5a
Paul Boardman 17 Sep, 2002 Show βeta
βeta: A great variety of climbing in sutch a short space! Mantels, heel hooks, laybacks, padding up a slab and then the final, glorious jamming crack! Wow! Definately worth three stars! In Reply to Budge - of course there's only a couple of moves, it's only a HVS and the moves are quite hard I think.
βeta?
Show beta
βeta: A great variety of climbing in sutch a short space! Mantels, heel hooks, laybacks, padding up a slab and then the final, glorious jamming crack! Wow! Definately worth three stars! In Reply to Budge - of course there's only a couple of moves, it's only a HVS and the moves are quite hard I think.
Robo 27 Aug, 2002 Show βeta
βeta: What a great route. Worth every bit of three stars. I notice the picture here has as many people laughing and pointing at the leader as I had at on my lead. I did get a round of applause when I rocked over onto the slab witha great roar though. Loved it. Great jamming on the top crack, too.
βeta?
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βeta: What a great route. Worth every bit of three stars. I notice the picture here has as many people laughing and pointing at the leader as I had at on my lead. I did get a round of applause when I rocked over onto the slab witha great roar though. Loved it. Great jamming on the top crack, too.
Budge 21 Jun, 2002 Show βeta
βeta: I was a bit disappointed there are basically only 2 moves on the route which is a bit disjointed and lacks unity, very pleasant but not worth 3 stars.
βeta?
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βeta: I was a bit disappointed there are basically only 2 moves on the route which is a bit disjointed and lacks unity, very pleasant but not worth 3 stars.

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High E1
Mid E1
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High HVS
Mid HVS
Low HVS
High VS
Mid VS
Low VS
Votes cast 653
High 5b
Mid 5b
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High 5a
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Mid 4c
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Votes cast 627
Votes cast 623
Style of Ascent
Lead
Followed
Soloed
Toproped
Alt Leads
Bouldered
Not Set
Onsighted
Repeated
Flashed (β)
Dogged
DNF
Redpoint
Ground Up
Not Set
Route of Interest

John Peel

Grade: HVS 5a ***
(Dovedale)