UKC

UKC Fit Club week 402

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 AJM 30 Nov 2014
Link to last week's thread: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=603252
UKC Fit Club is not a substitute for the training diary but to use with (or without) it as a motivational tool for all.

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502

The following training article by Alex Barrows is the bible for training the four main "energy systems" specific to climbing:http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.com.es/2014/02/training-for-sport-climb... with information about scheduling a training regime to peak in time for a trip/competition can be found here: http://ukbouldering.com/media/pdf/periodisation.pdf

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity, noting goals, successes and failures and to swap ideas.

Anyone interested in starting is very welcome but you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits to help achieve your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity
Psyche video of the week: vimeo.com/63611753

I think the final Portland list for 10/11 jan was looking like:

> ## Definite - wild horses couldn't drag me away
AJM
Mrchewy
Hms +1

> ## Probably coming
Kevster
Curious Yellow
Nick R
mattrm
Dandan+some
Just Tintin +1

> ## I'll come if it's sunny

AJM - the day of judgement has come
Kevster - must have been frustrating not to be able to get into the flow. Did you get to Brean?
Nick Russell - academic job in London? Hope Chulilla goes for you soon. Opens the door to many a locals eliminate linkup
hms - good progress on Chulilla. Anything done in the week, or was there just too much shizzle going down?
Exile - definitely need to be building in enough rest. I was feeling wiped by the end of this week...
IainRUK - ouch! Hope you're on the mend...
riddle - how did the comp you mentioned go then?
mbh - night running sounds like a lot of hard work, but then I guess it's either that or get fast enough for the entire run in daylight!
mrchewy - I had a pair of instinct slippers which did me very well. Still wear them now and again down the wall. Maybe once I run out my currently massive stash of shoes I'll buy another pair
mattrm - enjoying the Moroccan cultural experience but less sure about the friction and solidity!
Joughton - Antalya is good, you'll have fun. Ally knows all the soft touches!
Dandan82 - nice one on the comp. coaching plan sorted?
Creedence - the only 7a I did in the CB was l'os at Gandia, which is really good but fairly beefy climbing and not the easiest at the grade.
williemiller - good job on the 6c. I think you've just got to build the training load gradually, and remember that at your limit you're working hard - you shouldn't be able to do it for hours on end, else it wouldn't be your limit!
Ally Smith - bad luck on the elbow. Sounds like a good assessment though.
Humperdink - top job. Well done sounds like a good fight!
 Nick Russell 30 Nov 2014
In reply to AJM:
> Nick Russell - academic job in London? Hope Chulilla goes for you soon. Opens the door to many a locals eliminate linkup

No - finance job in Oxford. I've turned it down, though that line of communication is still open if I change my mind... Looking more seriously at academic positions now. Had another go on Chulilla today, resulting in a nasty flapper. Looks like I'll be taking the RH pocket with middle two if I go back next week.

M - Gym. They have this monthly challenge, November was holding a lockoff (chin above bar). Took the lead in that (89s) but apparently somebody equalled it later in the week.
T - Uni training at Redpoint. Had them doing 4x4s (which I did too, of course). Needed a couple of rest days after that.
W - Rest
T - Rest
F - Gym.
S - Portland, Cuttings. Quick tick of "live by the sword" (7a+) - quite sequencey - and a few easier routes. Battle of the day was on a 6a... must have been climbing like a punter, it's not even voted as high in the grade on here!
S - Brean. Tried last week's new beta on Kraken - so much nicer! Pulled a flapper off my index finger on Chulilla, which kind of put an end to that session.

I should try to go to the gym the day after climbing, not the day before. Chulilla felt harder this time, though on my repdoint attempt I did get one move higher than last week. I've got to learn that the holds don't get any bigger if I try to shift my grip on them - I just pull skin off.

2014 goals
Sport: 8a. Best RP: 7c
Trad: Some more E4s including solid-at-the-grade onsight(s). Attempted: 9, clean onsight: 1 (+3 others I feel I've 'succeeded' on, one way or another)
Trad: Staffs NIAD. Hahaha, had a go. Failed due to a "navigation" error.
Running: Don't get injured, more mileage than last year. 381/416km down. Currently out of action with dodgy knee.
Swimming: Enter some competitions, get some 'benchmark' times. 58.69 100fr*, 26.98 (26.3*) 50 fr, 1:12.34 100 bk, 31.12 50 fly*, 1:09.58 100 IM
*Relay splits


Short-term goals
  • Get the knee better
    Action plan: stretch legs morning and evening, roll ITB when at gym or TCA, build strength with squats
  • Chulilla (7b+) at Brean
    If the skin heals and the weather plays ball and I remember how to try hard, this might just be achievable
  • Local sport routes 7c and above (or onsights 7a+ and above)
    I'd be surprised if I tick another route at this level before the end of the year
  •  Kevster 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    A poor week for me, pretended to climb on tuesday, missed getting out doors this weekend so drunk too much beer 2 nights in a row.

    Thats it for me.

    Local wall is becoming no challenge, I will have to try others for a while I think.

    Kev.
     hms 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Thanks Andy. Managed to get some stuff done, but not a v intensive week as I knew it wouldn't be. Am I now allowed to say shizzle at my age? Is it too down wiv da kids? Anyway...

    M - taxi service for D1 so no cycle commute.
    T - ditto. UCR in evening. Way too busy - couldn't get on what I wanted when I wanted so pace/flow all wrong & got piddled off.
    W - cycle commute. Fingerboard in evening.
    T - cycle commute, then on to UCR. Copying shamelessly from Dandan82, had a session with Robin O'Leary. Didn't think he worked me that hard but I was so utterly tired next day! Interesting stuff - I need to be more dynamic (no cries of 'I told you so' please Andy), but more precisely I need to sink down low, commit then do the moves with belief rather than come to full lock, have a think and then go. And on steep stuff I need to twist from my hips not my knees. I await the video footage with some trepidation!
    F - visiting parents, Long street walk - 3+ miles.
    S - returning from parents. Longish street walk, 2+ miles.
    S - Uphill with Garrouli. Clip to clip on Living Dead, then TR go which I accidentally got it clean. Reworked the lower crux then went for a lead but came off on the top crux as I couldn't remember what to do and went too high to link into my seq going left. This was about 2 moves off the final flake, so v close indeed. Was short of tie/skin to have another go. Lovely sunshine, verging on too hot. Hope to return v soon.

    Interesting week. This next one could be a bit compromised too due to car trouble.

    Nick - I'll email you about Brean/Uphill.
    OP AJM 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to hms:

    Just think how much money you'd have saved if only you'd listened when I told you so Enjoy living dead? Feels a lot better in good conditions, that wall - I remember the difference between a sunny summer evening and an overcast breezy one being absolutely staggering.

    Looks like if the weather plays ball I'll be around bristol/cheddar/wye area hoping to climb on the Tuesday and Thursday of the week following this one - the 9th and 11th I think it is. If any of the Bristol locale FC contingent are around, let me know?

    A good week for me.
    - cycled 4 times, although a double puncture Thursday evening meant I didn't cycle Friday as I was tired and couldn't be bothered fixing the bike.
    - Got to the wall on Tuesday and Wednesday - ticked off a few problems here and there but mainly focused on power endurance laps. Feeling fitter for sure, was doing or nearly doing the yellow several times in a session and then trying to continue back along the grey each time after a shakeout and getting maybe 15 moves along it.
    - went again Friday, feeling tired so kept it fairly short and just ticked off a few problems I'd not done including at least one I'd been stuck on before.
    - Saturday I did no training but spent too much money on a very shiny bike for May.
    - Sunday was assessment day. Lots of interesting things picked up on, some not terribly surprising but some very much so. Can expand if anyone apart from me gives a crap but at the moment I'm typing from the van and its bumpy so I can't be arsed essay writing.
    - went for a brief stroll down Cheedale with the last of the daylight too. Got quite wet on the section under the Cornice!
    - Should be getting a plan sometime next week, probably starting when I get back from my mini break the week after next. Should give me a chance to get into it and hopefully sort out any tweaks to level/load/etc in time to really hit the ground running in early January.


     Exile 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Thanks for doing fit club Andy. bit more rest and a few early nights this week, feel better for it.

    Aims:

    Autumn: (Soft) 7b RP(?) and be fighting fit for the winter season as soon as it kicks off.

    Winter start with VI 7

    Spring second 7b RP

    Summer quick build through E1 / E2 to get on some more E3s and consolidate at the grade

    Long term aim, (18 months or so?) HP Exeguy (E6 6b) at Trowbarrow

    M: 1hr road run (winter endurance)
    T: 1hr 30 min wall (strength training) going well until I twanged a finder
    W: 1hr fell run (winter endurance)
    T: Rest
    F: 45min continual dry tooling (winter technique and ARC)
    S: Rest
    S: 1hr TR reps on an E3 on Red Wall, Trowbarrow (Aero power - shouldn't be doing this yet but good to mix it up.) Finger felt ok

    Weight: Not sure but feel heavy

    Some early nights and taking one session out od the week worked wonders.

    Really thought I'd done some serious damage to my finger on the woody, but with regular ice and massage it looks like I've got away with it as it felt ok today. A good reminder to warm up properly.

    Good to get on real rock today even if it was 'TR reps until boxed' session.
    In reply to AJM et all: Hello again,

    I'm FINALLY back training. Hopefully this Winter will be better than last tear when after a good start in Nov/Dec things petered out.
    Anyway things should be different this time since for the first time in nearly twenty years of climbing, I now:
    A) live within walking distance of a climbing wall (Oxford).
    B) have sorted out an annual membership.


    STG find some partners for routes
    MTG climb 4x per week consistently for the nexth few months
    LTG tbc

    M - Boulder
    T - Boulder
    W - rest
    T - Boulder
    F - have the car breakdown and miss the Andy Kirkpatrick lecture!
    S - Boulder
    S - chill...
    Jamming Dodger 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM:
    Had a disastrous week (in terms of exercise etc). By Wednesday I was still suffering from DOMS after a Howgills run on the Saturday so the week was already off to a lazy start. Then two-day anniversary celebrations midweek meant FOOD! Total gluttony breakfast, lunch and dinner (and afternoon tea)...
    SO, 5am tomorrow, myself and Mr B are back on the wagon with renewed vigour. New month, new job, new shoes and new determination!
    I've just had some stollen. Nice is that stuff.
     mrchewy 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Nice choice of vimeo vid Andy - I remember watching Jack Osbourne in the first series of Adrenaline Junkie back in 2005, climbing in the Verdon. It was the first time I ever thought to myself "I wanna rock climb" but then smashed up my arm big time maybe 18 months later... the Verdon inspired on those thoroughly miserable days during physio, when just an extra mm of movement was all I could manage. Hopefully one day I'll be good enough to climb there.

    Anyways - busy 7 day week at work and some late finishes.

    Mon - Worked late.

    Tue - Worked late. Saw physio at lunchtime to sort upper back. Seems I made everything unhappy whilst trying too hard at yoga the week before. Physio was intense!

    Wed - Quick one hour boulder, Got on the 30deg, easiest route with jugs and got the inside flagging nailed down. Then lapped it face on, dropped knee and inside flagging stylee one after the other. Didn't get pumped either, so the training is working well. Then a yoga class with a stand in teacher - quicker paced and I enjoyed it due to that. Less restorative.

    Thu - Yoga class took by some old lady. Went with mate who's been diagnosed with cancer, his first time but she was brilliant. Place was full of old people, so it was more about staying/getting flexible and seems to be exactly what I want from yoga. Only £4 and you can just turn up, so I may well keep this up.

    Fri - Went out with the youth from the climbing wall. Last man standing. Winner.

    Sat - Hangover. Fail. Worked.

    Sun - Worked. Boulder room for an hour. Tried to stay on the 30deg, 45 and roof panels. No pump, just not strong enough and I reckon that's a lot to do with my core. Spent ages at the top of a V3 that has a stupid last move, trying to work out a decent way to do it. Finally found a solution, yeah, really happy with that as I'd seen a lot of better climbers bail from the top. Then hit the campus rail, to sort lockoff strength. Did better than expected. Couldn't even manage two pullups after the bouldering tho. Good session all round.

    Not much climbing this week, worked over 70hrs but I'm making progress. Not quite back to where I was earlier this year but there's a new set being put up tomorrow, so I'll be able to see how I'm doing in terms of flashing stuff.

    Change of emphasis now - need to get stronger.
     mrchewy 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    I'd be interested in knowing what the assessment entailed etc. Spoke to Tara Hayes a little while back about when the Youth GB lot had a day with him, it'd be good to hear your impressions. Where you on the lattice board?
     J B Oughton 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM: Thanks Andy

    Another samey week, still finding it hard to fit in more than a couple of sessions a week. Things just keep cropping up - obviously everyone has trouble finding the time to train but I'm struggling at the moment! This week the excuses were Medsoc nights out and house-hunting in the evening. We now have a very nice house to look forward to next year though!

    Mon - lazy
    Tue - busy
    Wed - a very hungover route session. Warmed up on the autobelays, then did a 6c and 7b through the roof, and a failed but decent attempt at the 7c, due to climbing to far beyond a clip without being able to reverse - it resulted in a fun fall. Finished doing a techy 7b then a couple of the autobelay lines features only.
    Thurs - rest
    Fri - busy
    Sat - lazy
    Sun - bouldering session, warmed up then had a go at the new 7a-7c circuit. Managed to flash two, but then failed on all others. Repeatedly failed at the last move of three different problems! Finished off with some foot-on campussing, and then just traversing round the wall until a nice pump set in.

    Argh so many unnecessary rest days! This next week is a but quieter at uni though so fingers crossed for the hallowed three sessions in the Mon-Sun week!

    Oh and everything is now sorted for a weeks climbing in Antalya, which is good news, just hope I'll be fit enough...

    Cheers, Jake
    OP AJM 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to mrchewy:

    There's the usual sort of stuff around the assessment - talking about the training facilities you have, the time you have, what your goals are, what your climbing history is, all that sort of thing. There's also warming up which includes learning the circuit on the lattice board, which is created so that essentially all the hand moves are the same length. The assessment has a couple of bits - a max moves test on the board, a max strength test on a campus rung and a set of intervals on the board (starting at a level set by your max moves) to get a picture of how your performance on the board deteriorates as the pump kicks in, and ultimately where your anaerobic capacity sits. The amount of data on other peoples performance on it is useful in benchmarking your strengths and weaknesses because everyone does exactly the same set of exercises.

    In terms of my results, I get more detail later on but highlights seemed to be:
    - lattice board moves put me in the right kind of region for enduro 7b onsight. Something of a surprise given that my fitness peak was probably April or early May in terms of that sort of stuff.
    - unsurprisingly my movement quality is far worse when reading moves for the first time as opposed to being on them subsequently, but I was surprised to be told that the latter is actually really very good. Possibly the former explains why I'm pulling 7b onsights worth of lattice board moves but yet don't feel in myself like I'm 7b onsight fit. Other option is that possibly I could be underestimating how much residual fitness I'm still holding onto. Don't know. An area to work on, at least.
    - finger strength is in the right sort of ballpark for my redpoint grade. Not the strongest person he's seen at that level but not the weakest either.
    - the performance curve runoff isn't brilliant but isn't terrible either - I'm not already an enduro monster but nor am I a comp boulderer.
    - AnCap baseline sits just slightly outside the recommended region, but surprisingly I fall on the "overstrong, under fit" side of the range rather than the "piss weak enduro monster" side. I know I'm no enduro monster but if I'd had to guess I'd have put myself down as having a larger deficiency in strength than in fitness.
    - first steps are therefore about improving efficiency of what I get from my arms - I can up the headline move count without necessarily needing to up my strength or ancap, and then I think once I'm there the training focus will probably shift to pushing that strength base up whilst keeping a hold of the extra efficiency I've gained so that it all moves in step.
    - only Ally will probably understand any of it bar the headline move count, but for any quant geeks in the room I was on 29 moves, 90% bodyweight, ~30% ancap, and ~26 on the efficiency rating.
     mrchewy 30 Nov 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Overstrong and underfit would be something to be pleased about I'd have thought - cheers Andy, appreciate the effort writing it up. Tara had mentioned the lattice board but wasn't really over interested in explaining it, so it's nice to have some gaps in the knowledge filled in.

    One day, one day...
    OP AJM 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to mrchewy:

    I'm not necessarily unhappy, just surprised!
     Dandan 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:
    > Dandan82 - nice one on the comp. coaching plan sorted?

    Thanks AJM, I wish the comp had been a little more enjoyable but I certainly can't complain about my performance!
    Coaching plan is in the works, i'm waiting for an email back from Robin, although due to my finger we didn't do all of the assessment exercises in the session on Thursday so a finished plan might have to wait. Once the finger is sorted I will be able to do the assessment exercises myself and let Robin know the results.

    Half decent week, the finger is definitely on the up. No gym sessions again, i'm thinking of cancelling my membership as i've not been in a month, i'm sure all of the antagonist work is good for me but I can do a fair chunk of it at home and to be honest I was probably doing more than I needed.

    M: Core; L hangs, hanging knee raises, front levers
    T:
    W:
    T: Coaching with Robin at UCR
    F:
    S: Portland! Just 2x 6b+ to keep the finger happy
    S: DIY; Bathroom strip

    Coaching with Robin on Thursday was really good (HMS, what time was your session? I did 7-9pm, may have seen you there?) as I mentioned above we couldn't do all of the assessment exercises so concentrated on route reading and movement in the bouldering area. There was a set of winter comp routes up with loads of world cup-style volume problems that we worked our way around, I was really impressed with the quality and variety of the routes, some really interesting problems.
    My route reading is genuinely terrible, but apparently its something that you can improve with practice, I just can't seem to picture the right body position or foot sequence to move between holds without actually getting on the wall and trying it out.
    I'm looking forward to getting a plan on paper to really push things forward (again) this winter.

    Saturday we decided to sack off all the DIY and jobs around the house and get out on some rock. It turned out to be an absolutely stunning day on Portland, proper tops-off weather. Apologies to Nick Russell, we didn't make it to the cuttings in the end so I couldn't say hi, we found ourselves at Blacknor Central instead, basking in the afternoon sun.
    I didn't climb anything hard, just Ausfahrt (6b+) and Lord Stublock... (6b+) to keep my finger happy, it seemed to cope very well, it's certainly feeling almost back to normal right now. I was conscious of the technique drills I have been doing and was keen to implement them on some actual rock, which I actually found incredibly hard. It might be due to the nature of the routes, heavily textured sedimentary sharpness with a million possible holds, but I found myself, and noticed everyone else, climbing mostly front-on to the rock with bent elbows more often than not. A bad choice for practicing technique perhaps, i'll have to get out on more rock to see if I can do better elsewhere.

    Bathroom destruction on Sunday and I could feel a stirring in my elbows, nothing serious but I think probably a hangover from the session on Thursday which was pretty intense.

    Plan this week is to keep it steady, let the finger fully recover and hopefully get this training plan moving.
    Post edited at 08:22
     Ally Smith 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:
    In retrospect, I really haven’t been giving my elbow a chance to recover. Taking a desmond this weekend has laid me up, so I’m in full on recovery mode.

    BHAG:
    - “La Geurre Sainte” 7b/+ multi-pitch in Wadi Rum
    - Hard sport multi-pitch (8a region?) – something in Taghia maybe?
    - Kaa’bah, 8c+ - gotta aim high!

    LTG (2015):
    - Do some adventurous cycle touring (maybe MTB Great Glen/West Highland way?)
    >8b+ RP – cherry pick from the list below
    - Fisheye & Humildes pas Casa, Oliana.
    - Unjustified/Overjustified & Bat Route, Malham.
    - Waddage, Mecca & Extension, Tor.
    - True North, Kilnsey
    >8a on-sight (turns out the lattice board is very non-linear and I need to aim for 110 moves for 8a+ OS; Eek!)

    MTG (Winter ‘14/’15):
    - 7b multi-pitch on weekend break to Costa Blanca
    - Stay in gainful employment – 30% chance of redundancy by end of March
    - Decorate the house & build some home training facilities
    - “French Pillar” Jebel Misht, E3 choss at New Year.
    - Healthy shoulders, fingers & elbows – keep following the physio (boo – bad elbow)
    - Get some proper “rat crimp” strength so that I can climb hard on peak lime - as much about being a skinny wretch as it is having strong digits it seems
    - Currently a right little FATTY – scales fixed, haven’t dared get on them…

    STG (Next week)
    - Rest/ice/fix elbow, ass and heel
    - Gentle finger-boarding
    - Go to gym for all-round conditioning
    - Try again at bolting Diamond project(s)?

    Last week:

    M - Nowt – stretched and iced only.
    T - Cycled to work and back (11 miles each way). Gentle fingerboard (1) to check elbow; beastmaker lots easier to hold now it doesn’t flex. Static part of session fine. Max pull-ups on edges (6) hurt (dim-whit!)
    W - Stockport. Elbow felt okay warming up, so tried new session from training plan. Managed half of it by the time Luke turned up; elbow aching by then. 1.5hr aero-cap on long vert routes (7a+) didn’t hurt elbow more, but trying the steep 7c did (dip-$hit!)
    T - Gym; X-trainer & rowing warm-up (2k, 7min 35s without really trying) then 2 rounds of 20 reps on various machines. Elbow aching by end – should have avoided “pulling” machines (d’oh – notice a theme here?) Sauna and swim warm-down were pleasant; posing meat heads weren’t!
    F - Nowt – stretched and iced only.
    S - Slate slabs to avoid stressing elbow. VS warm-up, E4 deck-out (bruised bum & heel), E2 & E3 flash, 7a+ TR, 8a TR (x2, eventually did all the moves, bloody desperate!), E1 2nd. Dash to Peak for dinner with AJM, Ali and Alex. Scary blue-light moment on the way home…
    S - Felt distinctly average after bum and heel swelled up overnight. Wandered around in a co-codamol haze for much of the day. Ikea, B&Q, Tesco – is this how the other half live?

    2 beers, one large G&T
    Post edited at 10:20
     hms 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to Dandan:

    Interesting you were there too. My session was much earlier, 2-4, so we didn't overlap. I found the comp boulder problems utterly desparate when I tried them - I'm not a huge volume fan. Which routes did he have you leading? I was trying a red 7a+ by the cupboards which was utter nails and not a 7a+ at all! I'd been saving it for this session so there was something I hadn't tried to do with Robin. In fact I've only ever seen one person try it at all and he looked a bit shakey when he lowered off - I should have taken a hint from that...
     Nick Russell 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to hms:

    > I was trying a red 7a+ by the cupboards

    Is that the one with the mono on? I haven't tried it yet.

    > ...not a 7a+ at all!

    Have you ever found a fairly-graded 7a+ at UCR? If so, let me know!
     Ally Smith 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    > - only Ally will probably understand any of it bar the headline move count, but for any quant geeks in the room I was on 29 moves, 90% bodyweight, ~30% ancap, and ~26 on the efficiency rating.

    After 3 rounds of Randalisation, I've gone from:
    - 39 moves, 70kg max finger strength, 31% ancap (this was a surprise to me too) and 30-ish efficiency? At this stage I was getting up an occasional Spanish 7c/+ OS, and RP'ing 8a/+ in the UK.
    to
    - 68 moves, 72.5kg max finger strength, 23% an-cap, 63 efficiency = Euro 8a OS & 8b/+ RPs.

    Which goes to show that it works, but that in reality the gains i've made have been mainly in efficiency, and that I need to focus on an-cap and finger strength to consolidate at higher grades.

    Only problem is that these two types of training are the things that have tended to injure me in the past...

     hms 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to Nick Russell:

    yep the one with the mono (which is actually v non-scary to use) and the dinner-plate hold on the roof (which is v hard indeed to get to!).

    There are only 3x7a+ at the moment: black/pink left of archway (set by Ben), pink/black on the corkscrew wall (set by Ben) and red by the cupboards (set by Ben). Notice any theme here? The man doesn't know his own strength!!
     Ally Smith 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to hms:

    Yes, i do notice a theme - the routes at Awesome Walls Stockport are set by strong folk too, and hence the grading is tits up also.

    As a measure of how weird the grading is, SuperTed (Kingsnorth), 8c+ man of the moment was redpointing the 7bs and 7b+'s last winter as part of his training...
     Ian Rock 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Hi all, hope you have room for a new bod. Just starting out in climbing, but quickly realising my deficiency's and hence the need to work on aspects of my fitness.

    M - Cycle commute was a tortured affair both ways. Over did it with three sessions down the wall at the weekend, my leg muscles were so sore they actually hurt lying down - trying to get my moneys worth from my new wall membership! Got in from work at night and started to walk the dog, thankfully she pulled to go back home when it started raining after just 10 mins. Went for a swim instead which helped ease the legs no end.

    T - Cycle commute was loads easier, legs felt surprisingly good. Managed an 8km run in the evening.

    W - Cycle commute. Spent a fun couple of hours down the wall after work, got on a range of different flavoured routes. My grade has levelled at around a 5ish, certainly haven't made it to the top of anything starting with a 6 just yet, far too pumped midway. Really enjoying climbing indoors at the mo, every step on the wall is a learning experience and everyone seems so friendly and willing to share advice at the local wall - being someone who loves life outdoors, not sure how long that enjoyment indoors will last, happy to ride the wave though!

    T - Cycle commute. Ran for an hour to pass the time whilst my kids cross country training team embarrassed me with their turn of pace .

    F - Cycle commute then evening off. Ate a stinking hot curry and congratulated myself on not washing it down with a beer!

    S - Plans to head to the Peak District got aborted due to operating my loss making venture as Dads taxi service. Average speed checks between J15 and J19 on the M1 suck at the moment as well!

    S - Went bouldering first thing, but nothing really gelled. My (lack of) technique meant easy problems on overhangs continue to allude me. Gave up before I trashed my hands trying to bully it out with brute force (lesson learned). Went for a long walk and enjoyed watching a wintery sunset over rolling countryside - right before the dog spoiled the moment by rolling in a huge pile of cow crap. Bugger!

    Goals.
    • Keep losing the weight, nearly three stone lost now, another stone and a bit will see me back to a nice lean weight.
    • Focus on my footwork. Although it feels like I need more upper body strength on overhangs, I'm pretty certain its my foot technique that is letting me down. That and my core. Things like flagging and knee drops just seem un-natural at the moment. Might book on a techniques course as the books are not really helping.
    • Get to the hills more. The reason I started climbing inside was to enable me to feel more confident on harder mountaineering type routes. That hasn't happened and I need to get some regular dates in the diary to get my hill legs back.
     hms 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to Ally Smith:

    Thanks Ally - I find that highly reassuring! I know at UCR that one local person climbing mid 8s outside was falling off the 7a+ routes.
     Dandan 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to hms:

    We didn't get onto any roped routes in the end, I was on a bit of a roll in the boulder room. Robin did point at a couple of 7c/7c+'s on the main walls when we walked in that he intended to put me on, judging by your opinion of the difficulty of a 7a+ then I might be glad I didn't get on them...

    I'd be keen to know more about this " x moves x max finger strength x ancap x efficiency" thing? I'm a sucker for stats!
     Ally Smith 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to Dandan:
    > I'd be keen to know more about this " x moves x max finger strength x ancap x efficiency" thing? I'm a sucker for stats!

    It's very specific to those of us that have been on Tom's assessment "lattice board", which tests max aero-power, and then by doing fixed effort/rest intervals, you can assess the aero & an-cap of the individual.

    The following numbers are well established as they are based on lots of different folk who have beed tested by Tom. I can attest to the accuracy of the 70 moves/8a OS, and Kaa'barrows said he tested at 112 moves just before a Spanish trip where he OS'd his first 8a+.

    30 moves = 7b OS
    40 moves = 7c OS
    55 moves = 7c+ OS
    70 moves = 8a OS
    110 moves = 8a+ OS

    An-cap should then be in the range of 20-35% of this max effort depending on your aims (higher is more appropriate for short Tor type routes, lower for euro style on-sighting).

    The board record stands somewhere north of 200 moves! (i.e. this comp climber was an-capping at more moves than AJM can manage fresh - mind boggling!)

    Efficiency is worked out from your body weight and max finger strength, though i don't know the formula.
    Post edited at 12:54
     Spengler 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:
    > Creedence - the only 7a I did in the CB was l'os at Gandia, which is really good but fairly beefy climbing and not the easiest at the grade.

    Thanks AJM. I'll keep an eye out for that one.

    STG (by Dec)
    • 7a clean at the wall TICK
    • All the V5s on the new set at wall. 9/13 Close, but not quite
    • Onsight 6b+ outside
    • HVS mileage

    Last week:

    Not a bad last week before my designated rest week. Very close to a RP of a Steve McClure 7a, which if his other routes at the wall are anything to go by, is a huge sandbag. I've made some good gains on the fingerboard, now only needing to take 1kg off bodyweight to hang the 35° slopers. Was feeling quite tired most sessions last week, so the rest is at a good time I think. Probably climbed at least 2 to 3 times a week since the beginning of summer. So will relax after work this week, and plan the next 8 weeks training....(who doesn't love a good spreadsheet?!)

    M - Rest
    T - 45mins core work. Then FB Max hangs. 3 sets of 3 hangs each hold:
    Half crimp 30mm edge (+7kg), Front 3 30mm edge (+10kgs), 35° Sloper (-2kgs), Back 3 30mm edge (-3kgs).
    +1kg on half crimp, front 3 and slopers.
    W - Wall. About 2 hours of routes. Up to 6c clean. ARC traversing - 45 mins on the 5+.
    T - Rest
    F - Wall. Route Session. About 3 hours of routes. Up to 6c+ clean. Close on another 7a.
    S - 45mins core work. Then FB Max hangs. 3 sets of 3 hangs each hold:
    Half crimp 30mm edge (+8kg), Front 3 30mm edge (+10kgs), 35° Sloper (-1kgs), Back 3 30mm edge (-3kgs).
    +1kg on half crimp, and slopers.
    S - Rest
    Post edited at 13:01
     JayK 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    M-Indoor Bouldering with core set
    T-Indoor bouldering with weighted fingerboarding
    W-Indoor bouldering with weighted fingerboarding
    T-Nothing
    F-Nothing
    S-Kentmere. Tried Tourniquet, one to go back for. Quality line, felt really hard.
    S-Virtual Crag. V6-V9 Climbed everything that was dry. Think the 8A link might be on there, but I'm too fussed because it's a link up trav. Hopefully Silicon Slaves will be dry next time though. Good Venue.
     Dandan 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to Ally Smith:

    Interesting, is this Tom Randall? Where is this lattice board? I guess it's a one-off item?
    I assume the only way to get assessed on this board is to do a session with Tom?
    Many questions I know but i've just finished replying to Robin about my training plan and i'm starting to get psyched about finally measuring some gains again, i'm always happier when I can stick a score against something!
    OP AJM 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to Dandan:

    Apologies for short answers but I think the answers are yes, his back garden, yes and yes.

    To measure gains choose measurement references which can't vary or be taken down and which measure only physical gains (ie you can't trick them with better technique - that wouldn't measure physical gains). Simple and easy things prob best.
     Banned User 77 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Slowly running with less and less pain.. should have a 50 miler this weekend in SF but I've dropped down to the 50k and that's in doubt, so I'll see..

    m: 11.2 mile road and trail run 7:10 pace.
    t: am: 4 mile run. pm: 9 mile road un 6:45 pace
    w: 7 mile steady road run in the cold and wet.
    t: 17.2 mile road run 6:50 pace
    f: am: 8.7 mile road run 7:20 pace. pm: 5.6 mile run 7:10 pace.
    s: 13.7 mile road and trail run 6:30 pace
    s: Am: 7 mile hike in the snow on the appalachian trail. pm: 4 mile run
     mrchewy 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to Ian Rock:

    Welcome to fit club Ian. I climb at Pinnacle myself in the week, so I've probably seen you around.
     Ian Rock 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to mrchewy:

    Cheers mrchewy! Small world, the Pinnacle is my local wall, if you ever need a belay feel free to message us!
     mbh 01 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    I find proper off-road night running pretty scary, so I need to practice. This week I did four runs in the (proper) dark again, but gave myself a break and only did it on cycle trails. A couple of French coast path runs to finish.

    55 miles, not very hilly.

    M -
    T - 10.3 miles Bissoe Valley 8:02
    W - 10.3 miles Scorrier <> Portreath 7:24
    T - 10.3 miles Bissoe Valley 7:53
    F - 7 miles - Camel trail 7:26
    S - 6.1 miles, Locquemeau, coast path 8:26
    S - 11.3 miles St Michel - Locquemeau. coast path 9:00
     Dandan 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Quick question as I know there are a lot of runner in the FC, for the last couple of weeks I have been getting a slight pain down the outside of my left leg from the knee downwards, usually after sitting for a while. I can feel it when walking up or down stairs and when changing gear in my car, sometimes I can just about feel it when walking but it seems to fade after 100 steps or so.
    It doesn't hurt when climbing, although with that in mind I have been doing a lot more twisting movements recently as part of my coaching, I suppose that could be a factor.
    Its certainly not debilitating, more confusing as I can't think of any specific moment that I might have injured it, but I don't want it to get any worse due to my ignorance, anybody have any idea what it might be?
    Perhaps it's just me getting old and the winter seeping into my bones...
     mrchewy 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to Ally Smith:

    The law of diminishing returns as far as the amount of moves goes but that makes the harder routes in the world all the more impressive. Cheers for explaining it all Ally. You say that you made the most gains in efficiency - do you feel that was via diet or was it through fingerboarding?
    OP AJM 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to mrchewy:

    > After 3 rounds of Randalisation, I've gone from:
    > - 39 moves, 70kg max finger strength, 31% ancap (this was a surprise to me too) and 30-ish efficiency? At this stage I was getting up an occasional Spanish 7c/+ OS, and RP'ing 8a/+ in the UK.
    to
    > - 68 moves, 72.5kg max finger strength, 23% an-cap, 63 efficiency = Euro 8a OS & 8b/+ RPs.

    > Which goes to show that it works, but that in reality the gains i've made have been mainly in efficiency, and that I need to focus on an-cap and finger strength to consolidate at higher grades.

    Efficiency is about moves per unit finger strength, as a high level concept, so I think it's probabky more about the fitness than diet (Ally is currently a fatty) or finger strength (which has increased by ~3% against a backdrop of moves increasing more like 80%)

    As the difficulty of the lattice board move comes closer to your aerobic level, you'll get serious non-linearity in the moves I think. At some point it becomes very difficult to use for measurement because it's just too easy - he said he has to up the difficulty for the performance curve for very fit climbers because otherwise you get into a problem where the limiting factor is muscle glycogen stores not pump resistance. Down at my level it's fairly linear because the move are so far away from my aerobic level.
     biscuit 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Cheers Andy.

    I've been absent for a couple of weeks. Just too much work/family stuff on the go.

    Not been up to much. A couple of long runs in the lead up to the 30ish miler in a couple of weeks, a couple of bouldering sessions and a couple of route sessions.

    Bouldering has been going OK with some V5 flashes and some V6's worked.

    Routes again are OK. 6c+ onsight and 7a after a couple of goes seems to be the current standard. As Ally says as that's here at work and the routes are set by people who have forgotten what 7a feels like it's not too bad

    In our defence the grades tend to be consistent, with the usual one or two disparities that keep you on your toes.

    No real goals atm for climbing.Just fitting it in where i can. Going to get some enthusiasm up for the beastmaker and core/flexibility i think to add a little something extra. It's not as if i'll be in danger of overtraining.
     Ian Rock 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to Dandan:

    Sounds like shin splints, have you made any recent adjustments in your training - upping your amount of running / jogging on hard paths / different shoes etc?
     Dandan 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to Ian Rock:

    welcome to FC Ian, I don't think i'm in danger of shin splints, I probably should have mentioned that I currently do absolutely zero cardio exercise! It's not a pain in the shin its on the outside edge of the leg, and is not aggravated by impact, more by inactivity and then use. I think perhaps i'm sitting funny or something...

    Thanks for explaining the lattice board AJM/Ally
     Ian Rock 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to Dandan:

    Cheers Dandan82 - I 'spose zero cardio is the ultimate way of avoiding shin splints, lol!
     mrchewy 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Thanks Andy - more info is a good thing. It was just Ally had mentioned "Efficiency is worked out from your body weight and max finger strength, though i don't know the formula." and I'd taken that to mean that mass played a big-ish part in the efficiency equation. 'Light is right' etc...
     Humperdink 02 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:
    Cheers AJM once again!

    Tried to "get the miles in" this week (well get somewhere near what Iain would call as easy week)

    M: pm - 9M steady in 59:15
    Tu: Lunchtime - session which I approached with trepidation: 15min tempo, 5min jog then 10x 2.5min with 1 min recovery. Went surprisingly well was doing roughly 5:10's on the tempo and 5:00 or just below on the reps, 13M all in. pm - 5/6M easy in 36:23 going well
    W: Rest - felt done in
    Th: Lunchtime - 9M steady in 60:23, pm - 6M steady in 40:20 felt good
    F: Lunchtime - 4/5M easy in 33:27
    Sa: am - Session 5x8min with 90sec recovery around a very muddy, hilly loop. ~12M total, pm - 5M easy in 34:46
    Su: Got up early and did ~25mins on my own before meeting a couple of the lads to do another 90mins steady. ~16M in 1:54:04

    80M total which although not mega mileage it felt like all I was doing was running or working. Also tired a lot of the time but hope I'll adjust over the next couple of weeks. Got a few races coming up so looking forward to seeing my fitness move on from a month ago.
    Post edited at 19:31
     williemiller 03 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    Thanks AJM

    It was a poor week for me running wise. I’ve developed a bit of a groin niggle, it starts at about 5km and gets steadily more noticeable/painful. It is causing me to change routes and cut short runs so if it persists I will see someone about it, but for now I’ll try and pick the brains of some of the more seasoned runners here if I may. My thoughts are that it might be a “bedding in” problem as I am new to running or that it might be posture related as I have just switched to a desk based existence, any thoughts gratefully received.
    Mon – short boulder session, yoga
    Tue – Run aborted after 8km
    Wed – 4x4s then bouldering, managed all the new V3s on the tech slab within a couple of goes which I was pleased with
    Thu – Run 10km very steady
    Fri –Nothing (but I will flatter myself by calling it a rest day)
    Sat – 4x4s. Still had enough juice left at the end to do a new 6b+ after so happy with that as that is my grade limit anyway.
    Sun – run aborted after 6 km
    STG (next week)
    Find a climbing partner
    3 climbing sessions a week
    2 runs without cutting short

    MTG (by spring)
    Get to 75kg
    6b sport onsight
    10 HVS, 5 E1, 2 E2
    Run up Snowdon
    In reply to AJM:

    I'm very aware I need to re-set my goals so will make that a job for this week. Recruiting for two members of staff at the moment so spending lots of time at work stressing and not enough sleeping and training.

    M - rest
    T - Boulder MK WBL
    W - rest
    T - rest
    F - rest
    S - Lead Wirksworth up to 6c onsight and 7a+ dog
    S - Boulder Climbing Unit up to V6
     mattrm 05 Dec 2014
    In reply to AJM:

    STG - Sport pyramid - 6a (2/10), 6b (1/6), 6c (0/1) - Trad pyramid - VS (5/10), HVS (0/6), E1 (0/1) 11st 10lbs weight
    Aspirational - Climb E5/6 (London Wall), Scottish Winter V (Point 5, Zero, Minus etc), WI5, Redpoint 8a (Masada, Mortal Kombat & Cider Soak) stay injury free & maintain 11st.

    Weight - 12st 1lbs (lost 2lbs)

    M - S - Work was mental, ankle is stuffed and I've finished (most) of the kitchen.

    It's been a busy week. No climbing, but I've done a lot of work on the kitchen and most of the doors are made. The worktop is finished. My ankle is still stuffed after twisting it in Morocco. Need to get down the wall and do some bouldering tho. The kitchen will be finished in time for christmas!!!

    hms - are you still up for a mid week session somewhere?

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