UKC

Hi
I am after some kind of tick-list or progression plan to get established at E1 on Gritstone. Perhaps ticking some safe E1 5c would be a good way to start? Any recommendations of routes?
Kirill

In reply to Kirill:

Millsom's Minion at Stanage Plantation was easy enough for E1 5b. It was my first proper E1 (after Three Pebble Slab) but felt nice and steady and well protected.

In reply to Kirill:
Did you mean breaking in to E2 or just solid at E1? I reckon you are never really feeling confident at your top lead grade of a season until you've lead the next grade up

In reply to knighty:

I have tried Milsom Minion couple of years ago, but backed off because could not find any gear. That's why I am thinking E1 5c should probably a better bet to be safe.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Breaking into E2 would be a bonus I guess

In reply to Kirill:

Mmm - if you could not find gear you have a problem - either with experience or with your rack. Its E1 and 5b for a reason - safe but not massively protected. Ab down and see what you can place from a rope.

In reply to Kirill:

Flying Buttress Direct is safe and a bit of a classic. You can build a bomb shelter before the roof crux then the two cams in the roof are solid. After a fairly brief few crux moves its VDiff/Severe to the top.

In reply to Kirill:

Hi Kirill, Left Unconquerable is an obvious place to start on well protected grit E1s.

In reply to Kirill:

Left Unconquerable as above.

Also, Dark Continent and Mississippi Variant Direct and The Link are close together, cruxy and well protected, and really good climbing. That would be a good little grit session.

In reply to GrahamD:

I have done LU, but it is not really an E1 though? More like VS 5a.

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Done both MVD and the Link, again those do nothing for my confidence as they are not really E1's. Will have a look at Dark Continent.

In reply to David Staples:

FBD is on my list, thanks.

In reply to Kirill:

Most grit E1s are either cracks of the steep and brutal variety or have at least a short run out section. Millsoms is an example of the latter sort, where the start is not well protected until you get hold of the ledge at 5m. These moves are 4c/5a though, so, to be expected at the grade and overall it's a soft E1.

Other ok ones at Stanage, with possibly a short dodgy section would include Morrison's Redoubt (only just E1 if you're 6ft+) and Mississippi Varient direct (pretty safe really).

in the Plantation, Living at the Speed has tricky moves above bomber gear and is a good intro E1. Also Sudoxe at Stanage North is very pleasant but only gets HVS on UKC and E1 in the definitive guide. This is pretty safe with a wide range of small cams.

Elsewhere on grit the easy but a bit dodgy list could include:
Motorcade: Froggatt
Nanoq Slab: Froggatt (bit shit though)
Fringe Benefit: Rivelin
Incursion: Stanage North
Easter Rib: Stanage Pop
Nemmes pas Harry: Bamford

The ok at the grade list with reasonably normal climbing
Long Tall Sally: Burbage North
Hearse Arete: Gardoms

Steeper but safer list could include
Lamebrain: Curbar (take care with gear after the crack - it's there but needs care and is pumpy to place well)
Strapiombante: Froggatt
Left Unconquerable: Stanage

The weird and dangerous list could include
Gullibles Travels: Stanage Pop
Pedlar's Rib: Stanage Pop

In reply to Kirill:


ok you're either trolling or you're good on cracks and less good on runout grit type moves on slabbier terrain. If it's option 2 then look at my last post for some ideas and enjoy!

In reply to Kirill:


Lol. You may be making the common mistake of thinking: 'if I can climb it it can't be 'X' grade, because I can't climb 'X' grade.

If you want routes people find hard, try Desperation, Dexterity, Great Peter, Billingsgate, The Embankment cracks, Tippler, The Fin, Hawkwing...... Or get on the limestone and look at Dead Banana Crack and Debauchery.

Good luck.

In reply to LakesWinter:

Not trolling, and while I am absolutely useless on slabs I don't think I am particularly good at cracks either. Although I definitely prefer cracks as they are safe. Anything run-out I simply won't do.

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

There could be element of truth to that but not in this case. Harding superdirect for example is same style as the Link but harder, gets HVS. Mississippi Variant Direct is no harder than Queersvile and probably safer too.

Yes please, I think I do want routes that people find hard as long as they are SAFE and easy to protect.

In reply to ChrisBrooke:


Dark Continent is one of the hardest E1s at the crag, Variant Direct is OK, but very reachy and it's a gear at-your-feet-above-a-ledge move - not dangerous, but a hard move with annoying gear. The Link is HVS.

The really easy E1s at Stan Pop are the bold ones like Saliva, Morrison's (only one bold move), Easter Rib (no hard moves except mild 5b off the ground. For one which is low in the grade, safe where it counts, and with a nice run-out I'd recommend Kirkus' Corner which is about a grade easier than FBD (physically, psychologically, and for safety).

Edit: having read the thread, just, get on the hard stuff like:

L'horla, Dark Continent, Desparation, FBD, Tippler, Unprintable(! never done it), Wrong Hand Route, Moyer's, Eye of Faith (definitely E2!),

In reply to Kirill:

Safety Net, Roaches. That's safe.

In reply to Kirill:
Hmm, your thoughts on LU, MVD & The Link make me wonder - how tall are you?

LU is considered benchmark E1 5b.
MVD is easier if you are tall and harder if you're short.
The Link is probably a candidate for E0 (noooooo, don't go there ) - only a wee bit harder than Congo Corner

If you want to be ok at E1 then one grit option is to tour around and do all those nasty HVS 5bs - like those at Hen Cloud, Roaches and Ramshaw.

In reply to Kirill:

Living at Speed, Millsom's Minion and Long Tall Sally used to be a lot of people's first grit E1, although I'd say all are easier than Left Unconquerable.

Other suggestions like Steamin and Another Game of Bowls Sir Walter at Stanage or Slow Hand at Hen Cloud

In reply to Kirill:

a lot of stanage E1s do have the rep as a bit too bold to be HVS style routes.

I thought LU was easier than RU and is very soft for E1.....

In reply to Kirill:

Don't aim for the number, aim for quality routes that inspire you, and a level of challenge that will make the effort worthwhile. If you think "E1" is about the right level of challenge, look around for specific routes around that grade that make you think "Wow, I have to climb that" - this will provide a much more solid motivation.

Also this might help: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2648

In reply to Jon Stewart:


I have tried to lead L'orla and Tippler, got to the top on both but with falls. Will try them again to see if I have better luck. I have seconded Moyers - didn't feel hard, perhaps it's different on lead.

In reply to Michael Hood:

I am 6'2, so I guess taller than average.

Suggestions of nasty HVS 5bs are also welcome.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Unprintable is one of very few routes that I've started but did not finish. Safe as houses, hard as hell. Grim. Go for it!

In reply to Kirill:

Orpheus Wall at Birchen? Surely E1 for most HVS punters? 5c not 5b though but a good safe route.

In reply to Kirill:



The Mincer is a classic, especially as you're tall. But basically head for any HVS 5b crack on Western Grit and you're guaranteed a complete nightmare.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
I thought the crack on Mincer was the relatively easy part, getting off the ground was the crux for me.

In reply to Kirill:

Forget E1 5c. It will be nails. I've done handful of E1s and the biggest obstacle to climbing E1 is not doing them. So get stuck in.

In reply to Kirill:

I found turning the lip gruesome!

In reply to Kirill:

My suggestion would be to wait till about October when the weather cools down

In reply to the power:

.....or possibly craps out altogether.

In reply to ByEek:

I found morroc'n roll at Castle naze alright. crux is technical but fun and being e1 5c it's safe as you're going to get

In reply to Kirill:

head down to hen cloud for the 3 big HVS/E1s all.are safe. the embankment finger cracks are another obvious option. Alternatively wait for 4 months and as things cool.they will all feel much easier. for rigorous jamming practise stoney is ideal once the grit starts to feel warm

In reply to Kirill:

How about The Wobbler at Stanage North? Well-protected E1 5c.
Suspect easier for the tall.

In reply to Kirill:

We produced a 'Smile' list on p.89 of the Froggatt guide for those breaking into grades from HS to E2. For the E1 list, the HVS climbs were tough for the grade but safe, the E1's easish for the grade and safe all the climbs are very good but there are no major classics, so you won't be getting in anyones way.

The E1s are Laimbrain, Non Secateur, Nesh, Afterbirth, All the President's Men, Vaguely Great, Up the Establishment and Whillan's Blind Variant.

In reply to Offwidth:

Nice list there. Never heard of any of them - good to be pointed at new routes to try!

In reply to Kirill:

a lot of E1's are easier than hvs's as they came from a different era.

the roaches E1's are all steady,cant think of one i wouldnt recommend .

In reply to Kirill:

I am appalled at the number of E0s being suggested on this thread. I mean Millson's Minion, Mississippi Varient Direct, Long Tall Sally, Easter Rib, Motorcade.

I thought we were supposed to be talking about E1s here?!

In reply to Kirill:

Gardom's Edge ,Left Hand Pillar Crack.Strenny ,good gear.

In reply to Removed User:

Motorcade is solid E1 as a genuine onsight: easy technically for the grade but tricksy and bold.... only E0 for cheats who watch how its done first. Long Tall Sally is also E1 these days (too much wear and falls from all the recommendations). One could also argue that eastern grit E0 is yorkshire or moorland grit HVS but solid E1 in most other places.

In reply to Kirill:

The Toy (E1 5c)

That'll get you solid at E1 and probably E2 for that matter!
Safe and hard.

In reply to Offwidth:

Hasn't Long Tall Sally been E1 for at least 30 years, and always regarded as c. 1/3 the way up the E1 grade in various graded lists? The vast consensus of UKCers has it as mid-E1.

In reply to mark s:


Tower Face is E1 in the BMC guide, I definitely wouldn't recommend that!

Shortcomings might be a problem if you're, you know...

In reply to Kirill:


When breaking through a grade barrier, you must consider 2 parts - mental and physical. Furthermore, consider that grade boundaries are not so clear-cut esp with ref to your particular physiology.

It may well be your problem is self-credibility.

In reply to Kirill:

First Finale at Anglezarke and Shivers Arete at Wilton 3 might suit.

In reply to LeeWood:

Yes, this is something I keep in mind all the time and it's part of the reason for starting this thread. I have been climbing carefully chosen E1's since 2009 and have lead a few E2's as well. Most of those were on other rock types but now I feel that it's time I upped my game on Gritstone too and gain a little bit of self-credibility in the process.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


It's a proper E1; I've never really understood why it was thought of as an easy way to get started in the grade.

In reply to Kirill:

Sounds like you're doing fine to me. However on this:


Have you got friends (or other cams) on your rack? If not, get a couple. 'Millsom's Minion' is a prime example of a grit route which is a changed experience since the advent of friends.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Yes I have cams, but I remember the first placement is too low to protect from the ground fall.

In reply to Kirill:

Yeah you have to basically go for it and not muff it to the break at 5m or so. Fortunately once stood in the first break the bold moves up are about 4c. Do it on a cold ish day and all the holds feel a lot better too.

Do you do much highball bouldering? It can help with the head games on this sort of route.

In reply to Rob Parsons:


Agreed.

In reply to Kirill:


That's what the subsequent placements are for.

In reply to Kirill:
Millstone edge loads of well protected routes

In reply to Kirill:

I'm trying to think, but I don't think I have ever led an E1 on grit, so let us know how your quest goes and what route you had success on!

I'm mostly climbing on grit currently, but I still think natural grit in particular has the toughest grades - I've done E1 on slate, dolerite, limestone, mountain igneous rocks, lots on granite, whatever Elgol on Skye is (sandstone?), so I'm not a total klutz, but I've been spanked by a number of grit HVSs over the last year or so, so E1 seems a long way away!

Millstone would be an obviously suggestion, but quarried grit seems a bit like cheating somehow! The HVSs at Millstone are OK I've found compared to nearby ones on natural edges.

In reply to Kirill:

That's the ticket! Get on the classic HVS routes from the 50's and then try to find harder E1s.
Mincer, Matinee and Sauls Crack at Roaches, L'Horla, Suicide Wall at Cratcliffe, the big three at Almscliffe - Demons Wall, Overhanging Groove and Great Western, any given HVS at Wimberry, stuff like that.
I know the premise is very leaky, but HVS was definitely the hardest grit grade to crack for me.

At Millstone:

Dexterity is the obvious one, but if you think Left unconquerable is not E1 you may be disappointed. The E1s on the Embankment are great if you like crushing your fingers.

It does strike me that you are a proper E1 leader, but like things to be properly protected. This is not what gritstone does best, but the safest routes are indeed cracks as you have observed. Furthermore, pure cracks are probably not what E1 grit is best at.

There are still loads of tricky E1s without potential for a Desmond though.

In reply to Kirill:

I suppose i better start my reply with "in my limited experience"

Beyond VS natural grit grades are odd things. I now accept that the grades work, but only if you can actually see the route in front of you.

What the grades do on natural grit is group routes of a similar standard provided they are of a similar type of climb. So some HVS 5c HVS 6a doesn't mean well protected it just means the more serious moves are easier or the harder moves are lower down. E1 6a might mean harder more moves in a more serious position but the hardest move still not that high. I assume that all these type of route are out of the question for you

HVS 5b often means brutally hard moves that are well protected

Well protected E1 all seemed hard to me (including left unconquerable which I have fallen off twice I think)

The route that I remember thinking was OK was the The Tippler (although i was climbing way better than when i fell off LU). My memory is that it is well protected

But in general grit routes and grades are all a bit specialist compared to some other rock types. In North Wales there are lots of lower E grade that are well protected and just like a VS, but harder. Gritstone just doesn't seem to work like that

In reply to Kirill:

Just that well protected e1s where the difficulty is short - many like the HVS 5B'S you may have been doing. Be prepared to fail, and if so come back and do in better style. If you are light/strong then steep stuff may be ok. Left Unconqerables is a good suggestion if you are half way decent at placing gear, don't forger the horizontal crack below the crux - fall on gear here keeps you out the line of the corner. Watch the number who fail on F B D. Dexterity at Millstone can be well protected but its quite physical (its grit). Ask old timers which E1'S they can still do - that's a good list! Don't take suggestions from folk who haven't done the route for a while, some routes are now getting polished/harder.

In reply to Kirill:



I agree with Fiend. Each to their own, if grades do it for you then great, but I don't really get it. Grades go up and down with each new guidebook release, the division between HVS and E1 is totally arbitrary and may not even exist for a climber from another country using a different system - yet the climb is the same regardless. It's the same mentality that takes people up nondescript Scottish bog because it happens to be above 3000ft.

Find a great climb, something hard that challenges you and use the grading system as a guide to progression. If grades are your sole goal you'll always be questioning yourself - was it really E1?

In the future the consensus may decide that Left Unconquerable should be VS, or HVS or even E2, but it will always be Left Unconquerable.

In reply to Kirill:

The hen cloud hvs's are worth a look not only are the superb route's but as it says in the guide if you can manage them your ready for most E1's.

In reply to rob 528:

Yeah, because most of the Hen Cloud HVSs are E1

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I think the vs's are harder than most E2's I've done

In reply to planetmarshall:


It's about progression isn't it? If I do a bunch of local E1's, that's likely more of a challenge than doing a bunch of local VS's. Then maybe next year I could a bunch of E2's, or whatever. It's partly about ego, but as long as you're having fun...


And it's worth doing because it's worth experiencing such a classic route, but there are classics at all grades, so you can tick classics and push your grade. Or at least you can at somewhere like Stanage with such a good choice of routes.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


I wish I'd been more clear that the grading system just doesn't seem to work in the way that you are describing, particularly on gritstone. I'm basically agreeing with Fiend and Planetmarshall.

I think you want to spend the summer enjoying your climbing and doing some great routes. Use the grades to inform this, don't make the grades the objective

Grades work best when combined with guide books to help you plan some great climbing. I think they work less well as badges of achievement.

In terms advice. I recon you'l have more success with E2 on quarried grit that E1 on natural grit. Get fit and then go and try Regent Street. it's a great route, forget the grade. The summer I lead Regent Street, Billy Whizz and Suspense I only did one route harder than E1 on natural grit and that was Heartless Hair with a side runner. I did it as it was fun but I don't think I can really say I was leading E3 on grit. My E1s did include a few of with gearless padding on slabs. I was hoplessly weak in my arms and probably failed on the Sloth that year. So what grade was I leading? Who gives a monkeys..... I'm just glad I put my energy into something more memorable

In reply to Kirill:

Louie Groove at Ramshaw is good

In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):


In my experience it does.


Why?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Why doesn't the grading system work like that?

Well in my experience on gritstone there were HVS that i couldn't do and E3s that i could. The differences in North Wales seemed much smaller.

Now this of course doesn't matter at all if you are just out for a nice day. But if your ambition is to lead say E1 it leaves a quandary doesn't it.

The OP has a classic case of this. He has lead an E1 on grit, Left Unconquerable but he says that it felt like VS 5a

So this is problem one of making the aim to lead E1. The ones you have done start not counting as you or someone else say they are easy ones

Then the are the E1s you can't do. Again the Op has this problem in spades. Can you say your leading E1 in grit if you've eliminated all the gearless ones?


So much better to say this weekend I'll have a crack at the Tippler as it looks like a good route and seems safe enough to fall off the crux. Then I'll pop along and try Quersville as that sounds good as well. The grades just help you choose the routes you'll enjoy.

In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):

No, why not make the grade the objective? I just do what motivates me, last weekend it was some fairly easy trad at Stanage, not grade related, but sometimes I just want to climb a grade. Why not do just do whatever excites you, a grade, a particular climb, an indoor comp, whatever? Just don't let anybody else dictate what climbing 'should' be about.


I wasn't saying there weren't exceptions, I was talking about on average, I think I did say 'bunch of' or something like that. And the exception you mention is probably mainly down to your strengths and weaknesses relative to others, it's all subjective, but on average the grading gives you an idea of how difficult the route is. I know I can choose to have an easier day or a harder day, and grading gives me some choice in that.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
If it's about progression why haven't you progressed? I'm happy on any grade I can lead (and will often choose to spend a day soloing a bunch of routes to VD ) and thats partly my excuse for never onsighting harder than E2.

Someone above said Hen Cloud HVS is harder than E2.... well speaking as a low achiever, some of my most enjoyable starred HVS climbs have been on Hen Cloud: some knowingly top end, like Delstre and HCE, but none were obvious sandbags (like say Teck Crack or Masochism are in that guide) . There were (and possibly still are) sandbags but I helped regrade all the obvious ones up to VS for the BMC (and presumably through that, other recent guides). On grit, places like Crookrise feel way harder to me at HVS, whether its safe gritstone fighting or a risky question of balance.

In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):
That difference between grit and Wales must be a style issue and having a bold head. Any climb will feel hard for the grade if you lack the neccesary skills or the inclination. Wales has its own sandbags of course... I found the polished "VD" right-hand lower-tier optional start to Soapgut (Wall Climb) as scary as anything on Grey Arete when I did them the same weekend.

Grades are a nominal subjective average, so unless someone is a very rare beast (being uniformly average) there will always be soft touches to be plucked. Big ticks also go easier when climbing well or being well practiced on similar routes or in softer graded areas.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Well we don't have to agree so it doesn't matter that we don't. This didn't start with me telling you or anyone else what to do. It started with me telling the OP what I thought the Op should do

My advice to the OP remains though. They can of course take it or leave. That is what is great about the internet. You ask a question you get a range of answers

Out of interest do you have any advice for the OP?

In reply to Offwidth:


All what is about progression?

And I started out on VDiffs, so I have progressed.

And I was talking generally anyway, why people aim for higher grades.

In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):


Do what excites you, don't listen to specific advice. People will just advise you to do what excites and interests them.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
So you started on a VD, but how many grades did you progress in the last 2 years? As a fun based climber I got to an occasional E2 onsight in 4 years (by just being motivated by particular lines) and in the next 25 have plateaued and then dropped to the occasional E1 onsight (unless one counts guidebook grade creep upgrades).

As for your next post, plenty of the advice here amounts to 'climb what excites you' : although its hard to predict what this might be, most of the attempts on this thread seem honest enough to me, rather than ego based.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Yeah... 30 years or so back is when LTS was arguably around E0 and so had a reputation as a very popular first E1 which lasted quite a while. What were your desperate Hen Cloud HVS climbs? After things there at VS,,like Central Climb Direct, the big HVS beasts like Delstre felt almost friendly grade wise to me.

In reply to Kirill:

Facetious I know, but if all else fails you could just do loads of HVSs and then wait for the next guidebook or two to come out when you'll probably find several of them have been put up to E1 (or even E2)! Well, it worked for me!

In reply to Kirill:

If you regularly climb gritstone VS 4c (fairly easily) and HVS 5a but have to try quite hard on some HVS 5bs but still usually manage them frequently (some can feel harder than E1s as it is a wide grade). A good way to break into the E1 grade on gritstone is that you should try a minimum of 1 E1 per session outside. Each crag you go to pick at least one routes that excites you (personally quality over grade is the decider for me) and fits your criteria (safe within reason) that will be the focus of the session. Don't get too hung up if you don't but if you keep trying on a regular basis (ie one day per week/or equivalent of a couple of weekends per month) you will soon break into the grade. If you think of the number and ease at which you do the VS & HVSs as pyramid system so you have a solid basis at the grades below the principle can be applied at any grade. Exposure to 2nding more routes at this grade will help you to become very good at 5a moves ok at 5b moves enough for working out the cruxs on most E1s and feel confident to try 5c crux moves occasionally as well as help your stamina. Bouldering at similar grades can also help by exposing you to these moves.

Below is a list of routes that are either quite hard at the HVS grade as cross over routes or good E1s to try with your criteria on grit at different crags you might go to on grit:

Agden Rocher:
Conjunctus Viribus (E1 5a) - safe soft
Castor (E1 5c) - safe, takes some arranging

Rivelin:
Roof Route (HVS 5b)
Nonsuch (E1 5b)

Dovestone Tor/area:
Spartan (E1 5c)
Great Buttress Eliminate (HVS 5a) - steep but well protected HVS if you finish easily at the big ledge, ankle breaking E1 if you do the final wall direct.
Lancaster Flyby (E1 5b)

Bamford:
Wrong Hand Route (E1 5c) - all in the name
Parliament (E1 5c) - keep off the other route and this will feel hard and almost **

Stanage north:
The Vice (E1 5b) - desperate but safe
Surgeon's Saunter (HVS 5b) - sustained hard work
The Wobbler (E1 5c)
Terrazza Crack (HVS 5b)
Wild and Woolly (E1 5b)
Deuteronomy (E1 5b)

High Neb to plantation:
Kelly's Overhang (E1 5c)
The Dalesman (HVS 5a)
Jeepers Creepers (E1 5b)
Anniversary Arête (E1 5b)

Plantation:
Surprise (E1 5c)
Living at the Speed (E1 5b) - crux protected, bit run easier ground above but still a popular first E1
Esso Extra (E1 5b) - yet another brutal but well protected Joe Brown HVS/E1
Tower Crack (HVS 5b) - dito
Tower Chimney (E1 5b)
Nuke the Midges (E1 5b)
The Mangler (E1 5c) - only if you have a size 6 cam
The Left Unconquerable (E1 5b)

Popular
5.9 finish
Dark Continent (E1 5c)
The Link (E1 5b)
Desperation (E1 6a)
Mississippi Variant Direct (E1 5b)
Goodbye Toulouse (E1 5b)Flying Buttress Direct (E1 5b)
The Tippler (E1 5b)
The Unprintable (E1 5b)
Apparent North (HVS 5b)

Burbage valley:
The Grogan (HVS 5c)
The Fin (E1 5b)
Long Tall Sally (E1 5b)
Brooks' Crack (HVS 5a)
Hades (E1 5c)
No Zag (E1 5b)
Surform (E1 5b)

Millstone:
Dexterity (E1 5b)
Supra Direct (HVS 5b) - keep your legs and arms off the ledge to the right for the proper tick
Eros (E1 5b)
Billingsgate (E1 5b) - only well protected with well placed small gear plus think i remember placing a cam in the best hand hold rather than going with out.
Xanadu (E1 5b) - top grove in particular which i cleaned recently but will still be quite dirty, wild hand traverse is bold though.
Embankment 3 (E1 5b) - do both pitches for full tick!!
Time for Tea Original (E1 5b)
Embankment 4 (E1 5b)s
Whitehall (HVS 5b)
Lotto (E1 5c)
Oxford street and Piccadilly circus P1 only! - pre place abseil rope to get out of cave!
Shaftesbury Avenue (HVS 5b) - need large size 4 to protect wide start.
The Whore (HVS 5b) - hard, take care to protect the start
Butter-ess (HVS 5b)

Lawrencefield:
Great Peter (E1 5b)
Delectable Direct (E1 5c)

Froggatt:
Strapiombante (E1 5b)
Strapiombo (E1 5b)
Chequers Crack (HVS 5c)

Curbar:
Deadbay Crack (E1 5b)
Lamebrain (E1 5b)
Left Eliminate (E1 5c)
Smoke ont' Watter (E1 6a) - take mat if you want to protect boulder problem start - hard for both bits
Green Crack (HVS 5b)
L'Horla (E1 5b)
The Peapod (HVS 5b)
The Toy (E1 5c) - safe but right bastard

Gardoms:
Nowanda (HVS 5a)
Biven's Crack (E1 5b)
The Eye of Faith (E1 5c) - either start
Rhythmic Itch (E1 5b)
Left-hand Pillar Crack (E1 5b) safe but hard, very good gear but pumpy to place.

Chatsworth
The Puppet Crack (HVS 5b)
Despot (E1 5c)
Up the Establishment (E1 5b)

other East side grit/esoteric to take you somewhere different:
Suicide Wall (HVS 5b)
The Rat (E1 5b)
Dextrasol (E1 5c)
Bramble Crack (HVS 5b)
A Farewell to Arms (E1 5b) - this might not be well protected i can't remember
Baker's Groove (E1 5b)
Private Targets (E1 5b) - pre place rope a top to avoid fight through brambles.

#######################################

West grit:
Roaches:
Safety Net (E1 5b)
Teck Crack (E1 5c) - HARD!
Ackit (HVS 5b)
Matinee (HVS 5b)
The Mincer (HVS 5b)

hen cloud
Encouragement (E1 5b)
Bachelor's Left-hand (HVS 5b)
Hen Cloud Eliminate (HVS 5b)

Ramshaw (are you ready for a fight?):
The Untouchable (E1 5b)
almost all the HVS
The Press (E1 5b) - the old one i've not done on the list but looks ok

Moorland/over the moors guide
The Ivory Tower (E1 5b) - save a medium cam for the top!
Three Flakes of Man (E1 5c)
Intestate (E1 5b)
Galileo (E1 5c)
Freddie's Finale (HVS 5b)
The Trident (E1 5b)
Gatepost Crack (E1 5b)
Fallen Heroes (E1 5b)
Piece of Pipe (HVS 5b)
Mickey Thin (E1 5b)
Sodom (E1 5c)
Gomorrah (E1 5b)
The Wilter (E1 5b)
Ricochet Wall (E1 5b)

Wilton/lancashire:
First Finale (E1 5b)
Central Route (E1 5b)
Dawn (HVS 5b)
Ann (E1 5b)
Shivers Arete (E1 5b) - should be safe with cemented peg.

yorkshire
Thin Red Line (E1 5b)
The Waster (E1 5b)
Z Climb Eliminate (E1 5b)
Birdlime Traverse (E1 5b)
Monument Crack (E1 5b)
Desperation Crack (HVS 5b)
Frensis Direct (E1 5b)

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Thanks for this Graeme. Really appreciated.

In reply to Kirill:

no problem it's rather wet for the grit this evening/weekend! and I think there is some football on.

Just looked through your log and it looks like you have done loads of E1s and some E2s on all sorts of rock in the mountains and on sea cliffs (lots of routes you've done are on my wish list) so i think you just need to try a few more and I'm sure you'll smash them and will soon find them no different.

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Now that is a quality list.
Good work

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Great list. Ivory Tower is E1 though in OtM.

In reply to Offwidth:


Hardly trad climbed in the last 2 years so I haven't even tried to progress, mainly sport climbed. Why do you ask?


And? I was only responding to one post that was saying don't climb for grades. I don't see any problem in doing that, if that's what takes your fancy. Again, not sure what your point is, I think mine is obvious (as just explained).

In reply to Kirill:

Graeme's got you sorted out - have fun.

I am only posting back to echo another previous suggestion: from what you write, I think you might get on with the crack routes at Millstone - and not just the E1's: 'Regent Street' should be right up your alley.

Anyway you now have loads to go at: enjoy it.

In reply to Kirill:

+1 for Delectable Direct at Lawrencefield, I thought this was quality.

In reply to Graeme Hammond:


Well put. As you say, this approach can work well whether targeting VS or E4 (for example)

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Great route - but felt bold to me at the top!

long talk sally felt pretty good for e1 too.