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Rubble have an ultegra di2 upgrade kit for just short of £700 . everything else being equal ( pricing same bike with and without ) would you buy a new bike and immediatly upgrade if on paper it would save you £300 ? A local shop has hinted they would carry out the work for a small cost ( not as yet specified ) and I seem to think there maybe issues with DIY but I don't really know .
Edit : I know that theoretically this shouldn't happen but the bike without di2 is available at a very good price in the sales.
Edit : it has just occurred to me that I would also be "up" a set of ultegra shifters , a front and rear mech .
Post edited at 08:52
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In reply to mike123:
If I wanted that bike with Di2 Ultegra, and it was the cheapest way to do it, then yes.
If I wanted that bike with Di2 Ultegra, and it was the cheapest way to do it, then yes.
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In reply to Bogwalloper:
If only do that if I was really concerned about weight, and to be honest most of us could shift at least a kilo of our own fleshy hides. Electric gears seem to be far superior.
If only do that if I was really concerned about weight, and to be honest most of us could shift at least a kilo of our own fleshy hides. Electric gears seem to be far superior.
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I'm trying to find possible downsides and kind of hoped somebody would say something or other won't be compatible , there are few old ish threads on the bike forums but nothing much to put me off .
I'm trying to find possible downsides and kind of hoped somebody would say something or other won't be compatible , there are few old ish threads on the bike forums but nothing much to put me off .
Post edited at 07:27
In reply to mike123:
Why are you hoping to be put off?
> I'm trying to find possible downsides and kind of hoped somebody would say something or other won't be compatible , there are few old ish threads on the bike forums but nothing much to put me off .
Why are you hoping to be put off?
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
I generally subscrinbe to the idea that if something seems too good to be true then it probably is . I have the niggling feeling that if I go ahead and do this the bike will never be quiet as good as if had just paid the extra for di2 from the factory . after endless trips to expensive mechanics somebody will no doubt say " ah yes , it never works quiet as well when it's retro fitted " . I think Im around to the idea that the potential saving isnt worth the very slight risk that a new toy won't be as shiny as it should be . Also if I procrastinate much longer the bike will no longer be available and that will be problem solved .
I generally subscrinbe to the idea that if something seems too good to be true then it probably is . I have the niggling feeling that if I go ahead and do this the bike will never be quiet as good as if had just paid the extra for di2 from the factory . after endless trips to expensive mechanics somebody will no doubt say " ah yes , it never works quiet as well when it's retro fitted " . I think Im around to the idea that the potential saving isnt worth the very slight risk that a new toy won't be as shiny as it should be . Also if I procrastinate much longer the bike will no longer be available and that will be problem solved .
Post edited at 07:51
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In reply to mike123:
Some newer Di2 specific bikes have built in batteries and stuff to make it neater.
Also as far as I know the cables are narrower than standard gear cable so you need to take that into consideration if the bike has internal cable routing or it'll rattle.
Otherwise if that's the cheapest way to get the Di2 bike you want then I'd go for it, seems weird that the pricing works out that way to me however.
Edit:obviously the first point may be moot if they're identical frames with different spec.
Another though that's just popped up is maybe there are gaps elsewhere in the spec on the cheaper one? Wheels/bars and stuff.
Some newer Di2 specific bikes have built in batteries and stuff to make it neater.
Also as far as I know the cables are narrower than standard gear cable so you need to take that into consideration if the bike has internal cable routing or it'll rattle.
Otherwise if that's the cheapest way to get the Di2 bike you want then I'd go for it, seems weird that the pricing works out that way to me however.
Edit:obviously the first point may be moot if they're identical frames with different spec.
Another though that's just popped up is maybe there are gaps elsewhere in the spec on the cheaper one? Wheels/bars and stuff.
Post edited at 07:52
In reply to mike123:
For a few hundred more you could go etap wifi upgrade kit and go wireless and you could change it yourself. Only brake cables to run.
Cheers
Toby
For a few hundred more you could go etap wifi upgrade kit and go wireless and you could change it yourself. Only brake cables to run.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to mike123:
Sounds like you are not totally committed to the idea.
A lot of people seem to rate the SRAM electronic groupset as better than di2 and I gather there are no internal wires or batteries to worry about. Have you considered that as an alternative?
> I generally subscrinbe to the idea that if something seems too good to be true then it probably is . I have the niggling feeling that if I go ahead and do this the bike will never be quiet as good as if had just paid the extra for di2 from the factory . after endless trips to expensive mechanics somebody will no doubt say " ah yes , it never works quiet as well when it's retro fitted " . I think Im around to the idea that the potential saving isnt worth the very slight risk that a new toy won't be as shiny as it should be . Also if I procrastinate much longer the bike will no longer be available and that will be problem solved .
Sounds like you are not totally committed to the idea.
A lot of people seem to rate the SRAM electronic groupset as better than di2 and I gather there are no internal wires or batteries to worry about. Have you considered that as an alternative?
In reply to mike123:
I upgraded my Time Trial bike to Di2, i did it all myself with a mixture of used parts and new ones. The battery is in my seat tube and i had to get the BB removed so i could route the wires and junction box. Took me an hour or so to sort it all out
Chris
I upgraded my Time Trial bike to Di2, i did it all myself with a mixture of used parts and new ones. The battery is in my seat tube and i had to get the BB removed so i could route the wires and junction box. Took me an hour or so to sort it all out
Chris
In reply to mike123:
So, here's the list of things you'll need to do for a swap (not necessarily in this order!):
1 - remove and re-apply bar tape
2 - remove and re-fit shifters
3 - remove and re-fit brake cables - NOT hydraulic.
4 - remove and re-fit chain
5 - remove and re-fit front mech
6 - remove and re-fit rear mech
7 - replace gear cables with Di2 components
8 - install battery in seatpost
9 - connect it all up
10 - fit satelite shifters - optional.
11 - remove and re-fit bottom bracket.
Assuming the frame is Di2 compatible, then the only part that I wouldn't be looking forward to is re-taping the bars, as that's fiddly to get symmetrical, not to mention that removing the existing bar tape can be a pain if it's well stuck and will probably need replacing with new anyway.
I get the impression that the cabling can be fiddly, but I've not tried that myself - you can get kits to help pull the wires through, but probably worth pulling some string through the frame when you pull the old ones out.
Having done all that, there's no reason why the bike shouldn't run perfectly - plus, you'll be able to eBay the old components as new and offset a bit of the cost.
Personally, I wouldn't bother, as I'm quite happy with mechanical shifting and I'd spend the money upgrading the wheels instead.
Edit - forgot to add bottom bracket to the list. If it's screw-in then fine, if it's press-fit, that would be a pain.
So, here's the list of things you'll need to do for a swap (not necessarily in this order!):
1 - remove and re-apply bar tape
2 - remove and re-fit shifters
3 - remove and re-fit brake cables - NOT hydraulic.
4 - remove and re-fit chain
5 - remove and re-fit front mech
6 - remove and re-fit rear mech
7 - replace gear cables with Di2 components
8 - install battery in seatpost
9 - connect it all up
10 - fit satelite shifters - optional.
11 - remove and re-fit bottom bracket.
Assuming the frame is Di2 compatible, then the only part that I wouldn't be looking forward to is re-taping the bars, as that's fiddly to get symmetrical, not to mention that removing the existing bar tape can be a pain if it's well stuck and will probably need replacing with new anyway.
I get the impression that the cabling can be fiddly, but I've not tried that myself - you can get kits to help pull the wires through, but probably worth pulling some string through the frame when you pull the old ones out.
Having done all that, there's no reason why the bike shouldn't run perfectly - plus, you'll be able to eBay the old components as new and offset a bit of the cost.
Personally, I wouldn't bother, as I'm quite happy with mechanical shifting and I'd spend the money upgrading the wheels instead.
Edit - forgot to add bottom bracket to the list. If it's screw-in then fine, if it's press-fit, that would be a pain.
Post edited at 15:18
In reply to mike123:
If you're set on Di2 it seems a good way of buying it especially if you bung the excess kit on eBay. However if you're asking whether Di2 it's self is worth the money I can happily rant for hours on the topic?
If you're set on Di2 it seems a good way of buying it especially if you bung the excess kit on eBay. However if you're asking whether Di2 it's self is worth the money I can happily rant for hours on the topic?
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
However if you're asking whether Di2 it's self is worth the money I can happily rant for hours on the topic?
Are you pro or against?
Personally I'm not convinced it's the best upgrade for your buck...
However if you're asking whether Di2 it's self is worth the money I can happily rant for hours on the topic?
Are you pro or against?
Personally I'm not convinced it's the best upgrade for your buck...
In reply to mike123:
I wouldn't, but that's becasue I don't want to upgrade to di2. You clearly do, and this deal would be cheaper over all for you, so the real question is, how much do you want di2?
I wouldn't, but that's becasue I don't want to upgrade to di2. You clearly do, and this deal would be cheaper over all for you, so the real question is, how much do you want di2?
In reply to balmybaldwin:
I'm against.
In my experience the main benefit of it is meant to be the "improved shifting" but it doesn't feel any better than a correctly set up mechanical to me. The downsides are that its expensive to buy, heavier and harder to maintain.
Imagine if everyone used electronic shifters and someone invented a new mechanical system that was lighter, cheaper to make and never needed charging we'd probably all be paying loads to upgrade to that!
I'm against.
In my experience the main benefit of it is meant to be the "improved shifting" but it doesn't feel any better than a correctly set up mechanical to me. The downsides are that its expensive to buy, heavier and harder to maintain.
Imagine if everyone used electronic shifters and someone invented a new mechanical system that was lighter, cheaper to make and never needed charging we'd probably all be paying loads to upgrade to that!
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In reply
Sean Kelly was asked about Di2 a few years ago, whether he used it and/or would recommend it. He said "no" and "something only for the pro peloton". Di2 has become much cheaper than when he was asked.
Do you really need it? Probably not. But... it is nice to have shiny stuff.
It's dead easy to install, tricky bit is internal cabling which is easy if you have the tool (know any electricians?). Bar tape is easy enough to do, practice it without removing the backing tape. Some good instructional videos on Youtube (pay attention to left and right and wrap direction) and you'll be away. If you are cack handed then visit your lbs.
+1 for mechanical DA over Di2 Ultegra
Sean Kelly was asked about Di2 a few years ago, whether he used it and/or would recommend it. He said "no" and "something only for the pro peloton". Di2 has become much cheaper than when he was asked.
Do you really need it? Probably not. But... it is nice to have shiny stuff.
It's dead easy to install, tricky bit is internal cabling which is easy if you have the tool (know any electricians?). Bar tape is easy enough to do, practice it without removing the backing tape. Some good instructional videos on Youtube (pay attention to left and right and wrap direction) and you'll be away. If you are cack handed then visit your lbs.
+1 for mechanical DA over Di2 Ultegra
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Good point. And as someone else pointed out, using that money for a wheel upgrade is probably more beneficial.
> I'm against.
> In my experience the main benefit of it is meant to be the "improved shifting" but it doesn't feel any better than a correctly set up mechanical to me. The downsides are that its expensive to buy, heavier and harder to maintain.
> Imagine if everyone used electronic shifters and someone invented a new mechanical system that was lighter, cheaper to make and never needed charging we'd probably all be paying loads to upgrade to that!
Good point. And as someone else pointed out, using that money for a wheel upgrade is probably more beneficial.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
Why would you need to go through the hassle of replacing the bottom bracket, and by implication the crankset?
Why would you need to go through the hassle of replacing the bottom bracket, and by implication the crankset?
In reply to kevin stephens:
You need to take it out to route the wires through - then you can put it back in.
You need to take it out to route the wires through - then you can put it back in.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
Agreed wheels are the way to go IMO.
Still if you're going to enjoy Di2 then go for it. We're all just riding for fun anyway.
Agreed wheels are the way to go IMO.
Still if you're going to enjoy Di2 then go for it. We're all just riding for fun anyway.
In reply to all:
Thanks for the input all , still keep changing my mind as stripping down a news bike seems wrong .
Thanks for the input all , still keep changing my mind as stripping down a news bike seems wrong .
In reply to mike123:
Not just seems wrong. It is wrong. Periodical.
> stripping down a news bike seems wrong .
Not just seems wrong. It is wrong. Periodical.
In reply to mike123:
Another vote for mechanical Dura Ace... I've had Ultegra on all my bikes and I even upgraded my Roubaix SL4 from Ultegra 6700 (first generation of hidden cabling) to the much better 6800, which has different cable pull ratios so works better. Changing the entire groupset was a ballache but definitely worth it and I sold the old stuff on Eblag.
However for my 60th birthday I bought myself a naughty Italian race bike with Dura Ace and it is quite stunningly good; people say it's the same as Ultegra but it's not, it's better. Light, superb quality, requires no adjustment and is more precise than Ultegra. I feel no compunction to go electronic especially as I can't quite bring myself to believe an electronic system won't let me down one day in the middle of the Dales or Bowland fells.
Another vote for mechanical Dura Ace... I've had Ultegra on all my bikes and I even upgraded my Roubaix SL4 from Ultegra 6700 (first generation of hidden cabling) to the much better 6800, which has different cable pull ratios so works better. Changing the entire groupset was a ballache but definitely worth it and I sold the old stuff on Eblag.
However for my 60th birthday I bought myself a naughty Italian race bike with Dura Ace and it is quite stunningly good; people say it's the same as Ultegra but it's not, it's better. Light, superb quality, requires no adjustment and is more precise than Ultegra. I feel no compunction to go electronic especially as I can't quite bring myself to believe an electronic system won't let me down one day in the middle of the Dales or Bowland fells.
Post edited at 09:18
In reply to mike123:
I don't know, the way most (mainstream) shops build them it'd be one of the first things I'd do.
> Thanks for the input all , still keep changing my mind as stripping down a news bike seems wrong .
I don't know, the way most (mainstream) shops build them it'd be one of the first things I'd do.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
I'd say there's no more chance (less, probably) of Di2 letting you down than mechanical. I've run Di2 on three bikes, ridden year round in all sorts of cak and never had a problem. No cable stretch, perfect shifting every time without any tweaking.
I've noticed that the hire shops in Mallorca seem to be offering Di2 on loads of bikes now without much, if anything, of a premium - I wonder if that's because whilst initial cost is higher the ongoing maintenance is a lot less. Just charge them once every couple of weeks - whereas with mechanical groupsets on hire bikes you'll have cables to replace fairly frequently (assuming the bikes'll be doing anything from 250-500 miles a week).
> I feel no compunction to go electronic especially as I can't quite bring myself to believe an electronic system won't let me down one day in the middle of the Dales or Bowland fells.
I'd say there's no more chance (less, probably) of Di2 letting you down than mechanical. I've run Di2 on three bikes, ridden year round in all sorts of cak and never had a problem. No cable stretch, perfect shifting every time without any tweaking.
I've noticed that the hire shops in Mallorca seem to be offering Di2 on loads of bikes now without much, if anything, of a premium - I wonder if that's because whilst initial cost is higher the ongoing maintenance is a lot less. Just charge them once every couple of weeks - whereas with mechanical groupsets on hire bikes you'll have cables to replace fairly frequently (assuming the bikes'll be doing anything from 250-500 miles a week).
In reply to andy: likewise the OH s di2 is coming up for 2 years old and has not missed a beat , it's done several thousand km and never had anything touched other than battery recharges . She did say a couple of days ago that she thought the battery hadn't held charge last week and without googling it I suggested she consider replacing the battery soon . Conservatively I d would say its done 7000km and is almost bang on 2 years old . Have you had to replace any of the batteries yet ?
In reply to mike123:
Not batteries replaced yet - but I did replace the battery holder on my first Di2 bike after c9k miles and four winters - it's an external battery holder (newer bikes are seat post batteries) and just started being a bit wonky. Worth checking if it's the holder or the battery (the holder has a lot of clever gubbins in, I think) if it's external as it gets a lot of crap down near the bottom bracket.
Not batteries replaced yet - but I did replace the battery holder on my first Di2 bike after c9k miles and four winters - it's an external battery holder (newer bikes are seat post batteries) and just started being a bit wonky. Worth checking if it's the holder or the battery (the holder has a lot of clever gubbins in, I think) if it's external as it gets a lot of crap down near the bottom bracket.
In reply to mike123:
I've tried Di2 on a couple of bikes and while I agree that it's excellent and a joy to use I simply cannot find it in myself to justify paying more money to add more weight (admittedly not much) and more complication when Ultegra and DA work so well. Perhaps one day I will come round to it!
I've tried Di2 on a couple of bikes and while I agree that it's excellent and a joy to use I simply cannot find it in myself to justify paying more money to add more weight (admittedly not much) and more complication when Ultegra and DA work so well. Perhaps one day I will come round to it!
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