UKC

Does anyone have an electric road bike or have any thoughts on whether it would be a good idea for a 12 mile (24 round trip) relatively flat commute?

I just started considering it yesterday and read they’re capped at 25kph but can have a range of around 100miles on a charge. Do they work that you could expect to maintain that speed the whole way (barring traffic and junctions etc.)? If so it would only be about 45 mins commute which I think would be quicker or the same as driving in rush hour when you consider all the city centre rush hour traffic and actually walking from office to car park etc.

I’m assuming it would be much easier than a non-ebike, is that fair?

Anything else I should be considering? I probably would only do it in fair weather. I’ve been cycling for years but only irregularly, but am reasonably fit.

In reply to elliot.baker:

A standard road bike would easily do 12mph on the flat and it wouldn’t take long to build fitness to average 16mph (45 minutes) on the flat. Why wouldn’t you take the opportunity to build/maintain basic fitness, save money and reduce worry of theft?

In reply to elliot.baker:

Basically I think the answer is yes it will do what you want. I don't have an ebike but my mum does and I've had a go and seen the difference it made to her cycling.

Only things I'd consider: so you have some where pretty secure to leave it during the day? I definitely wouldn't be leaving it locked on the street. Bear in mind ebikes are often longer and considerably heavier than a regular bike so it might be hard to bring inside your office if that was your plan.

I'd also note that you probably don't need a 'road bike' to get the speed you want. More generic ebikes seem to manage it and then you get the advantages of more comfortable upright position, mud guards, luggage racks etc 

Finally I'd say ignore the naysayers. Sure it's possible to do that commute on a normal bike, but you obviously don't feel like that, and ebike still gives you some exercise while having the positive externalities of cycling.

In reply to kevin stephens:

One factor that may be relevant, to make to most of a non e road bike is that you may be best wearing cycling clothes and shoes so could need changing and possibly shower facilities which wouldn’t be so important for a hybrid type e bike, but as you are a 33 year old runner the non e bike may make more sense?

In reply to elliot.baker:

It will be easier than a non electric.  if it's flat, the weight won't make much difference and you'll probably pedal without assistance quite a lot.  If there's a head wind, or any sort of incline, the motor will help a lot.  A 12 mile each way daily commute is quite a lot, but you'll get used to it, with or without the motor.  Without a motor, extra stuff like a laptop makes a big difference.

Speaking as a now-retired long-term bike commuter: 13-23 miles each way every day into London - I used to cheat and drive some of the way quite a lot , because 46 miles a day every day was too much, especially when the return leg is predominantly uphill and into the head wind.  One particularly wet and windy winter, I nearly bought an electric bike.  I used to draft electric bikes on really nasty days if I could.  I got to know a French software engineer quite well that way - he'd tweaked his bike so that it did a lot more than 15mph.  We'd chat at traffic lights and then I'd sit behind him to the next set - around 100 sets of lights in each direction....

on a slow day -windy, wet, lights against you, luggage, lots of traffic, up hill on the way home I'd average 12mph.  On a fast day - summer, dry, no luggage, light traffic, I'd average 17mph. Typically was 14-15 mph.  I used to plan on about £1/day for maintenance (tyres, chain etc)

In reply to elliot.baker:

I used to cycle exactly that distance commute and loved it on good weather days…not so much in the cold and damp in November.

Best solution is get a normal bike and an e-bike 😀 

In reply to elliot.baker:

I reckon about 12 miles is the reasonable upper limit for bike commuting if you're doing it every day - takes around 40-45 mins, depending on traffic/lights. Long enough to feel you've done something, but not too knackering or too much time compared to driving. I used to do 11 miles 2/3 times a week, depending on weather/work/kids. You do though have to factor in getting changed, locking bike up, etc.

So yes, an e-bike would be a good choice - my cousin does something similar, partly because it's very hilly around where he lives.

Worth having a good look at what route/roads you'd cycle - would it be the same as the car journey or could you take an alternative on quieter roads/cycle tracks/etc? In my case, the car would be motorway, the bike would be A-roads. There was an option of a convoluted off-road route along rural tow paths, but I figured that would be too slow and too many gates, etc.

I used an old road bike and sometimes my hybrid or mountain bike (with slicks on!) when that was off the road. Personally, I preferred the road bike as the bars are much narrower and easier to filter past traffic, although others will advocate for a more upright position for a better view.

In reply to elliot.baker:

A regular bike? 20km isn't that far if your fit and the weather is nice. Should only take your stipulated 45 min. 

In reply to ianstevens:

Depends how hilly it is.  Because the assist kicks out at 25km/h which a fit cyclist can easily reach (and even a relatively unfit one on a skinny tyred road bike) the effect of e-bikes is mostly to remove hills.  How much the OP cares about this depends on their route.  12 miles across the Fens or West Lancashire, probably a bit of a waste of money.  12 miles across the Chilterns, almost certainly worth it if you don't want to arrive in a big puddle of sweat.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Some background: I used to commute (non-e bikes) about that distance, but over hilly terrain and not every day - just when I felt like it (e.g., it wasn't raining).

(a) Security: Where will you store the bike? Bikes are unfortunately very nickable. I sometime used my 'nice' bike which was locked up either in an underground garage or a locked mesh shed, but I was never really happy about finding it still there at the end of the day. The business park security regularly sent out notices about people seen nicking locked-up bikes. I don't recall them doing any about it other than sending emails . I tended to prefer using my old worthless hardtail unless I was expecting to take the 'scenic' route home. An e-bike will be much more 'attractive' in not-a-good way.

(b) Although slightly slower, I found a flat-bar bike with decent robust tyres better in urban traffic when commuting particularly when carrying a backpack with laptop, clothes etc., A carbon fibre drop-bar racer with a 30L backpack seemed like having a Ferrari with a towbar.

(c) Commuting time: A bike might be quicker door to door, but you should factor in the extra time changing clothes, cooling down, showering (if relevant), locking up, unlocking, putting stuff to charge... All little things that will make a 45min commute more like an hour. I did it because I enjoyed the ride (usually, see below) rather than because it saved time.

(d) In an urban commute you WILL encounter drivers who will carelessly or maliciously put your life in danger. Can you deal mentally with that? I still reckon that bike commuting was more dangerous that climbing - I seemed to have an unavoidable full-contact 'incident' (e.g., someone driving into the back of me or pulling out of a side road without looking) once or twice a year.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Not when slowing down or stopping for traffic, junctions and traffic lights every 200m.

Not tried one, but an ebike might make an urban commute much easier, less sweaty and faster. 

In reply to elsewhere:

Depends on how disciplined you are: I can never manage an 'easy, sweat-free' ride: I always seem to ride at an 'enthusiastic' pace irrespective of whether I'm going to the shops or I'm on a training ride. I suspect I'd still get sweaty on an e-bike, it would just save a couple of minutes. YMMV.

In reply to elliot.baker:

I have a freind who does exactly this on an e bike and it seems a great solution for him. For context I commute 8 miles on a normal bike, which I enjoy as its quite roads and I like the exercise so appreciate where all the 'just get a normal bike' views are coming from. But if you plan to do this daily unless cycling is your thing it can grind you down in trerms if being tyring and a bit of a slog and if you want to make the your default commuting choice then an e bike is a good option. For info my freind with an e bike us not really any faster than me but puts in considerably less effort!

In reply to elliot.baker:

Its a good solution. A lightweight ebike is expensive, but anything over the 20 minute sweat threshold (*) its a worthwhile upgrade. I think I would have commuted more if I had had one. I wish the speed limit was upped to 30km per hour on ebikes, but that's the way they're made..

Just make sure it will take mudguards and a rack. I have an ortleib quickrack and pannier and it makes commuting sooooo much more comfortable in terms of sweatiness for me...

I used to do just over 30k each way 2 or three times a week, but picked days... and sometimes it was real hard with headwinds etc etc... having to stop on the way home for an emergency sandwich from the co-op store on route... feeling very tired in the afternoon... I had showers, a place in my office for the bike and a radiator to dry my clothes out... Now, I have to park my bike outside, there are showers if I needed them, but the commute is only 15-20 mins and I just change into work clothes at work from baggy shorts and a merino wool t shirt. 

I think i'd probably aim for something like the Ribble CGR e base model... but maybe not ribble if they are going through one of thier funny patches on delivery etc.

Can you get one on cycle to work scheme?

(* I can do a 20 minute cycle to work and not get too sweaty, by controlling the speed and what I wear. After that, I'm sweaty and need a shower.)

In reply to Marek:

I do occasionally use Mrs J's ebike for this reason, but that tends to be in trips of under 4 miles

I would be the same on the OP's 12 mile commute. 

In reply to elsewhere:

I often hire them in London to get between the station and the office (a couple of miles).  What I find is that they do make it easier, but not *much* easier, and it depends what type.  A Lime bike is almost like riding a moped, it takes off quickly at lights with little pedal pressure (it feels like the sensor on these is just rotation rather than pressure), whereas a TfL one just provides assistance so you reach 20mph-ish a bit more quickly, but annoyingly doesn't provide much assistance when starting out so you still need to use the gears unless you've got good knees.  The TfL one is also good on hills, though London isn't exactly full of them unless you're sarf ov da Rivva.

I suspect it's probably actually less effort to ride a skinny tyred road bike in London than a TfL ebike, given how heavy and clunky they are.  But I don't know, given London's awful potholed roads, how people who do do that manage not to get punctures (or worse) every day.

Hills really are the killer app for them though.  MK is fairly hilly (not mountainous but a lot of up and down under/over roads), I used a Lime bike to get back from the station last night and it made a huge difference every time I had to dip down and back up to negotiate an underpass, but on the flat I was pedalling fast enough for the assistance to drop out anyway.  Starting out it saved using the gears, though, which was nice.

I'll probably treat myself to some sort of e-hybrid at some point, I reckon.  Only downside is the issue of them getting nicked too easily, would certainly need good insurance.

In reply to elliot.baker:

I commute 10miles each way on the flat.

Sometimes I take my wife's e-bike and it is so nice as I don't work up a sweat and so don't have to change clothes. One thing to be aware of, you need to dress like you are walking as you don't generate much heat

Euge

In reply to elliot.baker:

The motor assistance cuts out when you reach 25kmph but there's nothing to stop you pedalling faster than that if you are capable of doing so e.g. on downhills.

I think the type of electric assistance might make a difference.  My Bosch mid-drive eMTB disengages the drive from/to the motor above 25kmph (you can hear the clutch dinging as it does so*) so there's minimal to no pedalling resistance from the motor.  Front drive or rear drive systems may operate differently, as may other mid-drive systems - I wouldn't know as I've never ridden any other ebike.

* Contrary to what some people claim/report I don't find that I suddenly 'hit a wall' when the motor assistance cuts out.  It may depend on what assistance level you're using - it would probably be noticeable using Turbo mode on a steep/long climb but TBH I'm unlikely to reach the cutoff speed in that kind of situation anyway.  On the flat or downhill I don't notice a distinct transition point in effort as my speed increases past the cutoff.

In reply to Martin W:

You also get very different assistance from the different drive types.  Mid drive is more like the experience of riding a normal bike, just with a bit of assistance, while front drive gives you an "easier" experience with less gear changing etc and a powerful start but the feel is a bit more like riding an underpowered moped.  If you're near London and want to try out the two options before buying, just pop down there and have a play with both a Lime bike (front drive, or may even be both wheels, I forget) and a TfL one (mid drive).

In reply to Martin W:

I don't find it that noticeable either, other than in aerobic effects (i.e. because I'm riding a normal bike at that point it's a bit more effort).

In reply to elliot.baker:

Have a word with the local Deliveroo crew; they will yell you how to remove the 25kph regulation. Or the local yoof razzing around at 50kph on their e-trail bikes. If you can catch them...

Secure storage is a must, whether normal bike or ebike; I haven't ridden a bike into town in 20 years, because there are too many thieves, and CCTV is no deterrent.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Thanks all loads to think about here. I think I would want a bike with a rack and paniers so maybe I don't mean a full-bore 'road bike' but a hybrid or something, though I think I would prefer drop handlebars. I'm not sure what security situation is like but I presume you can get insurance and the most secure lock, though I gather no lock is invulnerable. I'm sure there would be a secure staff bike shed or something.

Lot's of people suggesting to just do it on a normal bike, I suppose I could do that but was just thinking of making life easier. I wouldn't be doing it for fitness I'd just be doing it to avoid traffic. I looked back on a random recent short road bike ride I did on a totally flat road and my average speed was about 17kph, I have done very little road bike riding in my life I mainly used to do MTB on a full-susser.

100% I would need a shower before work I can't even walk from a train station without breaking a sweat (too much coffee perhaps?!), even though I could run a marathon. Never really understood that.

Looking at the map I think there are several routes I could take between 12 miles min (mostly flat on a busy A-road but perhaps a bit of cycle path towards the end) and 15 miles (very hilly but almost exclusively on narrow and potentially quieter country roads). Perhaps the e-bike could make doing the longer, hilly route more relaxing and sustainable.

I have never ridden an e-bike before - I think the ones I'm looking at don't have hub motors it's like assisted pedalling - what is it like going up a hill? Does it make it feel as easy as the flat or are you still standing and pushing as hard as you can to even move? I've always assumed you would just breeze up hills as effortlessly as being on the flat... that's why I want one!

In reply to elliot.baker:

I almost posted before that if your commute was very flat and not exposed to a strong headwind an e-bike might not make that much difference, but it would certainly make a hilly 15 miles feel as easy (if not easier) than a flat 12.

It does depend on the motor, Mrs J's new bike is noticeably more powerful than her 10 year old one. With her new one, there is  a 10% section on the way home from the shops. If I put it into turbo, even after loading up after the "big shop" I don't have to pedal hard at all. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

It'll depend how heavy you are, how heavy the bike is and how powerful the motor is, but I'd not say going up a steep hill on an ebike is zero effort, it's just easier than a normal bike.

If you get a chance to get down to London I would - might even be worth investing in a trip down given that an e-bike is going to cost you at least £2K or so - the TfL e-bikes are mid-motored as most are and you can ride around on one and see what it feels like.  Or if you'd prefer to try one out somewhere a bit nicer than taking your life in your hands riding around London, plenty of places in rural touristy areas like the Lakes hire them these days, try one out in some nice scenery instead

If you like drops and want to fit panniers an e-tourer is probably the way to go.

In reply to Neil Williams:

I'm just reading a review of the first e-tourer that came up on Google, the "Ribble Hybrid AL e" and the Bike Radar review says it's a rear hub mounted motor and

"This system provides just enough assistance when you need it: more of a gentle push in the back than a surge of torque-laden power."

I feel like that's not what I pictured in my mind, I wasn't imagining a "gentle push" I was imagining me putting in fairly minimal effort and just cruising along at the motors top speed whether I'm going uphill or on the flat ... is that an unrealistic expectation or all e-bikes or just this particular bike / type of motor?

In reply to elliot.baker:

Ever ridden a Lime bike?  They're close to that, though being heavy I do need to put some effort in up a steep hill.

If that's what you want you'll want a quite powerful motor, though I'm not quite sure what constitutes that.

In reply to elliot.baker:

i can recommend the Tongsheng tsdz2 mid-drive conversion kit although only e-bike i've tried..

In reply to elliot.baker:

I was only half joking about the Deliveroo riders. Unregulated bikes need no effort at all; no pedalling from you. They're illegal, mind, but there seems to be absolutely no enforcement.

In reply to elliot.baker:

I have this bike which I use for a 15km (each way) commute 3 days a week. This is London where there’s a lot of lights and stopping (at least I do).

It’s definitely a lot less effort if you’re prepared to cruise at its maximum speed, which I find requires quite a bit of discipline. I used to ride a road bike which was a lot quicker. To go at the maximum assistance you just need to keep the pedals turning. The acceleration is a bit less than a Lime but much more progressive. 

The speed limit of 15mph is pretty low (one could get a device to increase this to 18 but still). Once you go beyond that there is much more resistance than on a road bike (plus heavier, wider tires). The battery generally is enough to get me there and back but I have run it flat in a cold and windy day with the lights I added on. Then it’s a bit of a dog to ride but really this is avoidable. 

The biggest advantage I’ve found is in the cold and wet as you can wear a lot more clothes without overheating (again you have to be a bit judicious on how much effort you put in). You could just about commute in your work clothes and not need a shower if it was dry conditions.
 

All in all it’s been great. It’s meant I can ride to the wall on the way to work and not be tired from the cycling. I’d make the same decision to get it again. I’ll probably get the roadie out again in the summer but for now, happy trundling along.

In reply to elliot.baker:

I know you wanted answers to practical questions and I think you've got most of them. I wanted to mention something else, from the point of view of someone who does a 30-mile round trip commute in very hilly country in W Yorks, though only 2 of those 30 miles are on road.

I look forward to commuting. I'm lucky to have a job that I love and even so, the start and end of every day are a joy. I used to do it on my acoustic bike using the shorter & flatter on-road route and, although I love riding that bike still, commuting on it felt like work. The electric changes that feeling so that I'm in a good mood when I arrive at work and when I get home.

My recommendation would be to get an ebike and find a longer & hillier but quieter, more scenic, and if possible car-free route. Might take a bit of mapwork and exploration but if you can connect bridleways, cycle paths, greenways, canals, unmetalled roads and whatever else to hash out a route of your own, I think you'll see what it can do for your general quality of life.

In reply to elliot.baker:

My 2cents is that I commute 7 miles each way, it's a fairly uppy-downy route and I ride an old road bike.  On days I have ridden into and out of work I am physically tired at the end of the day, this can be a nice golden glow as I slip between the sheets but also means I have less energy to do other stuff in the evenings. 

Good luck!

In reply to Bobling:

I used to do a commute of that sort of length and felt similarly about it.  If I still did it I'd definitely have an e-bike by now.

In reply to elliot.baker:

I'd go for a hybrid e-bike with a mid-motor and a torque sensor.

It'll run fine without the motor and give you a sweat free ride to work with the engine on. Ride home without the engine for the exercise, knowing you can shower and change when you get there.

Fit a rack and panniers for your laptop and any shopping on the way home. And get the beefiest motorbike chain/paddock that you can afford - a good one will be over £100. Worth it.

Derestricting the motor will invalidate the guarantee. In France you can do that provided you have vehicle insurance and a number plate cos you're then considered to be a moped; same in England ?

Reiser-Mueller make good full-strength e-bikes which'll really do 45kmh; not cheap though.

In reply to featuresforfeet:

Thanks this is helpful, but are you saying the battery occasionally runs out after 30km? I thought they lasted 100 miles+ but maybe that’s a different type of bike/motor/battery 

In reply to elliot.baker:
I can’t remember what the quoted range of my one is but yes, it has run out after 30km once. 
Temperature (this was in January) and headwinds can make a big difference plus I wired a set of lights into mine which also drain the battery.

I guess the point is have a healthy margin between the quoted range and how far you’re going.

In reply to elliot.baker:

I think Mr J's is quoted at 100 miles or so but that will be with the least assistance (eco mode) She has done 40 miles on an undulating route using full power on the up hills, at the end of that ride, the sensor said, she had 6 miles left. 

Mrs J's has a 400Wh battery which is mid/low range, I know people with 900Wh on the mountainbikes. I think all motors are rated at  250W, but the torque they can generate is important. Mrs J's is 75Nm, which again, seems to be mid range, of the ones we were looking at 

In reply to elliot.baker:

I’ve a hybrid mid motor (Bosch) bike (I’ve only had Bosch powered bikes over the last 10 years so can’t comment on others) and it theoretically can do well over 100 miles. So yes manufacturer’s marketing it is reasonable to say that but that comes with if this and if that.

Realistically it is unlikely to get the max advertised range unless you deliberately ride to get that (compare with car fuel consumptions advertised and realistic usage figures). That said I’ve never really tried to as get max as what is the point in getting a motor on a bike and then not using it!

On easy level ish stuff on mine, 85 miles is more my expectation of achievable.

On one of your other questions, (I wasn't imagining a "gentle push" …..is that an unrealistic expectation or all e-bikes or just this particular bike / type of motor?), I can assure you with Bosch mid motor using the higher assistances you will get far more than a gentle push! Turbo for example will feel like a highly tuned sports car raring to go when on the flat. Far too much for slow stuff about town, imho, unless straight line or going up a steep hill to tame it.

Also, you will never need to stand up on the pedals on normal roads - if you did on any steep slope/loose surface you will likely loose traction first (depending on assistance setting of course).

Disadvantages of B mid motor hybrid - weight, costs. Prob tech has moved on but my bike heavy if carrying/lifting over gates but is still effortless in use with the range of assistance levels available.

I’ve got mine with the (legal) setting of variable torque depending on the pressure put on the pedals which helps conserve battery whilst still being able to use full torque in an instant (without you need to manually change the settings).

Theft considerations, and higher maintenance costs (higher chain wear for example), have to be considered. I’ve got (relatively cheap) insurance through my home policy, but many policies are pretty expensive and usually have clauses that could be very restrictive.