UKC

My kids ( and me ) are really excited to get up glen tress to ride the new trails which look awesome and look to be well worth the wait  . We live in west Cumbria so not that far from most of the 7 stanes which are all great . I m puzzled though by the  different attitude of forestry Scotland who seem to be very pro mtb compared to “ forestry England “ who seem to be not that bothered. There has been some  repair work at whinlatter recently but nothing new for a good few years . I’m interested if anybody on here has any thoughts on this ?

In reply to mike123:

Whinlatter seems quite an outlier when compared to a few of the other Northern trails built on forestry land in England. Stainburn, Hamsterley  and Dalby all have active trail volunteer groups that regularly go out and maintain the trails, the Hamsterley group are  the most active by far and are constantly out there getting work done and keeping the red route in a good condition. I'm guessing local riders in the lakes don't have the same need to interact with the FC trails in the same way with the sheer amount of riding available on the fells digging on the south loop for a whole Saturday probably feels like a waste.

In reply to tomsan91:

I think the volunteers at Gisburn are pretty active as well, but been a few years since I've ridden/raced there. 

In reply to tomsan91: maybe that’s what’s lacking . My teenage kids would ( and do )  spend all weekend digging and be happy as teenagers in mud . I think I was more thinking about the attitude of the forestry in general but it hadn’t occurred to me that it was maybe not all English trail centres . I ll maybe ask around and  see if the forestry would allow some  work party’s.  . My post was prompted by the contrast between whinlatter and glen tress and I think I was  confusing what happens here  with a general attitude . I agree that hamsterly and gisburn prove that attitude of  forestry  differ from forest to forest 

In reply to mike123:

Just looking at Whinlatter and Glentress (and with no real knowledge!), Glentress and the other 7 Stanes have done a pretty decent job of bringing a lot of money into areas of the Borders. Glentress also frequently hosts international races and has some high-level (Scottish squad?) racers based there, uni courses run there etc. It's going to get a lot of money spent on it.

Whinlatter is just another visitor attraction in the lakes. I haven't ridden there for years because I think there's way better stuff to ride close by. It always seemed to be built as a bit of an afterthought in a way. It's not a top-tier trail centre, it doesn't host major events and it's not really dragging much extra cash into the area. So Glentress is always going to get more money spent on it. And the same goes for many of the other English trail centres really, even the ones that get lots of volunteer building - the volunteers are ace, but there's not a huge amount of backing because there's no real reason (for want of a better word) for it.

But yeah, those two aside, Forestry Scotland seem way more pro-mtb than Forestry England.

In reply to mike123:

Don’t forget though Glentress is/was partly what it is due to volunteers. I don’t know current position (since I’ve not been since 2020), but Glentress Trailfairies were active in trail maintenance, plus there are others who have developed new trails (eg off map ones) over the years.

A lot of the more current improvements, recent past and proposed, are I believe more a partnership of organisations trying to attract more events and tourism into the area. Having the UCI championships at Glentress this year has been a big driver to improving the area on a longer term basis, and I think further developments are partly to make it easier to bid for future events and for tourism/local economy, etc. 

When visiting, remember, developments I think are ongoing till end of next year so there may (will) be some disruptions/ changes. 

In reply to twoshoes:

This may be the crux of it, along with so much quality riding elsewhere in the Lakes. I've visited the trails at Hamsterley and the one at Highcliffe Nab and they felt much more like the Tweed Valley in terms of development and popularity. Prior to the development in the Tweed valley, Peebles and especially Innerleithen were sleepy wee places. Peebles always had a bit of country old money but Inners was definitely the worker's village. Both of them, Inners especially have the feel of a biking resort now. Mountain biking in the Tweed Valley goes back to the mid-80s too, so it has a head start on most other places.

The Glentress off-piste, and of-course all of Golfie plus Inners, have world-class trails; just brilliant riding to be had; and all down (mostly) to the locals.  So good, they've hosted EWS.

In reply to mike123:

At the Forest of Dean, Forestry England have just taken over control of the trails and have spent quite a bit of money there. Looks good.

In reply to mike123:

The management of Whinlatter is a little unique, several years ago now they re worked the tracks and removed any feature that would grade them red or harder, levelled them etc.. so now they are pretty much just cycle paths. I think they've decided to make the trails accessible to all. Although some of Grizedale isn't much better. I'd suspect it's a lake district/cumbria FC office decision. 

In reply to twoshoes:

Yeah, it's chasing the beginners if anything, 15 years ago the trails were narrower, more technical and more natural features. Shame in a way,  as you could have some great full height runs down towards Braithwaite. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

Is there potential for some DIY/guerilla trail building like the enduro trails at Glentress//Golfie etc? I see the point in making the established Lakes trails easy as there are so many more technical routes available on various bridleways for more able riders.

In reply to 65:

People just take to hills instead and use paths there, hence the rise of many big loops, or smaller runs like down Grizedale head and hopegill head.

In reply to 65:

There is sketchy woodland Golfie-esque stuff in the area - check out Setmurthy woods or Dent - although I can't help more than that as some isn't meant to be ridden outside races and the rest I can't remember or don't know. Have a look on Trailforks or Strava or go for a poke around some of the nearby woods and see what you can find, especially if you're in west Cumbria.

Regarding building, it obviously depends on where you're looking, but a lot of places like the Golfie aren't really DIY any more. They're built and maintained on a semi-offical basis and with trail organisations behind them, so it's worth chatting to landowners or local riders/builders before digging anything, just to check you're not going to terminally piss anyone off. Setmurthy I think is a good example - building was tolerated, got a bit out of hand, became less tolerated, nearly got bulldozed and now there's a semi-offical trail building group to keep everyone happy. Going guerilla wouldn't be ideal. (I'm not local, so could be well off with that, but you get the idea.)

In reply to ExiledScot:

I find this move at whinlatter to be quite a strange one. Instead of expanding the trail network and following the UK mountain biking trend for longer travel bikes with a high percentage of those having electrical assistance and the folk riding them having a much higher overall skill level than back in the mid 2000s. The FC seem to be pressing on in the opposite direction, as time passes I think most of these venues across England will fall further outside the relevance of what is seen as a worthwhile mtbing trip. When the majority of mountain bikers own bikes that are so capable it's not hard to see why places like BPW and Dyfi are jam packed most of the week. 

In reply to tomsan91:

I don't think the average MTBer is their target audience, they want the one off lakes tourists who spend money on parking, use their cafe and tat shop. It's a commercial enterprise and nothing about using state owned forest for outdoor recreation. 

In reply to ExiledScot: thanks all for your contributions , they have given me much food for thought . My kids go up to “setters “!quiet a lot and they love it , I’m not so keen . We do ride lots of other places but Whinlatter is right on our door step . When I I come back from other venues or look at the  videos of the new trails at glen tress I realise how much scope there is for whinlatter to be so  much better , which of course is absolutely nothing to do with wanton self interest.