UKC

I'm putting together the final touches of a history for the next YG guide but sorting out a timeline of significant bouldering advances is difficult given that they have not been recorded and documented in the past quite as meticulously as the routes. Font 8a seems to be a significant milestone and was wondering which was the first in this area? Names and dates please.

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

If Jason's Roof (Crookrise) is still regarded as 8a (God - all the grades seem to have changed 10 times since I was bouldering on Yorkshire Grit!) then, it would be worth finding out the date for that?

Jason Myers at Wild Country should know!

Can't think of any 8as that are older off the top of my head.

Jack

In reply to Dave Musgrove: Dave I'll ask Jason for you....

In reply to Dave Musgrove: I think Jason's Roof, Curious Yellow at Ilkley (was that Ben Moon?) and Zoo York must be the favourites, perhaps Exorcist at the cliff? I can't think of any Dunne ones...

In reply to Arms Cliff:

I am splitting the history for the 2 volumes and already thought, for the Eastern area, that Zoo York in 2000 was pretty early. Not sure when the Exorcist was first done though. I haven't seen the scripts yet for Crookrise or Ilkley but know that Jason's Roof was 1996 (if it gets 8a in the new system). What about some of the Keel link ups - I believe some of them were fairly early and must get 8a on the conversion tables?

Dave

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

A question is, how should the history be split between volumes: geographical match; by type (bouldering in one, routes in the other); by chronology or by some other split?

I'm partly joking of course but there may be some thought due to this question as often what's going on elsewhere (and friendly neighbouring areas!) is important context and you don't want to be repeating yourself too much.

In reply to Dave Musgrove: Swanny would be the person to ask about the Keel link ups I guess, not sure when Gaskins did his problem on the Virgin either, if that is still considered 8A too. There's a man who has all the answers called Nemo who hopefully should be along shortly!

In reply to Offwidth:

I think I've got a pretty good geographic split so far with just a bit of overlap to keep things in context across the areas. Its just that bouldering has seen such a significant leap in both difficulty and apparent importance to so many over the last 15 years that its been difficult to keep up. (my bouldering ability lagging further and further behind the modern activists these days). Most new routes have been sent to me over the years but bouldering records rarely come in and those that have are somewhat confusing due to the variety of different grading systems used.

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

I'm sure it will be fine. I forgot to add there must be both excitement and nerves putting the bouldering explosion properly into a history.

Niall did the history with a lightish touch bouldering view in Froggatt. We read the draft with great anticipation (irrespective of his typically modest knocked-up-in-a-few-spare-moments-hope-its-alright pitch) and were not disappointed.

In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country: Dave, Jason writes
"Oh christ, check these dates out; Crookrise Roof – July 1996, Red Baron direct – October 1995. They’re about the same difficulty I thought, Crookrise roof perhaps a tad harder, though both have lots of scope for tricks + jessery to be developed over the decades. Could be Yorkshire 8a, definitely not Northumberland 8a."
Also he says
"There is some really gnarly stuff at Caley by Al Manson which pre dates even these by quite a time" but doesn't give any details...

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

Gaskins problem at Almscliffe I think Dave, 1994. As Mr Arms has said, Nemo will confirm.
I haven't done either but I think that both of Jasons classics have been demoted to 7c+. There's little chance of Gaskins problem following suit - I think it's only had two repeats in over 15 years?

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

Thanks to all for the info. I think I've got a much clearer picture of the chronology now. It certainly seems like the Gaskins on the Virgin is the winner as an 8a+ in 1994.

Dave

Sorry about the late reply - just got an email about this thread or I’d have missed it.

Dave, if you’re still at the same email as you’ve been for a while, then I’ll dig through some stuff and send you more info later in the week.

Right - I'm afraid this is more "confusion" than "confirmation" - it’s kind of complicated (but then you knew that!) The short answer is possibly The Gaskins Problem, and if not, then probably Zoo York. In more detail (yeah I know…. Yawn!!!!):

1. The Gaskins Problem (Almscliff) This is definitely 8A so no worries on the grade (it was done in 2002 by Tim Clifford and 2006 by Stuart Watson) – and it’s a great, non-eliminate problem. The question is whether this is actually what John Gaskins climbed in 1994. I’m not trying to start any controversies – I’m quite sure he did whatever he said he did. It’s just that how this was reported never really tallied with what has come to be known as Gaskins Problem. It’s obviously possible that what he actually climbed was “The Gaskins Problem” and the beta was just incorrectly described in the mags. But if the description was correct, then I suspect what he may actually have climbed was “Cherry Falls Right” – ie: get the Cherry Falls crimp with the LH and go straight for the break with RH. I’m not sure whether anyone (else) has ever climbed this (Uptown may know?) but I suspect 8A ish is probably fairly appropriate for this too. But it’s very much an eliminate and so hasn’t been described in lists / guides – and there were plenty of 8A or harder eliminates at Almscliff being done throughout the 90s.

When I had more patience with such things I did try to get to the bottom of this but didn’t get too far. It’s so long ago, I suspect John would either need to see a detailed picture or have a crag visit to remember exactly what he climbed.

2. Zoo York (Caley) This used to get 7C+, but these days everyone seems to think it’s a mid grade 8A (no holds have changed – just shifting grading systems). This was done by Christian Durkin before the ACD guide came out (2000) – thought it was 1997/1998 rather than 2000 but not entirely certain? (Think it was in the mags if anyone’s got an organised On The Edge stack)

If you’re wanting a definitive answer for the Gaskins Problem or a definite date for Zoo York, then Si Panton has both John and Christian’s contact details.


Other things which have been mentioned on this thread:

1. Jason’s Roof (Crookrise) - Done by Jason Myers in 1996. Various sequence improvements over the years. Some still think 8A but consensus is probably 7C+.

2. Red Baron Roof (Shipley) - Done by Jason Myers in 1995. Loads of different sequences and tricks figured out over time - consensus is 7C /7C+.

3. I Am Curious Yellow – done by Ben Moon in 2000 but consensus is 7C+.

4. Exorcist (Almscliff) – Definitely 8A and done in 2000 by Tim Clifford.


If you’re also taking into account epic link up traverses then:

1. Stu Littlefair traversed the entire Virgin Block in the late 90s (think 97 but not certain), starting on the easy face, going down the normal descent route wall, and then along the top break, down the Gypsy and the full extension traverse back to the easy face. Quite what possessed him to do this is up for debate! Don’t think anyone else has ever bothered repeating it but suspect 8A ish is about right. To be honest thought, if this turned out to be the first 8A in Yorkshire, then it would need downgrading out of sheer embarrassment!!! It’s got enough moves to be a 3 pitch route! (Before anyone has a fit, Stu’s own description of this was “utterly pointless”!!!)

2. All Natural – Andy Swann’s epic traverse on the Keel block – also 8A ish and done in 2000.

The other Keel link ups which are harder than 8A were done later (Reel Keel and Bulb done in mid 90s but both 7C+). There were loads of >8A eliminates at Almscliff done in the 90s though, but not anything worth considering in the history section of a guide.


Notable ascents in the higher grades are much easier to sort:
Super Furry Animal - Steve Dunning (2001) 8B ish but height dependent dyno – unrepeated and very hard to grade.
Cherry Falls - Tim Clifford (2002) 8A+ - grade confirmed after a number of repeats.
Cypher - Ben Moon (2002) 8B – grade confirmed after a number of repeats.
High Fidelity - Steve Dunning (2003) 8B – grade confirmed after a number of repeats.

In reply to Nemo:

Thanks Nemo, I never thought this was going to be easy! However its all good info so if you get any more please send it on.

I have had my current email address for about the last 5 years but if you have any problems send via the link from here.

Cheers,

Dave

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

Super Furry animal was repeated by Chris Davis I believe, 8b seems right. Cherry Falls seems hard for grade. Not sure what others who've done it think. Either top end 8a+ or soft 8b IMO.
Jason's roof feels pretty gnarly for 7c+, IMO 8a but I've never been able to get the toe jam in, which makes it feel easier apparently.

In reply to Tom Peckitt:
John Wainwright is an essential contact too. He's got encyclopaedic knowledge of Yorkshire and will probably be able to clear up most things

In reply to Tom Peckitt:

As illustrated above!

In reply to Tom Peckitt:

Thanks Tom, John has been in touch by email.

Dave

In reply to Adam Long and Dave Musgrove:

Ah, I think I hear a penny dropping!

Good luck with your research Dave, should be an interesting addition to the new guide. Looking forward to seeing it.