UKC

A mate of mine has just been to Snowden Crag to discover axle grease all over the holds. Access issues have been an issue in the past with parking, boulders placed to prevent parking.  But I suspect lamp sessions have probs been the final straw for the people living below. Or the land owner just does not like climbing. Either way a great venue trashed.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/snowden_crags_yorkshire_lamp_se...

Not sure who the Yorkshire BMC access rep is currently, but it would be good if they contacted the land owner to see what can be done. The Grease is mentioned on the UKC page.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/snowden_crags-16470/

Really surprised there are zero replies. BMC, local BMC, local climbers/boulderers, keyboard warriors…where are you.

possibly one of the most significant posts on this forums for a while about vandalised crag, lamping, access and not a word. Come on…

Nothing constructive to add other than that's really sad.. I've spent many a lovely hour there. Can axle grease be cleaned off at all? Fingers crossed ymc access rep can find a solution with the landowner too. It's really not that near the house...

Fairy liquid and water will get most grease off. Failing that I think rail depots use Swarfega Jizer which deals with thicker grease. 

That is the short term answer. The long term answer is the problem. We don’t want another Whitehouses with holds hammered off. 

Don't annoy people by lamping would be the obvious start.

UK CLIMBING

Yet we get more replies on a fecking cycling thread;

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/biking/petition_to_turn_all_prows_into_br...

What the Fuuck! UKC is lost.

Show support, passion and anger!

What were seeing is an esoteric local crag had been vandalised, which is bad, and you having a tantrum because UKC doesn't erupt into a record breaking megathread about your mate's bouldering session being cancelled.

The few people using this crag are the ones who have pissed off the landowner, and now can't use it any more. And you want the BMC to swoop in and make it all ok again so the few can ruin it for the many again?

Suggest you have a go at repairing your relationship with the neighbours yourself if you want sustainable, amicable access. Get a feel for what it takes and what you're asking of the BMC area reps. Let us know how you get on. Or it can be left as a monument to what happens when people are inconsiderate and why we can't have nice things.

I was answering the specific question posed, I have never been to the crag and am pretty unlikely to visit.

Hopefully you, or the local access rep can get things sorted out. 

  I think this has probably been coming for a long while and the landowowner has had enough. This also accounts for the low level of reaction here. I’m sure that the BMC will contact the landowner, it’s what they do well. I’m also sure that going onto his land with detergent and scrubbing the crag is absolutely not going to be helpful under the circumstances. 

Edit: just looked at the other thread
’Yes, the crag is on CRoW land and there is a right of access. However, the three main buttresses (and especially Tantric Buttress) all overlook the house just below the crag. Indeed, from Tantric Buttress the view is directly into the front windows of the house. For this reason, I do not think that lamping is a good idea at this venue.’

Quite.

Reading the other thread linked above, someone mentioned that the crag looks directly into a house's front windows, and that people are climbing there with floodlights. Parking being blocked off and a tyre being deflated sounds like people were being pissed off.

This was first raised over a week ago and we discussed it at the BMC Yorkshire area meeting earlier this week. Our access rep is on holiday this week but when he gets back he will make a visit to try and understand what's gone on. As you say we don't want another Whitehouse situation, but this crag is on access land and we have a right to climb there, so the issue is presumably down to parking and/or lamping.

It's on my list to email Rob Dyer to get the RAD updated but as I'm sure you can imagine it's not the only thing I have to do! 

In the meantime, anyone can get stuck into cleaning the grease off, presuming you've parked on the Blubberhouses road and walked in from there. A product called Gunk was recommended in the meeting. 

Why not pacify the existing situation before randomly applying toxic chemicals?

I would advise against that . Whether it's on CROW land or not, if the crag is privately owned and if the owner wants to  grease it up then that's his legal right. 

Going there with the intention of degreasing it might lead to an escalation and once the hammer and bolster chisel have been brought out there's no going back.

Patience and negotiation are the only way forward in situations like this and there's plenty of other  good bouldering spots in the county to visit while emotions and tempers die down.

Edit: it seems that the site is quite important archaeologically with a number of important stone cairns in the area. 

I think thats pretty unfair, on the OP and the crag. Nid boulderer is justifiably angry about a spot that means something to him, and although I dont agree that anger and outrage will fix anything, I dont think belittling his argument or devaluing the crag does anything useful either. Snowden is small, but isnt esoterica. Its got one of the best circuits in the 6-7s in the area on beautiful bullet-hard rock and in a really peaceful spot. It gets a good amount of traffic and would be a really sad loss if the situation couldnt be fixed. I agree we shouldnt take access and negotiations for granted, but we shouldnt be shooting down our own position either. The guy smearing axle grease is the one in the wrong. For those who havent been, the crag is a few hundred feet away from the house and doesnt feel near it. It does overlook the house and garden from a distance. Obviously, lamping should never have taken place there.

Thanks for the info SpiderMonkey. 

Glad to read this has been raised.

worth pointing out it may not be the people in the houses, they may not be the land owner. This land is probably a grouse moor and the land owners gamekeeper could possibly be responsible?

They’re a fickle bunch.

I suspect the same is true for most, which is why there isn't the outrage the OP expects. It's not like its Brimham or Almscliffe. Hardly surprising someone is pissed off if people keep turning up and shining lamps in their windows. 

It was just an idea from the meeting, which I'm passing on. Commenters here want it all at the same time. Immediate action and attention, at the same time as a patient negotiation. Schrodingers access rep, simultaneously up in arms but also doing nothing until emotions die down.

Rest assured the Area is aware of it. There are plenty of people willing to moan on the internet about an access problem, very few prepared to give their own time up to try and fix it. Anyone who wants to help is welcome to get in touch with the Area via Facebook or instagram. Some graffiti also needs cleaning off at Hetchell if anyone is local to there. 

You could try motorcycle chain cleaner - not cheap, but effective. Never tried it on rock , but it works on concrete.

(Obviously try it on a small bit first to check it works OK)

You might be right.  Not one complaint about the spelling of Snowden.

Not going to comment on access but 26 years working in greasing and degreasing leads me to comment that Gunk and Jizer are both kerosene based emulsifiable degreasers and will put a lot of unpleasant stuff into the soil.  There are a lot of citrus based degreasers that will be just as effective and much less impactful.

Contrary to myth most lithium based grease will wash off with water in time.  If you really want to make a mess use bitumen or a calcium thickened grease.

I've spoken to Rob Dyer this afternoon. The Yorkshire Access rep is going to try and find out the details behind this and once we have a few more facts we can think about how best to clean the crag up without exacerbating things. I'll report back when I know more. It won't be for a few weeks as the rep is on holiday. 

What’s your recommendation for the next few weeks? 

This was an honest question as to what the actual BMC position is. I note that the RAD has been updated to read the following (despite still showing a green light on the map) which answers my question:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=4712

Pretty clearly to go somewhere else, it’s not like you have an entire county to play in.

I’m not planning on going, but I thought the message needed to be very clear to stay away, which the above post was not, particularly as the same poster had further up topic said that ‘anyone could get stuck in’ cleaning up. 

I'm York based and was gonna start going back to Hetchell after work now the days are longer, if anyone can point me in the direction of methods for safely cleaning graffitti from Gritstone (Hetchell feels quite soft for Grit too imo) I'll have a stab.

You weren't just passing it on though as you were fully encouraging people to "get stuck into cleaning the grease off". 

And that remains the case after speaking to Rob, people are more than welcome to give it a try, but obviously there's a risk the work would be for nothing before we find out what's gone on.

Thanks j. Kirby, the peak and roaches areas have experience with cleaning graffiti off so I will check with them and post back here. 

Gritstone rep is in Kalymnos at present. He is aware of the problem. It has been reported at the BMC local meeting last Tuesday.

it will be looked into on his return.