UKC

Almscliff

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 1poundSOCKS 16 Nov 2020

The usual approach path is really swampy so might be best to pack your wellies. Plenty of people ill equipped, or unwilling to get muddy, walking on the top of the walls and climbing over walls into adjacent fields. Some climbers and some not.

 IanNicBit 16 Nov 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Definitely the case. Some people were using the approach via South Cave, which was certainly a lot less muddy last week. 

 NorthernGrit 16 Nov 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Can't believe people are still walking on the wall. If they are climbers there is a local byelaw that I've just invented that lets you push them face down into the the mud cow pat slurry. Not much can be done about the sight seers unfortunately.

 Nige M 22 Nov 2020
In reply to NorthernGrit:

Almscliff was very busy again today. Alas, a lot of people chose to avoid the muddy corner of the field by not using the stile and instead climbed directly over the wall. Many others walked across the neighbouring field. Some even chose to walk directly on top of the wall that runs up to the crag - directly past the BMC sign that specifically asks people not to do this.

Sadly, a significant proportion of these people were climbers; they were carrying bouldering pads.

Please only use the public rights of way to access the crag (the one by the farm is less muddy).

If you are at the Cliff and see others climbing over the walls, please have a polite word with them. Thanks to the ten or so climbers who agreed to use the stile instead of climbing over the wall after I chatted to them about this.

The parking was also an issue today: some cars were literally parked in the middle of the road. The lane is used regularly by milk tankers and tractors with trailers. There are bits of broken wing mirror lying in the verge!

 RD 22 Nov 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Having not been to Almscliff for a number of years the obvious question is why don't the local climbers fork out and buy a few bulk bags of gravel and sort out the problem?

In reply to RD:

For the swamp? I guess because the farmer doesn't want that!

Decathlon 12 quid wellies.

 Red Rover 22 Nov 2020
In reply to RD:

It wouldnt work you'd just make a gravelly muddy mess and it would get everywhere (and maybe harm the animals).

 Dave the Rave 22 Nov 2020
In reply to McKEuan:

How about some planks then? They could be rested on some spare stones from the wall.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Don't mention the wall!!!!

I think the answer is just respect the farmers land and wall and get some wellies! 

 Tom V 22 Nov 2020
In reply to Dave the Rave:

If you find a pile of stones somewhere near the wall, they might be spares. If it's on the wall it's not a spare.

 Dave the Rave 22 Nov 2020
In reply to McKEuan:

Yeah sorry. Can’t take the post down now. Was only having a laugh, but can see the possible implications. No planks,  no stones from the wall, just buy some wellies!👍

 petegunn 22 Nov 2020
In reply to RD:

Surely a short section of raised board walk would work, only has to be a single plank wide so not too intrusive and can be placed right up against the side of the wall. Benifits the grass in the field, less erosion and keeps folks feet cleaner. 

 mrphilipoldham 22 Nov 2020
In reply to petegunn:

You have to pass a gate that is used to move live stock between fields, a raised plank would be problematic for animals and tractors/quads alike. This traffic is the very reason it’s a quagmire in the first place. Take a look on Google Earth and it’s obvious.

Post edited at 21:46
In reply to Dave the Rave:

Alternatively a raised causeway along the top of the wall but not fixed to it. Doesn't harm the animals or make his field smaller.  

 Tom V 23 Nov 2020
In reply to JohnBson:

I'd like to see the drawings for this...

 Paul Clarke 24 Nov 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

The BMC Access Rep Mick Johnson is on the case and has spoken to the farmer and BMC. A solution for improving the path and signage has been proposed and funding explored. In the meantime the farmer may put barbed wire along the top of the wall - who could blame him.

Whilst waiting for this perhaps people can buy a pair of wellies or take the 5 minute walk to the S Cave path - please remember there is no parking there though.

 GeoffG 24 Nov 2020
In reply to Paul Clarke:

How can I get I touch with Mick?

I'd like to help but have no way of contacting him.

As you say, use the other approach. I was appalled last week when I saw them all trooping up the wall or climbing over the wall with their pads on their backs.

 IanNicBit 25 Nov 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Chatting to the farmer over the summer whilst he was rebuilding part of the wall higher up. 
 

He is a really nice and reasonable bloke in my experience and puts up with a huge amount, who could make access much more awkward. 
 

I wonder if there is a role for walls to help educate folk as to how fragile access can be and ways to help maintain it. 

 Tom V 25 Nov 2020
In reply to IanNicBit:

The wall will need next to nothing in the way of maintenance if no one walks along the top or climbs over it. The worst that will happen is a bit of settling but that will only be a matter of inches.

Climbers who want to be really helpful could chip in and buy the farmer a couple of tins of anti vandal grease for the appropriate sections of wall.

Post edited at 08:52
 spenser 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Tom V:

I think Ian is talking about climbing walls educating the punters.

It's a concept which has been mooted several times but has only been acted on in a limited way I think.

 johncook 25 Nov 2020
In reply to spenser:

Maybe the BMC access department could get a load of posters printed about respecting the property of others to preserve access. These could be distributed to the various climbing walls around the country and outdoor shops. It may only make a small difference, but every little thing helps. Maybe even a hard sign to be erected near problem access areas spelling out the problem. I am sure that landowners would appreciate the efforts!

I do realise that the BMC has a lot of internal problems, but that should not hinder their work for the climbing/outdoor community in general!

 Tom V 25 Nov 2020
In reply to spenser:

My mistake. I thought he was suggesting that a spell  of voluntary conservation work might get people to appreciate their surroundings a bit better.

Post edited at 09:22
 spenser 25 Nov 2020
In reply to johncook:

A leaflet included with large orders of kit indicative of buying a first rack or a bouldering mat would likely be a sensible approach (if not the most environmentally friendly).

I agree with the rest of your post, Tech committee is still doing stuff albeit online.

 IanNicBit 25 Nov 2020
In reply to Tom V:

Apologies, I realise why it wasn’t clear. I did indeed mean climbing walls. 
 

As for the wall at the Crag itself, sniper rifles or buckshot might be  my preferred deterrent, but I think such things are frowned upon, so I will stick to offering advice to folk to just get off the wall (and stop ignoring the bloody great sign)

 ianstevens 25 Nov 2020
In reply to johncook:

Given that people clearly can't read the sign at the crag itself, what do you think a poster at a wall will do? 

 johncook 25 Nov 2020
In reply to ianstevens:

At the wall the newer climbers may have a friend who can read?

In reply to ianstevens:

> Given that people clearly can't read the sign at the crag itself, what do you think a poster at a wall will do? 

Well it can't do any harm, surely? And it wouldn't cost much. And, whatever the BMC's internal problems, surely nobody doubts that the staff are doing their best to help us?

There's obviously a huge and ever-growing need to educate folk going from inside to outside about all sorts of things. Access is one. Posters at walls, a little BMC video (Steve McClure?), signs at crags. If they help avoid grief to poor farmers and save crags from getting banned - like Craig y Forwen (sp?) - then money, time and effort well spent imho. Good idea from John.

Mick

In reply to...

As you've mentioned it.. we produced a whole set of short web films over the summer. They're aimed at indoor climbers heading out for the first time, and feature influencers such as Louis Parkinson to help spread the word. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTodUXkQjZwyGQZj8e9-qGVTMH3FQ-Adz 18

They're on YouTube, uploaded to Facebook, were featured on UKC and we also did paid geo-targeted social ads which worked pretty well. 

New to the playlist: Malham and Northumberland. 

More coming soon (sounds like Almscliff is a good one!)

Alex

 hambleton 01 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Have been at the crag today, a section of the dry stone wall adjacent to the road/main parking (about 8m south of and away from the access field corner stile) has become damaged/suffered partial collapse.  Could have been nudged by a car or my people climbing over the wall to skirt the muddy access point.  Almscliff under a lot of pressure  at the moment.

 Nige M 01 Dec 2020
In reply to hambleton:

This section of the wall had started to collapse by Thursday 26th November: two stones had been dislodged. The holes that had been left were covered in muddy boot prints. I was upset to discover today (Tuesday 1st Dec) that this section had collapsed further to leave quite a large hole, with only cemented capping stones remaining in place. The field had 40+ sheep in it! The farmer is aware.

Alas, at dusk on Thursday, from a vantage point on top of the crag, I watched 10 climbers - all carrying bouldering mats - walk back across the field at the end of their session. All ten of them climbed over the wall. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

It is true that there are many more non-climbers doing the same, but climbers carrying mats are much more visible: as a community, we must persuade everyone to behave much more responsibly than this.

If you are at the Cliff and see inappropriate behaviour, please have a word. Same goes for any other venue, for that matter.

 IanNicBit 02 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Will be interesting to see if the pressure eases based on the advice relating to not travelling into Tier 2 if you live in Tier 3. 

 Arms Cliff 02 Dec 2020
In reply to IanNicBit:

> Will be interesting to see if the pressure eases based on the advice relating to not travelling into Tier 2 if you live in Tier 3. 

Not seen any roadblocks set up on the 658 as of yet 😄

 Steve_90 12 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Upsetting amounts of litter at Almscliff. People walking on the wall. Hole in the wall by parking. Looks like due irresponsible parking, the farmer has added a heap of mud to prevent people blocking the gate. There are still people flying drones on occasion. I try to educate people but most of the time, they just seek a heated argument.

 Lankyman 12 Dec 2020
In reply to Steve_90:

> Upsetting amounts of litter at Almscliff. People walking on the wall. Hole in the wall by parking. Looks like due irresponsible parking, the farmer has added a heap of mud to prevent people blocking the gate. There are still people flying drones on occasion. I try to educate people but most of the time, they just seek a heated argument.


It must be very frustrating to have one of your local crags abused so much by what are obviously, self-centred and thoughtless twonks. No amount of talking to or 'education' will work with these kinds. I fear the farmer will do what he needs to do and the morons will just move on and be morons somewhere else.

 druridge 12 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

How close would you need to be to a drone to drop it with a 12 bore shotgun? 100ft?

 iainJ 12 Dec 2020
In reply to Steve_90:

Forget the litter, there's at least two fresh human turds in the gullies on high man. They're not even well hidden.

 1poundSOCKS 12 Dec 2020
In reply to druridge:

> How close would you need to be to a drone to drop it with a 12 bore shotgun? 100ft?

Easier to take out the pilot.

 fred99 12 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

> > How close would you need to be to a drone to drop it with a 12 bore shotgun? 100ft?

> Easier to take out the pilot.

And prevents repeat offences.

 mrphilipoldham 12 Dec 2020
In reply to Steve_90:

I once asked a pair if they had the farmers permission for flying their drone and to be fair they said no, packed up and left.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

> Easier to take out the pilot.

Wouldn't that be littering?

 Tom V 12 Dec 2020
In reply to iainJ:

Vanlifers.....!   

In reply to Tom V:

Or climbers. Or walkers. Or anyone really.

 1poundSOCKS 12 Dec 2020
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> I once asked a pair if they had the farmers permission for flying their drone and to be fair they said no, packed up and left.

The biggest cheer I ever heard at Malham wasn't when Steve McClure did Rainman, it was when a drone crashed into the hill and ended up in bits.

 david morse 14 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I remember that drone crashing at malham. One of my best days climbing ever. It literally exploded when it hit the ground

 k_os 17 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Taken from BMC Yorkshire Area Facebook page:

"Some great news from our Gritstone Rep. Mick:

Stone has been sourced for stepping stones at Almscliffe alongside the wall. More details in early January re date or possibly dates for work to commence and the various requirements.It is going to be run as a BMC Event and volunteers are welcome.

Happy Xmas to one and all.

Mick.

Thanks Mick for your hard work on this one!"

 Babika 17 Dec 2020
In reply to k_os:

Wow! Well done BMC! 

 mrphilipoldham 22 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

The farmer was out berating people for walking on his wall today, fair play to him! Thankfully not climbers, that I saw.

What was disappointing however was the overwhelming stench of cannabis coming from a group of 3/4 boulderers at MK Wall. Now I’m not particularly bothered what people indulge in at home, or away from other people (I have enjoyed it myself in the past!) but surely it’s not fair to inflict your drug use on others, at one of the most popular spots in the area for climbers and families alike, especially at a bit of a pinch point where people tend to make their way from Low Man up to High Man. Poor form, whoever you are.

Post edited at 19:08
 k_os 26 Dec 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

More updates from the BMC Yorkshire Area Facebook page;

"Update on Almscliffe stepping stones.The stone has been selected and will be delivered sometime after January 5th. The date we are going for is Friday 29/01 with Sat 30/01,Sun 31/01 and Mon 1/02 all back up dates in case of really diabolical weather.

Plan on Friday 29/01 is to start at 9.00 am and hopefully get the job done asap. The stones are going to be set into the ground on a bed of dry sand and cement.They will be quite heavy and need at least two people per stone so anyone with a bad back needs to be very careful or do a bit of digging.Garden spades,crow bars,a few wheebarrows should suffice tool wise.Obviously be dressed appropriately and wear wellies or sturdy boots.

Hopefully any new Covid 19 rules will not prevent us going ahead but we will have to wait and see.

As it is being organised as a BMC event anyone under 18 will need to turn up with a parent

Face masks should be worn and social distancing observed as far as possible.

Many thanks in anticipation of support.Let us know if you can make it.

Cheers Mick Johnson. BMC Yorkshire Grit Rep."

In reply to k_os:

Why a Friday? I generally find when looking for people to help with something doing it when they don't have to take a day off work gets a much better response. 

In reply to Dax H:

> Why a Friday? I generally find when looking for people to help with something doing it when they don't have to take a day off work gets a much better response. 

1 its Xmas holidays. 

2 have you seen the cliff on a weekday at the moment?.

3 not everyone has a mon-fri 9-5

 k_os 27 Dec 2020
In reply to Dax H:

They're probably going for a Friday because of how busy it gets on a weekend (it gets very busy at the moment). Ping them an email/message on Facebook if you're keen to get involved with something on a weekend though.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/list-of-bmc-access-reps

It's not this Friday just FYI, it's the 29th Jan

Post edited at 11:55
 GeoffG 27 Dec 2020
In reply to k_os:

Excellent. Thanks for organising Mick.

I'll be there to help

 Arms Cliff 27 Dec 2020
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

> 1 its Xmas holidays. 

> 2 have you seen the cliff on a weekday at the moment?.

> 3 not everyone has a mon-fri 9-5

You’ve got a long Christmas hold having all of January off!

In reply to Arms Cliff:

> You’ve got a long Christmas hold having all of January off!

Ive had all year off! 🤣

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

> 1 its Xmas holidays. 

Christmas holiday carries on until 29/01/21 does it? 

> 3 not everyone has a mon-fri 9-5

No they don't but a lot of people do. 

In reply to Dax H:

> Christmas holiday carries on until 29/01/21 does it? 

> No they don't but a lot of people do. 

Just as you stated ‘a lot’ of people dont work 9-5, ‘a lot’ of people wont go back till New Year!

 ianstevens 27 Dec 2020
In reply to Dax H:

They also probably don't want a lot of people, either helping or passing by, to aid in keeping things covid "safe". As said above, the cliff has been mental recently.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

> Just as you stated ‘a lot’ of people dont work 9-5, ‘a lot’ of people wont go back till New Year!

I think most people who are going back will be back by the 29th.

In reply to ianstevens:

> They also probably don't want a lot of people, either helping or passing by, to aid in keeping things covid "safe". As said above, the cliff has been mental recently.

Your probably right, I didn't think of the weekend crowd's. I would have gone and done my bit but not on a Friday. 

In reply to Dax H:

> I think most people who are going back will be back by the 29th.

If you say so 👍🏻

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

> If you say so 👍🏻

You do realise we are talking about the 29th of January and not the 29th of December? 

Typically working folks who have time off at Christmas go back to work either the day after boxing day or the first week day after New Year's day (Scotland has an extra day) 

The construction industry goes back typically a week later. 

There are exceptions to this but in the most part this is what happens. 

The first day back is one of our busiest of the year, 95% of our customers have been closed for a week and their equipment doesn't always start on demand. 

This year will be different with people on Furlough and businesses shut though. 


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