UKC

Thought we could have a discussion on the latest Alien film.

Fair play they made it feel very original, while making it relevantly for a more modern audience. The set, filming style and characters were very good as well as using many of the original sound effects.

There were things I didn't like which were: using the Ash model of synthetic, ok a link to the past but unnecessary and somewhat confusing

The Alien growing larger in a pod - I don't remember seeing this in the previous ones.

How quickly they facehugger implanted then the chest burster formed. The original seemed to take a few hours to do this.

How Rook managed to 'recreate' the Facehuggers from the original alien recovered, how??

Then the biggest nonsense for me - the speed at which the xeno baby went from newborn to 10ft tall. There's no way anything can grow that quickly, especially without consuming anything at all.

I thought the acting for Andy was excellent and the duality of human/synthetic really worked. The inclusion of the cousin as the shitty human was good to balance then otherwise neutral group.

The portrayal of mining operations and the hellish planet is bleak but entirely plausible near future life, and works better than any written description could portray.

Oh and also there was no need for the line Get away from her you bitch, rather cringe worthy.

Is this not a reference to the original? I have a vague memory of Ripley saying something similar.

From the second film Aliens yes

It's from the end of Aliens and like many things in Alien: Romulus, it was inserted in a very crass and out-of-context manner as if they had a quota of "fan-service" things to rush through. Ham handed nods to at least the first four films, throughout. And bizarre product placement for Reebok! 

Oh and I forgot, the random yellow wet floor sign

Went last night, 5/10 if I’m being generous.

Highlight was Andy.

I think it's hard to beat or even come close to the original as we didn't know what was going to happen. Now we know the script it's hard to do something that surprises you

I didn't mind it, maybe 6/10, rather predictable in places though. 

At least it didn't give me nightmares. The original had me dreaming that I was about to be punched through the head by the big alien. 

I've not heard of this - the Prometheus re-boot was dire I thought. Romulus - is there some kind of Star Trek connection?

The whole concept of ‘remaking’ a total classic is entirely misguided, IMHO. And completely pointless, apart from making some cheap bucks fast.

Yes. I think the three(?) original Alien films with Sigourney Weaver in were good but Prometheus, decades later was awful.

Not always. For instance, the remake of True Grit was a better film ,in my opinion,  not least because it was more faithful to Charles Portis' original novel.

I'm sure film buffs will be able to provide other  favourite examples.

Well, OK, not all. But generally I don’t think it’s a good idea. I favour originality.

Agreed, exactly, but the first was by far the best.

If you're after an adrenaline fuelled rollercoaster of a film I'd agree, however Prometheus was also directed by Scott (unlike Aliens and and Alien 3) and shouldn't be discounted off-hand. From a purely subjective and some may say weird personal angle, I like the way he uses the colour yellow and would go as far as to argue that this was THE primary feature of the movie.

I agree with yourself and Gordon that the first... Alien; was (and always will be) the best. Irreplicable. But you can cherry pick innovative and enjoyable features from the others, from the gallows humour of Resurrection to the first-person combat heavy action sequences of Aliens.

But I'm yet to see Romulus; I'm expecting a slasher style experience, not a genre that I particularly enjoy.

Yes. It was like a Gothic horror movie that just happened to be set in space. The shock of the final scene for John Hurt was truly unexpected and visceral (for the cast too I believe!).

Star Trek doesn’t have sole rights to ancient mythology…

That is true. I was fortunate to work with Scott (as an assistant editor on Legend) and he told me that he had kept it a secret from everyone. Only those who'd worked on the chestbuster itself, preparing it, had seen it.

But it's a planet occupied by a species distantly related to Vulcans. Nothing to do with ancient mythology. Oh, hang on ...

I think it might be an age thing? It's many years since I came out of the cinema thinking I'd been moved (or even entertained). Like 2001, Superman, Alien, Jaws, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan and lots of others back then. Even bollox like Braveheart was great fun if historical tosh.  Like Gordon said, originality is a lot of what makes a great film but I suspect it's one of the harder things to achieve (hence the plenitude of sequels and re-boots).

Very disappointing 

I found Romulus quite disappointing as there was very little new on offer.  Even the xenomorph zero gravity carnage borrowed heavily from "Aliens" Special Edition, with Andy mirroring the remote sentry gun ammo countdown in the latter. "Alien" is an all time top twenty and special as it was the first 18 rated film I saw at the cinema

Lankyman, there is plenty on offer in modern cinema.  If you want something original (the perspective is very new) which will move and horrify you, try "The Zone Of Interest". Just beware if you stream on Amazon Prime you still get the intrusive advertising. Appalling given the subject matter and tone of the film.

JUST ASKING AND NOT ATTACKING

Have you seen Kinds of Kindness, The Lobster, or Beast (2023-4)? Did you see Bodies Bodies Bodies 2 years ago? Did you see The Greasy Strangler in 2016? Did you see "mother!" in 2017-8? Did you see The Secret of Marrowbone, or Smile? Did you see The Banshees of Inisherin last year?

All relatively major releases that weren't sequels, reboots, remakes or adaptations, even if all weren't entirely original in premise and story. And of course the first Now You See Me film. And The Hateful Eight, Once Upon A Time in Hollywood......oh hang on Tarantino has only done one film that wasn't an original screenplay, fancy that....

Let's not forget that Superman, Jaws and Schindler's List were based upon existing material (and arguably Alien was too, although that is debatable of course)

No, didn't see any of those films that you mention. I saw trailers for Banshees of ... and immediately decided that it was of no interest to me. I'm fairly much a mass market sort of consumer where films are concerned. I've watched a few Tarantino films (on the box) and am not too fussed. If there are dinosaurs or space ships then I'm fairly content. Have you seen Valley of the Gwangi ... ?

I have indeed seen The Valley of Gwangi. Cowboys, dinosaurs and a circus 

My parents took me to see this as a kid and it fascinated me. I still think some of Ray Harryhausen's creations are amongst the most frightening cinematic monsters ever (Talos the bronze giant in particular). I love the sequence in Argonauts where they land on the island and Jason issues his warning and from then on you just know it won't end well.

Haha, The Greasy Strangler might not be everyone's cup of tea but it is excellent!

The 1960 “Mysterious Island” is often overlooked re: Harryhausen. It’s great 

I so wanted Prometheus to work, it had beautiful set designs, high production values and an interesting 'origins' story but as is often is the case the script was weak and disjointed that even the pretty strong cast could not save it. Also, like the Covenant film that followed it I struggle to have sympathy with characters who act stupidly in any given situation. Prime examples being the casual taking off of helmets on alien worlds and not bothering with quarantine procedures etc. 

My biggest issue with Prometheus was that although it’s set up as an instalment in “Alien” franchise, it’s really had nothing much connecting it to the franchise at all.

Felt a bit like a stand-alone sci fi script someone wrote and the the studio realised if they called it an Alien prequel and shoehorned in a couple of references in the script here and there it would way more marketable.

Romulus sounds like they’ve gone too far the other way, to many homages, references and Easter eggs all jumbled together into a slightly weak movie. 

Why do Alien films get progressively worse like this? Or is Romulus just a shade better than the frankly awful Prometheus…

I actually quite like Alien 3. It was received negative reviews at the time but it had a very different dark somber mood to it. Apparently Michael Biehn was so annoyed that his character was killed off that he demanded the same fee that he received for the whole of Aliens just for the studio to use his image for a few seconds in the next film.

As I understand it, this isn’t a remake but another instalment in the series, set in time between the events of Alien and Aliens.

Remakes batter than the original?

Gaslight (1944) 

Scarface (1983)

The Departed

Casino Royale

I could go on, but those are just a few.  I disagree with Gordon, remakes aren’t necessarily a bad though the ones that are better than the original are fewer in number than worse!

Revisiting dormant franchises, again sometimes good (Blade Runner 2049) but very often not (the new Bill and Ted, Bad Boys, Indiana Jones etc!). Feels like this is one that falls into the lather camp.

I’ll still watch it.

Oh come on. They killed off Newt!

Mid ranking offering for me, by now everyone knows what to expect so to sustain any kind of tension is an achievement. I’d agree on the steady decline in the franchise, and normally not a franchise person, but for me this one represented an upward blip on the curve. Andy was the star of the show and managed to out act his teammates twice over in effectively 2 different parts. Happy with the Ash reboot, presumably all cleared with the family, iconically he was one of the stronger characters. Half a character.

Mostly

Johnn Carpenter's 'The Thing' was a pretty epic remake. 

Yeah I’ve heard that (I mean it comes as no surprise as Carpenter is a master of his art!) but I’ve not seen it nor the original so felt I’d be a bit of a fraud putting it in there.

I also deleted Heat as I’m not sure if it’s strictly a remake. 

Oh that’s very good

<movie nerding> Ah, if you're thinking of LA Takedown as the first version, then I think the position is that Michael Mann got the opportunity to make a TV movie (shorter, lower budget) and cut down his working script to fit.  I think I read him somewhere describing it as an 'off Broadway run' to try it out before moving up a gear.  So I'd say not a remake, but a case of the proof of concept worked and now we've got the funding to do it properly.  </movie nerding>

Yeah I was just reading about it earlier today after a I questioned whether Heat is a proper remake.

It is in many ways as it more or less the same characters, plot, themes etc but, Mann was offered the opportunity to make a pilot for a tv show so took this movie script, edited it down and made the tv pilot in 19 days on a fairly tight budget.

It never got picked up as a show, so just got released as a straight to tv movie which I think is why o don’t consider it a remake - the first version was never produced as a movie.

You ever seen it? I haven’t!

***also a movie geek here!***

I once had a secondhand VHS of it, out of curiosity.  Don't remember much, except it isn't Heat.  This interview with Mann ( youtube.com/watch?v=fvkFi72cAbY&)  is sort of interesting, and has some clips from LA Takedown which look very 80s made for TV.  Maybe you could argue it's grittier etc because it's low budget, or maybe it was just low budget.  

Casino Royale can't be considered a remake surely?

Not a remake but an alternative film adaption.  

One that is completely incomparable with the first adaption, which is a work of utterly demented genius on acid.

One of several movies and music videos to make good use of the industrial slag beaches of County Durham.

I rather like it too - when it was released, I thought it was decent in its own right, just unfairly castigated on account of how great its predecessors were.  I saw the Assembly Cut recently and it's even better - not strictly a Director's Cut, but supposedly more faithful to Fincher's vision (the theatrical version had lots of cuts and reshoots against his wishes).

As for remakes better than the original, how about Reservoir Dogs - which is essentially a remake of Ringo Lam's City on Fire.  Also, some people would probably think Scorsese's The Departed fits the bill, although I think I enjoyed Infernal Affairs more.

Memorably used in Get Carter. 

As is John Carpenter's The Thing  

The Thomas Crown Affair (1999)

'Living' (2022) deserves a mention I think.

"Better than the original" sets an impossibly high bar in this case but it's on a par with the original, which is a staggering achievement.

How on earth can you call the recent Casino Royale a re-make?  Completely different genre of film. Hated the old one as a kid as I didn't realize that but it's now a film I can enjoy and has greatly entertained younger folk in the family as well who understood it first time having seen poorer films like the Austin Powers stuff.

Yeah fair enough.

Same source material and title, but not really the same movie so probably not really fair to call it a remake. 

Let’s strike that one from the list!

Arguably. But it’s pretty close and probably comes down to personal taste. They’re both good movies and the ‘68 gets a boost from featuring Windmills of Your Mind.

The Crazies (2010)

Thanks, I've seen neither version. Long been DIMLY aware of Ikiru but failed to see it. I skipped "Living" due to an irrational aversion to Bill Nighy based on him rehashing his Still Crazy character in about 70% of his work. Irrational because this leaves 30% of proper good stuff that is not beneath Bill or myself, and Living clearly looked good. There was a bit of upheaval with my work at the time of its release too, which is another excuse for having skipped it! 

Aline (1979) 

unofficial (total steal actually) copy of "It! The Terror From Beyond Space"

Nosferatu (1979)

Ooooh - good one!

Just read the plot of City on Fire, can absolutely see Tarantino has borrowed some plot points from there. Enough to be able to call it a remake I’m not sure…

George Lucas did the same with The Hidden Fortress, but that’s certainly not a remake!

“Airplane!” as an often verbatim remake of Zero Hour.  Blew my mind when I found out.

youtube.com/watch?v=8-v2BHNBVCs&

I've just skimmed down most of these replies and I can only conclude I am very easily pleased in matters of taste! I absolutely loved Alien Romulus and happily gave it 10/10. Though it was the first time I've been to the cinemas in years. I loved all the old Alien movies and the Prometheus reboot. 

It doesn't bother me at all that is like the old ones and takes a lot of the same concepts and themes an re-uses them. I thought it was still fresh in other ways. If we're doing *** SPOILER ALERTS **** in this thread (which is clear from the OP) then the part with the ice rings I thought were just such a cool set piece and idea, regardless of how realistic they were.

And the production generally / effects / set design / sound I thought were amazing.

I am easily pleased.

I was quite surprised by "Went the Day well" (1942) when I saw it, years after seeing "The Eagle has landed".  The latter not quite as original as I'd thought and perhaps derivative of Greene's idea but quite entertaining though perhaps less authentic with usual 1970s howlers than the wartime version.