UKC

Not sure where to put this, but...

Nursery school bosses ordered the words of the rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep to be altered to Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep.

The change was made to avoid offending children after teachers examined the nursery's equal opportunities policy.

Taken from http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1752155.html?menu=news.quirkies


FFS its political correctness gone mad!

In reply to Dan_S:

I was talking to a Kiwi who had immagrated to scotland a couple of years ago. His 4 year old daughter was, at the time, being taught Baa Baa White Sheep.

Andy

In reply to Dan_S:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=148401

"FFS its political correctness gone mad!"

i love that phrase. it is such a cliche. lol.

In reply to satori: Heh heh.

In reply to Dan_S:

I hear that someone's remaking Dambusters.

What's your suggestion for the dog's name?

In reply to Dan_S:

Nursery rhymes should be used to teach about history.

http://www.innvista.com/society/government/britain/rhymes.htm

"A frog he would a-wooing go, ...
This refers to one of the French suitors of Queen Elizabeth I, the Duke of Anjou, who was unsuccessful in his suit."

In reply to brothersoulshine:

Dave.

In reply to satori:

Me too. Every time I hear it I get a little picture in my head of Michael Howard saying it in that smarmy, know it all, way.

In reply to Dan_S:

We will be rewriting history next with the "Dark" Coloured Death in the Middle Ages. PC has gone totally mad!

In reply to Dan_S:

Actions such as this drive people over to racism. It's a traditional nursery rhyme and as such should not be changed, it's part of OUR culture. If people feel offended by our culture then it's tough - there are many parts of other ethnic cultures that I find offensive but I don't moan or tell them that they can't do or say something.

The BNP and such like must be rubbing their hands together, more new recruits for their cause are bound to follow on from this.

Rich

In reply to Lawman:


Does the same apply to Darkie Day?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4337475.stm

In reply to Dan_S:

What is most worrying is that people this stupid are in charge of any part of the education process in the first place.

In reply to Richard:

Slighty different wouldn't you say? The Baa Baa thing was because the black wool off a sheep was almost worthless because it couldn't be coloured and therefore the farmers didn't like having black sheep. It's not about black people as the Darkie Day is. To be fair,I'm suprised the people still think that it's acceptable to hold that Darkie Day!

In reply to Richard Horn:

So true. They should have to write a hundred times on a blackboard, 'I must not have such racist thoughts as this'.

In reply to Richard:

It's like people telling us we cant call a black board by it's name - it has to be a chalk board. But the damn thing is black????????

Anything that is by design, racist or has racist conotations, should be banned. But not traditional rhymes and the word that describes a colour. That can only cause more animosity and resentment - if it didn't then why is it news?

Rich

In reply to Lawman:


That wasn't the argument, though. The argument was, "It's part of our culture and they should leave it alone." Hence the Darkie Day reference.

Banning the use of the word "black" is silly. But defending something potentially offensive on "cultural" grounds is also silly.

In reply to Dan_S:
my kids sing bah bah wooly sheep at their nursery. doesn't make much difference andif it avoids upsetting some people then why not

In reply to Dan_S: Don't worry - you can't order a black coffee in many places now either. It's a coffee with no milk (which I find racist personally as it draws attention to the use of the word in the first place).

In reply to FrankBooth:

Apparently you can't have a brainstorming session any more - offensive to epileptic folk. Sorry, people with epilepsy.

Thought showers is the excellent alternatively, I understand.

In reply to Craig Geddes:

I find the "of colour" construction (e.g. "women of colour") pretty offensive, mainly because it's so meaningless. Don't know about you, but I'm a slightly brown off-pink colour. Everyone's skin is coloured. What do you mean, "women of colour"?

In reply to FrankBooth:

That's not the point.. it does make a difference.

The change in words has caused more debate and heaped more attention on the race issue than the original rhyme ever did. You accepting that it is ok to go along with the change for to prevent upsetting some people is a weak stance. Who could possibly be upset at the words of this song, I mean seriously.?

In reply to Dan_S: perhaps they should have gizzoogled the words instead?

Baa baa black sheep, have you any wool?
Yes siznir, yes sizzir, three bags full!
One fo` tha motherf*cka one fo` tha dame,
And one fo` tha shawty boi who lives down tha lane.

In reply to Rimz:


Where do you stand on words like "blackleg" or "blackball" where the "black" part has a definite negative connotation?

(Personally I don't care - I think there are more direct racisms in language that should be dealt with first.)

In reply to Dan_S: Seems odd to me that people are forever getting het up about pointless silly things, quibbles about there being too much PC in the world etc, and thus ignoring the obvious. The real scandal is the ugly widespread racism still prevalent in this great country of ours, race riots, race murders, instiutionalised discrimination, the casual racist quips of Joe Public (I'm going down the Paki shop to buy some cigs / I fancy a Chinky takeaway tonight). If a few well-meaning but ultimately batty people want to change the words of a few songs, then so what? They're wrong, they shouldn't do it and it'll make no difference whatsoever to anyone's deep-seated attitudes. But, as i say, there are far worse things to get hot under the collar about. Ranting about 'PC gone mad' just misses the point, and it's sooo Daily Mail. Please don't!

In reply to Richard:

Good point, I mean in those examples you quote I must admit to being ignorant to the source of the names, so can't comment. If derived from a racist, negative veiwpoint, then that's not on.

My point is that, unlike other uses, in the case of the nursery rhyme there is no ambiguity - there is a factual, natural and historical reason why the term "black sheep" is used, and it has nothing to do with racism.

In reply to dan bailey:

Bloke comes into the pub and asks if anyone wants anything from the chinky that night. Usually gets an order to take in, he owns it and is Hong Kong Chinese.

I also use Paki in conversation to friends same as I may call you Dan when your name may be Daniel. Shortened name with no malice intended. Anyone who thinks like that needs a brain trepanning.

In reply to Rimz:


They're not derived from a racist viewpoint. The word "black" in English, is anciently associated with darkness, evil, and bad things. The fact that it's also a descriptive word which can be applied to people's skins is an unfortunate accident - but one which some people can still find offensive, alas. It's not always a good thing that words have power.

In reply to Dan_S:


Stop discriminating against mad people. I find it deeply offensive.

I remember reading recently of some chap in the Met who is to do with race relations or something of that ilk; he's black, and was miffed at the description of the Force's "Black Museum" of macabre items.

All I could think of at the time, was "you don't bloody work hard enough mate, if that's all you can come up with"- on the basis that he obviously hadn't thought through the origins of the phrase and had plenty of time to get all hissy and offended at it.

It's beyond belief, sometimes.

Incidentally, I have been a bit peturbed a the level of racisim towards white people that black people seem to have- even to the point of being pretty offensive in their terminology for whites, and this is even put on the telly.

Seems a bit odd that people who are so damned sensitive about the issue should then go ahead and perpetrate it for themselves.

Sxx

In reply to dan bailey:

If you assume the average age of small children learning a nursery rhyme is between 4 and 6, why does the nanny state feel that we are "offending" them by using the word black as a unique identifier?

I very much doubt many of them understand the concept of racism, whether they've encountered it or not. It surely starts off a word association of black=bad?

I don't read the daily mail (in fact the last “paper” I read was the beano about 10 years ago), but get really irritated when the health and safety or PC wasters get up on their high horse about something so meaningless like this.

In reply to AndyBryce:

Its ok, I'm mad, so I'm allowed to discriminate against myself

In reply to Dan_S:

Actually, I just asked my lad whether he sings Baa baa black sheep in nursery. He says he does. And he sang it for me. With the word "black" in it and everything.

Are we sure these are not just isolated instances rather than a policy level thing? Or does that thought spoil our righteous indignation?

In reply to Dan_S:

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=Mel2Mob.sgm&images=imag...

How dare he!

In reply to Dan_S:

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html

In reply to Dan_S: If it has to change I'd say 'baa baa wooly sheep' was better than 'baa baa rainbow' sheep.I dont see what all the fuss is about though. have there been any cases of black children being offended by this nursery rhyme?Apparently 'wendyhouse' cant be used either, its a 'playhouse'.
jeez.

In reply to Dan_S:

does anybody know the equation for rainbow body radiation?

In reply to Craig Geddes:


Please tell me you're kidding.

In reply to Craig Geddes:

That's because you can't order a "coffee" in many places now - it's an Americano or a Moccachino or some such.

(Heard on the radio the other day: some business journalist relating that he'd been talking to an Italian coffee shop owner, and had asked him, "What would you say to someone who came in and asked for a tall skinny moccachino?"

"I'd say, get out of my shop.")

In reply to Richard: all this "racism" stuff is bollocks why dont people stop being so damn soft?

In reply to spoonear:


No, it's not bollocks. Unless you are a non-white person you will NEVER understand.

I agree, however that banning the word "black" in nursery rhymes or for describing blackboards is very silly, but as with so many things, the pendulum will swing too far in the attempt to find an acceptable medium before it reaches that point.

There will come a time when people are genuinely convinced that racism is no longer endemic in society, and when that time comes, attempts at political correctness such as this will just be laughed at, as they should be.

In reply to MaxB:


Unless you live in Harlem...

In reply to Richard:

This is true. But even then it could be claimed that officialdom is on your side. But as I have never lived in Harlem, and doubt that you have, it is moot. It may be a lovely, inclusive place to live, just like Moss Side or Peckham.....

In reply to MaxB:


I know; I was being silly. However I suspect the phrase "unless you are non-white you will never understand" is overemphatic; a white gay man may understand only too well. Prejudice is not limited to race, nor one skin colour only.

In reply to Dan_S:

Which bosses? Where are they? Banning what exactly?

I think you'll find little actual evidence behind these kind of headlines and they're mostly reactionary fabrications designed to enrage the Daily Mail reading masses.

"Political Correctness" is a catch-all label that the Right use to stiffle debate and beat down sensible thinking.

In reply to hutchm:

Who says you can't? Feckin Muppet!

"Thought showers" might well be the kind of neologism now being used by Management Consultants to make tired old ideas appear all new and funky to gullible corporate clients but there's no Government office sending out memos demanding we don't used "brainstorm" and threatening court action.

In reply to Craig Geddes:

Pure poppycock!!!

In reply to Dux: I'd been told this in a disability driscrimination workshop so I went to the bother of checking up:-
from The National Society for Epilepsy:

"There has been criticism that the word 'brainstorming' is offensive to people with epilepsy. NSE recently conducted a small survey among people with the condition and the overwhelming response was that the term is not offensive when used in its correct context, defining a session amassing spontaneous ideas as potential solutions to a problem."

http://www.epilepsynse.org.uk/pages/whatsnew/pr/ep_term.cfm

In reply to Lawman:

"whitewash". Negative connotations. Who's offended??

In reply to Dan_S:

it's ridiculous really. were any black people actually consulted to see if they objected to the words in a children’s song?

In reply to staralfur: probably not, but i know that id actually be offended to be thought of as that senstive

In reply to Dan_S:
Gingerism! People with ginger hair get it from all angles. It maybe only a matter of time before the first gingerist case goes to court.

In reply to mutley113:

Tell me about it. I got so fed up with it I decided to start going bald.

In reply to mutley113:


For several millenia no doubt

http://www.dhamurian.org.au/anthropology/neanderthal1.html

In reply to Dux:
Nursey school bosses (Parents and Children Together (Pact))

"Abingdon Family Centre" and the "Sure Start Centre" in Sutton Courtenay if you are really interested.

The use of the word "Black" in the nursery rhyme "Baa baa black sheep" in case it offends school children

In reply to staralfur:
In 2000 Birmingham city council had the same great idea. Thankfully they backed down when the black community said it was a stupid idea.

In reply to Dan_S:
Policeman: Ere! 'Ewe're nicked!
Sheep: is it 'coz i'ze black?