UKC

Covid complications aside, does anyone have up to date experiences or ideas on extending the 90 in any 180 day stay allowance, not for work but to just stay/holiday there.

I suppose more specifically I'm after some knowledge on:

-general feasibility

-requirements (circumstances, documents, etc.)

-types/options of visa available

-rough cost

of obtaining something in either France or Spain (or in UK before you get there?) to try and get some idea of best strategy. 

I own a house in France but I have a (hopeful) suspicion it might be easier, cheaper and less faff to get something sorted in Spain as France is reliably a costly and time consuming nightmare when it comes to anything official/bureaucratic. House is very close to border so nipping over a couple of times into Spain wouldn't be a problem.

Apologies for lazy nature of post and sorry also if in wrong forum.

Thanks,

Steve

Full details on the EU website. You must remain in the country you applied from until it is granted.

Yeah I guess the info might be on there but it's not easy to find, for me at least. (admittedly absolutely terrible at this sort of thing)  Can't find any info on how long an application is likely to take, how much it's likely to cost and things are always worded in ambiguous way eg. 'it may be necessary' etc.  First hand reports of someone who's managed it in France or Spain would be ideal I guess but due to Covid perhaps not that many people have tried yet.  Ultimately I imagine I'll just go and find out for myself and if it's not possible or too expensive, just stay less than the 90 days... 

Look into 6-12 month country specific visitor visas.In Spain at least the conditions for having one granted are proof of annual private medical insurance.. permanent address and proof of income as stipulated by the local province you are based in.Incidentally these are the same basic conditions for applying for a TIE card the 5-year residency document that would give a certain amount of EU residency status (I don't think a long term visitor visa does).

This might help you for France Rammers! Unless you're staying more than half a year and can get your Carte de Sejour?

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F302

G

Sorry I can't recall where, but a site I visited recently was asking the same - the general thrust was the the question had been asked loads of times and no one had come up with any real way around the rules apart from residency or visas,

Chris

Thanks a lot G, that's pretty much what I've been failing to find.  Can picture the staff in that communist looking building in Foix now, 'oh no, not him again' if/when I attempt one of the options.

For anyone searching this and, like me, too lazy and/or incompetent to find out directly, the stipulations and costs for France based application from page linked above go something like:

-Complete copy of birth certificate

-Passport (pages relating to civil status, validity dates, entry stamps and visas) 

-Proof of address dated less than 6 months

-3 photos or, if the request is made online, photo code and valid digital signature

-Medical certificate issued by the Ofii (this is probably not cheap?)

-Proof of your resources reaching an annual amount equal to € 14,767 (bank certificates, deposits from solvent persons, pension voucher for retirees, etc.) 

-Certificate on honor (handwritten) not to work in France

-Certificate of health insurance covering the duration of your stay 

Cost is 225 € for the application.  Lasts one year and sounds like you can renew for 180 €

Would also need to arrange additional insurance for vehicle I guess.

So not too bad or costly on the face of it.  Still not too late for residency application which is similar set of requirements I think and therefore possibly better option.

All in all doesn't look good for anyone wanting to go for extended holidays or van trips though.  But everyone apart from me probably already knows all this (I'm just catching up with the reality having had head firmly buried in the sand the whole time!)

What you're saying is broadly in line with the Remain in France forums on Facebook are saying. You'll have to apply for a visa, and it will be a pain in the @rse.

It's not too late to apply for residency, it's just that you can't do so under the less onerous route via the Brexshit Withdrawal Agreement (for which you'd have to provide proof of residence prior to 31st December 2020). You'd be applying as a Third Country National and have to evidence that you can afford to live in the EU country of your choice, including healthcare, income, accommodation etc.

My Mum and partner moved to France last year. He's self employed doing something in IT, though won't be working in France, he re-registered his company name in France and they applied for residency off the back of that, which apparently is a fair bit easier. I may have got that slightly wrong but that's a the gist of it. Dunno how helpful that is to you but I can find out more if you like

Some good info in these webinars about longer stay non work Visas. https://www.aplaceinthesun.com/webinars/post-brexit-webinars

on the website if you hunt around they have country specific information.

For Spain as I understand it you each need either and income of 25K or in the bank, each, and then its some paperwork, which apparently a lot of which people should have been doing if stopping longer than 3 months anyway, but no one did.
Other countries have their own rules.
Have a look on Motorhome fun forums, they know their stuff and I would expect as Covid calms down some good information will appear there https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/
The consensus from the legal people seems to be its a bit harder post Brexit, but not impossible.

Good luck.

Check out this website - they also have a Facebook group - https://sites.google.com/view/180-days-in-france/home

I think things may not be as bad as first thought: seems that the 4-6 month visa - the VLS - T - might be the answer for second home owners in France in order to beat the Schengen 90 day restriction. The beauty of this visa is that the French government have indicated recently- after lobbying from 180 day group- that they will accept the EHIC or GHIC as proof of medical insurance cover ( they won’t if applying for the 12 month visa).

I believe the cost is 99e and involves a trip to a French consulate.

This group is hoping that people applying for the shorter term visa will post their experiences on Facebook.

Thanks a lot to everyone for info and replies.  As pointed out a couple of times above, I've now seen the same sort of question getting asked all over the internet all the time.  I really hope a more straight forward and relatively inexpensive solution can be agreed upon before too long as there's nothing at the moment.  In the meantime, personally going to do the online residency application and see what happens with that.
Having given this a little bit of thought, anyone care to point out the folly/flaws in the following slightly less, er, official solution I came up with the other day?
Let's say you want 5 months in France (or Spain). ie. ~ 2months more than currently allowed....

After say 2 months of being in France, park close to the border on the road up to Andorra.  Hitch/walk/get a lift from mate into Andorra making sure to get passport stamped on way in.   Hike out of Andorra sufficiently far from border control and make way back to car.  You're now back in France but passport stamps say you're out of Schengen area (in Andorra).  After a further 2 months back in France, do the reverse border procedure - hike into Andorra, exit officially with passport stamp going out.  You now have ~1 month left on your passport to remain in EU/schengen area.
What could possibly go wrong?!   

My understanding the current rule is we can only stay in the EU for 90 days in any 6 month (rolling) period, so a quick trip back to the UK or other non EU country wont really help you.

yeah, you're right but my suggested (probably stupid) work around isn't that.  Check again if you can be bothered

I have read that the French have updated their border entry systems to keep a rolling count of how many days non-EU citizens spend in France during each 180 day period.

I like your plan... Probably work fine until you get unlucky and hit a border guard/police patrol or something goes wrong while officially outside the country eg. getting I'll or injured... Might need to work out the consequence of getting caught. I imagine trying the same thing in the US would get you a lifetime ban, which from the Schengen region might not be worth the risk!!

True. I exited France a couple of hours ago and my passport was scanned and stamped. They now keep a tally for British visitors. 

Just to play devil's advocate you're basically suggesting illegal immigration. If you weren't white (I'm guessing based on odds, apologies if I'm wrong), wealthy (by global standards) and a tourist I can imagine many people taking an even dimmer view.

Along with the rules that Brits are now subject to as third-country nationals (eg. having to register visitors with the town hall in France) there's a common feeling of British exceptionalism to these rules and that somehow it shouldn't apply to us. But we've deliberately relegated ourselves to a lower tier in world standing - it sucks but hey, blue passports.

I think the most likely flaw in your devious plan may be the difficulty of finding someone at the Andorra border to stamp your passport to show that you've left France!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/06/priti-patel-seeks-ban-on-so...

Seriously another consquence is that if you've been processed as an illegal immigrant which is what you're suggesting expect some tricky questions going to other countries afterwards, and not just EU countries.  At the end of the day you voted for, and elected a government that created this policy

I'd also comment that if I owned a house in country x, I wouldn't want to p off the government of said country so they wouldn't allow me in.

Agreed - plus if you did manage to get an Andorra stamp, it would alert any copper/border guard that you were up probably to something

Chris

Some funny replies, thanks.  Don't think the Andorra thing will work as even if you persuaded someone to stamp your passport, doesn't seem likely it will stop the clock ticking as far as the french/eu system is concerned.  Same plan but using Croatia or Bulgaria would probably work but they're quite a long drive.  Now looking into potential solutions involving pedalo purchase in Dover instead.

My wife has a meeting tomorrow in Edinburgh at the French Consulate to apply for the 4/6 month visa for France. She has spent the best part of three days getting the necessary documentation together and copied.

Will be interesting to find out how she gets on; will report back on how it goes if anyone interested.

Could you claim asylum? As a great fan of legal loopholes how long would it take to process the claim? A year?

Just noticed you have a house there. Could you not apply for residency in France?
I know a couple and they have a house in France and one of them has claimed residency in France, and she seems to be able to come to UK as and when she wants. I have no idea if she is still registered with a UK doctor or Tax or anything, but it seems to be a Cake and Eat it situation. I think this option could be open to you till the end of the month, if at all.

This was hard before the withdrawal agreement - since the OP didn't live there prior to Jan 1 this year then this will be even harder. Not to mention that if you're resident there, you owe the French tax authorities tax on 100% of your worldwide income (although you're not double taxed on UK generated income).

Don’t think the residency route is the right one for most second home owners who want to retain their main connection with the U.K. but want to have more flexibility than the current Schengen restrictions demand.

Reporting back, it appeared that my wife had a very quick, hassle free appointment with her interview applying for the 4-6 month French visa. As far as I’m aware, she will have freedom to visit France for up to 6 months with this visa. She will have to leave France when it expires but can return after an absence of one day; the visa should not eat into her Schengen entitlement - we’ll see in due course how that pans out.

Sounds pretty good apart from the 3 days prep bit!  How much was it? 

I believe it’s 99euros.

Think the 3 day prep time is more a measure of my wife’s thoroughness- she said the woman who conducted the interview was not interested in the cover letter that my wife had spent a lot of time preparing - interviewer was only really interested in her having the appropriate documentation. 

I plan to apply later in the year. 

With one or two minor charges added  ( eg courier service to get passport back from London), my wife says that the total charge for the visa comes out at “ just over £100” ( she’s not precise when it comes  to spending money!).

Hope this helps.