This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Just playing around and looking at routes that are far beyond my capabilities. Can't find much about the Demaison route on the North Face of the Grandes Jorasses ... anyone know where I can find a bit of info on this route ...
Fred
Fred
In reply to FredMead:
An excellent start would be:
http://www.summitpost.org/show/mountain_link.pl/mountain_id/83
An excellent start would be:
http://www.summitpost.org/show/mountain_link.pl/mountain_id/83
In reply to FredMead:
Just ask an I will answer for what I know!
> Just playing around and looking at routes that are far beyond my capabilities. Can't find much about the Demaison route on the North Face of the Grandes Jorasses ... anyone know where I can find a bit of info on this route ...
>
> Fred
>
> Fred
Just ask an I will answer for what I know!
In reply to FredMead:
Do you mean the Shroud? If so, there has been a post discussing it on here recently.
Cheers,
George
Do you mean the Shroud? If so, there has been a post discussing it on here recently.
Cheers,
George
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Haha, well I was just wondering where abouts on the face it is, how hard it is and a bit of history behind it really...
Haha, well I was just wondering where abouts on the face it is, how hard it is and a bit of history behind it really...
In reply to FredMead:
Yes there is..
“Gousseault” (Bertone/Claret/Desmaison, 1973, VI 6, 6a/5c, A1/2 or M5/M6, 90°, 1200m) Desmaison and Gousseault attempt to open this line in 1971 ended in a much publicised and still controversial tragedy (Gousseault died of exhaustion and Desmaison was saved literally in extremis). The seriousness of this route is in a class of its own. Repeated only five times, 38 pitches long, physically very demanding, still (probably) the hardest line reaching Pt. Walker from this side. The rock quality is uneven in places, but not worse than the rest of the face, and its reputation of being a bowling alley was clearly wrong. Requires at least three if not four bivouacs. With a recent lower variant, has become predominantly a mixed route that can be climbed without removing crampons. Francois Marsigny, who made the fifth ascent of this line in 2003, thinks it one of the best mixed routes of this class in the entire Alps, deserving classic status.
Yes there is..
“Gousseault” (Bertone/Claret/Desmaison, 1973, VI 6, 6a/5c, A1/2 or M5/M6, 90°, 1200m) Desmaison and Gousseault attempt to open this line in 1971 ended in a much publicised and still controversial tragedy (Gousseault died of exhaustion and Desmaison was saved literally in extremis). The seriousness of this route is in a class of its own. Repeated only five times, 38 pitches long, physically very demanding, still (probably) the hardest line reaching Pt. Walker from this side. The rock quality is uneven in places, but not worse than the rest of the face, and its reputation of being a bowling alley was clearly wrong. Requires at least three if not four bivouacs. With a recent lower variant, has become predominantly a mixed route that can be climbed without removing crampons. Francois Marsigny, who made the fifth ascent of this line in 2003, thinks it one of the best mixed routes of this class in the entire Alps, deserving classic status.
In reply to Jonathan Lagoe:
Oh ok, I did read that but I didnt think it was THE Demaison route.
Thanks.
FM
Oh ok, I did read that but I didnt think it was THE Demaison route.
Thanks.
FM
In reply to FredMead:
Try and get hold of Desmaison's book "Total Alpinism" which describes both the attempts. The book is actually an english compendium of two of Desmaison's french language books.
boB
Try and get hold of Desmaison's book "Total Alpinism" which describes both the attempts. The book is actually an english compendium of two of Desmaison's french language books.
boB
In reply to FredMead:
The exact line is shown here (line n°4)
http://www.summitpost.org/images/132228.jpg
and here (line n° 4 again)
http://www.summitpost.org/images/132227.jpg
and here (line 1, 1b and 1a are alternative starts)
http://www.summitpost.org/images/131567.jpg
The route is very hard, probably (in overall terms of seriousness and overall committment) the hardest on the wall and one of the hardest in the Alps. It's very technical and very sustained, and very, very long - 36 pitches if you're using a 60m. No single pitch goes below 70° of steepness, and entire sections are 85° and above. There one long A1 section that could possibly go free with hard dry tooling. No single pitch is hard as the crux of "No Siesta" (another super-route on the wall), but the "Gousseault", as it's normally named, is longer and more serious.
The big feature of the climb is the fact that the line (a very logical and elegant one) goes above three enormous "ramps" that are located in the nw face of the Cassin spur, above the Shroud. The rock is relatively good, but in some area rockfall is frequent. The route is very exposed, and retreat after some point basically impossible.
The route was "almost" opened in one of the most controversial and tragic winter climbs in the history of mountaineering. On 11 February 1971 Desmaison began the climb with a young partner, aspiring guide Serge Gousseault. They found the route much more demanding than initially assumed, and progress was, for the first few days, slow but continuous (there were no modern ice tools available back then, so most of the climbing was on aid). One of their ropes was cut by rockfall, and given the lenght and lack of material, it was apparent after some time that had no chance to return unless they summited. Around Feb 18th Gousseault developed gradual symptoms of exhaustion (he was almost certainly suffering for some kind of glicemia related disease he had not previously disclosed to Desmaison).
Desperate to find an exit, Desmaison first made an attempt for an escape route towards the Hirondelles, but ice conditions prevented this. He then literally started to haul an almost incoherent Gousseault on a rightward ascending traverse toward the "Tour Rouge" on the Cassin spur, the left again on a last ramp. 80 meters below the summit Gousseault collapsed and refused to continue. Desmaison - who was still able to continue - decided to stay.
A this point, when it was clear they should have been rescue, things became even more complicate. A weird triangular thug of war developed between Desmaison, his wife Simone (who was initianlly in radio contact with him), and the Rescue authorities at Chamonix. Basically, the thing was that back in 1966 Desmaison had been kicked out from the Chamonix Guides because of an "unauthorized" (and over publicized) rescue of two Germans on the Drus he had organized with people like Garry Hemmings and Mick Burke. In 1971 he was still in bad terms with the Company and generally speaking the Cham authorities. They could not wait to get asked to rescue him, while his wife was uneasy between asking formally for a rescue or (she had no evidence of Gousseault illness because of broken radio link) just wait. When a heli was sent to see what was happening, there was an exchange of signs that the pilot took for "all is OK", while Desmaison was signalling "we need rescue" (since then a formal set of signs has been formalized). Things got worse again when on the Courmayeur side the local guides started to make pressures to launch an indipendent rescue attempt, just to get a flat "no" from Desmaison's wife - (still unsure his husband needed help or not).
When finally she decided to ask formally for a rescue, (and we're now on Feb 22nd!) Gousseault had already died, and Desmaison was immobilized with an incoming kidney failure. More mishap and controversy followed and finally on the 24th, a military helicopter with one Cham guide and three from Courmayeur mandaged to land on the Walker summit and snatch Desmaison away when he was on his very last leg (I've pictures of the rescue and he looks completely done for good!)
The whole story was an enormous media event, with hourly coverage from TV and radio, special newscasts etc. A bitter controversy followed, with Desmaison accusing Chamonix major Herzog (the one of the Annapurna) of big mismanagement, and Herzog accusing Desmaison to have badly staged a publicity stunt that had gone wrong. It's interesting to know that one after effect of this was the constitution of the PGHM as a separate, full time rescue corp, indipendent from the Guide Company.
Two years later, again in February, Desmaison returned with his son in law Michel Claret and with Courmayeur guide Giorgio Bertone (an all round amazing climber) and completed the route, discovering, to his bitterness, that the last 80 meters where actually easier than he had originally thought, and so Gousseault could have lived. The repetition took 7 days
In August 1977 Gordon Smith and Tobin Sorenson (who was bent on repeating in fast style all the hard, unrepeated routes on the Alps) made the first repeat. They did it in three days or four days (details are unclear), using a lot of the material left here three years before. They almost certainly made an initial direct variant (it's shown on my pictures) and spoke of severe rockfall danger.
The route was left alone for many years (thanks also to very bad publicity and progessive lack on interest on mixed climbing, until February 2000, when French climbers Stephane Benoist and Patrice Glairon Rappaz made the third complete ascent, in five days, following the original route. They spared no superlatives on the route, describing it as one of the hardest and most beautiful they had ever done. They described Desmaison performance as "extraterrestrial", and published a detailed topo you can find here
http://www.tvmountain.com/images/actualite/marsigny03/topo.jpg
In October 2000 Patrick Berhault and Philippe Magnin made the fourth ascent, in a blinding 26 hours of actual climbing. For technical reason they however didn't follow the entire route, but started on the Linceul then traversed right to reach the original route at one third. Patrick made incredible pictures, available on his "La Grande Cordeè" video.
Then in March 2003 Chamonix guides Olivier Larios and Francois Marsigny did the fifth repeat, in four days. They again followed the Smith-Sorenson initial variant (that maximized ice climbing and speed). They impression of the route was absolutely extatic. Marsigny defined it one of the best he had ever done - and one of the hardest.
Two more attempt for a repetition have been apparently repelled in 2004.
Ok, hope this has been of help!
The exact line is shown here (line n°4)
http://www.summitpost.org/images/132228.jpg
and here (line n° 4 again)
http://www.summitpost.org/images/132227.jpg
and here (line 1, 1b and 1a are alternative starts)
http://www.summitpost.org/images/131567.jpg
The route is very hard, probably (in overall terms of seriousness and overall committment) the hardest on the wall and one of the hardest in the Alps. It's very technical and very sustained, and very, very long - 36 pitches if you're using a 60m. No single pitch goes below 70° of steepness, and entire sections are 85° and above. There one long A1 section that could possibly go free with hard dry tooling. No single pitch is hard as the crux of "No Siesta" (another super-route on the wall), but the "Gousseault", as it's normally named, is longer and more serious.
The big feature of the climb is the fact that the line (a very logical and elegant one) goes above three enormous "ramps" that are located in the nw face of the Cassin spur, above the Shroud. The rock is relatively good, but in some area rockfall is frequent. The route is very exposed, and retreat after some point basically impossible.
The route was "almost" opened in one of the most controversial and tragic winter climbs in the history of mountaineering. On 11 February 1971 Desmaison began the climb with a young partner, aspiring guide Serge Gousseault. They found the route much more demanding than initially assumed, and progress was, for the first few days, slow but continuous (there were no modern ice tools available back then, so most of the climbing was on aid). One of their ropes was cut by rockfall, and given the lenght and lack of material, it was apparent after some time that had no chance to return unless they summited. Around Feb 18th Gousseault developed gradual symptoms of exhaustion (he was almost certainly suffering for some kind of glicemia related disease he had not previously disclosed to Desmaison).
Desperate to find an exit, Desmaison first made an attempt for an escape route towards the Hirondelles, but ice conditions prevented this. He then literally started to haul an almost incoherent Gousseault on a rightward ascending traverse toward the "Tour Rouge" on the Cassin spur, the left again on a last ramp. 80 meters below the summit Gousseault collapsed and refused to continue. Desmaison - who was still able to continue - decided to stay.
A this point, when it was clear they should have been rescue, things became even more complicate. A weird triangular thug of war developed between Desmaison, his wife Simone (who was initianlly in radio contact with him), and the Rescue authorities at Chamonix. Basically, the thing was that back in 1966 Desmaison had been kicked out from the Chamonix Guides because of an "unauthorized" (and over publicized) rescue of two Germans on the Drus he had organized with people like Garry Hemmings and Mick Burke. In 1971 he was still in bad terms with the Company and generally speaking the Cham authorities. They could not wait to get asked to rescue him, while his wife was uneasy between asking formally for a rescue or (she had no evidence of Gousseault illness because of broken radio link) just wait. When a heli was sent to see what was happening, there was an exchange of signs that the pilot took for "all is OK", while Desmaison was signalling "we need rescue" (since then a formal set of signs has been formalized). Things got worse again when on the Courmayeur side the local guides started to make pressures to launch an indipendent rescue attempt, just to get a flat "no" from Desmaison's wife - (still unsure his husband needed help or not).
When finally she decided to ask formally for a rescue, (and we're now on Feb 22nd!) Gousseault had already died, and Desmaison was immobilized with an incoming kidney failure. More mishap and controversy followed and finally on the 24th, a military helicopter with one Cham guide and three from Courmayeur mandaged to land on the Walker summit and snatch Desmaison away when he was on his very last leg (I've pictures of the rescue and he looks completely done for good!)
The whole story was an enormous media event, with hourly coverage from TV and radio, special newscasts etc. A bitter controversy followed, with Desmaison accusing Chamonix major Herzog (the one of the Annapurna) of big mismanagement, and Herzog accusing Desmaison to have badly staged a publicity stunt that had gone wrong. It's interesting to know that one after effect of this was the constitution of the PGHM as a separate, full time rescue corp, indipendent from the Guide Company.
Two years later, again in February, Desmaison returned with his son in law Michel Claret and with Courmayeur guide Giorgio Bertone (an all round amazing climber) and completed the route, discovering, to his bitterness, that the last 80 meters where actually easier than he had originally thought, and so Gousseault could have lived. The repetition took 7 days
In August 1977 Gordon Smith and Tobin Sorenson (who was bent on repeating in fast style all the hard, unrepeated routes on the Alps) made the first repeat. They did it in three days or four days (details are unclear), using a lot of the material left here three years before. They almost certainly made an initial direct variant (it's shown on my pictures) and spoke of severe rockfall danger.
The route was left alone for many years (thanks also to very bad publicity and progessive lack on interest on mixed climbing, until February 2000, when French climbers Stephane Benoist and Patrice Glairon Rappaz made the third complete ascent, in five days, following the original route. They spared no superlatives on the route, describing it as one of the hardest and most beautiful they had ever done. They described Desmaison performance as "extraterrestrial", and published a detailed topo you can find here
http://www.tvmountain.com/images/actualite/marsigny03/topo.jpg
In October 2000 Patrick Berhault and Philippe Magnin made the fourth ascent, in a blinding 26 hours of actual climbing. For technical reason they however didn't follow the entire route, but started on the Linceul then traversed right to reach the original route at one third. Patrick made incredible pictures, available on his "La Grande Cordeè" video.
Then in March 2003 Chamonix guides Olivier Larios and Francois Marsigny did the fifth repeat, in four days. They again followed the Smith-Sorenson initial variant (that maximized ice climbing and speed). They impression of the route was absolutely extatic. Marsigny defined it one of the best he had ever done - and one of the hardest.
Two more attempt for a repetition have been apparently repelled in 2004.
Ok, hope this has been of help!
In reply to FredMead:
Desmaison put also two others route on the wall - the Linceul in 1969 (with Robert Flematty) and the Pt. Margherita spur with Jean Couzy in 1958.
However - THE Desmaison route on the wall is actually the "Gousseault" line
> (In reply to Jonathan Lagoe - UKC)
>
> Oh ok, I did read that but I didnt think it was THE Demaison route.
>
> Oh ok, I did read that but I didnt think it was THE Demaison route.
Desmaison put also two others route on the wall - the Linceul in 1969 (with Robert Flematty) and the Pt. Margherita spur with Jean Couzy in 1958.
However - THE Desmaison route on the wall is actually the "Gousseault" line
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
What an outstanding post!
Thankyou very much for that, it must have taken you ages. It is incredibly informative and actually quite gripping reading!!
Just out of interest ... why was Demaisons rescue of the Germans from the Dru so contraversial?
FM
What an outstanding post!
Thankyou very much for that, it must have taken you ages. It is incredibly informative and actually quite gripping reading!!
Just out of interest ... why was Demaisons rescue of the Germans from the Dru so contraversial?
FM
In reply to FredMead:
Thanks, but in all honestly actually it took me not much - it's pretty much stuff I'm very familiar with.
The two Germans were stranded high on the west face, and local rescue strategy to get them was climbing the north face until near the Niche, then traverse. Remember that no rescue on the West Face had ever been done at the time.
Desmaison (who had not been formally asked to be involved in the operation) felt this strategy was too time consuming and bound to failure. So he decidede to go straight up the classic route on the West Face (the French one, not the American direct). Hemmings and Burke (who were in very good terms with Desmaison - he wrote a very poignant chapter on Hemmings on his "Total Alpinism" tome) decided to collaborate, along with a coupe of others. They raced upon the west face, reaching the two Germans when the other rescue party was beginning the traverse on the face. Whn the two groups came on voice contact, Desmaison was asked by the other team's leader (Gerard Devouassoux - who was incidentally one of his best friends!) to stand by and "wait for instructions". Desmaison instead decided to continue, "snatched" the two Germans climbers and took them down to safety.
The rescue was extensively covered by big European magazines , with Hemmings hailed as an hero. However, Desmaison was accused of "reckless behaviour", and kicked out of the Guide Company.
The interesting link with the Jorasses rescue is that Devoussoux (who died on Everest on '75) was the lone Chamonix guide on the helicopter that rescued Desmaison, and he was the one who plunged into the abyss of the north face attacched to the winch cable to get him away. Desmaison itself felt very happy about that, and for all the litigations that ensued, he formally thanked him in his book.
Thanks, but in all honestly actually it took me not much - it's pretty much stuff I'm very familiar with.
The two Germans were stranded high on the west face, and local rescue strategy to get them was climbing the north face until near the Niche, then traverse. Remember that no rescue on the West Face had ever been done at the time.
Desmaison (who had not been formally asked to be involved in the operation) felt this strategy was too time consuming and bound to failure. So he decidede to go straight up the classic route on the West Face (the French one, not the American direct). Hemmings and Burke (who were in very good terms with Desmaison - he wrote a very poignant chapter on Hemmings on his "Total Alpinism" tome) decided to collaborate, along with a coupe of others. They raced upon the west face, reaching the two Germans when the other rescue party was beginning the traverse on the face. Whn the two groups came on voice contact, Desmaison was asked by the other team's leader (Gerard Devouassoux - who was incidentally one of his best friends!) to stand by and "wait for instructions". Desmaison instead decided to continue, "snatched" the two Germans climbers and took them down to safety.
The rescue was extensively covered by big European magazines , with Hemmings hailed as an hero. However, Desmaison was accused of "reckless behaviour", and kicked out of the Guide Company.
The interesting link with the Jorasses rescue is that Devoussoux (who died on Everest on '75) was the lone Chamonix guide on the helicopter that rescued Desmaison, and he was the one who plunged into the abyss of the north face attacched to the winch cable to get him away. Desmaison itself felt very happy about that, and for all the litigations that ensued, he formally thanked him in his book.
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
What an unbelieveable story. Climbing Dru West Face to rescue another person. Now that is some serious heroism!!
Fred
What an unbelieveable story. Climbing Dru West Face to rescue another person. Now that is some serious heroism!!
Fred
In reply to Luca Signorelli: Hey Luca - a post to your normal standards! Can I also ask you about the Little Macintyre. I read on summitpost that it is felt to be a better route than the shroud. What do you think of the route and what is it like. Have you done it?
In reply to mike kann:
My regular partner did it, and it's right at the top of my current immediate "ambitions" (maybe next year...). It's not overtly technical but sustained in the second half (there's a final "narrow" between 85° and 90°). My mate feels it's less monotonous than the Shroud, with more overall technical interest and variety - and is quite sheltered from objective danger. On the other hand it's less "awesome" than the Shroud - at very least because the rock corner on the R is hiding the view of the Cassin spur, that from the Shroud and the Hirondelles is ab-so-lu-te-ly breathtaking. It's also less serious, because you're reaching the Hirondelles below the main difficulties (no raps on the Rey crack with ropes jamming etc.)
> (In reply to Luca Signorelli) Hey Luca - a post to your normal standards! Can I also ask you about the Little Macintyre. I read on summitpost that it is felt to be a better route than the shroud. What do you think of the route and what is it like. Have you done it?
My regular partner did it, and it's right at the top of my current immediate "ambitions" (maybe next year...). It's not overtly technical but sustained in the second half (there's a final "narrow" between 85° and 90°). My mate feels it's less monotonous than the Shroud, with more overall technical interest and variety - and is quite sheltered from objective danger. On the other hand it's less "awesome" than the Shroud - at very least because the rock corner on the R is hiding the view of the Cassin spur, that from the Shroud and the Hirondelles is ab-so-lu-te-ly breathtaking. It's also less serious, because you're reaching the Hirondelles below the main difficulties (no raps on the Rey crack with ropes jamming etc.)
In reply to Luca Signorelli: That is very interesting. What is the normal season on the route now that summer ice lines are becoming few and far between? I prefer things which may be technically harder but less dangerous! Sounds like just the sort of thing I'd like to do! I guess it depends on the winter build up - what do you think would be the latest it could realistically be attempted?
In reply to mike kann:
In the last few years it's late autumn. 2004 November was splendid, "styrofoam" nevè everywhere, clear skies, not too cold etc. February 2005 was good too but with fragile ice. March and April are becoming quite snowy - or downright hot! However, it can theoretically attempted in decent conditions until early May. Later may be too hot.
It's not much when you CAN go, but when you CANNOT. Summer is not regularly hot and dry, but this does not mean we can have an exception sometimes in the future!
> (In reply to Luca Signorelli) That is very interesting. What is the normal season on the route now that summer ice lines are becoming few and far between? I prefer things which may be technically harder but less dangerous! Sounds like just the sort of thing I'd like to do! I guess it depends on the winter build up - what do you think would be the latest it could realistically be attempted?
In the last few years it's late autumn. 2004 November was splendid, "styrofoam" nevè everywhere, clear skies, not too cold etc. February 2005 was good too but with fragile ice. March and April are becoming quite snowy - or downright hot! However, it can theoretically attempted in decent conditions until early May. Later may be too hot.
It's not much when you CAN go, but when you CANNOT. Summer is not regularly hot and dry, but this does not mean we can have an exception sometimes in the future!
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
You seem to know an awful lot about the Grandes Jorasses ... if you don't mind me asking how many times have you climbed it and by which routes?
Fred
You seem to know an awful lot about the Grandes Jorasses ... if you don't mind me asking how many times have you climbed it and by which routes?
Fred
In reply to Luca Signorelli: As I thought! Well maybe I'll come out and have a crack at it this year. Would you mind if I contacted you nearer the time and ask about conditions? I'm guessing you are a guide or at the very least you spend a lot of time in the hills - first hand experience is so much more useful than a conditions website!
In reply to FredMead:
Again read Desmaison's book (for his side of the Dru rescue). There is a biography of Gary Hemming, see http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0948153385/026-1373271-8207622 , who sadly took his own life in 1969.
boB
Again read Desmaison's book (for his side of the Dru rescue). There is a biography of Gary Hemming, see http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0948153385/026-1373271-8207622 , who sadly took his own life in 1969.
boB
In reply to FredMead:
I'm maybe going to disappoint you, but only four, and never by the north face! I climbed the West Ridge, the Hirondelles, and the Normal twice. I attempted the Tronchey and the Pra Sec ridges, but never got above more or less halfway through. I've been however a millon times up and down the GJ slopes - I've truly a love affair with that mountain.
My usual partner has a far more impressive rooster, with a new route and several repetitions, including the Cassin spur in 6 hours.
> (In reply to Luca Signorelli)
>
> You seem to know an awful lot about the Grandes Jorasses ... if you don't mind me asking how many times have you climbed it and by which routes?
>
> You seem to know an awful lot about the Grandes Jorasses ... if you don't mind me asking how many times have you climbed it and by which routes?
I'm maybe going to disappoint you, but only four, and never by the north face! I climbed the West Ridge, the Hirondelles, and the Normal twice. I attempted the Tronchey and the Pra Sec ridges, but never got above more or less halfway through. I've been however a millon times up and down the GJ slopes - I've truly a love affair with that mountain.
My usual partner has a far more impressive rooster, with a new route and several repetitions, including the Cassin spur in 6 hours.
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Dear Luca
Do you know if this is the same Gordon Smith, I met, who did routes in Scotland back then, and if, where is he now?
Norrie
> In August 1977 Gordon Smith and Tobin Sorenson (who was bent on repeating in fast style all the hard, unrepeated routes on the Alps) made the first repeat. They did it in three days or four days (details are unclear), using a lot of the material left here three years before.
Dear Luca
Do you know if this is the same Gordon Smith, I met, who did routes in Scotland back then, and if, where is he now?
Norrie
In reply to mike kann:
I'm NOT a guide - I really want to make this clear - I'm not even a very good climber, by the way! But it's true I spend a lot of time in the area, and if I have first hand informations, I will happily oblige...
> (In reply to Luca Signorelli) As I thought! Well maybe I'll come out and have a crack at it this year. Would you mind if I contacted you nearer the time and ask about conditions? I'm guessing you are a guide or at the very least you spend a lot of time in the hills - first hand experience is so much more useful than a conditions website!
I'm NOT a guide - I really want to make this clear - I'm not even a very good climber, by the way! But it's true I spend a lot of time in the area, and if I have first hand informations, I will happily oblige...
In reply to Norrie Muir:
Yes, he's probably the same person. I've no idea what he's doing now, and sincerely I wish I knew, because I would really to ask him an awful lot of things about the Gousseault repeat and his climbs in this area!
> Do you know if this is the same Gordon Smith, I met, who did routes in Scotland back then, and if, where is he now?
Yes, he's probably the same person. I've no idea what he's doing now, and sincerely I wish I knew, because I would really to ask him an awful lot of things about the Gousseault repeat and his climbs in this area!
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Dissapoint me? Why! 4 times up the Grandes Jorasses is pretty impressive!
And Cassin Spur in 6 hours ... wow! Thats quick!
Dissapoint me? Why! 4 times up the Grandes Jorasses is pretty impressive!
And Cassin Spur in 6 hours ... wow! Thats quick!
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
I'm sure thats not true... Thanks for the info and I'll give you a bell later in the season!
> I'm not even a very good climber, by the way!
I'm sure thats not true... Thanks for the info and I'll give you a bell later in the season!
In reply to Norrie Muir: Not sure which Gordon Smith you knew, but its the same guy who put up some new routes on Nevis in the mid-late 70s (I think Pointless is one of the better known), don't know why but I have an idea he went into teaching but may well have got that wrong
In reply to Doug:
Dear Doug
That's the same one. I never met him again after he fell and broke his leg trying a new route on the Ben in about March 77, we later did the route and got his ropes.
Norrie
Dear Doug
That's the same one. I never met him again after he fell and broke his leg trying a new route on the Ben in about March 77, we later did the route and got his ropes.
Norrie
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Dear Luca
Thanks, I would like to met him again.
Norrie
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
> Yes, he's probably the same person. I've no idea what he's doing now, and sincerely I wish I knew, because I would really to ask him an awful lot of things about the Gousseault repeat and his climbs in this area!
> Yes, he's probably the same person. I've no idea what he's doing now, and sincerely I wish I knew, because I would really to ask him an awful lot of things about the Gousseault repeat and his climbs in this area!
Dear Luca
Thanks, I would like to met him again.
Norrie
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Fantastic post Luca, didn't Gordon Smith and Tobin Sorenson do the Directissima on the Eiger alpine style?
-John
Fantastic post Luca, didn't Gordon Smith and Tobin Sorenson do the Directissima on the Eiger alpine style?
-John
In reply to JohnBoy: almost right, that was Tobin & Alex MacIntyre
In reply to JohnBoy:
Sorenson and Alex MacIntyre did that. Sorenson climbed also the direct route to the Dru Couloir with Rick Accomazo and (I think) the second ever repeat of the Lesueur route on the Grand Dru.
> Fantastic post Luca, didn't Gordon Smith and Tobin Sorenson do the Directissima on the Eiger alpine style?
Sorenson and Alex MacIntyre did that. Sorenson climbed also the direct route to the Dru Couloir with Rick Accomazo and (I think) the second ever repeat of the Lesueur route on the Grand Dru.
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Yep, your right it was AM, that Sorenson was an interesting character, wasn't he quite religious, I seem to remember he went to Aus and did the 1st ascent of a really hard rock route that the locals had been trying for a while.
Wasn't Gordon Smith's nickname 'Speedy'?
-John
Yep, your right it was AM, that Sorenson was an interesting character, wasn't he quite religious, I seem to remember he went to Aus and did the 1st ascent of a really hard rock route that the locals had been trying for a while.
Wasn't Gordon Smith's nickname 'Speedy'?
-John
In reply to JohnBoy:
Hold on - didn't Tobin Sorenson do some rock routes down under with non other than John 'done a bit in the Peak' Allen. Also wasn't there a route on Mt Cook
I need to dig out my old Mountain Mags!
-John
Hold on - didn't Tobin Sorenson do some rock routes down under with non other than John 'done a bit in the Peak' Allen. Also wasn't there a route on Mt Cook
I need to dig out my old Mountain Mags!
-John
In reply to JohnBoy:
Are there any biographies / articles of Tobin Sorenson or Alex McIntyre out there?
Are there any biographies / articles of Tobin Sorenson or Alex McIntyre out there?
In reply to adnix: Don't know of any biographies as such, but both published articles in Mountain (& maybe elsewhere), some of which have been repubished in the Games Climbers Play or Mirror in the Cliff. Alex also co wrote 'Shishmapangma' with Doug Scott. Some other climbers of the time also wrote articles in which they feature (again see Moutain). There's one line I keep half-remembering (forget from where/whom) about approaching the Jorasses, with Alex advising his partner 'pretend to be a fairy' as a way of not breaking through the snow pack
In reply to Doug:
There was a very nice portrait of MacIntyre penned by John Porter on a old issue (n.r 4, to be precise) or long-defunct magazine "Mountain Review". It's very well done, and worth trying to locate a copy.
Alex wrote a magnificent story of the Jorasses climb, title "Cold Enough for Comfort" on a old issue (I think nr. 103 but I can be wrong) of "Mountain" magazine. VERY worth the effort to locate it - they simply don't write like that anymore.
There was a very nice portrait of MacIntyre penned by John Porter on a old issue (n.r 4, to be precise) or long-defunct magazine "Mountain Review". It's very well done, and worth trying to locate a copy.
Alex wrote a magnificent story of the Jorasses climb, title "Cold Enough for Comfort" on a old issue (I think nr. 103 but I can be wrong) of "Mountain" magazine. VERY worth the effort to locate it - they simply don't write like that anymore.
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Luca
The CEFC article covered his climb with Nick Colton, didn't he throw all his gear away at the top in a moment of 'revelation'. Nick works at the BMC if you wanted to find out any more info about the ascent, he's a nice guy and am sure ewould help you
-John
Luca
The CEFC article covered his climb with Nick Colton, didn't he throw all his gear away at the top in a moment of 'revelation'. Nick works at the BMC if you wanted to find out any more info about the ascent, he's a nice guy and am sure ewould help you
-John
In reply to JohnBoy-onthemove:
The gear throwing episode happened on the Drus, apparently above the Nomine Crack, when MacIntyre and Colton climbed the NE couloir.
Thanks for your suggestion - I'm definitely going to try to get in touch with him.
The gear throwing episode happened on the Drus, apparently above the Nomine Crack, when MacIntyre and Colton climbed the NE couloir.
Thanks for your suggestion - I'm definitely going to try to get in touch with him.
In reply to Luca Signorelli:
Is there anything you don't know? I must really re-read my Mountain Mags, they've been in a box in the loft for 15 years, and the memory isn't what it used to be......
Cheers
-John
Is there anything you don't know? I must really re-read my Mountain Mags, they've been in a box in the loft for 15 years, and the memory isn't what it used to be......
Cheers
-John
In reply to FredMead:
Since you all talk so much about the Mountain mags I ordered some back issues (everything after 1975). It wasn't cheap but I guess it's worth the money. It shall keep me busy for some time once it arrives.
These modern magazines don't really do the trick anymore. Alpinist is good but it could be better.
Since you all talk so much about the Mountain mags I ordered some back issues (everything after 1975). It wasn't cheap but I guess it's worth the money. It shall keep me busy for some time once it arrives.
These modern magazines don't really do the trick anymore. Alpinist is good but it could be better.
In reply to adnix: where from ? must have cost a fair bit
In reply to Doug:
It costs just about the same what I earn in three days. I recon it's well worth the trouble. I'll email you the contacts once I get my stuff first.
It costs just about the same what I earn in three days. I recon it's well worth the trouble. I'll email you the contacts once I get my stuff first.
In reply to adnix: I already have most of them from around No 10 onwards although they're in storage back in Scotland (along with most of my belongings) - but I do have a few gaps (like 1-10)
Have fun reading, should keep you occupied for a few rainy days
Have fun reading, should keep you occupied for a few rainy days
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...