UKC

Looking for inspiration for the summer, how feasible is the American Direct on the Petit Dru these days? I understand its had ascents (partial/full?) since the rock falls but is it best left to the suicidal now or is it still recommended?

Failing that, any recommendations for routes of a similar nature/class/standard in the Mont Blanc range?

Thanks

In reply to chris m fisher: Wouldn't touch it with your's youth!

In reply to chris m fisher: The Grand Dru south face has some good routes (not that I've done them) that are still safe. Here's a tick list to read up on and get inspired:

Fou S Face
Petites Jorasses W Face (both classic and Anouk)
Pilier des Trois Pointes
Grand Capucin (maybe the closest thing to the Am. Direct in that it's great granite to an amazing pinnacle) - pick your line - the easiest (and the only one I've done) is the Swiss Route
Cordier Pillar
W Face and S Ridge Aig. Noire (S Ridge is easier at TD)
Lots at the Envers des Aiguille or Dalmazzi huts

In reply to davidoldfart:

Add to that list:

Tour des Jorasses (it's on the italian side of the Jorasses)
Petite Clocher du Portalet
Pic Inominata (opposite the W Face of the Aig Noire)
Le Minaret on Aig du Argentiere
Red Pillar of Brouillard - if you want a high altitude adventure

ALC

In reply to chris m fisher:
I was on the american direct when the second big rock fall happened a few years ago. we retreated from the jammed block. the pnly section that seemed threatened was the lower easier slabs that have bolts in them now and can be climbed very quickly.
I think i am right in saying that it still gets done.
I've been round the south side of the dru a few times and it is really nice, there are some great td and above routes there which have hardly any fixed kit (the american direct is retreatable from every stance) and are much more adventurious, however be sure to ask about the condition of the charpoa (sp?) glacier as this has been on occasion very nasty. The hut there is private, there is flat bivi space near it but i don't think that there was any covered sites.
hope this helps
James e

In reply to davidoldfart:

The classic route (Cavalieri-Perego-Mellano-Tron, 1959) is splendid, and still very much underrated (some people thinks it's better than the Gervasutti pillar). An historical side note - this route was Andrea Mellano "consolation prize" for having missed snatching the first ascent of the Central Pillar of Freney - in 1959 - as the weather window was not compatible with the group short holiday time (they were all factory workers). Andrea still kick himself for having missed the chance to climb the Central Pillar two years in advance, and change the history of climbing!



The granite on the Capucin is much better (and more sound) than on the Drus, but the texture and the type of climbing is also completely different,


The W face of the Noire is much more serious than the W face of the Drus, particularly the descent

My vote for the best route on that fashion - the mighty Tour Des Jorasses

http://img.ukclimbing.com/i/74086.jpg

The big diehadral is the Machetto route (Calcagno-Cerrutti-Machetto, 1974, TD+, max 6b, 400m), a great route in the classic style. The route is normally rappelled back from the end of the major difficulties, but in theory there are 300m more to climb.

On the L (on the "shield") there are two of the best Piola routes ever - "Abysse" (Piola-Anker-Robert, 1993, ABO, 7a+/A0 or 7b+, 450m), the demonstration that a route with some bolt can be as ferocious and engaged as a traditional route, and the more relaxed "Etoile Filantes" (Piola-Anker-Strapazzon, 1988, ED+, 6c/A0 or 7b, 450m).

The rock on all these route is superlative, the massif best (along with the Gran Cap). Access is not completely banal (along the Boccalatte hut trail, the a couple of hours over the Grandes Jorasses glacier), and the "ambiance" is definitely not the one of a road crag!!!

In reply to a lakeland climber:


Agreed... See my post before...
I believe you mean the Aiguille Croux, a satellite of the Innominata with some interesting rock route

The classic Bonatti route is excellent (Bonatti-Oggioni, 1959, TD+, 6a mandatory, 400m to the top of the Pillar) but very often icy and serious. Younger climbers sometime prefer "Les Anneaux Magiques (Anker-Piola, 1989, ED, 6c mandatory, 400m to the top of the pillar), which however is really a "modern" route.

In reply to chris m fisher:

Depends how you are planning to do the American Direct. If you mean going up to the junction with the original route and abbing off, then lots of good suggestions on the thread. Perhaps the Tour des Jorasses (we did the Machetto route)is closest in style. As Luca hinted in his post of 20:35, it's quite a long walk-in, but worth it.

If you mean going to the top, then I suspect many of the routes mentioned don't really compare as an experience - I guess the W Face of the Noire might, but I've not done it.

I'd add the S. Pillar of the Bec D'Oiseaux, the Gervasitti Pillar and the South Face of Pointe Gugliermina to the list of inspiring routes already mentioned. (Although a combination of incompetence and bad luck foiled my attempts on the latter, so I don't really know what it's like.)

In reply to Simon CD:


There's a serious difference on the seriousness (no pun intended) of the two descents - as already stated in countless UKC threads, the Noire is a bit of a "special" case...


Massimo Giuliberti a Turin climber who has completed the Freney triptych (Noire W, Gugliermina and Central Pillar) tells me that the Gugliermina was surprisingly the most engaged and strenuous of the lot, despite being much lower down than the Freney. And again, there's the descent from the Aiguille Blanche!

In reply to Luca Signorelli: Which way would you descend from a route on the Noire W? I had assumed you would use the normal route which isn't that bad, but perhaps my memory is failing or I'm talking rubbish!

(I did try to search old threads but I don't seem to be very good at that either!)

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Ta, couldn't remember the name just an interesting spire fairly close to the Monzino hut.

ALC

In reply to Simon CD:

If you want information, go to Luca's profile and do a search, here are his over 6 month postings, along with others comments;

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=0&dates=1&na...

Cheers for the recomendations everyone, enough routes to last a lifetime...

Am i right in thinking most parties abb off at the jammed blocks on the american direct now then?

In reply to chris m fisher:

They've done that for a long time, certainly since the early 1980s, don't know of many parties that summited. I'm fairly certain that the upper section (prior to joining the N face) was badly affected by the rockfall though I think the 90m diedre is still doable to the German's Ledge.

ALC

In reply to chris m fisher:

How much of the American Direct actually still exists?

http://www.pbase.com/chris_craggs/image/96174874


Chris

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Just a couple of important points for anyone thinking of the Gervasutti on the Gugliermina:

On a recent thread about the CP of Freney I mentioned our difficulty in getting back to the col de l'Innominata in the dark from the from the lower Freney glacier. The lateness of our recrossing of the glacier was not down to the difficulty of the route (here I assume you're talking about the classic Gervasutti...) which went relatively quickly.

1. We spied out a good line across the glacier from the col the night before. When we got down to the glacier in the early morning we couldn't find it. We aimed for the start of the Schneider ledges but were constantly pushed rightwards. We found ourselves nearer the couloir to the right of the ledges and had to climb a steep ice pitch to gain the ledges (the route starts from these ledges). When we came back down we obviously didn't go back down the ice, but headed straight back across the glacier, and of course there were no tracks to follow...

2. We left our boots at the foot of the route, along with axes and crampons, therefore we climbed light. The descent was therefore difficult in the broken rock and snow in rock boots. My partner was happy to descend moving together on this terrain, but I was not and insisted on rapping down several sections. This was very time consuming.

In reply to chris m fisher:

Is this commonly done now or is it now not recommended?

(I am not bothered about going higher than the jammed block and would abseil down from there).

In reply to sutty:

Thanks. I've tried. Still pleading uselessness.

I have worked out why I was surprised at Luca's comment on the seriousness of the Noire W Face routes. The 1990 AC guide describes the Ratti-Vitali as "no longer a particularly serious proposition" due to the good fixed anchors allowing an abseil descent. I think this comment rather put me off the route in my youth!

I'm sure Luca is correct. Just interested why.

In reply to Simon CD:

I'm sure the Courmayeur guides have equipped a rappel line down the Ratti Vitali. I'm also sure Mr Signorelli will be along to confirm or otherwise...

In reply to JTM:

Maybe he's referring to the approach to the route across the lower Freney glacier...

In reply to JTM:

Well that rappel line is now 20 years old, has it been replaced or checked over the years?

Simon, not saying Luca has commented on every route, just a lot of them.

In reply to sutty:

What I mean is that I've long understood that it is maintained for the guide's training purposes. We'll see soon...

In reply to jon:
>

Yes, there's an equipped descent line following the route in the high section (from pitch #17 to pitch #12) then moving well to the L towards the Dames Anglaises (so the lower part of the rappel line DOES NOT FOLLOW THE ROUTE!!). It's well equipped (in theory) but:

1) First rappel is from pitch #16, and not from the summit (and it's quite problematic to find the start of the descent). This may have changed recently - I'll ask tomorrow locally and let you know.

2) Rappel from #16 to #12 are off axis and require some very "demanding" manoeuvre at the stances.

3) The final part (as explained above) doesn't follow the route, but goes on the L (N) of the huge spur that marks the "base" of the climb.

4) Several section of the (lower) descent are exposed to rockfall, particularly during thunderstorms

4) As already guessed by someone - once your down you're not safe, because you've still to cross the Freney back to the other side, then climb the Col de L'Innominata etc.

The scope of the abseils weren't to give a faster or safer way to escape from the Noire, as the normal route, for all its problems, is probably safer. And there's no comparison with the Drus (the Petit Drus, I mean). While in bad weather they're both potentially deadly, the Noire descent is much more complex.

At the end of the day, the Aiguille Noire is a mountain with an attitude (actually, it's THE mountain of the MB range with an attitude), so there's no easy way in, and no safe way out.

In reply to Luca Signorelli: Thanks Luca.

In reply to Luca Signorelli: My appetite is wetted. Can't wait for the summer!

In reply to Luca Signorelli:
.

So a few questions. Why are the rappels equipped only from pitch 16 and not the top? Were they equipped to provide an escape from the R/V or for other reasons? Is it indeed possible to approach the first of the rappels from the top of the mountain? (I take your point that the E ridge, for all its difficulties is safer - just curiosity, that's all)?

Don't you think the Aig Blanche shares your 'Mountain Of Attitude' accolade with the Noire...?

In reply to JTM:

I believe they were originally going all the way up the main ridge. I've to talk with the responsible of rescue team in Courmayeur (he's in charge of the equipment of training lines), so I'll learn on the current state of equipment. Let you know, a bit busy right now!

>Were they equipped to provide an escape from the R/V or for other reasons?

I believe it was originally used for guide training purposes - and it's still used that way, or it was until not long ago. There was another line for such exercises on the south face of the Noire (above the Combalet) but it was abandoned years ago. There's another well know training route on the Aiguille Croux, above the Monzino. Also, the VdA rescue conduce joint exercizes with the French and Swiss colleagues there in summer.


I believe you could, but the risk is quite high. It's not an escape route!

They're different mountains. The Blanche is really the White Sister - cold, aloof, a bit distant, sitting in the middle of the Peuterey ridge with its elegant shape and not one care in the world. It's a beautiful peak, and it's definitely the most difficult of all 4000m, but its fascinations comes from the remoteness and the coldness - once you climb it you feel like you've finally dated the girl you used to like a lot in high school, but never gave you a chance. In case of bad weather or if you're not fit and acclimatized may be deadly (more than any other 4000m, maybe with the Jorasses), but never feels like it wants to kill you on purpose.

The Noire is entirely another thing. It looks like it was custom designed by a bunch of Star Wars nerds - the Death Star of the alpine peaks. It's a 3770m high trap: the normal route is relatively easy to climb, but a nightmare to descend (particularly because it NEVER look the same seen from above as it seem from below!). The South Ridge is definitely less dangerous, but again, not easy way down. And if the weather changes, you're in for the time of your life (read Diemberger chapter on its Noire ordeal in "Summits and Secrets", and you'll see).

Beside the romantic nonsense above, there's one cold fact that give you an idea of the difference between "La Blanche" and "La Noire". From the shoulder above Pt. Gugliermina - the actual beginning of technical terrain while descending the Blanche to SW - to "safety" (the Craveri bivy hut), the vertical distance is 500m, and the actual climbing distance is let's say 800. But from the summit of the Aiguille Noire to "safety" (the Borelli hut), the height difference is 1440m, and the actual climbing distance is almost 2km, 85% on technical, treacherous terrain.

This picture gives a nice idea of the difference (and the difference in character) of the two peaks.

http://www.summitpost.org/images/large/435553.jpg

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

...... and from the other side too: http://www.pbase.com/chris_craggs/image/96143421


Chris

In reply to Luca Signorelli:
(read Diemberger chapter on its Noire ordeal in "Summits and Secrets", and you'll see).
>

Yes, I have. Brilliant. One of THE definitive mountaineering books.

Some years ago now, I forget when exactly, I was climbing at Hueco Tanks in Texas and saw an elderly gentleman with shoulder length white hair climbing a steep 5.10. He came over to us later and started chatting. He was climbing, I think, with his grand daughter. He had a Germanic accent under his American one. He told me he had climbed MB twice. I forget the first route, but the second time was the first ascent of the Peuterey Integrale (via the S ridge). His name was Richard Hechtel, if I remember correctly. He must have been in his seventies then, it seemed anyway. I believe he died recently. What a chance encounter. Do you know anything about him?

In reply to JTM:

Oh and yes, that's what I'd understood the rappel line was for, VdA guides training. Thanks for confirming that.

In reply to JTM:


Yesss, Richard Hectel and Gunther Kittelmann, 24,25 and 26 July 1953. They were the first to complete the traverse via the S ridge up to the summit, but the route had been attempted at least twice before - first by Warta and Krobath in 1934, before Krobath (with Gottner and Schmaderer) made the first integral traverse of the Peuterey Ridge WITHOUT climbing the S ridge (they eventually climbed first the Mt. Noir de Peuterey (the left "armrest" of the Aiguille Noire) and went to the Noire via the E ridge. And then in 1949 Courmayeur guides Sergio Viotto and Marcel Bareux complete the traverse of the Noire (via the S ridge), the Dames Anglaises (which they actually climbed, something that now is done rarely) and the Aiguille Blanche. They had to abandon at the Col de Peuterey because the weather turned foul.

Hectel and Kittleman had an ace in the sleeve, as they climbed the Noire once to bring bivy material up to the summit, they they climbed it again (via the S ridge) to complete the traverse. So they had the advantage to climb the S ridge "light" (technically speaking it's the most difficult section). A fine achievement for sure.

However, Hectel told you the truth - he had ALREADY climbed Mt. Blanc, and it had been again quite a big exploit: he had climbed the "classic" Peuterey Ridge (via the Freney Glacier, the Schneider ledges/couloir and the Aiguille Blance) solo (first solo ever!) in 1937, in less than 36 hours from Entreves to the summit! Really something, even in these days.

Hectel had a truly adventurous life - he was a German physic researcher who migrated in the US after the war, and I seem to remember he contributed mainly in the field of laser research, but he may have also been involved with nuclear physics. He wrote a book ("The Merry Go Round Of My Life") which I've been trying to locate a copy of for quite a long time without success.

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Fascinating stuff - thank you for that.


Chris

In reply to Luca Signorelli: Your erudition is amazing. Please put it all in a book or several...

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

http://www.amazon.de/Merry-Go-Round-My-Life-Adventurers-Diary/dp/0533093236...

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Quite a guy, Hectel. Now, talking of aces up sleeves, I've got a copy of Diemberger's 'Monte Bianco - La grande cresta di Peuterey' film. Haven't watched it for a while but seem to remember they had a few caches on that ascent...

In reply to JTM: Off topic but I've just finished reading Bonatti's "Mountains of my life." His route with Zapelli on the Grande Pilier D'Angle reads scary in that but looks suicide on your photo!

In reply to BenTiffin:

The Bonatti - Zappelli is a dangerous line, and it was even more dangerous if you think it was climbed with completely traditional gear (i.e. one ice axe each, every steep bit was climbed by step cutting). It's one of the last few really great ice/mixed climb completed in that style - the others being the Shroud, the Desmaison / Gousseault and few others.

In reply to BenTiffin:

Not my photo... it's Gav P's.