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Newbie - which expedition company to use ??

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swayzak 27 Sep 2006
hi

I have the cliched (and insane) dream of climbing Everest.

I have contacted a company (Adventurepeaks.com) who kindly advised me of the sort of program I would need, which could possibly culiminate in a professionally led, non-guided attempt.

Although relatively recent on the Everest scene, they seem to have a good track record.

My target would be maybe an attempt in 4 or 5 years time - here is an example I discussed with the Director of the company:

Feb/Mar 2007 Scottish walking mountaineering course, 5 days
Summer 2007 Alpine basic, 1 week or Tien Shan, 2 weeks
Winter 2007/8 snow & ice course, 1 week
Summer 2008 5-6000m peaks (he recommended Bolivian peaks)
2009 7000m peak(s) e.g. Aconcagua, Baruntse (Nepal)etc
2010 Everest ?

I'm male & pretty fit - cycle 14 miles a day, 5 days a week (have done for 3 1/2 years) - and am 38 years old.


I obviously realise that progress may stop at any time along this, depending on how I get on.

My main confusion now is which company to use !

After searching a bit I've come across loads, all running very similar courses / expeditions.

Does anyone have any advice as to which is the best ?

Anyone have strong feelings about Adventurepeaks ?

Advice would be much appreciated.

thanks


swayzak
almost sane 27 Sep 2006
In reply to swayzak:
I have never come across adventurepeaks.

If you want training or experience in expeditions to high mountains, I would recommend the followingbased on my experience and the experience of friends whose judgement I trust:
http://www.themountaincompany.co.uk/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1...
http://www.jagged-globe.co.uk/index.html?js=1
http://www.moran-mountain.co.uk/
http://www.andeansummits.com/

Of them all, only Jagged Globe go to Everest. But all four will give you training and experience in that environment.

As to the training schedule they have given you, I am not qualified to comment other than it looks a reasonable progression. I would encourage you to get into the hills in addition to these big trips. Coping with bad conditions in the Scottish winter is a good apprenticeship for the bigger hills.

Enjoy!
luke_brown 27 Sep 2006
woww, that's a lot of advance planning!

I personally would take more of a "one step at a time" approach.

I'd choose a good scottish winter course to start with. There's loads of companies/guides that do this. Once you've done this you'll have a better idea if its for you or not.

Then head out to the alps in the summer and get some experience out there. Again, loads of companies offering beginners courses (I'd recomend icicle or mountainvision but really depends on what/where you want to climb)

At that point you'll know the sort of climbing you enjoy (long easy snow plods, ice climbing, mixed etc) and will be able to select your next objectives based on that.

Half the enjoyment for me is choosing and planning what to do next after a succesful trip.

I'm sure other people will comment on this, but remember that everest is often very crowded, and dangerous due to this. There are other 8000m peaks out there that are more of a technical challenge and less chance of dieing whilst waiting for people in the line in front of you to climb / downclimb
swayzak 27 Sep 2006
In reply to almost sane:

Thankyou - yes, JaggedGlobe was one of those I found.

It's very difficult (especially as a relative novice - although I've done a fair bit a multiday fell walking in the Lakes, with some steep scrambles + decents) to decide who to go with !

Obviously they all say, to some extent, that "they are the best".

Then you get some sites that slag off "professionally led, non-guided" expeditions, saying that it should be guided (one of the NZ companies for instance).

And then there are those that go on the South Col having a better success rate than the North (but being more expensive)..

Ideally I'd like to find one good, safe one and progress with them - makes it less complicated.

Incidently, people often quote the death rate for Everest as around 10 % - it seems that this actually the % of expeditions that suffer a fatality. The death rate for the individual climber seems to be around 1-2 % (in average year)

e.g

http://faculty.washington.edu/hueyrb/pdfs/AAJEverest2003.pdf#search=%22ever...
 KeithW 27 Sep 2006
In reply to swayzak:

I like Adventure Peaks; Dave & Stuart have a good attitude and are always friendly. The winter meets can seem more like a club outing than a commercial company. They get a lot of clients coming back (myself included, for next year) so they are doing something right.

swayzak 27 Sep 2006
In reply to luke_brown:

Thankyou

It's just an outline - I'm well aware that I might progress faster or slower or even grind to a halt when I find I can't actually do it !

"There's loads of companies/guides that do this"

Exactly my problem - don't know who to choose !

Adventurepeaks seem OK (and they have been very successful during their brief time summiting Everest).

As I said, i would like to keep it simple if possible and stick with one company as far as I can (but realise this may not be the best way).

"I'm sure other people will comment on this, but remember that everest is often very crowded, and dangerous due to this. There are other 8000m peaks out there that are more of a technical challenge and less chance of dieing whilst waiting for people in the line in front of you to climb / downclimb"

I realise this is a cliche (and possibly unwise) dream but there is something "special" about Everest, despite the commerciality of it.

Average death rate of 1-2% is not TOO bad is it (see my other post for link) ?
luke_brown 27 Sep 2006
I think my point was that it's nice to have a long term goal, but until you've got a decent amount of experience under your belt I wouldn't ever consider an 8000m peak, nevermind debating which route / what company to do it with etc

Just get out there in the mountains and make sure you enjoy the things you do.
luke_brown 27 Sep 2006

>
> "There's loads of companies/guides that do this"
>
> Exactly my problem - don't know who to choose !
>

I'd say that there is no single best company. Some companies specialise in the alps, some in scotish climbing, some in bigger expeditions.

Jagged globe do everything, and quite well, but they are quite expensive.

For scottish winter I did a course with Pete Hill who was very good (do a good search, he has a website). Also heard good things about the Martin moran courses.
 NicholasH 27 Sep 2006
In reply to swayzak:
Agreed that Jagged Globe have a high price in their brochure but when looking at what is included and excluded by the various companies they are all very competitive, hence I keep on using JG. I’m on their Khumbu Climber expedition next week

I think your time scales are great. I have been following a similar progression though fancy a 8000m peak other than Everest.
Juki 27 Sep 2006
In reply to swayzak:
I haven't done any 8000m peaks so maybe I shouldn't comment...

Anyway, I would try one of the easier 8000m peaks before going for the Everest. G2/Cho oyu would be much more useful than the Aconcagua. Then you would have some idea how your body can handle the really thin air.

And the hill walking fitness is obviously much more important the cycling fitness. So I would do lots of hill walking and lots of easy summer alpine climbing.

And I would skip the 5000m peaks and go straight to 6-7000 meters. After the good alpine season of course.

I have been to Denali and Peru and I've been climbing with people who have done/tried 8000m peaks, Everest including and they say that the Denali is much more useful practice place than Peru (and Bolivia). It's easy to believe because when you are climbing Denali the conditions are quite demanding and you have to spend lots of time in a tent. When you are in Peru you take a taxi to almost 4000 meters, walk to the base camp with the mules, acclimate and summit the peak in few days. After the summit you walk down and take a taxi to the city.
swayzak 27 Sep 2006
In reply to globbits:

What have you done so far then ?

Did you start like me, with a history of hiking / reasonable fitness but no climbing / snow+ice experience ?

swayzak
In reply to swayzak: Ambitious goals are good, but personally I wouldn't fixate on Everest just yet if I were you. See how you're getting on with things in a year or two first!

I've not done it, I hasten to add. Not been even as high as 6000m. And even that hurts!

For what it's worth, I'd like to sound a note of caution.
Please don't take it as trying to put you off. To me your schedule looks reasonably realistic, in that it'll give you a good idea what to expect and give you some of the skills you'll need. But the wisdom I've gleaned at 2nd hand from talking to people who have gone very high (including Everest) is that it's an environment that can easily kill you and not to be treated as a commodity or desirable 'life experience' by those who aren't really qualified to deal with it. The danger of joining a guided party as a relative novice who is basically riding on the back of more experienced guides (and you would still be that even after doing all the prior trips you've listed) is that should the shit hit the fan big time you may well be thrown onto your own resources. So you'd better be sure you're personally up to it! This isn't just a skills and fitness issue, but inviolves the sort of experience, sound judgement and mental strength that most people only build up gradually over years and years of self-guided trips in progressively more serious places (I'm way off it, and I've been doing it for a long time. But perhaps I'm just a soft shandy drinker?). So as I understand it (and this is 2nd hand hearsay remember): Given decent conditions a guided client with the sort of track record you'll ideally have in 4-5yrs time may (or very well may not!) be physically capable of getting up to the top and back down again safely under qualified supervision and with logistical support. Many people do so every year. Others however, die. The issue is when unexpected things go wrong, or the weather really turns. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much money you've paid someone to look out for you, it's going to be down to you to get yourself and maybe others off the mountain safely. Too many big-paying clients simply lack this sound grounding.

I'd say that this far in advance it's hard to know if or when you're really genuinely going to be ready for Everest. If I was ever going to aim at a similar goal (and personally I have little desire to lose that many brain cells when the views from the Cuillin in winter are just as good in their way!) then I'd be concentraing on getting myself fully proficient and self reliant. Do a few courses and even some guided trips to the bigger mountains, sure. But after that if i were in your shoes I'd really want to be concentrating on doing stuff without guides and turning myself into a wily old man of the mountains before turning my attention to Everest or indeed any real biggie.

Someone who knows what they're talking about will probably be along in a minute to tell me that i don't, however!

Good luck with it anyway.
In reply to swayzak: Sorry, I only just noticed the 'professionally led but non-guided' bit.
swayzak 27 Sep 2006
In reply to dan bailey:

Thanks - wise words and taken on board.

I do feel I (in discussion with Adventurepeaks) set myself (what I consider to be) a reasonable / sensible timeframe.

But of course it's all a very long way down the road - so Scotland here I come Feb/Mar 2007 !


In reply to swayzak: Nice one! Once you've climbed up here you won't feel the need to go the the Himalayas anyway. All we lack is hypoxia and crevasses; who needs them? Oh, and dysentry. But then i've not eaten in Ben Fongs in Ft.William for a while.
swayzak 27 Sep 2006
In reply to dan bailey:
> (In reply to swayzak) Sorry, I only just noticed the 'professionally led but non-guided' bit.

I think that means that they would only take me if they feel I was up to it - is this correct ?

 The Bantam 27 Sep 2006
In reply to Juki:

Again, i have little experience in high-altitude stuff (although I'd love to try!), but it seems to me that if you are doing a 5000m peak purely for the altitude experience, then as Juki says, an Alpine trip could be as good - Mont Blanc is a walk but is upto just over 4,800m, allowing you to spend more time on technical skills rather than treking to some where with 200m more. Also saves money for when, after 5 years of training, the monsoon comes early and you can't summit on Everest and have to go back!
In reply to swayzak: Yes, I'd say that's likely what it means
 davek 27 Sep 2006
In reply to swayzak:

" doing stuff without guides and turning myself into a wily old man of the mountains.."

Love that comment, very amusingly put. Good advice though
 adnix 27 Sep 2006
In reply to luke_brown:

> I'm sure other people will comment on this, but remember that everest is often very crowded, and dangerous due to this. There are other 8000m peaks out there that are more of a technical challenge and less chance of dieing whilst waiting for people in the line in front of you to climb / downclimb

According to recent statistics Everest is one of the safest 8000'ers around.

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