UKC

So, the temptaion of the big mountains has finally got too much. Planning a couple of trips over this year and some probably fairly obvious or googleable but I'm asking for first hand experience.

Is it defanitly better to bivvy at the cosmiques shelter to get an early start on the arete/ridge? If so what sort of time does the last up car go approx?
How much is the up/down lift in the cable car? Can you get a return that spans 2 days? <if bivvying>
Any hostel/bunk houses you'd recommend, close to the cable car and some bars?
Anywhere where we can leave a holdall for 24 hours or so? Left luggage type places?
I'm useless at french, will I get by as just another ignorant brit?

Thanks in advance!

In reply to blanchie14c:

Hey Paul.

When are you thinking of going? I'll be heading out in early July and hopefully doing a Conville course, if you fancy doing a route or two give me a shout

In reply to blanchie14c:

Don't know owt about lifts as I don't use them, but you'll easy get by as a brit and if you don't find anywhere to store stuff you can just stash it well in the woods.

Hope you have fun,

Franco

In reply to stewieatb:
Planning a quick hit in May/June to see the lay of the land then got a month free in Sept. I'll shout you sooner than that though if ever this weather settles and you fancy a long route up in T'Lakes

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Are you joking?

No need to bivy because it's a short route.

In May the last cable car leaves at 5pm but be aware that in May the Aiguille du Midi cable car is usually closed for one week because of maintenance works.

Return ticket is about 42 euros and is valid until November.

Don't know that much about hostels or lockers because we always rent an apartment. In May a small apartment is about 175 euros a week.

It's good to remember that the beer is very cheap in a supermarket but very expensive in a bar. Red wine is very cheap in a supermarket and cheap in a bar.

p.s. you can drink tap water in Chamonix. And you can order it free of charge in a restaurant... So if you want to save some money, you should learn this phrase: "Une carafe d’eau s’il vous plaît."

In reply to blanchie14c:


You can bivi at the perroux hut but it might be rammed. Otherwise it's a very nice and expensive stay at the cosmiques. I don't know your experience but you should really be able to make the route from the first cablecar. Last one down variable but usually c. 5pm. First one up can be as early as 0630 but often 0800ish

http://www.compagniedumontblanc.fr/index.php


Yes, just over 50 euro I think. Aller retour.


Loads, vagabond as an example


Vagabond


No drama.

In reply to blanchie14c:


Not necessarily better, depends what else you want to do.
You can do it from the first car up, they run an Alpinist "special" about 6am before the regular timetable starts at 8-9am ish.
You can unofficially bivi in the midi station for a warmer night and stash your gear up there to avoid carrying it up the route. Peolpe satsh stuff near the exit onto the midi plan arete but safer to nip down the ladder where the cosmiques ridge ends and find somewhere there.


Probably about £35-40 now with the crap exchange rate. Its worth stopping up there for a few days to get your moneys worth. The standard return is valid for weeks.


The Vagabond bunkhouse is popular with Brits, is close and has a bar


Probably at the Vagabond or most campsites if you're stopping there. There used to be left luggage at the station but I don't know if its still there. Failing that stash it in the woods.


Yes!

In reply to pec: Forgot to mention, the last car up is about 4pm but don't turn up at 5 to 4 and expect to get on it.

In reply to JR:
all sounding good, thanks guys!
The cosmiques will be midweek so perhaps quieter? There and back in a day would be the plan if midweek is quiet

In reply to blanchie14c:

Chamonix is a very calm place in May. No need to worry about crowds. I'm not sure if the 6am lift works in May. I think it started to ferry climbers up to Midi in June. 7am is probably the first one.

In reply to blanchie14c:

Definitely no need to bivvy for doing the cosmiques aréte. It can be done in a couple of hours leaving from the midi and returning back to it. I've started it after lunch before and managed to get back down to Cham well before the last telecabin and I'm an unfit, fat punter.

In reply to JR: No, why would I be joking? The only place which a lift is essential is the midi, everywhere else round cham just offers a bit of extra fitness training on the walk ins.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

So you use the midi? Misleading statement if so. I agree in some respects, though in winter it's bloody grim if you can't ski down. I hope you've got good knees.

In reply to Franco Cookson:
The OP was specifically asking about the Midi lift...
The Vagabond is the closest gite to the Midi, and they have a lockup where you can stash kit, however, it's not the quietest place to stay, having a bar downstairs, and the cooking facilities are now next to none, so I'm informed.
Gite la Tapia is at the other end of town, but still only a 20 min walk from the Midi, and is cheaper, quiet, clean and with excellent facilities. You can leave your kit there. It's also close to the MBC, with it's home brewed beers.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I prefer to do my fitness training at home. When I'll get to Chamonix I prefer to go climbing and not walking in the forests...

In reply to Franco Cookson:

And if you take that attitude... the midi isn't really that essential. plenty of routes up, albeit not just a walk...

In reply to Juki:

Can you send me the details of the small apartment? I wondering if it could work out not too much more than camping in July/ August

In reply to blanchie14c: The storage boxes at the train station were removed 7 1/2 years ago due to safety reasons.

Many hostels/Gites have drying rooms for boots etc. which also works as storage over the summer period. would recommend to get in touch with one of them and ask them if you can use their room.

I used the drying room at the Vagabond for 10-11 days a few years back and i believe all I paid was my 14 Euros for a bunk bed when I got down from the mountains on day 10.


Morts

In reply to blanchie14c: wouldnt call myself a regular but have always taken a tent and camped, leaving spare stuff in tent has always been fine.

I wouldnt expect a good night sleep wherever you go in the mountains, bivvy or hut theres usually at least someone who doesnt know the rule of leaving your pack outside the sleeping room and not rustling through several carier bags in the middle of the night.

nearly all locals in cham have good english, youll be fine. If you are mainly interested in routes near the cosmique ridge there is/was a good campsite in cham sud, you could walk to the midi.

You may find a lot of snow in may, then again this year isnt turning out that snowy.

If yiur looking for easy routes there are quite a few and at least onevguide with just easy routes, if your interested let me know and ill give youvthe isbn.

Cheers.
Dave

In reply to dave frost:
Yes please, that could prove very useful. Thanks to all for soom great info that is bound to be of help. I'm quite used to bunk house sleeping and lucky that I can sleep virtually anywhere so hut life shouldn't be too hard. I'm thinking that Sept will be my main Alps trip as I've got the month off but I want to go before I start planning a longer stay to see how my head deals with the exposure and the altitude. I may well be a gibbering wreck at 12,000 feet so no point in planning a month there eh!
Should have asked about insurance too, what does everyone else use?

In reply to blanchie14c:

In a similar position to blanchie in that I'm hoping to get out to the alps this year (putting a Conville course app in) and was wondering how most people get out to the alps?

Fly? Drive? Train? What's the cheapest method assuming you're going from say, London?

In reply to mattrm:

I usually go swiss air from london. Got 50kg on at xmas. No extra charge and 110 return

In reply to mattrm:
We are looking at a cheap flight from Manchester travelling very light. For our longer trip we are planning to take the car over <chunnel>, yes the driving will be a pain and then there is the fuel costs but we won't be restricted on luggage and have an emergency bed for the night should we need it. We'd also have the option of re-locating areas without too much drama. Hope you have a gret trip, the planning is part of the fun eh!

In reply to JR: i wonder how many ascents per year the cosmiques would get if the midi wasn't there

In reply to blanchie14c:

Don't forget road tolls (c. 70euro each way)

In reply to Tobias at Home:

Big fat 0

In reply to Tobias at Home:

Few more than Petite Aiguille Verte without a GM cable car

In reply to blanchie14c:


BMC or Snowcard, the latter may be cheaper if you're not a BMC member as you have to join to get their insurance.

By the way, if you want to save money on the (expensive) motorway tolls you can drive down through Belgium, Luxembourg, into Switzerland at Basel and from Martigny over the Col De La Forclaz to Chamonix.
It takes about 3 or 4 hours longer than through France but you can stock up on cheap fuel in Luxembourg, there's a couple of services there but don't blink or you'll miss them.
Strictly speaking you should buy a sticker to drive on Swiss motorways but its only about £20 and I usually don't bother, just don't park by a police car in the sevices!

In reply to JR: I've never been up to the midi as I can't afford the lift. We keep meaning to walk up valle blanche, but never manage it. This year we probably will.

I'm not opposed to lifts, just can't afford them. The sense of achievement is a lot greater when you've walked up yourself and it's only a like 1.5 hours and you're on the plan/ mer de glace anyway.

In reply to liz j:

So what? I helped with the bit of the question I knew about, no need to be so arsey...

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I'd say the sense of achievement is greater when you've got three big routes done in three days, and had a beer in the valley after each one.

Fair play though, if that's how you play...

In reply to JR: Yeh, each to their own. Wish I had money.

In reply to Franco Cookson:
Franco, ask around campsites and hostels - generally if you're hanging around with lots of climbing types you'll come across people about to go home who have bought passes with days they haven't used up.

This summer I think I bought five lift passes with a total of 16 days left on them (admittedly one was given me for free by an absolute hero Jay Jackson with 8 days left on it after he had a disappointing trip) for a grand total of fifty euros. People are happy to get ten or twenty euros back from what they'd otherwise have to discard. If you don't have ten euros to spare to save a two day trip up the Mer de Glace then really it's a miracle you got to Chamonix and you'd be better off in a cheaper part of the Alps.

Having said that, having to factor in two extra days for approaches and descents does add something, if you have the days to spare.

In reply to blanchie14c:

Yeah, however it's turning out to be more expensive than I thought. Hadn't realised how expensive the cable car would be. Still I'm going to get a Conville course application in and if I get a place on a course I'm sure I'll afford it somehow. Looks like flying is going to be the best option however. About 20 euros for a bunkhouse.

In reply to Tdubs:

But you can do Cham on the cheap. A walk up montenvers, then onto Courvecle Hut (hut it or bivi),allow about 5hrs, plenty of time to rest once there etc. This gets you to the Moine, Verte, Droite etc..The Moine isn't really a full day so you could do that one day, rest a bit in the afternoon then Verte the next, depending on experience.

In reply to Tdubs:
cheers, good info here to make those euros go further.
Pec, more money saving tips, ta. The more cash we can save, the longer we can stay.
Franco, I understand where you are at too and credit to you. No doubt the best style of any alpine ascent is to be entirly self sufficent and that includes lifts! I can justify lifts in my mind though, I'm getting older and i'm at that place in life where I can afford these little extras. Good on ya though fella, I know how it is, I've done my time as a bum with my thumb on the side of the road <and it seems I always got wherever I was going faster by thumb 20 years ago than driving myself nowdays>
thanks to all and please continue with any tips you may have, I imagine there are a few Alp virgins getting help off this thread.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

No you dont. Ive heard money makes you weak !

Could be worth learning some basic french/italian climbing phrases.

In reply to blanchie14c:

You're not allowed to bivy at the Midi station but many people still do this, hiding away in the toilets. Personally I would stay at the Cosmiques refuge. The last cabin down from the top station is around 1830hrs, you would be better off going up in the afternoon. A return ticket last summer was 41Eros the return can be used taken any time during the summer months. most of youre other questions can be answered by theses fine people just ask for Siobhan. http://www.snostation.com/

You can find them at the Chamonix Sud which is across from the Midi station and opposite the Monky Bar which sells cheep but most excellent beer, stay of the Elephant beer, its rocket fuel Happy Hour starts at 1630hrs ...Have Fun !

In reply to stewieatb:

Am also there July 19th was thinking of climbing high again.

In reply to bighell: you can bivi on the wooden decking by the other hut, near the base of the ridge, just watch out for the old and allegedly live cable. I've never seen any though.

In reply to mattrm:

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Have done all that back breaking stuff Franco, but you have to spare a thought for us old gits the cable car saves on the unnecessary back breaking stuff.

In reply to summo:

A couple of years ago I came accross two Italian lads they where digging a snow hole the snow hole was about a 5 minute walk to the Cosmiques refuge I thought this was very funny .

In reply to bighell:
Only as daft as us snowholing a hours walk from the Gorms carpark. would have looked funny though when they was having their breakfast and dozens of climbers strolling past them
Looking forward to that beer...

In reply to blanchie14c:

I think they were skint it was a very small hole the Cosmiques is more of a hotel than a refuge and all considering not that expensive and warmer than a snow hole . when are you going? I will be there 19Th July and can be found at the Monky bar .

In reply to bighell:
Mid june, got a week in Skye in May, cosmiques dash mid-june then a month off in sept. I don't think we'll have time to seek out the 'character building' bars other than the night before we fly home but they'd better watch out come sept

In reply to blanchie14c:

Have a great time !

In reply to blanchie14c:

A few observations, based on around 20 seasons in Chamonix over the last 35 years.

Have never been tempted by the Cosmiques Arete. Looks overcrowded, short, one move, not the most aesthetic summit. A poser's climb. Once considered doing it on the way back from the Tacul as a different way of getting to the teleriphique, but there were queues then, so didn't bother. Wouldn't pay 42 Euros to climb it.

I'd go for a lower level summit, with a walk in first to acclimatise, and get a good idea of the geography. The Moine is good for the former, and the Rouges for the latter. Also some wonderful climbs in the Aiguilles, l'M, Charmoz, Grepon, Peigne, Pelerins, where you can be up and down in the day.

Also look at the Argentiere, Chardonnet, Tour Noire. (Aig Tour suffers from overcrowding)

I used to take bivvy gear to bivvy outside huts, but prefer now to stay in huts, it may be noisier, but it is warmer. I can sleep better in huts than on a bivvy. Used to take cooking gear and food to huts, but paper Euros are much cheaper.

There are no cheap bars. Or food. Eat from the supermarket.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

lifts are great, they take you from the valley right up to the mountains. You should give them a whirl.

In reply to Fredt:

Elitism is a form of posturing as well.

In reply to Franco Cookson: You could walk up from the valley via the Vallee Blanche.

In reply to Franco Cookson: I have skinned up the Vallee Blanche and then my friend went on to the Mont Blanc. It is actually very pleasant.