UKC

Is it a sensible idea? My youngest daughter climbs well and has a lot of confidence in her ability (and perhaps a bit too much in mine!). I was considering taking her to the Alps in about five years, when she will be 16 and I will be 50(gulp!). However, I was talking to a lad this weekend who is being taken out to the Alps by his Mum this summer, he is 11, but seems to have done a lot of stuff in the UK, and he did make short work of the climb and abseil on Scout Camp, which is where I met him.

Any thoughts/views? Anyone know if there are any organised groups that go out the Alps with kids that we might join up with?

In reply to BigHairyIan:
I once saw a father and a very young (&confident) son coming down the Midi Arete (Chamonix) and heading off to climb…If you wanted to do Alpine and are confident then you could take her on Facile routes that take say 3/4hours with a safe ascent/decent?..Or even mid mountain treks?

With regards to rock…Do you climb outside with her in the UK? If yes then there is a huge selection of rock climbing at safe/interesting places with single/multi pitch at a range of grades. I can only speak for Chamonix area but at the local crags you see tiny climbers (3/4 years old)…and Via Ferrata is something you could definitely do with an 11 year old.

I know for a fact that my father who is my main Alpine partner still sometimes feels more aware of objective danger when climbing with me and I’m 26(!) and I suppose that just comes with being a parent.

It’s a wonderful way to bond – I went on my first trip to Chamonix with my dad 3 year ago and it’s amazing to share these experiences.

If you do go - Have fun and don't forget check the weather everyday as it's not been so good this year!

Katie

In reply to BigHairyIan:

Find out more about youngsters going to altitude before you go up anything particularly high. My understanding is that it can be dangerous for children. Acclimatisation is very fickle and unless you are aware of how it can affect your daughter neither of you may be aware if she is in danger.

If you are thinking of walking or lower rock climbing there should be lots for you both to do.
Have a good time.

In reply to Knitting Norah: Thanks for that. Apart from knowing that altitude affects people, I had not considered how it differs for children.

Hi I do a lot of climbing with my daughter she is 12 she climbs well and we climb a lot of multi pitch. She climbs to e1. I would not think twice about taking her, she would be upset if I didn't. Think u would be fine you know how she climbs

You might find the following link helpful:

http://www.ismmed.org/ISMM_Children_at_Altitude.htm

In particular it says 'The incidence of AMS in children seems to be the same as that observed in adults'.

I took my boys (aged 6 and 9 at the time) to 3800m last summer and they ran around as happily as ever.

In reply to BigHairyIan:


might be worth taking a look at this - very good.

http://www.decitre.fr/livres/L-APPRENTI-ALPINISTE.aspx/9782012916623


And the Alps are a wonderful environment for children even without reaching the peaks

In reply to wercat: try the ecrins, loads of kid friendly crags and via ferratas. Mine got some altitude last year at 9 and 11. a few tears with sudden headache, cured quickly with water. We just single pitch, there are so many crags to choose from!

In reply to BigHairyIan:


Do it. If they like mountains, they'll love the Alps.

I remember when I was going up the voie normale (sorry, Normalweg) on the Rimpfischhorn, and feeling a little nervous because it only my second 4000er. We were just about to set off up the big snow gully (you know the one I mean if you've been there) when a dad and two sons, probably 12 and 10, came romping down it. They were clearly having the time of their lives. And their presence there made me think "In some ways it's just like being on Bowfell on a sunny day in winter, really..." The fact that they could do it made me a lot less doubtful about whether I could do it.

It also made me think "You lucky little sods, I wish my dad had taken me to the Alps at your age."

In reply to wercat:

Have to agree that the Alps are a wonderful environment for children. It is always good to see all the families out walking and climbing. The system of refuges also means it is often possible to get a snack or a meal at a reasonable price in a beautiful location although it would be unwise not to carry your own food and water too. In fact carrying lots of snacks and drinks is the order of the day with children.

We once met a man leading his blind mother from the Albert Premiere Hut. She loved it and he was so dedicated and considerate with her. He made her dream come true. She had been and still was a keen walker but needed help to continue.

The fact that several teleferiques and ski lifts are open in the summer also means that walks and climbs in higher areas can be accessed with children without the long walk up and down and still be at a height where problems are unlikely.

I would encourage anyone to go but just be aware of things like how you cope if your chilld becomes tired or ill. I love the Alps and want to share them with everyone, I feel the same about the Lake District and sometimes wonder if we could make the mountains more accessible here by introducing some of the things from the Alps but that's a whole other debate.

In reply to BigHairyIan: Don't forget the glaciers. I doubt that an 11 year old could hold an adult if the adult fell down a crevasse.

Al

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:
The Maurienne is perfect as an intro - big mountains and glaciers close at hand. Lots of exciting things to do - via ferrata, mountain biking roller blading at the French National biathlon summer training camp.... even crazy golf!
Check this out, a review from UKC:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3793
It really is a great place for families/young people, lots of French scouts there trekking from hut to hut too, if the French choose it it must be good! Great food and a lot of refuges.
The altitude is a little less too, most summits are between 2500m and 3300m.

In reply to BigHairyIan:

I did my first alpine route (Cosmiques Arete on the Midi) with my Dad when I was 11 and had the time of my life. I was already a keen climber and the experience cemented my love for the mountains even more.

I still remember seeing the view from the exit from the Midi top station for the first time. It takes my breath away every time, but nothing beats that very first glimpse.

If you're confident looking after them, then why not? And I'd have thought a guide would be happy to work with you?

In reply to BigHairyIan:

My little sister did her first alpine-style routes when she was 10. As long as the routes are well-chosen, and the objective dangers are well controlled (i.e. avoid routes with stonefall etc.) then it should be ok. Obviously we treated her like a british guide would treat a client - always on a tight rope and never assuming anything.

In reply to BigHairyIan: I'm guiding two girls this week in Chamonix, aged 11 and 14. We're not doing anything too long, tiring, or technical. I think it's great that their parents are so keen for them to have an adventure in their summer holiday.

In reply to BigHairyIan:

I was talking to a girl who was the youngest to do My Cook in NZ. She went with her Dad( a guide) and another person as well in case of an emergency and It is an awesome experience and treasured memory.

She is A tall and athletic Girl though, and they were regularly out on trips in the mountains. At 16 she should be strong enough but remember the days are super long so you will need to be hiking and stuff for endurance beforehand.

My Dad took us over mountain passes while tramping from about 8Yrs on ,but we could only do over about 5/6 hours walking once we were about 13.

In reply to BigHairyIan:

I did Gran Paradiso with my Dad when I was 10. It was a fantastic experience that we will both never forget. I think the slow speed that we went up at due to my size really helped with the altitude. We climbed it again, but ascended much quicker, when I was 13 and I felt really sick.

Al makes a good point though about cravasses and the weight difference. Looking back it was a little more risky than we probably both thought at the time.

In reply to BigHairyIan:

There have been other threads on this subject and I remember that there are some issues concerning altitude and brain development but I think with younger children.... Might be worth checking with a doctor who knows the subject though - in the Alps perhaps as I doubt many British doctors would know.

Assuming this is ok there remains the question of responsibility. I've seen, and spoken to, a father and son team who were in this situation and they had done some good climbs, the year before the normal route on the Dent du Géant and the time I met them they were heading towards the Rochefort Ridge. They were both happy with it, the father was very proud too but he admitted that for him there was no question of even a minor fall as his son would have difficulty holding him. We met them on the way up and the son was tastefully depositing his breakfast on the snow... he didn't look so happy then.

The question for me is who is doing what for who... is the child really keen or doing to please his Dad, and is his Dad doing it for the kid or for himself? I have taken mine walking in the mountains but never actually climbing, I don't encourage them to climb, but asked them if they wanted to come bouldering if they felt like it. I am very wary of introducing people to mountaineering as I've had a few too many experiences of the worse than can happen. Personally I think taking up climbing should be lucid decision by someone in a position to make such a choice - I'm not convinced a child is in such a situation. Think of how you'll feel if the worse came to be.

Sorry to be so maudlin, it may be something I ate