UKC

I know crosses and cairns are common sights on mountain summits, but...
Does anyone know which mountains have got Madonnas placed on their summits?

Quite by chance, I encountered two Madonnas on a quick alps trip last month - the Aiguille Noire and Gran Paradiso*.

Are there many others out there? I know about the Grepon and the Dent de Geant. I'm yet to make it up the Grand Dru, but think there might be one there. Any others? And there's a statue of St. Bernard near the top of the Matterhorn - so that doesn't count.

There might be loads, with Catholics shoving them on any pointy bit of rock, but I just haven't come across that many.

cheers, Tony

(*I know the Madonna on the Paradiso isn't on the true summit)

In reply to TonyM:

I'm pretty sure there's one on top of Monte Viso, and suspect there are dozens on summits in the Italian Dolomites.

In reply to TonyM: A few years ago the one on the GP was refurbished. There was a notice at the bottom telling people not to worry when they found her missing, she was going to be put back in a few weeks!

In reply to TonyM:

There is one on top of Naranjo de Bulnes, Picos de Europa, Spain.

In reply to TonyM:

I don't think there are that many in the Mont Blanc massif, maybe six or so... I saw an article just recently on this very subject but can't remember where (or how many there were). I'm sure I know someone who does know...!

In reply to TonyM:

Not actually on a summit, but Heaval (1,260ft peak of Barra) has 'Our Lady, Star of the Sea' on its SE ridge.

In reply to MG:

On one occasion I arrived on top of the GP and put a clove hitch around her neck - and pulled it tight. I was then berated by a very devout catholic lady, which, I'm sad to say made me tighten it further.

In reply to JTM:
>I'm sure I know someone who does know...!

Yes, we need a certain valdostano with an encyclopaedic memory...
Do say if the whereabouts of the article comes to you.
cheers, Tony

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Check. Madonna complete with son on Monte Viso...

http://www.ii.uib.no/~petter/mountains/3000mtn/E09/6409_summit.jpg

In reply to TonyM:

Ah, thanks, I suspected as much, but didn't expect sonny boy to be there as well.

In reply to TonyM:

Billions. In fact, the right question should seriously be:

"Which Italian mountains DON'T have Madonnas on their summits?"

The ubiquity of religious simbols on the Italian mountains has recently become an issue in some quarter, as in the last 30 years crosses, madonnas etc have been put on summits on a sort of mass basis, and very often not by the people traditionally entitled on doing this sort of things - the local community / villagers etc, but by private or external groups (very often scouts or similar), and very often with motivations like "well, there was nothing on the summit".

Madonnas on the Drus, Aiguille du Geant or Aiguille Noire have a specific meaning, as these three are "magical" mountains with some serious religious folklore background. Others (like the "Regina Pacis" on the summit of the Chetif) have some kind of meaning related to historical events - in this case Courmayeur escape form the worst ravages of WWII. This said, a lot of have been put in the last few years "just in case", and not everyone here is happy with this. By the way, Luca Maspes put - as a sort of protest - a statue of Buddah on the summit of Piz Badile (a lot of people got upset...)

The oldest of the lot - the Madonna of Roccialemone (3454m) - the original statue was put there in 1353 (history first mountain climb with a precisely established date)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Madonna_Rocciamelo...
(it's a big statue, almost 3m tall)

My favourite mountain Madonna - the Madonna of Rocca Sella (1504m), watching over the entrance of Susa Valley, and one of the best mountain view of the Alps. This spot makes for a great afternoon hike (or a night trip, particularly in winter, if there's not too much ice)

http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/543523.jpg

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
If there are too many Madonnas around, Monte Viso might have to be classed as ineligible, since it has everything, including a whopping great iron cross. Rather than having a foot in every camp, maybe only one religious icon per summit ought to be allowed! And it's not really a proper frestanding statue - more a plaque...

In reply to TonyM:

I'm really in favour of no such effigies or idols on summits at all, but if there are going to be such, I would favour the 'multi-faith' approach rather than the single religion one.

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Ahh, Luca - brilliant, as always! Fascinating information. So if they're all over mountains within Italy, are they still a relative rarity beyond Italy?

So far I've got the Drus (France), Grepon (France) and Geant (France/Italy) in the Mt Blanc massif. And El Naranjo (Spain) in the Picos de Europa. Plenty of Catholics around?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Agree. Nothing more multi-faith than the humble cairn...

In reply to TonyM:
>> Do say if the whereabouts of the article comes to you.

I thought it was a MONTAGNE mag (though not sure) but can't find it. It was referring to the MB massif, but have a feeling (again not sure) that it pushed the boundaries down into the GP... and six is the figure that comes to mind.

In reply to TonyM:

Could it have been Drus, Noire, Geant, Grepon, Dolent, Tour Ronde?

In reply to TonyM:
There are several Madonnas around the Vanoise - enough of them that it isn't particularly noteworthy to arrive at a top and find one. With advancing age I can't remember exactly where I've seen them, except that I have an old slide of a relatively modest bronze Madonna statuette on the Pointe de la Rechasse above the Col de la Vanoise.

In reply to TonyM:

The great thing about crosses, crucifixes, madonnas etc. on summits, which is most reassuring - as Jon has said above - is that they'll typically provide a superb bomb-proof thread belay.

In reply to JTM:
Reckon you're right.

Dolent - looks like it - http://www.summitpost.org/image/124798/151018/the-summit.html

Tour Ronde - definitely -http://www.summitpost.org/image/201188/150209/tour-ronde.html

So with the other four, that makes quite a good set. Not exactly up there with the six classic North faces or the seven summits, but a nice little pilgrimage tour. Something I now feel an urge to complete!

cheers, Tony

In reply to TonyM:

There are actually few more "summit madonnas" in the MB group, but the "real deal" are only four

Grepon
Drus
Dent du Geant
Noire

Tour Ronde was put there by the Italian Alpine Club in 1971 (?). Dolent is even more recent.

If you're hunting strange locations/signpoints in the MB area, there's a lot more than you could ever suspect (including Alps highest mine entrance, the trigonometric points used to build the tunnel, etc)

In reply to Luca Signorelli:
(including Alps highest mine entrance, the trigonometric points used to build the tunnel, etc)

There's actually one doing just that on the way up to the Bertol from Arolla.

In reply to TonyM:
Who's the Daddy!!
http://tinyurl.com/muylgp
P

In reply to JTM: Ah the Blue Bertol Madonna. There's one the Pointe de Mourti.
Aren't there 2 on the Grand Paradiso, 1 on each top?

In reply to graham F:

No, pretty sure not. TonyM Had a good series of pics of the whole of the ridge coming from the North - of which he seems to have deleted all but the best one - only one Madonna. MG noted in his post, the replacement of the Madonna a few years ago... I thought that it'd be a pretty quick job, but in fact now I remember seeing a series of photos in Hotel Genzianella at Pont of the statue being CARRIED up there by a long relay of people. Having another one wouldn't be a bad idea as it might prevent the ludicrous queuing I've nearly always encountered up there - unless people felt obliged to visit both, of course...

The incident I referred to with the clove hitch around the statue's neck was amusing. I had two clients, one Italian and one English, who were both Latin scholars/professors. On the way up from Chabod I happened to mention that Latin had been given a whole new lease of life what with the new pope insisting that mass be conducted in Latin. This triggered an anti religion - and particularly catholic - tirade which lasted much of the ascent and kept me amused for ages. The clove hitch was for him!

There's a Madonna (I think, Luca can confirm) on top of the Ruitor, which I've visited a number of times - though never under my own steam!!!

Excellent information from everyone. So, to summarise so far, there are countless Madonnas in Italy, some in the Vanoise, at least half a dozen in the Mt Blanc area, a few known in Switzerland, and some oddities scattered around, like El Naranjo.

Definitely only one Madonna on GP. Full set of photos Jon mentioned are here: http://picasaweb.google.com/ukclimber/GranParadisoNWFace#

What I hadn't realised was that these weren't all old, established locations. With a renaissance in putting these statues on peaks, it would be a never ending mission to be a "Madonna bagger". So maybe, Madonnas aren't the best focus for an fun alpine esoterica challenge.

This nod to the obscure is something that is sadly missing from alpine guidebooks. But a knowledge gap that Luca could plug perfectly.

cheers, Tony

In reply to TonyM: Grand Paradiso has a madonna summit its on my pictures or my climbing partners profile page wills on ukc.

In reply to JTM: Aha, just looked at my own pics from Paradiso North face last summer, and there are definitely 2 Madonnas. A small one on the north top, a big one on the south top.

In reply to TonyM:

I'm fairly sure I passed a Madonna on the way to the summit of Pollux a few years back. Was most disappointed when I saw that I still had further to go to the top.

In reply to graham F:

Well spotted Wilson! I've been to the rocky top just beyond the Madonna - coming from the normal route - assuming that was the real top, but never any further. Never done the N face - those sort of things have never appealed, though the route that goes out left of the N face, then comes up the ridge looks good.

In reply to graham F:
My sincere apologies. You're dead right. I can see both Madonnas in my photos too. But I can't for the life of me remember walking past the smaller one though! Humble pie for me tonight...

In reply to TonyM:

The smaller one is a very recent addition, as someone decided that the "true" summit of GP should have a Madonna as the "traditional" summit (the one with the more famous and bigger statue). Very few people climb to the "true" Gran Paradiso (the 4061m spike) as it takes a bit from the traditional summit.


Of course, the "traditional" summit statue is considered locally the real deal, not the topographic summit!

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

How long has it been there?

In reply to TonyM:

Which photo is it on?

In reply to TonyM:

Ah yes. So I have been to the top then! It wasn't there when I was! Thanks.

In reply to TonyM: One on the Grande Fache in the Pyrenees, took me by supprise a little.

In reply to JTM:

The "classic" Madonna (the one everyone knows) was put there in 1954, the whole thing organized by a priest of the Piemontese side, don Pierino Balma Marchis (he was a village priest in Valsona). Don Pierino was a keen climber - climbing priests are a very common feature of Piemontese and Aostan mountains. He climbed something like 120 times the Rosa dei Banchi and 70 times the Torre di Lavina (I really love the Lavina, but I know people who wouldn't touch it again after having climbed it once). The GP Madonna was his ambition, basically because he wanted to celebrate the mass on the summit to honour "his" Madonna - which he did, July 4 1954, on appalling weather. He was also the organizer of a local rescue team. He died at 94 in 2003.

The "new" Madonna is much more recent - I believe it's there since less than 5 years.

In reply to JTM:


Carryng the statue on your back all the way to the summit is a relatively common event for "real" summit madonnas (we're speaking of those in some way related to popular local religious beliefs, not those put in the last 50 years.

This said, no event of this type may even slightly rival the Madonna del Rocciamelone festival on August 5 (remember, the Rocciamelone Holy Virgin is world oldest summit Madonna - the original was put there in 1353). The festival involves walking all the way from Mompantero - Susa (503m) to the summit of Rocciamelone (3538m) - bringing the original middle age gold tryptich along with you.

This picture may give you an idea of the height gain involved.

http://www.archivoltogallery.com/photogallery/montagne/rocciamelone/Rocciam...

(the starting point is Monpantero)

The great thing about this "processione" (besides the fact that there are often very old ladies - in their seventies! - doing the whole thing without much effort) is that is one of the great chances available on this world to see, in little more than 7 hours, all the types of terrain typical of temperate zones. In other world - you start here:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mompantero.JPG

and after seven hours of putting one feet in front of the other you're magically here:

http://www.lafiocavenmola.it/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10001/Album3462/...

(with a bit less snow)


Let me guess - the most anti-catholic of the two was the Italian, wasn't he?


Yep. But that's not one of the "classic" Madonnas - was put there in 1958 by a political organization. However, the Rutor area has many interesting legends with a religious slant, including the story of one visit of the Wandering Jew....

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Actually the anti catholic was the English man. The other was a woman from Florence!

The biggest Madonna of the whole Aosta Valley must be the one on Monte Zerbion... who carried that up there?!

I think Tony's picture is very foreshortened and that 'madonna' could well be 50m away, no? Is it the rock after the little breche just after THE madonna's tower?

In reply to JTM:
I'm pretty sure that photo does show the other small Madonna. It's a zoomed in piece of a photo of the whole summit ridge. Taken at the N end of the summit ridge and several hundred metres back from the little breche. So very foreshortened, and that statue is on the main ridge, whereas the people beyond are on the separate Madonna tower. We passed to the R of the little statue, before cutting down L towards the breche and the short exposed traverse on the E side.

In reply to TonyM:
Balmenhorn has a Statue of Christ.... (alright it might not be a proper summit & it's not a Madonna)

Monte Moro Pass has a huge Madonna on the little bump in the middle.

In reply to TonyM: as a slight hijack, what is the story behind the nazi jesus at merlet?

In reply to Tobias at Home:

Do you mean the 'Christ Roi' at le Coupeau? No idea.

In reply to JTM:

that's the one. i wasn't sure if he was in merlet or coupeau. he is rather incongruous though - i guess that really i should go up there and find out for myself.

In reply to Tobias at Home:

Nazi?

Off up to the Perrons now. You'd like the Perrons...

In reply to graham F:

Yes, a nice hybrid Madonna/monkey
http://www.tsayetta.ch/images/mourti2gd.jpg

In reply to TonyM:


The Madonna is actually on the Petit Dru.

In reply to TonyM:

La bola del mundo in Sierra Guadarrama Spain has a bronze statue of a madonna with a pair of skis on he back. It's not quite at the summit but it's at the top of the ski lift. I've got a photo of it somewhere i will post it up if i can find it.

In reply to JTM:

He has his arm raised in a kind of Nazi salute.

In reply to Mick's Daughter:

Though Tobias meant they built it. The Perrons were great... not a soul about. Not even a madonna on the top.

In reply to JTM:

I've little knowledge of the history of Zerbion area, but I remember (something my father told me) that the Zerbion madonna is one of the "Great War Madonnas", which were built in the late 20's and early 30's as mementoes for the casualties of WWI. I believe the Zerbion statue was put in place by alpine troops.

First World War was horribly costly for Italian mountain communities, in a ratio completely disproportioned to the rest of the country. Next time you're in any tiny village in Italy (particularly those truly small), go on the main church square and look for the mandatory "Monumento ai Caduti" - check the list of the names under "War 15-18" against those listed as casualties of WWII (1940-1945). The ratio is almost invariably 3 or 4 to 1. If you sum the military casualties of the two wars, plus the civilan victims of the 1943-1945 guerrilla, plus the mass migration in the '50's and 60's, it's easy to understand some of the causes of mass depopulation of the Alps, which in some area (like SW alps) has been around 60% of the total between 1900 and 1970.



The smaller madonna is on the 4061m tower, which is locate 30m (ok, the distance here is really based on my memory) NORTH of of the "traditional" Madonna. People coming from the NW face has to traverse it to reach the normal route. So yes, it may be the one seen in Tony's picture.

In reply to Tobias at Home:

My vote for the strangest mountain monument - is not a Madonna, but one may wonder if a Madonna wasn't better:

The summit "pole" on Pt. Sourela, an otherwyse delightful hiking summit not far away from Turin (particularly popular with snowshoes). The meaning of the "sculpture" is completely baffling - one theory is that was intended as a protest against Winter Olympics 2006, but I suspect is really something celebrating bad iron welding!

In reply to Luca Signorelli:


There are hundreds in the dolomites and the number is currently growing due to the work of a "certain person", once one of the strongest climbers in Val di Sarca who, following a personal tragedy, has assumed the mission of placing them everywhere. This person's rucksack is often unbelievably heavy - it seems the suffering of carying them up is part of the "process".

In reply to Luca Signorelli:


At the summit of Federation Peak in South West Tasmania ( see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_Peak ) I was amused to find a garden gnome.

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Forgot to link the picture

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Il_segnale_metallico_sul...

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

I've a vague feeling I've already heard this story - wasn't the guy someone who even wrote or co-wrote a guidebook? (I may be wrong here)

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

>wasn't the guy someone who even wrote or co-wrote a guidebook?

Yes, that's the one.
The tragedy was very real, and all due respects - but personally I agree with Messner on this one, we should ban any new "monuments" from mountain peaks.