UKC

Stuck this in the gear section as its gear but camping gear not climbing gear? That many forum sub headings these days!

So, for weekend camping trips we manage on a cool box with a couple of ice packs. We normally camp 2 nights most weekends throughout the summer and food usually is a BBQ for the first night and then eat out next night. We have the BBQ first night as the meat will go off once the ice packs defrost and that system does lack a bit of flexibility. I'm thinking of buying a 12v coolbox, who uses one and what are your views on them? is it a case of running the car for 20 mins or so with it plugged in to chill stuff down for the day or do they have to be plugged in for longer? I plan to have it plugged in when ever we drive the car anyway but what about if not moving around much?
While on the 12v subject, anyone ever use an inverter? I have one and have charged nintendo ds and phone but thats really the only use its ever had, will it power a laptop charger to top up the laptop battery so we can watch movies etc?

In reply to blanchie14c:

Not used a 12V coolbox.

Inverter: depends on the power rating. A 300W or higher inverter should be fine for a laptop. A lower one may be OK but not sure.

In reply to knthrak1982:

... on further research, charging a laptop battery really doesn't require so much power.

http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian/misc/how_much_electricity.htm

In reply to blanchie14c:

We had one that ran on the cigarette lighter socket (not sure if that's 12V?)

It was very poor - thermoelectric really couldn't do the job as well as a normal compression-cycle 'fridge

HTH

In reply to JJL:
that was my fear too, simply not enough power for 12v to make it work well. I've have had further ideas since thinking about this though. I'm going to freeze as much food as possible before setting off and as my bacon, burgers, milk etc is frozen, that'll buy me an extra 12hours easy as long as the lid isn't removed too often. Also, If I visit the local shop to the campsite just before they close and politely ask if I can pop my ice packs in the shop freezer then pick them up next morning when they open. Would even pay a couple of quid. Worset can happen is that they say no.
Going to check my inverter when I get home, I've a feeling its 350w.

In reply to blanchie14c:
I have a 12v coolbox, it's rubbish unless it is left on permanently, and takes an hour ish to catch up after opening. It also draws 5 amps, so could potentially discharge a small car battery overnight.
I also have a 150w inverter which charges/runs my laptop fine, most laptop power supplies are around 90w ish..

In reply to blanchie14c: we had one for our car, and yes, it will flatten the battery too much to crank the engine quite easily - the alarm system didn't like low voltage either! It kept things cool but didn't have the oompf to chill them down in the first place.
Did a 4 day hike with some south africans in SA and they had meat for 4 of them for each day. It was vacuum sealed and frozen then put together and wrapped in newspaper. Each day the meat on the outside of the package had defrosted enough to cook. Minimising surface area compared to volume is the way forward and good insulation is your friend - wrap the box in jumpers etc.

In reply to blanchie14c:

Inverters are a bit complicated.

They have to try to imitate the sine-wave curve of 'true' AC (from an AC generator) using capacitors and diodes. To do it really, really well they have to be very, very good, and cost a fortune. Reasonably priced ones do a reasonable job, but some gear won't run on them.

Anything that is electronically very simple will run. So, an air pump for example. A CRT TV might work. A flatscreen (LCD/LED/Plasma) TV wouldn't, as the electronics are vastly more complicated.

However, if the appliance you're plugging into it converts the current back to DC almost immediately, it doesn't matter. So, a Nintendo DS charger or other phone/handheld console charger will work fine, as they all have transformers inbuilt.

We have one to run airbed pumps on for car-camping, and occasionally my sister's DAB radio in the car (has an AC>DC transformer, we use it because the car radio is shagged and we can't replace it).

In reply to stewieatb:

With knowledge-run now completed:

Yes, a laptop charger usually draws about 50-70W, so the power's well within the limits if it's a 300W inverter. And as it will have an AC>DC transformer in the charger wire, the conversion problems aren't an issue.

In reply to blanchie14c:

What makes you think meat will go off in 2 days especially if you have it in an icebox at first?

In reply to Removed User:
By leaving bacon and sausage in a coolboxbox with no ice packs for 2 days in warm weather. Maybe they wasn't 'off' but they didn't smell right to me - and I eat anything!
Sounds like planning in the first place is the answer, freezing stuff rather than stuff just chilled. Lining the box with cardboard has been suggested and by planning I guess we can gaffa tape the lid down to seal it properly, should do 24 hours eh? going to experiment with some froven items over the next few days I think.
Laptop stuff is good though, cheers Tom, watched a couple of episodes of green wing the other night in the tent but the lappy had ran out of power for another nights viewing, will chuck in the inverter now

In reply to blanchie14c: Used one last summer for a roadtrip to Portugal - very useful, but yes, it's best to keep it going all the time (noisy). We plugged it in to the mains at campsites, and left it off for overnight roadside stops. Kept the beer cool.

In reply to blanchie14c: Ive gone way too deep into the fridge freezer thing and got properly carried away reading the fridge versions of Mac vs PC which in camping fridges is Waeco versus Engel.
These are compressor fridges running off of 12v with very low power consumption and the ability to achieve proper cold temperatures despite high ambient temps.
Unfortunately these can run to silly money but having done all that business of watching everything melt and cook in summer tents, since we have the vehicle I've bitten the bullet and bought a (giant) Waeco fridge. It should mean less time hunting out shops and more time doing what we went away for.

In reply to blanchie14c:

Cheap coolbox;

Container, can be billycan or coolbox covered with wet cloth. End of cloth in in another container with water in. Evaporation keeps it cool.

Try it tonight with a block of butter in and a thermometer if you have one to see how much it drops the temperature.

Used this method many times with washing up bowl at campsites and stopped butter melting and milk going sour.

In reply to sutty:
Ah, is this similar to leaving the houseplants on the drainer, on a towel with the other end of said towel in the sink with water?....
Sounds interesting. don't want to go the whole hog and get 3phase fridges etc, room is a primium anyway and we only get out for 2 or 3 nights at a time.
Had to throw some lamb and some king pawns away on Sat night, ok only 2 or 3 quid but do it every time and it adds up eh, need to plan better.

In reply to blanchie14c:
I use a cigarette lighter fridge to keep my vaccines and other drugs cool, though I've not used it for food. (I should point out I'm a vet not a hardened addict at this point...)
I find mine works well, and seems to keep cool for quite a long time if you don't open it. I do drive about a lot though, at least 100miles a day in frequent shortish bursts so perhaps that helps.
A couple of things though...
1. make sure your car automatically switches off power to the 12v outlets when the ignition is switched off, as not all cars do. If not you will get a flat battery!
2. If you have a one of these fridges that also heats food, just make sure you don't accidentally hit the 'hot' button. That one was an expensive mistake...

In reply to blanchie14c:

12v ones are not that great

Get a camping gas powered fridge. Brilliant - they last about two weeks on a full cylinder and can even generate ice in the heats of the Alps.

We have one that can runs of mains, car, or gas. Turn on to cool before loading. Load up, transport to camp site, attach gas, and away you go.

In reply to Catherine Speakman:
sounds like you're use of it is perfect, 100 miles a day and that. Its just not achivable with car camping I guess. This W/E for example we were in the Peak with the bikes, apart from arriving and leaving the only car use was a daily nip to the shops in Ashborne <10 miles away> and the cost of running the engine for 30 mins for the box to get cold, well, may as well use that fuel and go and buy fresh food instead. Truble is, I like to eat well when car camping and make a feast every day! I don't mind roughing it when climbing, dried food on bivvys is no problem but I need to ensure mrs B enjoys it as much as I do as she's a fairly new camper and the last thing I want to do is put her off it.
Its seems better planning on my part is required to get the most out of a standard coolbox.

In reply to PaleMan:
Have been reading up on these, they called 3 phase or 3 stage or some such? If I saw a compact one at the right price I could be tempted. I have a 907 cylinder for the cooker so thats no prob, could even get a tee peice. Know a mate who has a 907 too so could borrow his as well....
Whats you looking at SH? and size wise? <no ebay here at work!> Bigger than a cool box I'd imagine...

In reply to blanchie14c:

My 12v coolbox offer a generous hot +10C or cold -10C against ambient.

It's OK but there can be better solutions, like the ice pack idea, don't forget to label them or you'll loss them in the freezer.

I was in perpignan once and the nearest shop happened to be a lidl, I bought bread and marge daily plus a pack of cheap frozen vegetables to keep beer + marge cool in a bucket of water, worked well in 35C.

If you're going to use an inverter it may be worth investing in a leisure battery that does the cyclic thing much better than a high oomph car battery, also you don't risk running the car out of juice. Mine's 150W does the laptop, which means dvds and tv for the kids. Bear in mind the loss going to 240v so it's not a one to one translation (important if you're trying to work out how long an 80AH battery will last).

Trying to charge stuff off the car is tricky as generally when you go away you don't do loads of miles to keep charging.

In reply to Catherine Speakman:

I didn't realise the two were mutually exclusive, have you tried horse tranquilisers?

In reply to winhill:
I get an hour and half from the laptop battery, I play films off a usb stick - saves on hhd and dvd drive from using all the battery power, a quick top up while driving the car should do it I recon, another battery may or may not be the answer, I take too much shit as it is!

In reply to blanchie14c: I tend to just to use as many ice blocks as you can fit in, manage to get 3 days with the milk still being cold, freeze stuff your going to eat on the second or third day like your bangers or a curry, helps to make sure that everything is chilled before it goes in and keep it out of the warm car or sunlight when you can, often place mine in the stream to keep it cool to. I have a mate has a 12v volt one, flattened the battery on his car after 24 hours.

In reply to blanchie14c:

I use one that plugs in to the cigarette lighter or 12v outlet in the car boot. It works well if everything is cold when it goes in e.g. cold beers, freeze the milk and add some ice packs. Think what you want to take out each time before opening to minimize the time it's open. Used like this the milk is still properly cold after 3 days in summer doing a few miles each day.

The one we have has a cut out so it won't run the battery flat. It's better than a standard cool box but not a fridge. As someone else said you need to be careful not to accidentally set it hot rather than cold, I've taped over the switch now!

In reply to blanchie14c:

Google "pot in pot" cooler, two clay plant pots, sand and water and it cools contents!!!

In reply to stewieatb:


Hmmm you're on the right lines but not quite there. You're more likely to have issues with a CRT TV than a flatscreen - LCD flatscreens will almost exclusively have a switch-mode PSU built-in or separate anyway and the first thing they do is rectify and smooth the mains input to DC.

The main problem with cheaper modified-sine inverters is the ability to cope with an inductive load such as flourescent tubes or starting a large motor.

In reply to blanchie14c:
We have a 12v + mains fridge, was going to get a 3 way but didnt like the ones on offer, and didnt fancy camping with it on the gas in the tent.

We generally only camp fri to sunday so we got a small lesiure battery to run it off.

I am a little annoyed with myself for not doing the math on the amps etc as the battery only lasted 1 day. boo.

My other half tells me you can trickle charge the battery from a solar panel, but will only buy you about 50% battery if you have the best light all day.

So i wish now i had bought the 3 way to have the flexibility of gas.

I would recommend however to chill the fridge before you set off, so it doesnt have to work too hard. and also get a lighter extension so you can run it from the car when you are travelling.

In reply to All

Yes that is me with the highest bid on the 3-way box on that popular auction site!
<Converted due to interesting views on this thread! Thanks again>

In reply to blanchie14c:

Check the external dimensions, they're huge! You'll need a trailer next, then you'll think might as well get a trailer tent and have some real comfort, then you'll think - sod it, lets hitch up the caravan love, they're filming the antiques roadshow in Ripon this week.

In reply to blanchie14c: The three way absorption type fridges must be kept perfectly level or they won't work plus they are only able to chill by a certain range of degrees so in baking hot weather you can still find that stuff is going off. How do I know this?

In reply to winhill:
Yes the are rather massive aren't they! good job i have a roof box eh but like you say, where does it all end?! :-/

In reply to woolsack:
do they have adjustable feet or do you have to fettle them yourself?

In reply to blanchie14c: I only found out about the levelling thing when I was researching a replacement for an old 3 way that didn't seem to be working too well. The levelling is important if you want to run your fridge whilst driving and obviously gas running is a big no-no.
Ive gone for a compressor fridge on the basis that I can run it off of a leisure battery on a split charge system, don't deplete my gas bottles and eventually run a reasonable size solar panel to keep it topped up. Ive also been experimenting with DIY wind turbines but these are more about amusing the kids than an effective energy strategy ATM

In reply to blanchie14c: I have just got one, a 12v cool box, which claims to reduce temperatures up to 20 degrees below ambient. Used it last week for a 5 day work trip, and my milk packed on Sunday was still fie on friday morning, yahguts etc also seemed to keep well. But I had access to mains a couple of times during the week and managed to re chill it from that. But warm beers put in, in the morning were ice cool by evening drinking time!

In the past I have used bog standard cool boxes, and have found a few tricks to work well, pack it as tightly as you can, freeze as much as possible before packing/leaving home, bags of ice from the supermarket work quite well mid week to top up the cold level/chill stuff down, keep it out of direct sun light etc.

I have a transformer in the car, which I use to charge most over items, laptop, phone, camera's etc! Although whilst camping I would rather read a good book than watch films, but thats just me!