UKC

/ Carabiner cracks/flaws, cosmetic or not?

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gethin_allen on 14 Oct 2018

I bought a few Camp orbit snapgates from a certain large blue retailer only to find when I got home, hidden under the paper labels, some uncertain marks which to the untrained eye look like cracks propagating from where the manufacturers name is stamped on the spine.

The marks appear very similar on all four carabiners I bought.

I've put a link below, anyone care to offer their opinions on whether they'd be concerned?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SwYtMcKfFv4v_C9D_O4KFrIPr2Bkdu-Y/view?usp=sharing

Thanks,

Gethin.

captain paranoia - on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to gethin_allen:

Can't see from that photo.

But, if you have doubts, take them back. As PPE, they are unlikely to offer their usual no quibble guarantee, but if you point out that you suspect them to be faulty (which, to prevent them simply going back on the shelf, you should), they really ought to respond appropriately. I'd probably ask to see the manager to return questionable PPE.

The same artefacts on four items, of different colours, so likely to be different batches, suggests it's unlikely to be an issue. I think if I were a manufacturer, I wouldn't want my products to look like they might have manufacturing faults, so I would modify my process to eliminate such cosmetic flaws...

tomski3 on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to gethin_allen:

I think that they look like stamping/forging artefacts and are unlikely to be worse than the inevitable scratches from use. They would all be batch tested/inspected, it is unlikely that there is a safety issue. To put your mind at rest I would email the photos to Camp, otherwise you'll never feel confident above them.

TobyA on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to tomski3:

I know someone who broke a Camp krab in a fall - it was not apparent why it broke and fortunately there were no injuries, but worryingly it was the same model that broke in the accident that killed Göran Kropp. Anyway, as I remember it he sent the broken model back to Camp and didn't hear anything back. Maybe there was miscommunication, maybe they could see the gate had been pushed open and that's why it failed etc. but for us in the UK sending broken gear to the BMC not the manufacturer seems the right thing to do, no matter how good the manufacturer is at being open about the kit they make.

I agree here though - they look more like scratches from the stamping or forging process, rather than cracks.

Post edited at 12:20
gethin_allen on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to captain paranoia:>

"The same artefacts on four items, of different colours, so likely to be different batches, suggests it's unlikely to be an issue. I think if I were a manufacturer, I wouldn't want my products to look like they might have manufacturing faults, so I would modify my process to eliminate such cosmetic flaws..."

I was thinking this, surely if all 4 have very similar marks then the whole batch would have and maybe more than one batch considering the two different colours.

if I had been able to see the marks before buying them imI quite sure I would have left them on the shelf but I'm unsure if I could return them now.

 

Oceanrower - on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to gethin_allen:

I may be missing something here, but why would different colours mean they aren't from the same batch?

captain paranoia - on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to Oceanrower:.

Well, it depends on their production line. The colour will be a post-anodising dye process, so there will be separation prior to that dye colour process.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think it more likely that batch processing would include the colour process. 

Oceanrower - on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to captain paranoia:

Ah, ok. I just assumed they made a shed load in a batch and that batch then went for annodising in multiple colours.

beardy mike - on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to gethin_allen:

Have asked a QC friend. To me they look like witness marks from the dietool, but then I'm not a QC guy. Will let you know what he thinks if I hear back from him...

gethin_allen on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to Oceanrower:

> I may be missing something here, but why would different colours mean they aren't from the same batch?


I only said maybe, as mentioned above it depends on their systems.

gethin_allen on 14 Oct 2018
In reply to beardy mike:

Thanks Mike, they are certainly physical indentations in the metal as you can get the point of a needle into them, especially the bit above the A of Camp.

mff513 on 15 Oct 2018
In reply to gethin_allen:

If you are a welder you could test for surface defects using red dye stuff and the white over coat forgotten its exact name but that shows up flaws in welds so would work the same here

nniff - on 15 Oct 2018
In reply to gethin_allen:

Just look like marks where they've been stamped.  I'd be more worried about those huge indentations that look like letters.....

jkarran - on 15 Oct 2018
In reply to gethin_allen:

> The marks appear very similar on all four carabiners I bought.

Given how similar the marks are I'd suspect they're marks present in the tooling but if you're not happy you're not happy, contact CAMP for a qualified opinion or take them back.

jk

 

gethin_allen on 15 Oct 2018
In reply to jkarran:

I took them back in the end. The manager was totally sympathetic with my concerns and didn't quibble at all. 

I had a look at the other various forms of camp orbit carabiniers in the shop (bent, screw and wire gates) and although some showed similar marks some were perfect (mostly the screw gate versions) and there wasn't much consistency. 


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