UKC

Forgive what might be an odd question.

Has any load/drop testing been done on the different types of harness buckles?

The DMM Renegade has a choice of buckle types:
Waist buckle is a Slide lock design, although a threadback version is available (Renegade Pro)

Apart from the convenience of the slide lock, and less chance of forgetting to thread the belt back through, are there any strength/safety advantages in choosing one over the other?

Manufacturers often quote the strength of the belay loop, and sometimes the haul loop but never seem to mention the buckles.

Having decided to retire my old harness (despite quite happily using it last year) I'm on the hunt for something that is "reassuringly strong" rather than "2.3 grams lighter than the rest"

Thanks in advance for any wisdom.

In reply to cuppatea:

They're all strong enough!

Old-school buckles seem to creep a bit less so need less attention over the course of a day. 'Zip-lock' or whatever they call them seem to creep a bit as you move around in the harness and knock them so they need occasional attention. On the other hand you can't forget to do them up properly. Both are adequately strong.

Personally I prefer the more idiot-proof option.
jk

In reply to cuppatea: I can't imagine any harness makers test the buckles. Why would they bother?

In reply to cuppatea:

On one of my old Wild Country harnesses, the buckle was rated (I think to 12 or 15 kN), so I assume that they are all tested in some way. However, I don't know about ratings for buckles per se, but I would guess that they are tested as part of the harness as a whole as that has to pass all the tests to allow it to be sold as PPE. buckle strength is not something I have ever been concerned about.

My preference is still for double back buckles on winter or alpine harnesses, as I have had ziplock buckles come loose on me over time, but I'm not fussed for summer climbing.

In reply to cuppatea:

I'm in the 'reassuringly strong' camp too. I have had a couple of Metolius safetech harnesses in which everything is strong, but it weighs little more than a standard harness. They have the added bonus of an adjustable raise, which means they fit properly with summer shorts or winter insulation.

I'm always tempted to clip my mate's cow's tail into one of the full strength gear loops just to induce a seizure...

On a practical level, it also means that abbing in to a sea cliff you can happily clip a colied rope to a gear loop.

In reply to cuppatea: I've just downloaded the standard on harnesses, BS 7323:1990. A quick read suggests that, as you would hope, buckles are very much part of the testing procedure. Some excerpts:

Test procedure: "Using a bowline knot, attach a rope of 11 mm nominal diameter to the sit harness in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions for normal climbing. Attach the other end of the rope to a tensile testing machine and a force measuring instrument. Apply a tension force via the rope and increase it gradually to a maximum of 16 kN over a period of 2 ± 0.25 min"

"After testing as described [above], record and report the extent to which the sit harness has shown any visible signs of damage or has suffered any deformation that would affect its function at any attachment point, loop or combination of loops, joint, buckle or adjusting device. Express and report the slip of any buckle or adjusting device in millimetres."

"the sit harness, when tested as described [above], shall show no visible signs of damage, nor serious deformation which would affect its function, at any point of attachment, joint, buckle or adjusting device.At the same time, the slip through any buckle or adjusting device shall not
exceed 10 mm."

All harnesses from the big brands will pass this standard. The only thing to look out for is durability: a lighter harness will struggle to be as durable as a heavier one. eg. Petzl Corax will likely last longer than a Petzl Hirundos.

In reply to cuppatea:

The only 'issue' I know of with speed lock (or whatever they are called) buckles on leg loops is if you use a prussik loop abseil backup connected directly to the leg loop (my preferred method). Apparently an incorrectly applied load can allow the buckle to release.

In reply to GrahamD:
Thanks, all!

In reply to cuppatea:

"Having decided to retire my old harness (despite quite happily using it last year) I'm on the hunt for something that is "reassuringly strong" rather than "2.3 grams lighter than the rest""

How heavy are you (if you don't mind me asking)?

I'm the best part of 18st and mine are non-threadbacks, and it has never caused me any issues.

Neil

In reply to cuppatea:

The only thing I'd add is that it makes sense for instructors to use threadback buckles on centre / training harnesses. The reason for that is quite simply that if a new climber doesn't know about threadbacks, it increases the chance they'll end up not threading them back and end up killing themselves the first time they encounter one.

The same thing applies to alpine style harnesses at centres, which are quite common, though to a lesser extent because you're far less likely to end up dead because you tied into your belay loop because you didn't know better (something I've seen quite often).

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:
I'm about 13.5 stone, which is going down slowly as I become more reassuringly strong

Standing by for a spin-off 'How strong is a chalkbag tie on loop?' thread..

In reply to nniff:

I'd not heard of Metolius before so had a quick google.. The gear loops are rated to 10 kn! That *is* reassuringly strong
They even claim 10kn for the belt when it's not doubled back

In reply to cuppatea:

I'm rather taken with the 6.6kn rear elastic myself - even I would struggle to clip something to that!

Apart from the strength, they do work really very well