UKC

Hi, looking some advice on choosing some winter boots. I currently have a pair of salomon quest 4d gtx which have served me well but I was told (by someone in here actually) that they're not ideal for winter climbs. Looking for something primarily for walking/ascending peaks but maybe with an option for a low grade crampon as that's something that would maybe interest me in the future. 

In reply to Removed User:

Scarpa Manta Pro

As ever, go to a shop and see what they advise and, more importantly, what fits!!!

In reply to bouldery bits:

I just checked out the scarpa manta Pro and they look like a great suggestion, thankyou

In reply to Removed User:

Another Scarpa, the Triolet (Decathlon have them still) was the most comfortable winter boot I've ever worn. They're light and though comfortable they're good for semi-auto crampons. I bought them thinking they were C3 but they're really C2 though good for IV or higher if you have the calves for it. The vibram sole is quite thin, but mine stood up to 3 seasons of climbing with assorted walk-ins and they were fabulously comfortable despite the stiffnes -possibly because of their low weight. I've met folk hillwalking in them in summer though I imagine the soles will last longer with more snow on the ground.

Scarpa name their lasts -so if you find a boot with the same last you can be reasonably confdent in ordering online. I replaced mine with a pair of Scarpa Mont Blanc  as i wanted a full C3 for climbing rather than walking, but the Triolet were superb all rounders. 

In reply to Removed User:

Sounds like you're after something in the B1-B2 category. We reviewed 8 models in 2019, which might throw up some other brands and options than have already been mentioned:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/gear/footwear/mountain_boots/all_round_b1-b2_...

By far the most important thing is that they fit you, personally. There's no shortcut to that - you've got to go and thoroughly try on several different pairs...

In reply to Removed User:

Decathlon "blue boots" (can't remember the name), if they fit your feet. Cheap, crampon compatible (heel welt) cheap, light reasonably stiff and did I mention cheap?

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Thankyou very much for the link 

In reply to Basemetal:

Would have edited this to say I didn't mean they only lasted 3 seasons! I sold them on in very good condition with really very little sole wear showing (used mostly above the snowline in the Cairngorms) to fund the Mont Blancs I mentioned. Oh, and C2, C3 should of course have been B2, B3. Soz.

In reply to Basemetal:

No worries, thanks for the clarification 

they can fit you in the shop, they can fit you walking to the shops.....

but you will only really know if they suit your feet when you are on the hill and they dont massacre your feet

In reply to Removed User:

I do not like a lot of this advice for your needs. You absolutely do not need a B2 boot. A B2 boot is designed for climbing primarily, it is not as comfortable to walk in, heavier, less flexible and works best with a c2 crampon, which I think will be overkill given that you have asked for a walking boot that will occasionally take a crampon. 

For winter I prefer a full grain leather boot, something like the Scarpa SL with serve you for years. If you want a fabric and leather boot you  can get much lighter and more flexible b1 boots now like the Scarpa marmolada, or la sportive trango trek which will take a flexible crampon and be much more use than inflexible B2 boots.

Some people are comfortable walking in very stiff boots, but for most purposes for your needs a boot with a bit more flexibility will be much more useful.

Ciaran 

In reply to ciaran1999:

Sorry, this is just plain wrong unless you mean something very different by "climbing" than I and seemingly the outdoor industry does. The whole B1, B2, B3 thing was helpful when it first came into use in the mid-90s but people have become fixated with it and with boots of such different designs being around now it can really confuse.

There are plenty of "B2" boots that are not designed primarily for climbing and work perfectly well with no crampons or "C1" crampons. We alluded to this in the B1 and and B2 review Dan linked above: it seems one of the biggest issues on what you can do in "B2" boots stems from how big your feet are (and perhaps what you have done in the past). I have 7.5 sized feet and quite happily have climbed steep hard water ice in light B2 boots. Editor Dan has ridiculously large feet and finds that most B2 boots he has tried feel rather too flexi for technical climbing. Then again Dan has for many years mountaineered all over the UK winter mountains, whilst I spent many years doing most of my winter climbing in Finland where often your step off horizontal ice (frozen lake) onto steep or vertical ice, which you climb for 10 - 25 mtrs before crawling onto the flat forested top of the cliff. It's ice climbing, but it's not mountaineering. Modern crampon designs has made the C1, C2 and C3 system almost meaningless - its come to be mainly a sign of the binding system, but loads of crampons models are now modular in their bindings (see the first illustration in this review https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/snow+ice/crampons/beast_lite_crampons_from_...). And related to this the difference between B2 and B3 now seems to be mainly as to whether a boot has a toe welt or not to take a full step in crampon binding.

You are right that don't need a B2 boot for winter hillwalking, although many prefer some stiffness for kicking steps in snow regardless of whether they have crampons on or not. From what the OP said it sounds like currently he wants to go winter hillwalking but is interested in trying out some easy winter hillwalking in the future. The cut off between winter hillwalking and winter climbing is very vague anyway. A route like Swirall Edge in heavy snow is a good example. Very few people use a rope for it. The techy bit is relatively short, but most people are going to either grab the rock spikes, or hook their axe round them, or perhaps swing their axe into frozen turf - all which sound a lot like climbing. 

RaulDuke - I've found plenty of modern composite boots that are rather light, comfy to hike in (sure, you won't use them in summer, but many of use use trail shoes for summer now anyway) and work well with strap on or semi-auto crampons.  Of course fit is personal, but I would definitely look at something like the AKU Tengu https://www.ukhillwalking.com/gear/footwear/mountain_boots/all_round_b1-b2_... I reviewed them and they are a really good all-rounder. I've used them in summer too and they are fine even for that but really come into their own for when there is some snow around.

In reply to TobyA:

I was offering correct and helpful advice. I think that is a bit of an aggressive responsive to be honest "this is just plain" wrong. Followed by "you are right" a few paragraphs down. 

The OP said they may wish to use crampons, but mostly they will be walking. Are you seriously advocating B2 boots for everyday walking? Sure the feet will toughen to accommodate them, but why bother when a softer boot is lighter, more comfortable and just as capable of kicking steps in snow? Often the tread pattern on climbing orientated B2 boots in lower profile and of softer rubber than their b1 counterparts. 

In terms of b1 B2 etc you are correct that it is a little up for debate, ie a Scarpa SL with its stiff leather up can be stiffer underfoot than a very soft b2. 

But on that I made two good recommendations suitable for purpose, which is walking 99% of the time. There is a reason why the manufacturers categorise products. You can wear a b3 boot for rock climbing but you would be better off in a rock shoe for example (height/temperature dependent of course!) 

I did not set out to be confrontational, I offered clear reasons for my viewpoint I feel that you could have replied with your opinion without quoting me and then telling me Im both completely wrong but also right? 

In reply to ciaran1999:

I wear B2 Mantas almost every day walking for work ( 6hrs or so) I find them more comfortable as I don't feel all the rough undulations/ stones and get more traction even when on low rough hills and not in mountainous terrain. I also wear them scrambling in mountains  good all round boot and can take a c2 crampon in winter.

but I also know that won't suit everyone. B

In reply to ciaran1999:

I quoted you where I said I though you were wrong. That's why I quoted you. Where I said I thought you were right was an entirely different point.

Raul seems to be talking about winter hillwalking - hence "ascending peaks", if you do that everyday (i.e. go winter hillwalking where there's a good chance of their being snow and ice at least high up), then sure, some B2 boots are what I would recommend as that's what they are designed for.

In reply to TobyA:

What are Scarpa sls designed for? Specifically I mean. Now what are Scarpa mantas designed for, specifically I mean? If you could just answer both those questions with no extras please?

In reply to Brownie:

I agree absolutely for some people a stiffer boot is comfortable, sometimes advantageous depending on injury etc. But when we are discussing which boots are best for hillwalking in the winter, and everyone is recommending B2 boots, I considered it was worth giving the advice which is considered optimal by manufacturers. 

Thats why I said in my first post some people are comfortable in b2s, and they are certainly not wrong, but when we are trying to give best advice, in this case, b2s are probably not the answer. At least they should not be the only consideration. I don't understand why this is so controversial. As an aside if it helps I have had specific boot training from 3 different outdoor shops, as well as meindl, Lowa, Salomon, keen, the north face and hanweg. I worked in the outdoor industry for 15 years, many of them as a footwear specialist, and had the opportunity to test alot of kit as part of that process. 

I am not giving advice because I want attention, merely to help the original posters feet. What is going on here? 

In reply to TobyA:

Also are you suggesting B2 boots do not work best with c2 crampons? Given that that was the point on which you said I was completely wrong. The rating system was designed for boot manufacturers and crampon manufacturers to be able to build specific products which would complement each other. What exactly are you suggesting when you say I am completely wrong about this? Raul Paul specifically asked for low grade crampons for occasional use.

He is correct on that, they will be lighter and more flexible, more comfortable on his feet and considerably more likely to fit friends and relatives boots in the event of borrowing etc. 

In reply to ciaran1999: I guess this is all stuff for the OP to think about before he tries some boots on (the important bit)

In reply to Removed User:

In the UK, if you're moving I've found insulation to be an almost null point. It just doesn't get that cold here (Scottish multipitch belays aside). If you're looking for winter walks with some gentle climbing days over easy ground, I'd be looking in the Scarpa Ribelle family (check out the Ribelle Lite HD). They're mind bogglingly light for something that will take a C2 crampon. Paired with a nice warm sock they should cover most things.  

In reply to ciaran1999:

What do you think a C2 crampon is? And what does "work best" mean?

The point where I thought you were plain wrong is when you said "A B2 boot is designed for climbing primarily". I'm reasonably happy climbing moderately technical routes in boots I have that get given B2, but amongst the UKC reviewers I seemed to be in a minority there - probably because my feet aren't particularly big. And both my mono points for ice and my current all-rounder for UK winter climbs crampons (the slightly weird BD Snaggletooth) are full step-in so I mainly wear my Trango Extreme boots or elderly Nepal Extremes, both of which are primarily designed for climbing in (so "B3s"). What grade have you climbed to in B2s that led you to come to your conclusion?

I'm not sure why you take someone disagreeing with you as "aggressive". I don't agree with some things you said about boots, but don't worry, I'm not going to offer to fight a duel with you about it!

In reply to Removed User:

Go to a good outdoor shop, talk through honestly your needs and aspirations and you will get the advice you need.  You mention winter climbs, ascending peaks and low grade crampon (do you mean low grade winter routes).  These will mean different things to different people so best to have an honest discussion in the shop.  Even winter walking can take you onto steeper and exposed ground where crampons and ice axe are essential.

In reply to TobyA:

Wow. I feel like I'm back at school.

I hope the op is able to filter through the mud and find the good information here. 

The best I have seen from quite a few people now is to pop into a shop and spend a few hours talking to staff. 

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Simond Alpinism Bleu boots. I've got a pair, which I use for winter walking. Fortunately, they fit me nicely from first use. £130.

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-bleu-boot-id_8324356.html

They also do a lighter pair, £150.

In reply to Removed User:

I have no affiliation to Outside, but these are a bargain if they fit! https://www.outside.co.uk/la-sportiva-trango-cube-gtx-mountaineering-boots....
Light, comfortable, a downside is the sole isn’t super durable.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Funnily enough I just bought a pair yesterday - having worn out the previous version (which was a much more sombre shade of grey)

I use them all year round (saves having to buy "winter" boots and "summer" boots)

In reply to Removed User:

My first winter boots were a pair Scarpa Rebel Lite, a very flexible B2, sort of B1.5 if you will. Especially for me, I've got feet like fins.

Great to walk in and they take a C2 crampon with a flexible bar. They'll get you up easy winter routes if you go that way in future. Murder on the calves for front pointing though.

Usual caveats about fit, trying stuff on etc.

Jim

In reply to Removed User:

I'll throw my tuppence in here and recommend you get a pair of good light weight B2 boots, I'd suggest either Scarpa or La Sportiva.  While its true that B1s are good enough for UK winter walking you might outgrow their capabilities quite quickly.  A good pair of reasonably light B2s (Scarpa Charmoz or similar) will do almost everything as you progress as a winter mountaineer in the UK.  They'll be good enough for summer bogs, winter walking, easy grade winter routes, your first jaunt to the summer alps etc etc.  Climbing and mountaineering are addictive and if you start with winter walking you'll likely want more and more.  A good pair of B2s will take you there until you get on routes that are cold/hard enough for you to buy some B3s.

In reply to Removed User:

I've got Manta Pros, they'll be heavier/stiffer than your current boots so might take a bit of getting used to but they'll stand up to UK terrain. A lot of people don't get on with B2 boots and stick them on ebay which is how I got mine.

I used stiffish B0 boots and C1 crampons for years without any issues in Glen Coe, Cairngorms etc, so that's an option if you're getting into winter hillwalking.

In reply to ciaran1999:

And you're going to get a gold star for your great attitude to learning! Well done. Keep it up. etc.

In reply to Removed User:

The Alt-Berg Mallerstang Mountain Boot are good. Can take a flexible crampon. Nice strong leather.

In reply to Removed User:

Meindl borneo / bhutan or whatever they are called now. Not B2 but they last years, I'm on my 3rd pair. They take flexi crampons when needed and I've never had a crampon 'pop'. Definitely buy from a shop with good staff.  

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I'd like to put my vote behind the Ribelle Lite HD. I recently purchased them and while there hasn't been the opportunity to use them in winter yet (as mentioned I can't see why they wouldn't work with a reasonably thick sock), I've used them on a couple of scrambles this summer and they've been a pleasure to use even in warm weather. Supportive on steeper ground, so light you barely know you've got them on, and not too stiff to make walk-ins unpleasant (they're more like a B1.5 really).

But at the end of the day as others have mentioned, try a few out and see what fits your feet best!

In reply to druridge:

Another vote for Meindl Bhutan. I've had 4 pairs now over the last 10 years ( 2 wore out through use every day, summer and winter!)  They are easily the most comfortable and waterproof mountain walking boots I've had in over 50 years of mountaineering. I am considering trying Borneos when my current boots expire as these are reputed to be just as waterproof without the Gortex lining (which the Bhutans have) suggesting better quality leather which may last longer?

In reply to Trangia:

Having recommended Scarpa Triolet further up (the leather version of the Charmoz, apparently) I'm interested to see Meindls come up as I use these as well. The feel of the two kinds of boot is quite different and I think of the Borneo as my walking boot and it's a more flexible boot all round -though plenty stiff enough for winter hillwalking and I use Kahtoola crampons with them (which, of course, you can use on trainers if you want to...) tho a classic crampon with a bendy link bar would be fine too. The Scarpa is more a mountaineering and climbing boot and good for front pointing, edging, scrambling and rock climbing. Comfort levels between the two boots actually went slightly the Scarpa way, which I didn't expect given its stiffer sole.