UKC

Can anyone help? I have a night navigation assessment coming up, and I’m trying to find a decent baseplate compass with good night illumination. 

I am currently using a Silva 4, and the illumination is fine on the bezel and plate, but it’s rubbish on the needle, where you need it most! Does anyone have any thoughts? I thought the Expedition 54, but that seems unavailable. 
 

Navigate by the stars. It's a fail safe method! Particularly good in Scotland, clear skys guaranteed!

I feel a cloudy tongue in my cheek...

??? You need a headtorch to look at the map, use that. 

That was my thought. Unless you're going all 'tactical' your're also not going to be walking at night without a headtorch, and there's enough scattered light to see a compass bezel and needle.

Edit: Also worth noting that modern lume needs to be 'activated' by light and fades when stored in the dark. Try subjecting it to really bright light prior to use to improve the brightness.

Just done mine in 50 mph winds and the Silva compass no 4 worked just fine.

As you would in daylight, sometimes you may get a small feature to walk towards when you point to your direction of travel. 

Just ensure you have a strong headtorch with new batteries in and spares.

Good luck with the nav.

I've never had an issue with by expedition 4 on night nav provided I've got a decent headtorch, but I found it got a little stiff after a few years. I do prefer the slightly fancier Silva Expedition compass which is essentially the same but everything is a little chunkier which I find makes it easier to use with gloves on and at night (generally night nav = gloves for me and my freezing hands!)

Yes, I should have been clearer. A headtorch would be an instant fail. otherwise it wouldn’t be worth asking the question. 
 

You used to be able to get Silva 4 in mils with Tritium paint, but I can’t find one any more. 

I think I used to have one of those with the ☢ radiation symbol on it! 😂

Ah. See what you mean about the Type 4/54 B Silva compasses, don't appear to be available anywhere.

Maybe just try and expose the lume to a very bright light just prior to the ex. Should be ok for 4 hours.

Only other option I can think of is a piece of luminous material held under the bezel so you can see the 'shadow' of the needle over it?

Sorry; is this night navigation exercise for the military where you need to be covert?

You need to be able to see the map to set the compass; that will require a headtorch (very low level, or red light). Thereafter, you might follow the compass bearing relying only on the illuminated dial.

Silva seem to have stopped making the 4/54 a few years ago. I managed to get a pair from Australia back in about 2019, fortunately northern hemisphere ones, but that was only after a massive internet search. It's a pity because it was a great compass and the way the needle floated in the compass housing was llovely.

I blast my compass with a torch on full beam for a while before doing night nav, and then refresh the luminosity as necessary.

Using a headtorch is an instant fail! What navigation assessment you are doing, Singinghound?

It is beyond me why any course/assessment for night time navigation would demand you do not use a headtorch.

Please elucidate.

Dave

Get a small torch, tape up the end and put a a pin prick through it. When dark gives just enough light to have eyes on the map and compass. 

If that is still an issue you can go further and use your jacket to shield this light if you get down and place it over your head and the map. 

If there is zero white light allowed the only other option I could think of if is to set a route card for each checkpoint with bearings and distances pre recorded. 

You need light to read a map so I don't understand how it could be an instant fail.

Apologies not very relevant to the compass question. But options to reduce light exposure

Whenever I am out walking in the countryside at night I always wear a small headtorch but usually have it turned off for about three quarters of the time. It is amazing how little light one needs for walking at night, even in fairly rough terrain. Usually there is enough moonlight or light pollution to find ones way. Only in deep forests, or dangerous terrain, or crossing boulder fields, etc.,  do I find I need the torch on. Even in boulder fields, I usually find it best to alternate between having the light on and off. The problem with torchlight is that it causes one's eyes to stop down, so that one can see little beyond the pool of light.

A good luminous compass avoids the need to keep turning the torch on and off. Also, with clear skies, I often navigate by stars (in much the same way as I use the sun during the day). One can start off by determining the direction to various stars and planets with the compass.

I think that learning to walk at night with the minimum of light is a useful skill.

Better still, get a modern LED torch that has fine control over the power output.

I may be basing this entirely on an old film (possibly A Bridge Too Far), but how about get an army poncho over your head (assuming they still issue those thick dark olive coloured ones) and use a faint torch with red light filter under the poncho to do any necessary map and compass work?

I'm calling sockpuppet again! 

I’m not sure I need to. I’m not a civilian. My question solely relates to finding a piece of kit that used to be available, but no longer seems to be. I was hoping someone here might point me in the right direction  (Pun)  

Well, if you're military, asked to be issued with the correct kit. Which will be a tritium-illuminated compass.

Or buy yourself a tritium dial compass:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tritium+dial+compass

You’d think. But it’s not. It’s a normal Silva 4 in mils, and the illumination on the needle is very poor. It peters out far quicker than that on the bezel. 
The tritium version seems to be a thing of the past. 

Because it's phosphorescent, not radioactive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorescence

Google search suggest otherwise: see above.

If you need a radioactive compass for tactical reasons, and they are unavailable on the open, civilian market, then you need to be issued with one. It's the same as needing an SA-80; I can't go to my local Cotswold Outdoor and buy an SA-80, so they have to be standard issue.

https://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/cammenga-protractor-baseplate-tritium-c...

That's about all I could find, but I echo the previous comments, you should be issued with decent kit if that's the requirements of the course.

Ok, I’ll be sure to mention that. 😀

Hmmmm. You would think that. But find me a soldier whose experience endorses that logic. Thanks for the link. This looks like the closest solution: a tritium baseplate. Appreciate that. 
 

You need a Braille compass.

Sorry about that. I don’t know what a Silva 4/54 is but there’s one on EBay. 

Well, if they're unaware that the Silva NATO 4B tritium compass, NSN 6605-99-582-5812 is no longer available to the public, then someone needs to tell them.

You might also point them to JSP392 Chapter 19...

Just looked at the spec for the Expedition 54 and it says that the luminosity is activated by torchlight and only lasts 4 hours. 

Nice find.  A lot of money for a compass though. I'm interested if any one knows why you can buy Tritium lit from the US. But apparently not Europe? I could speculate, but I would be guessing. Any one know?

Learn to focus your nods?

I don't think there's any restriction. The link I posted was a UK website, and here's another one selling the Silva 4B

https://www.trekitt.co.uk/equipment/navigation-gps/silva-4b-6400-360-nato-c...

I just think they're not particularly common, and just bloody expensive, given the half life of tritium is just over 12 years, so you'll eventually end up with a 'normal' type 4 compass.

Well found; all the hits i found were out of stock. £65 is 'only' a £20 premium on a standard Expedition compass.

I see they're quoting 7.5 years, vs your 12. I wonder if they've been in stock for a while...

That thought did cross my mind!

Edit. Not sure at what point the beta radiation becomes insufficient to activate the luminous bits.