UKC

is this the all singing all dancing bit of kit which i am being told. have you used it? what are the problems? and what do you use it for?

In reply to marc: No idea. Tried to buy one to test but was told that the entire stock in the shipment were all sold out. Looks the business.

In reply to stonemaster: It seems to be 2, or 3, bits of kit, in one, so it's great for a replacement for any one of them, I think. As I already have a belay device, and tiblocs, it would be a tad superfluous, for me.

cheers,
Tim, the Grey

In reply to Tim the Grey: Problem I have with one of this type of gear is what to do when I need to use the 2 or 3 it replaces together at the same time (as the ad says).

In reply to marc: Was given 4 Reversos instead of what I ordered for a school climbing club, because the bloke in the shop said they were the business. Had to take them back because I didn't like them for these reasons.

1. Supposedly ideal for multipitch double rope climbs, self locking when belaying the second. However often on a multipitch climb you need to give the second some slack on one or both of the ropes. This is not possible if you use the reverso in this way. It also locks off very aggresively which is not good for your anchors.

2. Works well when used as a normal belay plate, but I don't like the thin sharp edge at the top!

3. Too fussy, not good for beginners because it has two metal loops and the beginners might get confused.

The reverso is not realy a device that doubles for other devices. It is prmarily designed for multipitch double rope climbing and does not do a good job of it. Better to use a normal belay device, (Sticht plate, Tuber, ATC, ect.) for belaying the leader, and use an Italian hitch (no need for extra kit!) to belay the second.

In reply to Rob S:

nice one rob thanks for the time spent, much appreciated.
sounds like maybe I won't rush out and get one.
happy cragging

I disagree with rob. He's right when he says its for double rope multipitch belaying and for that i have found it brilliant. It does everything a sticht plate/atc does and more. I'd agree that it is not good for beginners but try doing an italian hitch with double ropes ! There are times when it is good to belay directly from your anchors i.e. round a tree for instance or certainly from bolts. It is also alot quicker to bring rope in on a direct belay if your second is moving quickly over easy ground.
The reverso might not be the right device for everyone but i have found it to be excellent.

In reply to Simon: I agree. I also have a petzel reverso and have found it excellent for multi pitch climbing especially bring up a second using the self locking.

In reply to Mark:

I got a reverso just a few weeks ago before heading out to Canada, and I think it's great. While Rob is right that in self-locking mode it is impossible to give any slack, you don't have to use this mode if you don't want to.

It's good for belaying leaders and seconds, it's smooth as a descender, and it works well for self-belaying up a fixed rope.

Also agree with Rob that, being a little more complex than a standard friction device, there is a greater scope for error. But if you read the instructions and pay attention to what you're doing, what's the problem?

In reply to Will: You raise an interesting idea - I hadn't thought of using the reverso for self-belaying. I'd heard it could be used as an ascender, but I had to sneak a look at the instruction leaflet in a shop to work out how. As I understand it, you can ascend with it by using it in self-locking mode. Is this also how you self-belay with it? And how safe do you think it is used in that way?

In reply to Martin W:

>Is this also how you self-belay with it?

Yep. It hadn't occured to me either, but it's actually shown in the instruction leaflet. I would guess it's pretty safe if Petzl are prepared to advocate it's use, and I tried taking a (small) fall onto at the climbing wall. It seems fine.

In reply to Will: To satisfy my curiosity, I went out and bought myself a reverso. Any excuse to get a new toy! I paid the smae for it as I did for my ATC, so no difference there. I then took it down to a local quarry to try it out.

First impressions are that it is a smoother ab device than my ATC (which I also had with me, and which I also abbed on for comparison), and the self-locking mode does indeed work as advertised, including for self-belay.

I also discovered that it is quite easy to switch from self-belay/ascent mode to abseil, by clipping the "locking" krab back in to the harness ab loop and then unclipping the other krab. Obviously you need to keep control of the braking rope while you do this.

Next test will be out with partner using it as a belay device on both single and double ropes.

I don't completely agree with all of the issues which Rob S raised:
1. It's true that you can't give slack when using it self-locking mode, but that is mentioned in the instruction leaflet and anyway you don't have to use it that way if you don't want to.
2. I don't think the "thin sharp edge" is any more so than on my ATC. At least, a fingertip comparison of the two doesn't indicate any detectable difference.
3. The second metal loop does make it a more complex design than an ATC. However, I think it would be extremely difficult to rig it using the wrong loop, and even if you managed to do that it would be so obviously wrong that anyone would have to be pretty dumb to start climbing belayed like that.

I'd agree with Simon, that it does what it is designed to do very well. It's probably not the best device to give to a beginner, but then again I don't think it would take much teaching and experience to be unlikely to kill anyone with it. Anyone who doesn't need the additional features and capabilities it has over an ATC or sticht plate can stick to what they know. The fact that it can also do some of the same things as some other bits of kit does not, to me, mean that I can leave those bits of kit at home. It just means that I have a fallback if I lose or break any of those other bits of kit.

In reply to Martin W:
>I also discovered that it is quite easy to switch from self-belay/ascent mode to abseil, by clipping the "locking" krab back in to the harness ab loop and then unclipping the other krab.

Doh! Hadn't even occured to me to do that! Brilliant tip, thanks mate

>Obviously you need to keep control of the braking rope while you do this.

Or use my old mate the prussik.

In reply to Will:
>I also discovered that it is quite easy to switch from self-belay/ascent mode to abseil, by clipping the "locking" krab back in to the harness ab loop and then unclipping the other krab.

Tried this last night, and found that as soon as I clipped the locking krab to my belay loop it was then in standard belay/descender mode. With one hand on the dead rope, and one hand clipping the krab, I then don't have anything to hold on to the rock and keep the rope unloaded for this process.

So although it works well, I definitely think you need a prussik for this as a 3rd hand.

In reply to Will:


I understand the problem you encountered. When I worked out this trick I was actually standing on a ledge about 12ft up, so I could unweight the rope fairly easily. I don't think I'd be so keen to try such a trick if I was hanging in space.

If I was going to ab any distance I would put a prusik on the dead rope anyway, which should hold the reverso locked off as you undo the other krab. You might also be able to use the old trick of wrapping the dead rope(s) round your leg a couple of times to lock off the ab device.

I'd certainly want to practice these tricks in controlled circumstances, somewhere safe and not too far off the ground, before attempting to use them in anger.

In reply to marc:

I watched a French guide belaying his clients usinf one of these devices. The useful thing with it is that you can bring up two "seconds" at a time when you use it in auto-lock mode.

My friend was so impressed that he bought one. However, it's not clear how you can lower a second with the thing used like this.

My impression of the thing is that it is a piece of kit with little going for it... I'm not going to get one except if I ever want to bring up two seconds at once.

Tim

In reply to Tim Hoddy:


I disagree, it's quite clear - you can't. This has been mentioned by a number of respondents on this thread, and is also made quite clear in the intruction manual. One solution is: if you think you might need to lower your second, use it in normal belay plate mode, not self-locking mode.


Again, I have to disagree. It's just as good a belay device as an ATC, if not better, because you can use it different ways round depending on the amount of braking friction you need (this is shown in the instruction manual). I think it is smoother than an ATC for abbing. On top of that, you can use it in self-locking mode if you want to, and you can also use it as an ascender. It strikes me as being a pretty versatile device with few apparent downsides apart from the slight additional complexity compared to a normal single function belay device (ie the second loop).

It does the same jobs as an ATC and more, and it costs the same. That sounds to me like it has something going for it.

In reply to marc: Hi marc my name is panos and i am from Greece.well the uses of reverso are many you can use it as a sefety feature (see huit) you can also use it for rappeling and you can use it as a safety for the second person who's coming up. you can e-mail me if you want for fourther information.

Ciao
Panos

In reply to Martin W: Yes Martin but what happens when your second has an accident and is left dangling in space ! You can't lower your partner.

TOP TIP - If you use the locking krab as a ratchet it lets rope out although it messes your rope up twisting it, this enables atleast the weight to be transferred to a prussik therefore getting you out of the system.. Dodgy but a solution! and then you can do all the usual rescue stuff!

In reply to marc:

have used one of these for a while now. In auto locking mode, you can lower/give slack by weighting the krab - easiest if you clip a sling into it. The thing can speed up long multi pitch routes because you can eat/drink/sort gear whilst you bring the second up. If you ever need to hoist a second, you can rig an assisted hoist by simply lowering a loop of slack rope with a krab on it - no need to lock off the belay plate and put a french prussik on the live rope.

I'm not a gear freak and it is certainly far from perfect, but overall I've been impressed.

In reply to Bob: I agree with Bob it`s easy to give slack to second by simply weighting the locking crab.I have been using it for 3 months & so does my son ,9, he finds it easy to use .It jams a lot less than other devices.
I also used it in the ascendeur mode to rescue my son off a route he couldn`t do and was very impressed by the devices versatility.
It also lends itself to self belaying with a little thought.
Many of the guides use them ,that alone speaks volumes.
It`s apparent many of the comments above are from people who have not figured out how to use the device to it`s full potential.

In reply to IAIN: I'll add to the praise. Did an easy route on Lliwedd last week with two mates, and being able to bring both up safely at their own rates and the same time was excellent.

In reply to Mattyk, who wrote: "what happens when your second has an accident and is left dangling in space ! You can't lower your partner."

1) If there is a risk of your partner being left dangling in space then don't use the Reverso in auto-locking mode. As I said, it does the same as an ATC and more. TOP TIP: If you don't want to use the additional features, don't. Simple.

2) A number of folks have suggested ways in which you can lower your partner in such a situation. I don't know if this is what you meant by using the locking krab as a "ratchet". Thanks for these suggestions, I'll have to try them out in controlled circumstances.

In reply to Martin W:
Firslt i like my reverso and it versatility !
1.) I realise that - But there is always a risk that your partner could be knocked out and leave the rope loaded on something that you wouldn't expect anything to go wrong!
As far as your top tip is concerned - I wll still use it and except the consequences should something go wrong - as the self locking mode is great if you are cold tired etc... - Use twin ropes and then you can always fashion a rescue!

2.) i tried these ideas on some bolted climb (nice and controlled in ideal circumstances (warm etc..) and it was still a pain in the arse!

Petzls disclamer reads something like - We do not accept any responsibility for any rescue resulting from the use of this.

I just think its important that people are aware of the potential difficulties!

As far as people attaching a sling and transferring weight from karabiners is concerned to unlock the reverso - Try it when somebody heavier than you hanging in space, its impossible!

MATT