UKC

After reviewing some of the messages and doing some homework, I have come to realize that Schoeller fabrics are becoming very scarce. New kit advertised as soft-shell is almost exclusively Polartec fabrics and you have to look long and hard for Dryskin fabric in any new models.
I am not a fan of Polartec compared to Schoeller products but I do realize Polartec is much cheaper than anything else due to the very weak dollar.

Is it just a matter of economics or is Polartec really a better material for Soft-Shells? Anyone have an explanation?

Cheers

In reply to spectator:

I rate powershield much more highly than Schoeller. That's not to say that Schoeller isn't a decent fabric. What you'll find is that next year most brands will have their own Schoeller 'copy' fabrics which will be cheaper and should offer similar performance. Powershield is better tho'.

In reply to spectator:

Schoeller is still a main staple in most Euro brands, Eider, Mammut etc However Schoeller as a fabric company are a pain to deal with, so similar fabrics can be found elsewhere for less hassle, Malden powershield is great, although a bit warm for summer alpine use - especially as its nearly always black - because of the high price - companies can't afford more than one colour normally!!

Gerard

In reply to Gerard: You can't group Schoeller into one fabric. They do a ton of different versions. Dave says that compared to Powershield Schoeller isnt as good but Schoeller have a fabric called WB400 which was out way before Powershield and is essentially what Malden Mills (Polartec) used as a basis for Powershield. When comparing them WB400 rates very well.

In reply to spectator: i'm a huge fan of WB400 and you can still find Schoeller in mammut and even (i think) berghaus do a jacket in it now! Powershield is lighter feeling though i like the slightly more neoprene feel of WB400.

As for why people use it its not all to do with performance now is it! money, politics, ease of shipping etc all add to it but guess lot of it is to do with companies already using polartec in fleece items and malden also do a nice presentation to companies to try and sell their story, Schoeller are slightly harder to track down and malden are easy to work with (plus Shoeller charge for sample meterage)! Not much in it its just personal preference of the designer like saying which is best between vauxhaul and ford, its just which one the garment tech. likes at the time!

In reply to epik:

I don't want to start getting too anal about which fabric is better but I am a huge fan of DrySkin with it's CoolMax, even stretch, cordura and 3XDRY anti-moisture finish.

It has worked so well for me in the mountains and for sailboat racing.

I'm just blow away that it's getting harder to find and it's the fabric that created the "Soft Shell" market. Patagonia, Mountain Hardwear, Arc'Teryx, North Face, Haglofs and other similar companies have cut back or replaced there Schoeller fabrics with Polartec.

I guess I'm just asking if anybody in the industry knows the scoop.

I think it is one of the most versatile fabrics on the market. Because it's lighter you are able to layer it and wear it in warmer conditions than Powershield.

I disagree that Powershield is better, I find it less breathable, has a bad feel against the skin especially when your clammy, lacks the even stretch and wicking properties compared to Dryskin. I think it's a light weight knock-off of Schoellers WD-400 fabric.

I am rapidly seeing Dryskin fade away for some reason and Polartec stepping in as a monopoly. I think it's because of the weak dollar and Schoellers weak distribution and we pay the price for the weak substitution. I guess the attitude is that PowerShield is better because it's cheaper.

I know Schoeller is a pain in the @ss to work with them, I had the same experience 10 years ago when I was doing backpack design. I pretty sure they still don't think their poop stinks but they do come out with some beautiful fabrics and it would be a shame if they alienate there clients whether it's with their attitude or just keeping the price too high.

I was hoping this fabric would become very widespread and thus the price would come way down, oh'well.

Does anyone know of any particular knock-off DrySkin fabrics other than from Polartec that's worthy? Anything similar to eVent in the soft shell world?

Cheers

In reply to spectator: gucci still use scoller. alot on trousers and gloves. i have just shelled out on some mammuut champ pants which are scholler for summer alpine.

In reply to Bruce Allmighty:

Mammut is also from Swiss. so that makes sense. I have some kit from Mammut and couldn't be any more happy. The champ pants is what I have but the older simple version without all the zippers and pockets which I prefer. I have some rip-stop teflon impregnated hiking shorts which are worth there weight in gold.

In reply to spectator:

As i said i am a huge fan of Shoeller (i love my Mammut Jacket) so agree that i would like to see more garments made from it, however slightly unfair to say Shoeller single handedly started Soft Shell as many people's first Soft Shell experience was the original Soft Shell jacket from Arc'teryx which was ofcoarse made in Powershield (most Malden reps wear one) and it was only after that that Shoeller started banting the name around of Soft Shell but lets not degrade into a Soft Shell Thread.

As for why use it from experience Powershield is not used becasue its cheaper (if that was the only reason then there are many far eastern copies that are far cheaper) from the garment designers i worked with Powershield was used because of personal preference not cost. Thats not to say some companies dont choose fabric purely on cost but most designers are very ignorant of cost implications of any given fabric choice!

As i said probably also much to do with the ease of getting hold of sample meterage as powershield is easy to get samples from but Shoeller isnt so more likely to use powershield to sample with and then it sticks right through to production.

As for knock off yes their are lots some good some crap but always comes down to personal preference and also brand labelling adds alot unless you are a big enough brand to carry a fabric like TNF Apex, or MHW Conduit then the safe money is to use polartec or shoeller!

In reply to spectator: only 4 usful pockets and zips to put round top of boots.

In reply to epik:

Thanks for the post! I am not completely sure on the history on the orgin of soft-shell so I won't dig myself into a hole, however I do have some spare meters of fabric I found in my storage from Schoeller (Only have a sample ID #) that's about 8+ years old. I used it for sampling on some of my backpack designs where the bags padding would contact with the body. Looking at it now, I would almost bet it's Dryskin but probably without all the treatments that it has now. I would use the fuzzy side facing out for the shoulder straps and back area, it was tough as nails, reduced sliding and was brillant at wicking away the moisture but I probably wouldn't use it today if I was still designing bags with all the new constuction technology now available plus the material was way too expensive for retail.

I agree when it comes to getting samples, Schoeller is such a pain and there documentaition is horrible. I could never figure what I really have and what its properties are compared to the other samples. Buying samples + shipping from them is very dear. Your right, suppliers who serviced me well with fabrics I was looking for would usually get my buisness.

I just figured DrySkin was a matured product and there is no more mystery about how to use it and the distribution chain was running smoothly, I guess not.

I guess I just prefer DrySkins hand more than Powershield.

Cheers

In reply to spectator: Just spent 4 days wading through snow up to thigh deep in the Pyrenees wearing a pair of Mammut Champ Pants and I can only say they rock. I think for that application Drysin is absolutely superb.

However, nothing beats a Buffulo top as the best soft shell top around (even if it's 8 years old)!