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Self-belaying with a Petzl Basic

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I was just looking through some of the advice on the Petzl website. They have a page on self-belaying which has confused me:

http://www.petzl.com/statique/sport/ENG/tech/html/belay10.html

The picture shows the ascender (in this case a Petzl Basic) hanging from the harness abseil loop by a single krab through the top hole of the device. This would be fine for climbing, as the rope would slide through the device nicely as you climb up, but doesn't look good for falling as the krab would swing around inside the abseil loop, potentially shock-loading it. Does anyone use it like this?

I've always clipped the ascender to my abseil loop (or through both the waist and legs loops) with a krab through the hole in the bottom of the device and then used a sling through the top hole and around my shoulders to keep the device in the centre of my chest. It seems safer, as it keeps everything in place, but I don't like being trussed up like a turkey when I'm climbing.

I'd be very interested to hear what other people think about Petzl's recommended method.

Sophie
stu 05 Dec 2002
In reply to Sophie Leatherbarrow:

dont start them on krabs thru the leg loop/wasit belt thing!!

ive used the device as per the web site and also similiar to your method eg chest strap. its pros and cons time. the chest harness method is a little "quicker in that there is little or no lag time if you slip but it is a little untidy. the web site method has the disadvantage of the whole set up becoming twisted and there is a little more of a dynamic load (poss. results?!) but does keep the rope a little further away from you (nice). however the text on the site does say " Remember when self-belaying
never to go above the attachment point." which is what happens in there method but it is the one they seem to be recommending!! all things weighed up id say its probably ok. but its only my opinion.
In reply to stu:

Thanks for that. I guess a lot of the time we just use a bit of common sense and do what we feel comfortable with, even if it is not what the manufacturers say we *must*. I might try Petzl's suggestion next time I'm stuck with no friends. But it does look a bit dodgy to me.....

Sophie
mikeL 06 Dec 2002
In reply to Sophie Leatherbarrow: Hi, if there is a possiblity of any level of shock loading running through the device (over just sitting down on it) you must clip through the two top holes. This is because tests have shown the bent alloy frames of the ascenders and the shunt can bend out of shape and release the rope. This can happen with forces as low as 1/5 the breaking strain of a alloy krab. Clipping through both the top holes stops the frame from bending and also help to stop the rope twisting near the cam. During the eco challenge a croll was being used and the plastic safety lock was damaged, the cam retracted far enough for the rope to slip out. This can not happen in your situation if you clip through the top hole.
stu 06 Dec 2002
In reply to Sophie Leatherbarrow:

meant to be a bit more informative for when you are "without friends". the shunt will do a fine job though again its technically not designed for the task in hand but if youre cowstail is fairly short you'll never get it to do what its done on tests (we use it loads on the ropes but some q? have been raised) - the troll rocker may be better.
mikeL 07 Dec 2002
In reply to Sophie Leatherbarrow:
> I was just looking through some of the advice on the Petzl website. They have a page on self-belaying which has confused me:
>
> http://www.petzl.com/statique/sport/ENG/tech/html/belay10.html
>
> The picture shows the ascender (in this case a Petzl Basic) hanging from the harness abseil loop by a single krab through the top hole of the device. This would be fine for climbing, as the rope would slide through the device nicely as you climb up, but doesn't look good for falling as the krab would swing around inside the abseil loop, potentially shock-loading it. Does anyone use it like this?
>
> I've always clipped the ascender to my abseil loop (or through both the waist and legs loops) with a krab through the hole in the bottom of the device and then used a sling through the top hole and around my shoulders to keep the device in the centre of my chest. It seems safer, as it keeps everything in place, but I don't like being trussed up like a turkey when I'm climbing.
>
> I'd be very interested to hear what other people think about Petzl's recommended method.
>
> Sophie

ref the Rocker, I have been using one for a while, a top bit of kit. Just remember if you don't use a second krab it will not lock before slipping, somtimes about a meter.
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