UKC

Just wondering what there is out there, around the size of a phantom as a solidgate. Is there anything? I'm wracking my brain but can't think of any...

I'm interested to know why you'd want them. Most people looking at Phantom sized biners want lightweight which would be a wiregate. Solid gates tend to be aimed more at sport climbing these days so weight isn't such an issue.

good comparison resource on this website, filters on the left of the page

https://weighmyrack.com/carabiner

Yeah there are some - saw some Micro QD's in a shop in Finale, can't remember what brand they were unfortunately.  They exist though!

Well yes that is certainly the case in the UK and US - but in europe where most people sport climb they tend to use solidgates more than wiregates. I suppose the point is that weight is weight. If you could have a light, good handling solid gate draw for mountain sport routes, or a hybrid one large biner one small why wouldn't you?

Kong Helium might be an option. At least they had solid gate screwlocks available as well as wiregates.

Perhaps Camp or Edelrid have something like that as well. And doesn’t Grivel have something rather small. 

Do you mean this horror show? Really small but somehow really heavy?

https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/c2-sport/f1-carabiners/p21-argon-rk

Yup. Argon, not Helium. 

The wiregates were light though. 

39g, ain't light for a small wiregate biner... not even an Dr. Bonati's dreamworld...

Although it's not exactly clear what weight each biner is. On one page the solidgate is 36, on the wiregate it shows 39 which is surely wrong... even at 36 it's not light...

Most likely the specs are wrong. I seem to recall that the wiregates were lighter than Phantoms and certainly the screwlock is lighter than Phantom screwlock. 

This is not measured, but when you compare them side by side. Also, as I don’t have those Argon wiregates anymore can’t even weigh ’em. 

Yeah OK - how did it handle? I mean it looks like a bag of spanners but looks aren't everything...

Felt really flimsy. Preferred Phantoms, which is What I know have. 

The locker works as intented, mainly use it for a prusik or on a long sling. 

Why are solid gates more aimed at sports?

I only use wiregates, and I'm puzzled as to why one type might be better than another.

Cheers

If the bolts are the not glue ins, then wiregates are rather prone at unclippin' from the bolt... not a really nice thing.

I can imagine it not a very nice thing. I can't understand how they can unclip though or why wire gates do but solid gates don't. I'll go and search youtube.

Cheers again.

It has to do with the karabiner spinning round and getting caught crossloading the gate with the inside edge of the bolt and it's make worse by a wiregate nose being somewhat pronounced at that point, more so than a solidgate. Also handling is nicer with a solid gate.

That can happen with both types though (end of the video below), it's more to do with not "seating" the crab when clipping in in the first place.

Video here https://dmmclimbing.com/Knowledge/May-2015/Carabiner-and-bolt-interaction

I prepared to stick with my wire gates, rather than buy two sets. I've never come across anyone clipping on the nose, in all the time I've been climbing. Not saying it doesn't happen, just quite rare, if you are diligent.

No, that’s carabiner hookup. It happens particularly with carabiners which have a flat upper basket and a pronounced nose or a notch. What we’re talking about is the entire biner flipping over so that its resting gate downwards at the opening of the gate. If you land on it the gate opens. 

The other situation (case I'm talking about) is when you rotate the QD around the bolt, wire gates get stuck on the actual bolt-stub/nut sticking out where as solidgates will not ('cause there is a small gap between the nut & the hanger where the thin wire of the wiregate will 'snag' where a a solid gate will just roll away).

as in the film at 4:24 ?

Yep - sorry - I missed that. Anyway, yes I know these are marginal differences, but the fact remains that Euro's seem to prefer solidgate biners. Don't ask me the whys and wherefores... I just very very rarely see europeans carrying wiregates. I suppose I am wondering from a professional point of view whether such a thing exists and if not why not... I do take the point that it's most likely to do with weight...

Maybe it's an Italian thing? Dunno... all I know is that there's still a place for solidgates because you see them on peoples racks...

It's not, I and numerous other friends here in the north prefer solid gates for sport (and still use wire gates for winter, trad and mountains).

My rack's a mix - just what I have to hand, I don't pick out one type or the other - for sport climbing which is what I do 99% of the time. However they are all huge chunky krabs.

Is that because you have massive lady pleasers? You know, having chunky krabs...

No worries, I wasn't having a go, simply trying to confirm things. I climb trad and sport and was wondering if I was missing something.

All of my QDs are wire gate, I started off with them and have simply carried on buying them because they work. It's not about saving weight, if I was that worried about that I'd shed a few kg off me, rather than gear.

I like the simplicity of a wire gate, only one moving part so less likely to f*ck up.

Anyhow, each to his own, interesting to find out about the unclipping bit, something else to look out for.

It's funny because I was more or less of the same opinion, but since I've been designing kit I've had to explore other types. I don't think I'd really used solid gate biners for 15 years until last year when I bought a Spirit and a couple of others just to give them a try, and it's got to be said, I can understand why people use them for sport - they are just a little bit easier and slicker to clip. I mean it's not going to make you climb 8a but they feel good in the hand. Anyway, al of this really is more of a general musing, and I just noticed that there doesn't seem to be anything like what I'm talking about and I'm wondering why. It's a bit like I thought the tiny Metolius biners were naff until I used them as a protection end of a biner with a larger full sized biner at the other end of a quickdraw - they're actually really comfortable to use and save a bit of weight.

Edelrid Pures are 1cm longer than the Phantoms. I have some on my sports draws for the bolt side, with a selection of random wiregates on the rope side, but nothing smaller.

CB