UKC

Stop obsessing about fabrics (easy marketing) and concentrate on fit. I don't necessarily mean made to measure, but just cut and made with a bit more insight than a rectangle.

You might think this is a bunch of poncy tosh, but try a well made piece of clothing and I think you'll change you're mind. Not only is more comfortable for movement, but warmer and I'd suggested better fitting clothes dry better than loose baggy ones too.

Examples:

High waisted trousers. Trousers with a good high waist with a split back waistband are a joy to wear - they don't slide down, gape at the small of your back, with braces of course.

French-bearers. Simple idea - have a clasp and a button or two buttons at the fly. Stops the waistband getting pulled tight and deforming/ cutting in.

Back-darts in non-stretch jackets. Every single jacket I have - no matter how well it fits everywhere else on my body - flaps around at the small of my back. Bunches uncomfortable under a pack or harness, flaps in the wind. Cold kidneys. Add 3 minutes sewing time chucking a couple of darts in and job done.

To give then credit, outdoor gear manufacturers have done wonders with sleeve design, and they are battling the mores of the pub-going dog walkers who make up their most profitable customers.

In reply to iksander: It would also help it they realised that climbers and mountaineers are a damn sight thinner than the population average!

I understand why it is hard to get casual trousers in a 28"/33" but you would have thought it wouldn't be a problem with specialist sports clothing aimed at committed climbers and mountaineers who by definition will be extremely fit, active and with a much lower percentage body fat than the general population.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:


I'd have thought 28" waist and 33" leg is a fairly unusual combination regardless of fitness. You're looking at manfacturers producing almost bespoke clothing for a small number of people. The pub going dog walker keeps firms like Rab in business.

In reply to Ridge:

Yes but do all dog walkers have 34 inch legs? Why they only produce one leg size and them expect you to pay £90 for clothes that wont fit is beyond me.

In reply to iksander:
Num Num could do with a codpiece in his Ronhills to nestle his pleasure pole in and allow the ladies to better admire it's tantalizing possibilities. Otherwise it all just hangs down one leg.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer: Not in technical clothing, but last time I looked for jeans I found loads of 28/33 ones, albeit in skinny fit for the emaciated emo crowd. Getting 28/28 on the other hand was an arse.

In general I found few manufactures have sizes going small enough, and don't do the variety of clothing in kids sizes for me to exploit that option ( due to a joke from my other half's father I discovered I fit age 12-13 tshirts quite well!)

In reply to Liam M: I got a air of black trousers from H&M that made it look like I was smuggling a mattesons! needless to say they went straight back.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
I prefer that they also cater for the fit, active, 15st wobblebottom like myself.

In reply to iksander: I had a tailor put darts in my Rab VR smock. Fitted much better and cost very little.

In reply to iksander:

I agree. I have several garments custom made from beyondclothing.com Every time I put the pants on it reminds me that all of my other outdoor pants don't fit properly, regardless of brand or cost. Shame the Beyond lines are so limited and have a wait time. Their jackets also fit well, better and cheaper than Arcteryx, which is the next best fit, but not as well designed or sexy looking. I hate having jackets pull across the back and shoulders when I'm moving (Rab) or being short in the arms but flappy around the waist (Patagonia). Mammut used to be quite good but I think they're one company whose quality has noticeably suffered after moving production to Asia. Regular pant inseam lengths are irrelevant once you put a climbing harness on.

I've had darts put in shirts (46" chest, 34" waist) as most are too blousy. Darts in a shell garment might affect drainage down the back and waterproofness? Or not. But I also have shirts without darts that are shaped by trimming along the side seams for a tapered fit. I've had designers tell me this won't work, so I just went to a tailor and had it done for $20 and it turned out great.

Crux made a point in their marketing that their garments were very slim fit and made for climbers and wouldn't fit everyone, but TBH I've been a bit nonplussed by my Flak jacket and pants. The pants were supposed to be 35" inseam or so in an XL but in fact measure 33.5" and have less articulation in their design that some other equally $$ brands. The jacket is nice and wide across the shoulders but also baggy in the arms (I don't have skinny arms) and absurdly narrow around the neck, limiting what helmet I can wear (without choking). So they're trying, I think, but they still haven't got it.

In reply to iksander: I find it hard to find 30" waist and 28" inside leg (montane fit me perfectatly as they have this size), but most outdoor manufacturers od seem to cater for the 30" - 34" waist with an inside leg of either normal or long....

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

By contrast, I find that clothing manufacturers in general (outdoors or otherwise) seem to think that people are either tall and skinny or short and fat, but not the other combinations. 38" waist, 35" leg tends to be a pain to get.

Neil

In reply to Boulderdash86: I have a similar problem with trouser sizes, Rab and Craghoppers seem to be the best fit for me in the short leg versions.

Definitely would like to see some 'slim fit' tops out there, always have a few extra inches around the middle to tuck into trousers or harnesses. Berghaus extrem range seem to be good for that but very few others seem to have slimmer waists than chests.

In reply to Boulderdash86:

Another short arse with the same sizing, craghoppers are my walking trousers as I can not find technical trousers that will fit with my short legs and I can not see how to take most of them up that I come across

In reply to iksander:

I think the rectangle comment is a bit harsh; most well-cut jackets are a bit better tailored than that, using multiple, shaped panels.

I wouldn't let a suit tailor anywhere near an outdoor clothing item, as a suit a very, very poor basis for active clothing; the armscye, for instance, allows almost no arm raise, and arms must be held by one's side.

Any bespoke item should be better-fitting than an off-the-peg item, provided the method for converting body measurements to pattern blocks is good.

And, of course, we're all different shapes and sizes, so we really shouldn't expect every item from every manufacturer to fit us all perfectly.

Having said all that, the things that separate high-end manufacturers from mediocre manufacturers are the attention to detail, and the care taken with the design, and the evaluation and refinement of the design to ensure that all the features work.

In reply to captain paranoia:

That's because most suits are cut with a very low armscye, so as to fit more people. Sinatra famously had his suits tailored to allow him to move, jump and dance freely on film. With bespoke you can get it cut however you want.

In reply to iksander:


Can you think of a outdoor clothing manufacturer who does obsess about fit?

Anyone?

In reply to iksander: Whilst I agree with the sentiments about well cut clothing, as a pub-going dog walker and sometime climber I have to point out that I'm more likely to use my "outdoor" clothes for the former activity.
Mostly because I walk my dog and go out drinking in all weather, but I tend to wait for the sun to crank in style - in charity shop flares and a bandana.

In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC: I find mountain equipment to be a great fit.

In reply to Flashy:

Suits are cut with a low armscye because that results in a very 'smooth' line to the suit, with no underarm bunching. For the uses a suit is generally put to, that's fine; it's meant to look smart, not to allow the wearer to go climbing...

If you go bespoke, yes, you should be able to get just what you want, depending on the level of bespoke you choose. BeyondClothing, for instance, will create a body block to their standard pattern, based on your body measurements, but I don't think they allow a fully bespoke service; bit tricky unless you can pop in for a fitting. And then it assumes that a bespoke tailor knows how to cut an active armscye or other features; I'd suspect that a suit tailor simply wouldn't know how.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Ok, good point.


Well, that's not bespoke at all, that's MTM which is a different thing.


Weeell, fair enough, but you can probably discount 'bespoke tailors' who don't know how to create a pattern or cut all parts of a suit. I get what you're saying in that quite a lot of tailor may not know how, but a proper bespoke guy should.