UKC

Aldi are selling Merino Wool tops for £9.99

http://www.aldi-stores.co.uk/specials_01_11/offers_nav.htm

Is merino wool as good as people claim?

In reply to chris tan:

yes it is. There are various grades of merino the finer the better and you dont want a wool-synthetic blend but they sound like a bargain if theyre 100 percent wool in contact with your skin. washing might present a few minor problems but merino doesnt need washed often and the more expensive tops can be machine washed. These might be machine washable too- io dont know.

In reply to chris tan: Merino is the dogs danglies, mutts nuts, coulies du chien!

In reply to chris tan:

I've had some good stuff and bad stuff from Aldi so will probably buy one of these.

Merino wool, I have a pair of Smartwool socks and a pair of Trekwool (Tekwool, ??!), both made from Merino wool. I wholeheartedly think they are better socks than anything I've tried before. Is it the wool or the quality design/shape/fit of the sock? I think its the wool.

In reply to chris tan:

I wish I wasn't too drunk to drive, otherwise I'd go over Aldi and pick one up. Hope there are still some left on Tuesday.

In reply to Alison Bond:

You have time to sober up! Unless you're on a mega-binge! They won't be on sale until tomorrow morning.

In reply to chris tan:

ok, i'll get one then... ta.

Which aldi you going to? I can choose between Wythenshawe or Handforth

In reply to Alison Bond:

May try Oldham, on the way into work; off to play in the Peak for Easter, then it's even more scary Elbsandstein time! Eeeeek!

In reply to chris tan: I've emailed my Mum and Dad with orders for one of them to go to Kidderminster Aldi and buy me one. No Aldis in Finland yet - boo hoo. Or TKmaxx for dirt cheap patagonia bit and bobs either...

In reply to TobyA:

I've popped into TK Max a few times. Never seen any of this elusive patagonia stuff.

In reply to TobyA: Kidderminster, now there's a town full of Neds!!

In reply to d hunter:

Why not? My wool/synthetic Hely top is excellent and I can't fault it.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

because pure merino is better. really.

In reply to mat s: When I was last in the UK I saw loads of Patagonia stuff in different TKmaxxs around the UK: funny sizes or less desirable models maybe but still plenty of things at less than half price. My missus stopped me from buying much. I did get a pair of Extremities GTX mountain mits for a tenner instead of 75 which seemed a good deal.

In reply to d hunter:
In what way? (I'm not doubting you, but I was about to buy another Hely and don't want to spend by cash on something 2nd rate!)

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

wool is better at transmitting moisture than synthetic as it has a slower rate of transmission through the fibres which means your outer layers rate of transmission doesnt get overloaded as badly.

having said that if you are really really sweaty then pure synthetic might be better but youd better make sure your outer layers are super breathable.
the helly stuff seems good but merino is better for most folk.

In reply to d hunter:

and merino doesnt smell.

In reply to d hunter:

and it's so nice and soft

In reply to d hunter:
I wore my Merino Hely for a week without it smelling. Still, at £9.99 from Aldi that's less than half the press of a new Hely

In reply to chris tan:
Not on sale until the 8th of April according to the info. at the top of the web-page

In reply to d hunter:
merino and silk mix is very good. mainstream winter undies in Europe.

as a mid layer - looks like a cheap replacement for the lambswool sweaters you can get from the Edinburgh wollen mill - thay are pretty good, can be worn singly or doubly depending on weather

In reply to chris tan: trekking poles and compass as well.

In reply to michaelw:

except silk is not as easy-care as eg icebreaker or smartwool merino

wool isnt so good for midwear as it will hold too much moisture and become quite heavy. this isnt such a problem in the thin thermals.

In reply to michaelw:

I bought one of their supplex shirts last year! Easy care, hard wearing, has side vents... Excellent value!

In reply to d hunter:

Earlier you said that

Now correct me if I'm wrong but these two statements seem totally contradictory. I hope I'm not being pedantic, but you can't have it both ways, surely. It is either better and is good in base layers AND mid layers or it isn't, in which case synthetic is better in both cases ??

Now I have an Icebreaker thermal base layer and I DO really like it and rate it for warmth. However, I genuinely believe it does not wick as well as a bog standard Lowe Alpine DryFlo.

It'd be great if some one could explain this as I'm genuinely baffled.

I also dont believe that SmartWool stuff lasts very long. A pair of LIght Hiker socks has worn through in very little time, with very very little use. I'm not especially impressed, though I'll concede they are nice in use when new !

In reply to Graham B: I'd agree about the smartwool socks, I bought a pair of expedition ones for winter climbing and they are as baggy as MC Hammers pants after the second day!

In reply to Graham B:

wool is more efficient at keeping the moisture off your skin than synthetic. if i have time this evening ill post to explain why

In reply to Graham B:

I have the same cynicism, and look forward to the reply (but am pretty tempted at a tenner regardless!).

In reply to Graham B:

Wool is a hollow fibre and sucks the moisture up like a straw. This means that in a thermal, the moisture is taken off your skin but the rate of transmission of that moisture through the fabric is slower than in a synthatic fibre (which cannot by its nature absorb any moisture). Thus wicking by synthetics is very fast. This is a problem if your outer layers cannot cope with the high rate of transmission (very likely as its your body heat that drives the moisture out). If your systems rate of transfer is exceeded, then the sweat will wick straight back through a synthetic top onto your skin.

The problem with wool midlayers is that your body heat isn't pushing the moisture through as effectively. Also because they're thicker they absorb more moisture and so become heavier than one might wish.

If the above is still unclear, I'll try again...



Smartwool had a problem with some light hikers. Return them and they'll be replaced.

Wool won't last as long as synthetics But I've had two years out of my Smartwool socks and thermals now and they're fine. The mountaineer smartwools are very big for their alleged sizing though. They are meant to be sorting this out.

In reply to Dave Hunter:

But surely this boils down to conservation of mass flow ? That is, what goes in one end comes out of the other - so theres little point in having a very fast pick up rate from the hollow wool if it cant pump it through the layer quickly enough.
Or have I just answered my own question in that there's a critical thickness where the rate of transmission becomes more important / dominant than the rate that its picking up from one's skin ? At this point you need to switch to something with a faster transmission. If this is the case I understand and it explains one of your reasons for thicker wool layers dont work effectively.

Sorry, not trying to be pedantic, but just trying to get to the bottom of this with my befuddled brain.


Ok, thanks. I will do that.

In reply to Graham B:

I think the point is that the pick up rate is similar but because the transmission rate is slower in wool your skin will stay drier when active as your outer (less breathable) layers have a slower rate of transmission to deal with.

It seems quite hard for me to explain this, sorry.

There does seem to be a critical thickness for wool, which is why I think thin thermals work but thicker layers will tend to hold too much moisture. The exception is socks as the sweat struggles to escape your boot. Here, sock absorbancy is key so thin merino liners combined with thick merino outers will produce best results, especially if your feet are hot and sweaty or cold and clammy.

In reply to Dave Hunter:
God this is getting very train-spotter-esque...

>I think the point is that the pick up rate is similar but because the transmission rate is slower in wool your skin will stay drier when active as your outer (less breathable) layers have a slower rate of transmission to deal with.

I can understand how this might be the case : The wool layer effectively limiting the rate that moisture is being passed through to the outer layers. But this means that its LESS breathable and overall LESS wicking. I'm now very confused.

In reply to Graham B:

but this is an advantage in base layers. breathability isnt restricted because its only the hollow fibre which draws the moisture. the gaps between the fibre will not hold moisture- exactly like a synthetic

In reply to d hunter:

So are they more or less breathable than synthetics ?

In reply to Graham B:

Depends on the thickness (sorry to be pedantic but you started it ).

My thin merino thermal feels as breathable as a lightweight capilene thermal, but is less clammy against the skin (especially the back).

Obviously your own physiology will affect how different materials feel.

Horrendously sweaty people, such as my colleague the esteemed Mr Wood seem to be better with pure synthetics.

More normal (in the sweating sense) folk seem better with merino wool.

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:

And moisture management is the thing to get right, rather than 'breathability'.

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:

But you still haven't given a definitive answer, Dave!

If 'breathability' is defined as the rate at which a fabric transports moisture away from you then this has to be a material property and surely is not a function of physiology, as you say. Whether or not this moisture is forced back in by a non-ideal clothing system / combination is another matter.

However, as you rightly point out it is the overall moisture management that is the key, not so much the actual 'breathability' of 'wickability' of the base layer.

I like wool base layers. I use one. But I also like and continue to use (and buy) synthetics. There's quite a bit of misunderstanding out there about how this works, which is not helped by the pseudo-science put out by the marketing of these products.

ps I actually dont think any of this is pedantic. If I can't understand it, as an engineer who uses heat + flow equations on a daily basis, then there has to be an awful lot of people out there who also dont understand it.

In reply to Graham B:

I think that as rate of transmission is affected by how much heat you are pumping out then physiology does play a part

we are desperately busy now but Ill get back to you this eve

In reply to chris tan: So has anyone managed to get hold of one of these yet? Or are they not that good... was thinking about popping in to Aldi on the way home this evening if they are any good..

In reply to chris tan: Hi, I bought one. I havent used merino wool clothing before, but it does seem to fit the bill with regards to the comments made on this thread.... i.e It is made of 100% Merino wool, its a very fine/thin layer, cool hand washable.

Obviously havent used it for any outdoor use yet, but it does look like a high quality garment, & well worth £10 I reckon.

RS

In reply to FunkyNick:

Have completely bolloxed it up! Won't be able to get to an Aldi until Monday & they're not open!!!! Then I'll be away for a few weeks. Looks like I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for next year as Aldi usually do a repeat of their more popular loss-leaders.

BTW just noticed the coolmax T-shirts for £4.99!! IMO as good as dry-flo.

I got a Merino wool top today a bit thicker than the moon tops however will do for a cold day in the peaks.

In reply to chris tan: I've just bought one. Seem good quality. They even have thumb loops to keep your sleeves down when it's cold. Had a choice of colours and zipped or round neck. Look good value for £10.

In reply to chris tan: I've just bought one. It seems good value and although not as thin as an icebreaker base layer is comfy against the skin.
I will be road testing it in Scotland next week.
If it disappoints then at a tenner it'll do for town.

In reply to chris tan:
£1.99 compasses - adventure on a string!

In reply to Dave Hunter & Graham B:

I suspect that the reason Merino seems to provide a 'drier environment' is because the fibre itself absorbs water, about 1/3 of its weight. Synthetics (esp. polyester) absorb almost no water. So, in moments of peak sweating, the wool absorbs water, giving off heat. In later, less active periods, this water is then evaporated from the fibre. Both merino and synthetics will absorb water into the structure of the fabric by capillary action, but the additional absorption in merino provides a greater 'sink' capacity than synthetics, so is able to cope better with peak demand. Possibly.

Modern synthetics use complex extrusion shapes to provide channels on the surface of the fibre (rather than simply having a circular cross-section), which are intended to assist wicking by capillary action, and provide additional sinking capacity similar to merino.

Some pretty pictures of a merino wool fibre at:

http://www.icebreakernz.com/about/merino_miracle.asp

and some dubious explanation about why merino is so great.

In reply to captain paranoia:

'I suspect that the reason Merino seems to provide a 'drier environment' is because the fibre itself absorbs water, about 1/3 of its weight. Synthetics (esp. polyester) absorb almost no water. So, in moments of peak sweating, the wool absorbs water, giving off heat. In later, less active periods, this water is then evaporated from the fibre. Both merino and synthetics will absorb water into the structure of the fabric by capillary action, but the additional absorption in merino provides a greater 'sink' capacity than synthetics, so is able to cope better with peak demand. Possibly. '

That seems to be what I was struggling to say but with more detail and greater clarity. Ta.


There is no doubt in my mind that the reason people moved away from wool was because of issues with skin irritation, the fact that wooly jumpers became much heavier when wet and that care was an issue.

The quality merino wool now available will not irritate your skin (unless you have a genuine allergic reaction to wool) and is very easy-care (you just chuck it in a warm wash). As long as you wear a thin thermal, the weight gain is insignificant.

There is still the issue that certain very sweaty types seem better off in high quality synthetic, and I'm not sure why that should be (myself and Woody wear the same outer layers, differing only in our thermal preference. He is much sweatier than me tho).

There is no question that I stay drier (and hence more comfortable) whilst wearing merino thermals (and socks).

One problem with merino is that its quite pricey (though Aldi seem to be remedying that temporarily). But I've only got one set of merino thermals and that seems to be enough...

Please also note that Rock+Run, who I 'work' for don't sell merino thermals so I'm not trying some obscure promotion here. (to be fair we'll have a small selection come October but that's a long way off). I think that most folk would be better off in merino though.

Kirkpatrick did a good article in High not so long ago about merino wool.

In reply to Dave Hunter:

I think Captain's explanation is as close as I've yet come to a convincing explanation. I am not at all convinced by SmartWool's and Icebreaker's explanations, as far as I've seen them. Thanks CP.


He did, and I read it. But it didn't really explain why it works or why it was so good. At least not that I remember it.

It IS good stuff. It does keep me warm and dry and is not generally clammy (unless working very very hard). It is also somehow a real cosy moral booster in a way sythetics are not. I dont know how to explain this - maybe the one I have just really fits me well, with long sleeves... something I often have a problem with (I'm a bit of a gibbon). BUT the amount of crappy explanations I've heard & read make me wonder if I'm just being sucked in. THe expense is very off-putting too.

In reply to Graham B:

which is fair enough. Except have you heard any better explanations of how synthetics work and why they might be better?

Personally I think the fact that it feels drier in use and doesn't smell justify the premium price tag.

In reply to Dave Hunter:

I have followed the discussions on the merits of wool and then synthetic base layers for over 20 years with people saying one is best then another.
George Steel would have converted me to synthetic base layers 15 years ago if they had been cheaper. I stuck with my old wollen shirt and sometimes anM+S or Damart thermal under it.

If you go back over the last hundred years people have advocated thin wool pullovers in layers rather than one layer. did they have it right all the time?

One thing that has not been said, wool is the warmest thing to put on wet as it soon insulates and warms you.

In reply to sutty:
Well marks and sparks lambswool sweaters I've used in the Alps without exception, 2 in the early morning if it's cold and progressively removed or put back on as conditions changed. Slept on the W Flank of the Eiger during a thunderstorm in them too - they could have paid me to advertise.

Anyway, I picked up 3 of these from Aldi on Thursday and tried them at the weekend in the Cuillin and I can say that they work incredibly well. thanks for the original tip folks

In reply to Dave Hunter & Graham B:

My hypothesis is based purely on what others have said, and the fundamental difference in the behaviour of the basic fibres. Having now bought one of these Aldi shirts, I can give it a go myself...

I'd be interested to see how the Aldi top compares with the more expensive offerings, in terms of construction. I was expecting a more felted construction, but the top uses a fairly open knit with, admittedly, quite a high stitch/in count. Must go and fondle some expensive Merino somewhere...

Of the many synthetic base layers I've tried, I think my favourite is North Cape's Rhovyl Therm, which is a heavier weight fabric than the usual CoolMax/DryFlo, etc. and about the same weight as the Merino wool top. It gives me the cosy warm feeling that Graham and sutty talk about.

I suspect that Dave is right about the itching and weight issues; given the cost of high quality, non-itchy wools in the past, they were too expensive, and so cotton was the cheap alternative. And synthetics are clearly better than cotton. I'm not sure how lightweight a knit was possible - I seem to remember being impressed by the many, fine layers found on Mallory's body. Time for a visit to a clothing/textiles museum for some research, methinks...

In reply to captain paranoia:
they go more felty after washing/rucsac pressure.

HAND WASH only! I managed to shrink mine using a machine wash that was supposed to emulate handwashing! Might have to give it to the wife

Did you get the 70s stripey cream or a darker one?

In reply to chris tan: Does anyone know if they are still doing the offer?

If so will pop in at lunchtime.

In reply to TobyA:
The TK Maxx in Handforth Dean has quite a bit of Patagonia Kit, and also they had quite a lot of Cheap Bridgedale socks for £3! Bargain....

In reply to Anonymous:
the offers usually last a week.

Penrith had only S,XS and XL left yesterday