UKC

Tucked in an obscure quarter between Ben Klibreck and the startling expanse of the Flow Country, these hills (aka Ben Armine) are some of the most remote in the far north. They don't look much from a distance - and distance is an abiding feature hereabouts - but prove an enjoyable round in a landscape of lochs, peat hags and mind-cleansing emptiness. For those counting Grahams, Creag Mhor & Creag a' Choire Ghlais earn you two ticks, but they're equally worthy if you're just out for the heck of it. Easy access by track makes this a surprisingly viable day trip, but only one to contemplate by bike (it needn't be anything posh: I was fine on a rust bucket stuck in one gear). It's 26km by bike and 16km on foot, with a combined time of 7:30 - 9:00 hours at a reasonably relaxed pace.

26.10 miles, 42 km, 1,100m ascent, 2:30 – 6 hours. Helmsdale

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In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

We did these in between 1st and last trains. Fine except we had to run some of it after someone misread the train times.

And then the train ended up 30mins late!

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Thank you for not perpetuating the 21st century myth that Creag Mhor is not Ben Armine

lovely group of hills in prime bikepacking country

In reply to Fat Bumbly 2.0:

I struggled with that double negative for a sec! So, as I understand it, Ben Armine refers to the whole lot. Would you go along with that?

Really interesting part of the world round there, feel like I've barely scratched the surface. One area where a bike would clearly beat feet for long journeys - big open spaces and loads of tracks... 

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Correct.

Nothing to see here, move along please.

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Lots to see! Lots of not very much - in a very good way. 

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

…..let’s leave the few quiet corners of the Highlands unsullied by internet, forum and guide-book style promotion.

Put down your pen and lense, nothing to see here, move along please.

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

I doubt Dan's article will make much difference.

Plus its obviously in the smc Grahams book and various others.

In reply to Mike-W-99:

So they said about the Ferry Pools, and furthermore you are assuming the only places of interest in this corner are the hills.

20th Century responsible tourism; Take only photos, leave only footprints.

21st Century responsible tourism; Try not to leave footprints and should you take photos do so for memories only.

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

At this stage, for most hidden gems in the north, it's probably more a case of use it, love it, and encourage other people to value and visit it too, or lose it to energy development. 

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Ben Armine as the next Fairy Pools? I can't quite see it.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

No, that’s sophistry. We know that the more people who go, the more trash that follows, and what we treasure in wild, remote solitude becomes absent.

For decades guidebook writers, Mountaineering representatives, and the general outdoor industry have been saying it’s the few that cause the problems, all that we need is education. Yet that education is never achieved and the promotion continues unabated, with the inevitable degradation of the environment and the wild and remote solitude we treasure.

We need some introspective thought about whether the ‘industry’ is as much a problem as ‘the few’.

Rant over.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Whenever I see or hear of Ben Armine I find myself singing it to the tune of Prince Charming by Adam Ant. 

Is that just me? Probably not now...

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Ben Armine is going to get swamped by crowds and trash? Doesn't seem likely however many websites write about it. It takes a lot of effort to get to. As do most places in the hills. Solitude is not hard to find.

The real problem areas in recent times seem to be the ones that blow up on social media, Fairy Pools, Lost Valley, or the weird tourism phenomena like NC500. Chances are it'll be somewhere different next year or the year after - it's a fad thing that I'm not sure anyone really understands. And a lot of the issue when a place is mobbed must stem from inadequate infrastructure to cope with the sudden influx - how that's addressed is moot.

Then yes, you have thoughtless individuals. And absolutely, the trash chuckers need educating. Governments have neglected this for decades. There's a cultural element too, and that's not a quick fix. Look at any urban park, pavement or popular bit of countryside in Britain compared to places like Switzerland. Which is going to be cleaner? Large numbers of people do not of necessity equate to piles of rubbish. Personal responsibility and care for your environment are ways of thinking that can be fostered and encouraged. That's a bigger job than one small specialist media niche can take on alone - though we can and hopefully do play a role, we are well placed to. 

Do you or I have any more right to know about and visit wild places than anyone else? What info should we consider withholding, and who are we keeping it from? I'm not sure I could get behind that sort of notion.

Where did you hear about all these hills? Do you ever read and benefit from guidebooks and mags, or was the knowledge passed down to you in secretive whispers by some wizened old guy beside a bothy fire (before the MBA ruined it all by publishing the grid references)? Or perhaps we should blame the OS, putting all that geography in easy reach of just anyone.

There's also a certain irony in you lambasting the outdoor industry on a website that exists free for you to use thanks to that industry, and that's devoted to encouraging people to have rewarding experiences in the outdoors - and, yes, to value and protect the places they go.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

If you promote them, do you really value them; discuss ?

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

Where do you find out about stuff to do? 

In reply to DaveHK:

Have never used a walking guide, knew of good hills to do by reputation. Just got the OS maps and planned from them, that ridge looks good, that Corrie could be impressive. Then looked from one horizon to the next when out on the hill.  Much the same for scrambling. Have done all the munros, tops, most corbetts and many ‘lessers’ by that method, also dozens if not hundreds of Skye scrambles, and many esoteric bits of rock around the NW highlands.

But we aren’t discussing denying access, we are discussing promotion. Is promotion a good thing, can it ever be a good thing?

Is there a case that those whom go and have done so by their own efforts rather than been encouraged or spoon fed,  value more and by being self selecting and less in number are more sustainable.

Dans point about the MBA grid references mis-represents the true situation. Bothy locations haven’t been secret for over Thirty years. The handbook gave the building name and OS sheet numbers in the early 1990s (and probably before) so it were relatively easy to find, they weren’t secret, but they weren’t promoted. But you had to make an effort.

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

I'm struggling to see pieces like this as promotion.

In reply to ScraggyGoat:

What about climbing or visiting cities or any of the multitude of things that are difficult to do without some guidance from those who went before?

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Ah Ben Armine nice to see other folk enjoying it, spent a lot of up there doing quadrats and mapping hags and gullies. Great views over the Flows and nice patches of dwarf birch in one of the corries.