UKC

Hi all,

Every so often I take my mum camping on the hills and this year I'd like to show her the darkest of dark skies.  I'm hoping the ukc hive mind can help me with advice on:

Location - I live in South Wales so was thinking of going somewhere near Drygarn Fawr but open to other suggestions 

Altitude - I believe you have less chance of haze the higher you are?

Forecasting - what forecast should we be using to reduce the chances of travelling and being blocked by haze or fog? and I'm assuming it would be better to go in winter rather than summer..

Thanks in advance for any help

Not familiar with Drygarn Fawr but you should be able to find online maps which show how it scores on the Bortle Scale, a measure used to indicate clear skies. 

Edit: it seems there are plenty of maps showing areas of least light pollution even though they don't actually use the Bortle Scale.. And having looked up the location of your mountain, the fact that it lies fairly close to the Elan Valley Dark Skies Park is a good sign.

I use Clear Outside before I plan to do any astrophotography (https://clearoutside.com/forecast/53.74/-2.01) it's pretty accurate. You can also get an astronomy seeing forecast from Meteoblue.

Clear skies, versus decent seeing conditions are not the same thing. But, if you want the best chance - get some where dark, hope for clear skies, lights off (for at least 20 mins, longer if you're older) to give the eyes time to adapt.

Bring a nice seat you can rest your head on, a pair of binoculars helps - but damn, it's amazing when you get a good night.

My first thought was that 'optimum conditions' for one activity - being inside a tent, specifically - would be sub-optimal for the other.

That's probably not much help.

Merry Christmas, nevertheless! 

I always smile wryly when I read that one of the signs of being in a Bortle category one zone is that even looking at Jupiter with the naked eye will incapacitate your vision for a few minutes.  And in spite of all the claims about M31 being an easy naked eye find on a dark night, I've only ever managed it unaided once, in Galloway. Probably an age related thing.

And remember, good clear sky usually mean it's going to be cold. Colder than you expect.

It also probably worth balancing expectation and experience with marginal gains (so to speak). For someone who hasn't seen a dark sky, the impact can be pretty immediate. My first experience was coming out of a pub in Boot Looking up and going "Wow!" The Milky Way seemed bright enough to read by even without much dark adaption. All the wow-factor and none of the freezing that I've put up with since.

Otherwise I concur with the advice: Elan valley, Clear Outside and Meteoblue. Further afield I like the summit of Mynydd Mawr at the tip of the Llyn peninsular (just about hits Bortle 2). To get better than that you're heading up to the NW of Scotland (e.g., west coast of Harris). I find this (https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=7.02&lat=53.0447&lon=-3.45...) map to the most useful for light pollution. That data is a bit old, but it's better that the later maps which don't account as well for less than perfectly clear air mass.

I live in Bortle 5, the concept of dark is far, far beyond my local region for me Though many locals still like to walk around with phone lights engaged... on lit roads *sigh* Though you can make out the smudge that is M31 from here when the moon is down and after the LEDs have dimmed on the streetlights.

Lucky that we have family to visit in a dark sky site in the ROI every now and again. One of those places you can just look up and go WOW.  Though if anything they have worse luck than we do with cloud in W.Yorks. 

Thankyou so much everyone: really great advice, just what I was hoping for.  Love the name 'bortle' by the way!

Will start off with Drygarn Fawr but Mynydd Mawr on the Lleyn looks like a great option for a future trip...

If you can travel a little and she can walk a bit, there are several areas of "The Green Desert" that'd be suitable 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Wales

Drygarn Fawr's a terrific spot just for views regardless of the stargazing! Relatively easy walk up from either Abergwesyn (though an easy ford to wade through just off the road), or from Rhiwnant and the Rhiwnant itself has some super little wildcamping spots along it for valleys campers!