UKC

We have a 15 week old "sprocker" puppy and we are very worried, about twice a day he goes crazy, for about 3 mins he runs around the room like crazy, jumps on anyone in his way and bites them, his eyes are glazed, he is just "totally out of it" his eyes are as if he is not focussing on anything itslike jekyle and hyde, any advice.  He is not normally aggresive, he chews alot, which is to be expected as he is teething

any advice?

thanks

arthur

Have you tried reasoning with him?

It's quite normal for dogs to have the zoomies or a mad 5 minutes, but I'm not sure about biting or eyes glazed over.  That sounds worrying to me.   Maybe phone the vet and ask them?  

I'd probably open the door and send him into the garden to run around rather than indoors.  

You could try yelping loudly if he bites you.  I believe that is what would normally happen in a litter of puppies.  

Is he having enough exercise?

Does he know the command 'no'?

https://www.thelabradorsite.com/dog-zoomies/

As was said above, the zoomies is totally normal but the dog still needs to understand what is acceptable behaviour even when they're hyped up. Running around, Even barking to relieve the energy is fine. Jumping UK and biting is not. 

Grab him by the scruff,hhead to the floor and say 'no'. Let him go and continue as normal- Reward good behaviours with games of chase or tug or ball or whatever he likes, especially while hyped up. Repeat until the poor behaviour stops. It's really simple, correct the bad and reinforce the good. 

The thing that concerns me is the way the pup is described as zoning out completely, rather than just being aggressive due to excitement.

Might be worth the OP videoing it when it occurs and talking to a vet. 'Spaniel rage' isn't common, but it does exist and needs discounting rather than assuming the dog just needs training.

Our pup (a border collie) used to get the zoomies at around 7pm every night, just go wild. So at 6:55 I used to take him out for a walk and let him off to use up that energy. At 26 weeks we still take him out around the same time but the zoomies are less (but still happen). He used to bite but we would go "Owch" really high pitch and walk out the room (it is important no-one interacts with him) for a minute. Bran doesn't bite us but he will mouth us, much easier now he has lost his needle like puppy teeth. 

Also I would suggest puppy training, if you want to do it remotely (or happen to be based in South Wales) I would recommend K9 Train Time in Newport (but he does online too)

There is something called 'spaniel rage', a friend's dog had to be put down in the end because of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_syndrome

All my dogs have been like that. ‘Mad hour’.

Try more exercise but it’s important not to overdo it.

They grow out of it in approx 3 years.

Have a chat with your vets, preferably with some video of the behaviour for them to judge. Sounds more like a lack of manners than aggression, but you need to understand how to communicate what you want the dog to do during these episodes and in between. His experiences now will make him the dog he will grow up to be. Not all vets major in dog behaviour, but there is often someone in the practice who can help. Seeing a behaviourist in 6 months will be pointless, you need to grasp the nettle.

Good luck.

Totally agree.  Video is a good idea. 

Yeah good point. Being completely out of it isn't normal. But could just youthful exuberance and poor control be misinterpreted as being out of it? Especially if the dog is normally pretty good? 

Are they aggressive, or playful bites? 

What age did you collect him? puppies communicate by gently biting each other sadly they have far tougher skin than we do. I would guess that he's just super excited.  

Don't let him ever bite you, when he does make a high pitch ouch. This is what other puppies would do if he's been too rough. Also, have a favourite toy that you can try and distract him and encourage him to bite instead. 

Keep working at it, hopefully it's a phase he will slowly grow out of. 

You have a mad dog so it will do mad things.

Wait till it eats your house apart.

I read that as dog zombie's .  

Thought to myself ,wtf !

With the eyes glazed and all that. .

Zoomies yes.  They go bonkers.

Maybe have chat to your breeder. Have any of his litter mates displayed similar behaviour?

Absolutely this. Any reputable breeder will be keen to help with advice/reassurance, as appropriate.

I’ve seen this, a spaniel, went glassy eyed and just went bezerk.  The owner, pub landlord just shut it away, I assume till it passed.  Poor thing, was clearly not normal behaviour.

Cheers

Toby

Unfortunately Spaniels are prone to rage syndrome, which is uncurable. Diagnosing over the internet is of course ipossible, but the eyes glazing over is a bad sign.

Film it and show it to your vet, they should be able to diagnose it readily, even without neurological or genetic testing.

CB

I am not sure there is genetic testing for rage syndrome (sudden onset aggression). Have you got a link as I think there are some inaccuracies on some internet sites.

It does sound or read like Rage Syndrome.

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/dog-breeds/cocker-spaniel/#:~:text=When%20it%2....

[Another issue that is associated with Show Cockers is a condition known as Rage Syndrome although, luckily this is relatively rare. Dogs for no apparent reason, will suddenly attack another dog quite savagely without giving any warning they are about to do so. When it does happen, a Cocker (or other breed) will typically have a glazed look about their eyes and they appear to be totally unaware of where they are and their surroundings. It has been reported that Cocker Spaniels with solid coloured coats are more prone to suffering from Rage Syndrome, although it has to be said it is very rare.]

Rather than immediately going down a very negative rabbit hole,first check with the breeder/kennel where the dog came from. 

What times of day does it happen, perhaps these coincide with previous feeding times. Dogs get excited at feeding time and the behaviour can become engrained. This is particularly prevelant in dogs from large rescue organisations, where the whole kennel sets off from start to finish of feeding time winding each other up. 

Could also be previous exercise times. 

Anticipate the event and try feeding/exercising or both at the expected times. 

Agreed. Vet and Breeder should be the first point of call. It's uncommon but needs to be considered, rather than people giving a diagnosis having never seen the dog. 

No time for a lengthy search but there is a paper on Dopamine transporter polymorphisms in Belgian Malinois dogs in BMC genetics in 2013. AFAIK some vets have started to do PCR testing for corresponding variations in the same gene in other breeds. Maybe our resident vets can pitch in on that topic, bit far away from my expertise...

CB

Cocker owner here

It doesn't sound like rage, if you read the article you linked to Rage is sudden onset of extreme aggression, which this doesn't sound like.

Having experienced this first hand it sounds like the zoomies to me.

Please provide more details. The paper you reference makes no reference to phenotype. How are researchers using this information to make a genetic test that determines whether the clinical manifestation of rage syndrome (sudden onset aggression) is present. A search of veterinary labs shows no one is offering a test, the kennel club is not recommending that dogs are tested and there are no papers in the veterinary literature that describe testing. Given the potential importance of this disease in avoiding bite injuries I would think this would be findable if there was a test.

Having just puppy walked a couple of foxhound pups, this sounds pretty normal.  I'd be surprised if it's real aggression, it's just play.  Ours had each other to fight with and bite, but it was really only mouthing (you could tell the rare occasion where one of them miscalculated by the resulting yelp).  They never bit us, even when we intervened.  

We have the luxury of plenty of room for them to run around, so for them zoomies was 15 minutes of chasing each other on laps of the field, followed by rolling around fighting or lying on the ground facing each other and growling and barking at each other until they realised it was dinner time.

We still have one of them and she has definitely calmed down quite a lot (she's 9 months now).  How much this of is because she's older and how much because her partner in crime has graduated to the pack and she doesn't need to fight for dominance I'm not sure.

Another cocker owner here. As others have said sounds very much like the zoomies and not Spaniel rage but is worth knowing that such a thing can be a problem in the breed and to contact your vet is if you are at all concerned.

Ours used to have the zoomies quite regularly when a pup. We found the key was distraction and redirection. Ours fairly quickly worked out that zoomies in the garden was fine (though the dahlias never really recovered) but doing the wall of death around the living room sofas as not. The best training technique we learned was to just get up and leave if she was doing something unacceptable. Spaniels seem to be highly social and hate the idea that you have left in disapproval so quickly stop. The other was a load clap to distract and them and then redirecting the energy into a game some training etc.

Finally, welcome to the crazy world of spaniel ownership. It is mostly brilliant but occasionally frustrating and panic-inducing. Ours is now 4 and in general brilliant but they are strong-willed energetic dogs who at times will test your patience!