UKC

Afternoon all!
I nearly ran a 10 year old and 2 of his mates down at the weekend. I was reversing into the road and completely oblivious to me, as I had already checked the road twice, they came hammering round the corner on their bikes in the middle of the road and I just caught sight of them, slammed the anchors on and just missed them.

Wound down the window, made sure they were ok and gave them a good old fashioned telling off. Loads of abuse followed at which point I took the details down of a couple of witnesses and reported it to 101 knowing full well something would happen with the parents.

Sure enough, one of the boys parents knocked on my door at 930 saturday night. Instantly aggressive so I asked him to calm down otherwise I wouldn't entertain him. Of course, this didn't work so more aggression demanding I apologised to his son and regardless if he was in the middle of the road or not, it was my fault. Ignored him as I can't have a conversation with people not fully in the the picture or being aggressive.

Long story short, more aggression, asked him politely to leave our front garden, more grief and threatening behaviour telling me I'll be dead is he sees me, my van will be trashed, house damaged etc so at this point, I decided to call the police as he was already in the front door entrance. As I was speaking to the police, he decided the best option was a couple of punches to me, my 5 year old can hit harder, and more abuse which unbeknown to him was being recorded on speaker during the 999 call.

Police came, took statement, I had his car reg number so they easily found him at his address where he started to deny everything until they told him about the recorded phone call. They had a word with him, came back to see me and one of the policemen informed me that I could press charges and the other one immediately said, no need, yes he hit you but we have dealt with it and this policeman had already told the chap I wouldn't press charges as I didn't want to but I never said anything like this at all.

So had a phone call from the police again today confirming that I won't press charges, I said I hadn't decided either way, said policeman became quite vocal stating it wasn't my choice to press charges and he had decided even though it was assault, it wasn't necessary as the chap said he was sorry and promised not to do it again......

So, can I crack on and press charges? And I'm expecting some of you to say "get a grip, it's all over etc" but why shouldn't I follow it up and press charges? He is clearly a very aggressive chap and had no qualms in basically going berserk outside my house, fairly violent threats and happy to come in the house to punch me.

So what do you reckon? If he had been mellow and civil about the whole thing this wouldn't have happened and unfortunately, depsite me having 2 witnesses to the whole reversing thing he refused to believe his son could be at fault at all. I reckon he needs to realise the seriousness of it all and the police telling me he is sorry and promises not to do it again, doesn't sit well with me.

Thoughts as ever......

Cheers, Den

In reply to Denni:

The protagonist in me says press charges... but only because you have been told you can't. Sounds like the police officers in question are trying to tread an easy life.

Blimey - that is two examples of shoddy policemanship in one day!

In reply to Denni:

I would say the if the father and son are both made to apologise I wouldn't press charges. But thats just me being me as he sounds like an arsey sod....

In reply to cfer:

I totally agree. I'd be happy with that, unlikely to happen but you never know! I could do without the hassle of it all but then I think why should he smack someone in front of his son, say sorry and thats the end of it?

In reply to Denni:

I'm sure 'Off Duty' will be around soon to give you his sage advice.

In reply to Denni:

Your call but don't let frustration at the police officer who's dicking you about influence your decision.

Personally I'd be inclined to see if someone from the police community support team could facilitate a meeting with angry man so we could explain ourselves and settle our differences quietly.

jk

In reply to Denni:

press charges,
maybe some "OffDuty" officer will tell you but is it in the police interest for charges not to be made?

In reply to Denni:

Definately press charges...pricks like this need to be taught a lesson

In reply to Cú Chullain:

I'm with Cú Chullain.

In reply to Tom Last:

I'd press charges. If you'd lost your cool even slightly, they wouldn't hesitate to press charges against you.

In reply to Denni:

As much I as I would like to ignore the situation and not escalate it, I'd press charges.
You got hit.
He made threats to kill.
He threatened to damage your property.
He's set the example to his kid, that if he's in the wrong, then shouting and punching fixes it.

The only down side, is that he'll get a slap on the wrist fine and you may find mysterious scratches on your van, damage to your house etc etc.

In reply to Denni:

With regards to the assault, that's upto you. I would be more inclined to get the officer to apologise for his assumption that you don't intend to press charges. At the end of the day you don't seem too bothered by the punches and you probably want an end to the situation so............I would let it go personally.

Just on the point of you giving the kids a good old fashioned telling off. You do realise its you that should have been given a good old fashioned telling off don't you. Regardless of what you think you are in fact joining their carriageway by 'joining the road'. It is also against the law to reverse into another carriageway so if you had struck these kids you would be looking at your insurance paying up and a call from the old bill.

In reply to Denni:

I don't know whether I'd press charges - probably not unless anything else happens, to be honest, as aggravating things with neighbours is rarely a good idea.

Did I understand correctly that you reversed out onto a road in front of oncoming cyclists, then gave -them- "a good old fashioned telling off"?

If so, I can certainly understand why you got abuse back (though it's no excuse for violence).

In reply to skog:

I had missed that, but it certainly sounds like. If so, the cyclists had priority, not the OP. When reversing, you are responsible for seeing anyone approaching you, though if it was a van a calm and polite "you do know if you can't see my mirrors I can't see you" talk may be worth it - they may genuinely not have realised, they're kids after all.

OTOH I am completely anti-violence and don't think it would be appropriate for their father to use violence even if he *had* reversed into the kids.

Hmm. Maybe an apology on both sides is required.

Neil

In reply to skog:

Hi all thanks for the advice/thoughts.
I checked both ways, all clear reversed out of my driveway onto a quiet estate road. I asked the policeman attending about this and they said that it is not illegal but if you can drive out of a driveway then it is better.
The kids were not there when I looked twice and then they suddenly appeared in the middle of the road, not on the correct side of the road where they should have been and my good old fashioned telling off, after I made sure they were ok, was simply" do you realise you shouldn't have been cycling that fast in the middle of the road, you could get yourselves killed" met by loads of effing and jeffing so I totally disagree with any comments of I was in the wrong for saying that and as for reversing into oncoming cyclists, kind of difficult if they are going that fast that no matter how cautious you are and how oblivious they are, you don't see them until the last minute.
Also, my 2 witnesses both stated that the kids came out of nowhere and were cycling too fast and erratically and in the middle of the road.
Anyway, any more advice?

In reply to Denni:


Fair enough. Your first post sounded more like you blamed them for your mistake, and started the whole argument!

In reply to Denni:

If you got issue with kids you need to take it up with their parents, if that ain't possible you need to let it go

In reply to skog:
Fair enough, I clearly didn't explain myself correctly!

In reply to John Kelly:

Again fair enough but they could have easily gone under my VW Van and they would have been toast so my reaction is as much as shock to the whole thing as well as being bloody annoyed at them for putting me/them in that situation.

In reply to Denni:

Sounds like so far you've handled the situation really well. I can just imagine the sort of tw8ttish tw8t and his aggressive posturing/actual assault. Sadly the kid will most likely grow up to be the next generation of tw8t that this country could well do with fewer of. Good luck to you.

In reply to Denni:
Still not getting it are you.

I worked in insurance claims for years and them kids could have been dancing naked whilst intoxicated and singing culture club classics. It doesn't matter what they were doing because you were joining their carriageway. Not only were you joining their carriageway you were reversing into the carriageway and regardless of what plod says if you had hit them you would have been in the wrong. Not saying it is illegal so plod would probably not be bothering you but you take it to court and your insurance would pay out every time. Cant be bothered but there were loads of law cases finding against the car driver we used to refer to as soon as the customer piped up about it not being illegal to reverse out onto the main carriageway. It may not be illegal but it is definitely your duty of care to do it safely.

Then you have your mistaken belief (And the witnesses) that they appeared from nowhere and were going too fast. Oh and the fact they were in the middle of the road etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Fact remains if you had been pulling out forwards, at the appropriate speed that even if they were coming at you both parties would have been able to see then this wouldn't have happened.

The violence was totally uncalled for and if you press charges then fair enough but do expect someone to question your driving as it was dangerous.

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Don't think Denni would agree with you, he inadvertently nearly wacked out two cyclist, he then lost his temper with'em, had a conversation with a Dad who got so enraged he punched him and fell out with the police. Denni had a bad day (we all have them) and deserves our sympathy and maybe our advice should he want it.

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

This guy is 100% correct and this is the reason that though it's a pain in the bum I wait for a break in the traffic every night before reversing on to my drive so that I have full vision to drive out in the morning.
Regarding the assault though, the guy is a prick and you should press charges, drop them only on a formal apology to your face.

In reply to Denni:

Erm, you weren't looking continuously (either backwards through the window if a car, or alternating in both side mirrors in the case of a van) while reversing?

(It does sound like they were partly to blame by perhaps "cycling furiously", as the charge goes - but if it was a van involved they actually helped you by being in the middle of the road, as if behind you might not have been able to see them!)

But anyway...as I dislike violence I'd be looking for an apology from the father, if not forthcoming I probably would press charges, as well as a formal complaint against the Police for discouraging doing so.

Neil

In reply to Denni:
1) Glad nothing ended worse than it did.

2) Do you need to be reading between the lines with the police? I.e. are they hinting (bit of a stretch from the way you describe it) that pressing charges may just cause more grief for you? I once took the stand against a neighbour as a witness to the prosecution (assault on his partner in the street), this rained down all sorts of grief that the police had limited powers to deal with.

3) If you'd reversed into your drive (into a confined space, having had a good look first) and not out of it (into a wide open space) then you would have far less chance of this happening and you could then drive out forwards which is far safer. Do that in the future. Always. If for some reason I really want to go forwards into a drive and reverse out, Mrs Tree is put on lookout / banks man duty.

4) Fit some household CCTV looking at the driveway just incase the dad comes back.

5) Adopt the now legendary low profile for a while.

6) Personally I'd be more miffed at the police saying charges won't be pressed and presenting it as fact than some dick loosing his rag after a sequence of escalations. You may wish to ask the police what mediation they can facilitate as any prosecution is unlikely to stop him being your neighbour for any length of time and you need to balance the practical side of family life against a need to seek direct personal redress. I'm surprised he was not cautioned if events are as you describe, that would have seemed to be a sensible resolution. Although even that could have life shattering consequences. Though one. Facilitated mediation, give a little and see what happens.

In reply to Denni:

I'd go around and have a chat with him.

He's a neighbout do you really want on going issues?

But I'd go around speak with him, if he apologises and it all ends well I'd leave it there.

In reply to wintertree:

Agree with this. If the police can arrange some kind of chat then it will be much safer than you going around as the father doesn't sound as if he is a very good talker. With the police there he may be more inclined to listen. I would start with an apology for nearly running over his kids and see if he calms down

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

All your points are irrelevant. Police agreed with me after speaking to the witnesses who said exactly the same thing, that they were in the wrong and when I asked them about reversing into the road, they said it wasn't illegal but not best practice. I reckon all those years in insurance has muddled your brain a bit. Is this attitude why so many people can't claim against things despite having witnesses etc.

Oh and make your mind up. You just said "Not saying it is illegal" ie reversing into the road yet further up the thread you said "It is also against the law to reverse into another carriageway" so which one is it? You clearly don't know yourself!

In reply to Denni:

Highway code 201, try not to reverse from a driveway on to the road if it can be avoided.

202 if you have to reverse do so very slowly whilst continuously looking around, mainly through the back window, if you can't see have someone help.

So reversing isn't illegal but it's definitely not good practice, especially in a van with limited visibility.

In reply to Denni:

Not going to offer advice as to "pressing charges" or not. That is a matter for you and your individual circumstances, about which I know nothing. As an aside the decision on charging will be taken by the CPS, or possibly the police in this case, with the decision being based on your wishes, the evidence, previous offending history of the suspect and the somewhat amorphous "public interest".

It sounds like a common assault - so bottom end of the spectrum. It may be that the man is suitable for restorative justice - which may be what the cop was trying to say.
Regardless - the decision to finalise this crime should not have been taken as"the victim does not want to proceed" if in fact you did want to proceed.
A complaint to the duty inspector - or certainly a request to them to clarify exactly what has gone on may assist.

In reply to Denni:

It's a few years since I had direct involvement in the criminal justice system, so my knowledge may be a little out of date, but I am pretty certain that the police had no right acting in the way they have.

From what you describe, a pretty clear case of common assault which I am sure is above the threshold for simple warnings, which individual police officers have some discretion over.

In my experience, common assault usually warrants a charge. Offenders can have the option of a caution in some circumstances, but only after an admission of guilt - which from the sound of it may not have happened here.

The police officer should not put you in the position of arbiter.

If police came to you and said (a) they were clear an offence had taken place, (b) that the person had admitted it and (c) had offered some genuine form of apology; then it might make your decision easier - (a) -(c) are also the conditions under which a caution can be considered.

In reply to Denni:

Think about it this way. Imagine you're cycling along, at a fair clip (but remembering that there is no offence of speeding on a bike). Some idiot reverses out of his driveway, across your right of way, and nearly hits you. He then climbs out of his van and harangues you for being in the wrong.

Were it me, I'd have told you where you could stick your interpretation of the highway code, too.

Yes, it's legal to reverse onto the road. Of course it is. That doesn't give you right of way, though, regardless of what your witnesses think. Do you stop and give way to every single car reversing out of a driveway?

Dad is, quite clearly, a tosser, but to be fair: I can imagine that if I had kids, and they told me someone had nearly hit them and then tried to give them a bollocking when he was the one in the wrong, I'd probably want to have some words with him. Sure, I wouldn't start swinging fists, but I'm afraid I can see where he's coming from.

There are two people in the wrong here, but I don't think either of them is a kid.

In reply to Denni:

Just out of interest how fast were the 2 10 year old kids riding?
They came hammering round the corner at what 20, 30, 40?
If it's either of the first 2 then it's realistic to think a car might be coming round the same corner so not the best place to reverse on to the road.

In reply to Dax H:

Doesn't that come under the general heading of being able to stop in the distance you can see?

In reply to Denni:
In your situation I'd probably be feeling cross and like pressing charges, but if you can somehow resolve this amicably without pressing charges and on vaguely good terms with the kid's dad that's got to be best I reckon.

If the police could arrange it for him to apologise to you while in their presence, perhaps you could give a little bit of ground in saying you'll start to reverse your car into your drive from now on, so that there's no chance of that kind of thing happening again (what with children living in the area etc)?

I say this because it seems to happen that the best/nicest way for people to resolve differences is when both parties can apologise and also be seen to forgive the other as well , which could be handy for harmonious and neighbourly vibes is my thinking.

In reply to Denni:
You're getting a bit of a UKC kicking!
Shame that, you sound decent.
Well done for not rising to your attackers provocation, I doubt I would.
Billocking kids is not wise in this day and age, but I wouldn't take that to heart, as you were probably in shock?
Pressing charges. Mmm. Dodgy one. I would push for the Police to be doing this and not yourself, unless you're convinced that there won't be ramifications.
Personally, I would put this down to a life event and learn from it.

In reply to Denni:

Denni

Bad pants, nobody needs that sort of grief.

I won't comment on the rights and wrongs of the reversing maneuvre, you can take from others what you will.

Re the assault and pressing charges: am I right in thinking you are a large ex forces bloke? Try to imagine if you were a small timid weakling. His punches may have made more of an impression and he may have been encouraged to give it a bit more. Also, given that his son is almost certainly going to grow up to be an arsehole, any opportunity to teach him that this sort of behaviour will not be advantageous should be taken. Think of it as civic duty. Also, the cops need to understand that if you want to press charges then you will make that decision, not them. They work for us, not the other way round. That he was already in your front door entrance is imho very serious; both as an indicator that he means business and also that it confers rights on you to use 'reasonable' force.

It is not often I tell someone they are too nice, but in this instance...

Hope it all works out for the best mate.

In reply to Denni:

As a fellow cyclist - and I know you're one too - I passionately dislike the "came out of nowhere" phrase people use for cyclists. We don't come out of nowhere. Nobody can do that. Just saying.

In reply to AlisonSmiles:
I've probably come out of nowhere as a kid on my bike, I'm thinking, in a middle of the road and high speed kind of way when going round a corner.

I probably cycle in a way which gives myself and other people more time to react than I used to when I was younger.

I get what you mean though, quite often drivers aren't looking properly when they're surprised by a cyclist or they hit one.

In reply to Timmd:

None of that is meaningful if you pull out of a junction/driveway and someone 'comes out of nowhere' and broadsides you. Did you ever see the 1st person PoV go pro footage of the motorcyclist killed when a car pulled across his path? (I'm not going to post a link but it will be easy to find) Yes, he was going too fast in the wrong place, and I'm sure to the car driver he came out of nowhere, but that isn't going to bring anyone back or make anyone feel better. Everyone is responsible for everyone else, and no I'm not perfect on the road either.

In reply to Removed User:
I do know that I cycle in a way which gives other people more time to react in a way that I didn't when I was younger, but I'll agree that everybody is responsible for everybody else (as both concepts aren't mutually exclusive).

Have a good evening.

In reply to AlisonSmiles:


Nonsense. I cycle and drive and it's in the cyclists best interest to be as visible as possible and read the road. This can't be levelled at kids however.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

Argh, not the start of another polarised internet debate!

Both are true, we need to look out for each other as well as take responsibility for our own safety.

In reply to Denni:
Six of one half of the other etc re the road thing with both needing to take more care.

But, if a man comes into my house swinging his fists.............thats another matter entirely.

The police should take that more seriously.

In reply to Denni:
I'd definitely be inclined to presss charges - the guy assaulted you (or at least tried to) on your own doorstep, threatened you and it was his kids that were in the wrong!

I would absolutely make a compalint about the policeman. That is some BS policing!

In reply to Denni:

All sounds a bit shitty Denni. Hope you are OK and the pulse rate has calmed even thinking about it.

Kids can be arses at the best of time. We have all done silly things when wet behind the ears, but some have been brought up to hold no responsibility for their action at all. Possible source ....The parent. Sounds like he has a massive chip on his shoulder. What was he thinking??? Some kind of poor Danny Dyer movie...."I'll sort it out son !!"
Well done for not responding Beserker style. If anybody hit me I would not feel so restrained and tolerant especially on your front door step.

I would get the police to give him the ultimatum... press charges or get him to apologise in front of you, his sons and police for each individual civil violation....or get him to go surfing in South Africa....I don't think that shark would stand for too much aggro.

In reply to sbc_10:

That's what I'm thinking, him giving a formal apology in place of him being charged. If the OP says he'll back his car into the drive from now on too, then everybody is happy as it were, the guy goes away not having been charged and thinking the OP is a decent sort, and the OP gets to have had the threatening person have some consequences for what he did, in having contact with the police and giving a formal apology to the OP.

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Jamie, I obviously don't have your way with words but that is exactly what I meant. Thank you

In reply to Denni:

Press charges- he sounds a bully

In reply to Denni:

>at which point I took the details down of a couple of witnesses

what they say?

In reply to Denni:


You still don't quite seem to be getting this: the kids on bikes had right of way irrespective of their speed (were they seriously over 20 or more likely 30mph?) or road position. I live on a bend at the bottom of a hill on a route to school, this occasionally happens to me when getting the car off the drive or turning in the road, they appear fast and in odd road positions, that's kids for you, you just have to look out for them.


It's forbidden to reverse onto a major road which may be where the confusion crept in https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/reversing-200-to-203

jk

In reply to AlisonSmiles:

'Came out of nowhere' and 'Sorry mate I didn't see you' both equate to'Actually I didn't look'

In reply to jkarran:


Against the highway code, not illegal. The highway code has strength (as if you break it you are probably not being a good driver), but only the MUST NOTs are backed by legislation.

However, you "MUST NOT reverse your vehicle further than necessary" (203).

In reply to Mark Westerman:

It's definitely a phrase that sets me on edge. I have to admit that I interpret it as "I didn't look" until proven otherwise, but I'd also worry that using it in cases where the cyclist really was doing something daft enough that it'd be unreasonable to expect a driver to see them makes it seem more like a believable excuse in the "didn't look" cases. If someone did a Danny MacAskill style bunny-hop off a first floor balcony onto the carriageway or something then I'd expect people to be more precise about what happened!

In reply to Ramblin dave:


Didn't look and didn't see are not the same thing. We're perfectly capable of looking straight at (over) something without seeing it or being aware of how much we are missing, how much our brains just fill in.

jk

In reply to Denni:

I'm just amazed that firstly you actually reported the kids to the police and secondly the police did something about it!

In reply to jkarran:

I have on one occasion come close to hitting a cyclist who was in my windscreen pillar at the second I first looked. So that kind of thing *can* happen. That said, when reversing a vehicle with a large blind area like a van you either need a banksman or to move *very* slowly such that to all intents and purposes you are a stationary vehicle. Take two looks then shoot backwards at even 15mph is no good, that's only viable in a car where you have good all-round vision and can turn your head to keep looking continuously.

Neil

In reply to Denni:
Your big mistake was to wind your window down and administer a good old fashioned telling off.
You should have been fawningly apologetic rather than confrontational.
After all, you nearly hit a couple of cyclists as you were backing your van into the road.
Their ages are irrelevant.
Num Num reckons you should let it lie. In a week it will be forgotten.

In reply to birdie num num:

Oh shit!! Someone sensible has hacked num num's account!

In reply to jkarran:


It is kids for you, I know I gave the odd driver a heart in mouth moment a few times when riding my bike as a kid.

In reply to all:

Hi folks,
really appreciate all the comments and I am objective enough to take it some of it on board.

Been to the police station earlier to ask them why I was told I couldn't press or rather didn't need to press charges and the desk sergeant informed me it was my choice, took the attending policemans details and told me he would follow it up.

He was also objective and reckoned that if I let him, he would ring the chap, arrange for a meeting either at his house or mine (at least I'll find out where he lives so I can damage his car ;0) ) and both of us could apologise which would I suppose be a fair outcome.

It would all have been sorted easily if he hadn't resorted to violence and I know it's not clever to think this, but I've sort of been half thinking as he punched me just inside my house, I should have just knocked his block off but I did't because I was calmer than him, didn't want to resort to violence as it does not solve anything and his punches to be fair weren't that much and along with all of that, his son was stood there watching and two grown men fighting is not a good lesson for anyone.

So thanks again UKC wisdom and wisdomless ;0) folk for the advice.
Den

In reply to Denni:

I think you're following the best possible course, and I really hope it works out amicably.

I suspect that much will depend on the skill of whoever mediates this meeting; if I were you I'd make sure that you both know what you're trying to achieve before you go in there.

In reply to Denni:

Fantastic reply. I know it was a bit fraught yesterday regarding whys and wherefores but that seems to be as reasonable as any man can be.

You were a lot more restrained than anyone could reasonably expect when confronted with a bloke swinging punches and if you are willing to let that roll then the other guy should thank his lucky stars. Hopefully it means you can just ignore each other going forward.

Good luck and I hope this is the end for you. Life is too short to be bothered by people you don't even want to have anything to do with

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:





Cheers Andrew. Everything is always better in hindsight and a couple of days kip :0)

In reply to Denni:


10 year olds on push bikes on the main carriageway, where they have right of way and you do not.


You had limited visibility for anything coming round the corner


Kids had just nearly been run over by someone reversing out that didn't look properly - This actually reads:


You'd tried to run over his kid and then bawled them out for it; I'd be cross too.

veryone will agree that there's no place for violence, but sounds like an apology rather than a bawl out would have been in order from you.

In reply to JJL:

You weren't there and I reacted to the situation as I saw it and as it happened so as far as I'm concerned, I did what was appropriate for me at the time.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing as is opinion from folk who were not involved :0)

In reply to Denni:



Take no notice, he's a 'tard

In reply to Denni:



...

??

In reply to Dave the Rave:


Let me see...
- uses personal attack rather than argument
- uses "retard" as the preferred insult in doing so

You'll forgive me if I don't place too much weight on your clearly considered opinion.

And anyway, isn't it past your bedtime?

In reply to JJL:

No wonder this site is too abrasive and argumentative for some people.

In reply to Denni:

I'd press charges.

Only way a hard man like him will learn his lesson.

Well done for not hitting back.

In reply to JJL:

Out of genuine curiosity (genuinely), why have you phrased it like that?

It's left my scratching my head, seems rather inflammatory and 'aggro'.

Be Buddhist like and peaceful instead.

In reply to Timmd:


Every site on the internet is too abrasive and argumentative for some people. Some folk are just way to British and like 'I say old chap, awfully sorry but would you mind terribly if I were to be so bold as to venture an opinion, if it's all the same to you?'. Others are plain 'in your face'. But the worst ones are the 'passive-aggressive' kind where everyone is frantically trying to enforce agreement with each other and finding all sorts of very subtle but very unpleasant (in a meally-mouthed sort of way) to stick the knife in while making it look like they're doing the person a favour or adopting the moral high ground. 'Buddhist'- style ambiances can be just as bad, especially if it's that Western flavour of Buddhism that Robert Crumb described as 'The Lighter than Air Guys'. But with nearly every internet site I've ever discovered, if some of the people aren't up themselves at least some of the time, then they're up each other, and that is the way of the online world my friend...

In reply to Dave the Rave:


One of the good aspects of this site is, despite the complaints from some people, discussions on the forums are normally done in a good spirit. Even the put downs are generally mild and often humorous

(If you don't believe me, you obviously don't get out much on the net)

Which makes comments like this all the more jarring when you read them

Dave, how old are you? I'd expect to hear comments like this in the playground, not on a site used by adults. And, no, putting a smiley at the end doesn't make it ok

Cheers
Gregor

In reply to Timmd:

"Tried" was completely the wrong word - I suppose I was standing in the kids' shoes and saying what they would say.

I also hadn't read one of the last responses by the op where they sound a great deal more conciliatory. It was the original post that sounded way too much like only half the story!

In reply to Denni:



You were driving badly.
You got upset because you nearly hurt them, and blamed them for your mistake.
The Children got upset because you nearly harmed them, and then bolloked them for your bad driving, in effect treated them unfairly.
They therefore gave you some cheek because they thought you treated them unfairly, and told the Dad.
The childrens dad got upset because some bloke nearly hurt his children by his bad driving, then bollocked his children, unfairly.
You now feel you have been treated unfairly, and it is all about emotions. But the fact is you started it.

You should apologise to the children and family, and explain that you got upset and that its got out of hand.

In reply to Que Sera Sera:
I must have had a very different upbringing to these kids (which wasn't very long ago). If I got a bollocking by someone for nearly getting run over and went to complain to my parents, they would give me a bollocking for playing in the road.

A bit like if I got in trouble in school, my parents wouldn't go up the school and shout at the teachers. Then again my parents didn't think I had the sun shining out of my arse.

In reply to Que Sera Sera:

You seem to have omitted the bit about the kid's dad assaulting the OP in his own home, which rather makes the rest fairly insignificant.

In reply to Ridge:

Like I said its all got very emotional, and people nowadys have very little respect for each other, there is a token respect shown. But Denni, totally accidentally nearly hurt the kids, got upset and abused his power as an Adult and told off the children he had nearly pranged. Of course the Dad should not have hit Denni, he should have reported him for Due care and Attention, aggravated by abusive behaviour to the children, but only after thorough discussion on UKC.

In reply to Denni:

Was this guy who assualted you a good friend/relation perhaps of the officer who tried to get you to not press charges?

Sounds suspicious to me.

In reply to Jim C:

Good point. You'd think with a recording of the incident, (presumably of good quality), the police would be pursuing a nice easy win.

In reply to Ridge:

Hi again all,
had a meeting with the local plod, the chap and his son today. He didn;t want to host it at his house so I suggested that as he knew where I lived ;0) they could come here.

They all came in, I introduced myself, the young chap introduced himself as did the policeman but dad said "you don't need to know my name". Ok, thats not the important bit of the conversation so I ignored that. Dad then said, you can start the apologies. You could just tell that he really did not want to be here!

Anyway, I apologised to the young chap, explaining that my reaction was due to him being in the middle of the road, me not seeing him and nearly knocking him over. He accepted that and he then apologised saying they came round the corner too fast, was talking to his mate, didn't see me at all and that he was thankful that I stopped the van. He then apologised for all the abuse he gave me saying he was scared and thought he might be in trouble. Good on him so we both shook hands and agreed that it could have gone better, neither of us blamed the other and that was that.

Dad was then prompted by the policeman asking if he would like to add anything. He started giving me grief again about talking to his son in that manner, started to swear again but was then reminded that he had assaulted me and the whole idea was that he was going to either apologise or I could decided what I wanted to do.

I started talking to him saying I would have done the same thing if it were my child, etc etc and again apologising about my behaviour and said your son and I have sorted out the situation so can we please just move on with it at which point he told me if I ever talked to his son again he would do me for harassment and that he wasn't going to apologise, why should he, he reacted how he thought fit.

So I told the policeman they could all leave and the policeman said he would ask him to write a letter of apology at which point i said I wouldn't accept it (why the hell should I let him get away with such a chickens way out?) and I wanted him to apologise verbally and said if he wants to ring me at home and apologise, then that is fine. I think this is more than reasonable considering he could have a criminal record instead.

Shook hands with the young chap again who again said sorry, seems like a really good kid, so I said sorry again at which point dad said "I told you not to talk to hm again". They both drove away and the policeman said he would be getting his boss to ring the chap in the mornng and explain what the consequences would be if I were to press charges in the hope he would re-consider his course of action. We both agreed that it's probably all about being embarrassed in front of his son and doesn't like the idea of backing down so I told him that he has until the end of play tomorrow evening to talk him into it and if nothing happens, then I'll go ahead and press charges. Why the frig should I let someone who clearly doesn't see what he has done as wrong get away with it?

Anyway, could have been worse!

In reply to Denni:

Bloody hell. Have no compunction whatsoever in pressing charges. If nothing else, that kid needs to see what consequences mean.

I admire your restraint; if I'd just had that discussion with the son, and then the dad had behaved like that, I'm pretty sure I'd have told the policeman I intended to press charges then and there.

And I fear you need to install CCTV trained on your van.

In reply to Denni:

I really do admire how reasonable you are being. The dad sounds like a Jeremy Hunt. You probably set his son a better example in ten minutes than his dad has done all his life.

Hopefully he will grow some sense and contrition, but I wouldn't hold my breath, and if not, yep, insist on charges. Any apologies that can be made for his initial behaviour being in the heat of the moment are out the window now he has had a few days to cool off.

Whatever happens, don't let it keep you awake at night.

In reply to Denni:

You've given the Police and the kid and his Dad the chance of restorative justice which the Police want as means is not a crime and hits a target for them so they really don't want a complaint. Do you feel that you want to make a formal complaint as what do you want from it? if it will give you closure then would say go for it and the 2 of them may see a consequence to their behaviour which there should be. But realistic the dad will get a caution unless he has previous violent convictions as you haven't sustained injuries that the Police will be interested in generally.

The option of restorative justice can be really good for all parties when it is right for all involved but all need to be suitable for it and the dad does not sound like he is and is only doing to avoid a charge.

You just need to do what you feel is right.

In reply to Denni:

Sounds like he's desperately trying to avoid losing face, but doesn't know how to do that without making matters worse for himself.

In reply to Denni: Blimey. I've never been one for getting the law involved unnecessarily, but you seem like the master of restraint and reason. And as others have said he needs teaching a lesson, if only to show his son that this sort of thing is wrong - he's been given a chance to be reasonable (and you and the son have taken yours) - throw the book at him.

In reply to Denni:

agree with the other comments- sounds like you've been an absolute model of restraint, and he deserves whats coming to him....

best wishes
gregor

In reply to shipton47:

RJ is still a crime. It makes bugger all difference to our figures. As for targets most forces have moved away from using them, quite rightly due to the dysfunctional behaviour they were prone to drive.
RJ was introduced as a good solution to the problem of unnecessarily criminalising people for minor offences and providing a much more painless way for victims to resolve matters.
The dad had effectively walked away from that solution, however that might well change should the consequences be robustly "explained" to him by the cop.
He won't be eligible for a caution unless he admits the offence, which he has already refused to do once.

In reply to off-duty:

The salient question for me would be 'is this individual likely to bother me again?'

If yes, pressing charges might be a way to contain the situation, if no, why not just leave him to it? He'll still continue to be a bit of an idiot without your help and your involvement won't change that, but it might cost you in one way or another.

In reply to Denni:

Would just like to post that this is an impressively mature attitude to the situation on which you should be congratulated, whichever way you decide to take it.

In reply to Denni:

I am impressed by your patience and do hope the situation resolved itself, clearly the young lad has more intelligence than his dad.
If you don't press charges, I'm sure dad will be telling all friends and relations of how he "sorted" you and made you back down etc. etc.
Good luck whatever your decision. Have you considered giving him a good kick in the nuts - something he would understand?

In reply to Neil Williams:

Hi folks,
Chap has just rang me and told me there is no way he is going to apologise, I deserved all I got, I'm a girl for not fighting him in the street and he knows where I live, etc etc. I asked him to re consider given the fact that he has admitted assault and if he doesn't apologise I shall press charges.

Told him I had started to record the phone call and and at this point, he said "I don't care, do what you want and you won't press charges if you know what's good for you and your family" so a quick call to the police station , an email of the recorded phone call and they are calling him as I type to attend the local station to be formally charged with assault and also threatening behaviour.

Not an ideal outcome and I reckon there is more to come so a good job we are moving house soon! I just don't understand some people some time and cheers for all the advice and supporting comments. Nought as queer as folk sometimes!

In reply to Denni:

My god, what a knob! Does this father have a reputation? This talk of 'I know where you live' and 'what's good for you and your family' etc. Is that likely to be cliched hot air / blustered or something more serious?

You and his son come out of this so much better. I don't see how the father is saving face by not apologising: he's coming across as an unreasonable **** and the honouraboe thing would be to apologise. Possibly his son understands that and is showing more maturity than his dad.

In reply to Denni:
Wow. *What* a prick!

His son sounds like a good kid, I really feel for the boy.

In reply to Denni:

Christ, what a dickhead. Not a nice situation to be in, but you've done the right thing in the circumstances. Not pressing charges would have this dickhead thinking you're terrified of him, and that type will start ramping up the intimidation because he thinks he can get away with it.

No idea how serious he is, but I don't think a serious hardman would be that stupid, it'd be all nicey nicey in front of the police. Probably just a gobshite who's always got away with it.

Hopefully he won't carry out his threats, but if he does turn up you can batter him senseless as all the evidence will show that you would have been acting in self defence.

In reply to Denni:

Again, it sounds like you've conducted yourself really well with the fall out of this. I'm afraid I would take seriously the advice to get a little home CCTV camera trained on your van (and probably front door, and rear access if possible). He sounds like the sort of spiteful tw8t who'll try to 'win in the end' by making life difficult. He obviously is too stupid and proud to 'get it' that this isn't how grown ups behave. His son seems to understand and be a lot more mature, so I take back my earlier comment that he's destined to be the next generation of unnecessary tw8t.

In reply to Denni:

Just accept that if he is as 'hard' as he is pretending, he wouldn't have phones he would have come round and battered you on the doorstep. He sounds like an inadequate wally who is all bluster and hot air. Keep recording the conversations, maybe cheap cctv on your property etc.
Unfortunately there are a lot of arses around, who bully anyone who doesn't stand up to them, and don't realise when they are going to lose.
Press charges, keep recordings as evidence, contact police every time he contacts you, make his life a misery but in a legal, mean but non-aggressive way.

In reply to Denni:


I think you've done all you can and far more than most would to amicably resolve the situation. Embarassed or not his situation is pretty clear, he's had his chance and deserves whatever he gets. Poor kid. At least it sounds like he has a better role model somewhere in his life at home or in school.

jk

In reply to johncook:


Hard advice, if you're a decent, compassionate human being, but sound advice for all that...

In reply to jkarran:

Massive credit to the kid for managing to be so reasonable having such an awful "role model". Hopefully he will go far, unlike his Dad who if he carries on like that will end up in only one place...jail.

Neil

In reply to Denni:
The fact that he didn't want to tell you his name, and that he didn't want you to tell you where he lived means he isn't a hard man or have a reputation, if he was his name would have been the first thing he told you. He would have also told you his address on the basis that if you turned up on his doorstep he could quite happily beat the c*&p out of you with little comeback.

Also if he was the police would have know who he was and would either be a) pushing you to press charges..as they want to Nick him, or b) quietly telling you to think about it carefully because of reprisals

He doesn't sound very clever though which I suspect will mean that he will feel the need to threaten you or damage your property when he is charged.

CCTV, Recordings, Contacting the police when he contacts you or threatens you is all good stuff for the CPS.

In reply to Denni:

You have no option now, I'm wondering how many of the lads schoolteachers, friends parents, football coaches etc. may have been intimidated by him in the past.

You could be doing a lot of people a good turn!