UKC

I've currently got a decrepit solid fuel stove and back burner in a 3 bedroom cottage and half thinking about getting a gas boiler for the central heating and hot water. It would have to be off bottled gas as there's no main line here.

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about rough installation and running costs as I haven't really got a clue. A new stove of the same type would be about £2-3000, running costs would be reduced with a more efficient boiler but it's starting to cost a fortune over the winter and I'm getting too old to be freezing my tits off all the time! The thought of coming home and waking up with the heating already on is rather appealing as well, and seeing as I can't afford a butler just yet gas might be a worthwhile compromise.

Last year I spent at least £100 a month on fuel which is about double what I had in the past couple of years. I'm not sure how much a gas boiler would be to run or how much more expensive bottled gas is compared to the mains?

Any info much appreciated.

Ben

In reply to Sharp:

dont think you'll get many days heating from just bottles, you'd have to look at a proper LPG tank. Oil will probably be cheaper than this (is in my area)

According to my research, Color Gas is far more expensive than Mains Gas, Oil and even coal.
Have you thought about installing an oil system - although oil is quite high at the moment if you top up tanks in the summer the cost go down and the boilers are very efficient, I had an oil system in Derbyshire for several years and found it reasonable and I backed the heating system up with a multi fuel stove for the nights which didn't warrant the hold central heating system being switched on.

In reply to Sharp: Both LPG and oil fired central heating are far more expensive than mains gas, partly because there fuel suppliers have close to a monopoly. You'd be looking back with nostalgia to the days in which you only spent £100 a month on fuel.

In reply to Removed User:

You are the first person I know who has endorsed an oil system. Folks with oil systems always seem to be (rightly) complaining about the extortionate cost of oil.

In reply to EeeByGum: Its all comparative though.... given the choice nobody would use systems that require innefficient delivery. But if you live rural and are not on mains gas the main (mainstream) choices are LPG Gas tank and Oil. Of those 2, Oil is probably cheaper more of the time than gas as far as I can tell. But its probably not much different really as you lease a gas tank (I think) and own an oil tank (so have to pay to replace it once in a while)... it all comes out roughly the same in long run I expect.

The oil is exorbitant and the price spikes on weather and transport related supply and demand. But you are also paying a bloke in a tanker to come and deliver it so its never going to be cheap compared with plugging into an existing gas main. I have a 1250 litre oil tank so always end up buying at least one, probably 2 tanks full in winter conditions when prices higher.... If I went up to a larger tank I might get a small saving by filling in summer but that takes up a lot of extra space (especially for a bunded one).

In reply to Sharp: Cheers everyone, I'd kind of hoped gas would be a good idea but maybe it'll be more expensive than I'd thought and I hadn't really considered how quickly the bottles would empty. It's infuriating that they dug half my street up to install gas lines but stopped about 40m from my front door.

I should maybe just stick with the stove that's in until it collapses, I think the best option for the house would be some sort of low level background heating/hot water system in addition to the stove but anything like that I've come across has been out of my budget.

I don't fancy oil to be honest, I had it once before and I think it'd probably be something I'd regret getting in the long run.

If I'd burned only wood last winter I'd have spent a lot more than £100 a month, I'm not sure if it's just the old stove but you could burn £50 worth of bone dry hardwood wood a week and the average temp would still be single figures. Coal all the way next winter.

Cheers everyone

In reply to Sharp: Some of the new electric radiators might be worth looking at. Fully controllable. It may be possible to offset the running costs with solar panels.

In reply to Sharp:

Ground/ air source heat pump, topped up by LPG/ Oil?

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generating-energy/Choosing-a-renewable-...

In reply to EeeByGum:

I have an oil boiler. It is indeed extortionate in running costs. That said bottled LPG makes it look unbelieveably cheap. If I were installing from scratch I'd be looking at ground/air source heat pumps.

In reply to Ridge:

Much as it's shite, if cost is important might Economy 7 electric heating be worth investigating?

But beware, as I said, storage heaters are shite. So this is very much a last resort where cost is a priority over function.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:
Do they still do Economy 7?

In reply to Neil Williams:

When I had it, it was both REALLY shit and REALLY expensive.

In reply to Sharp: we live out in the sticks with oil central heating. Bargains can be had filling the tank in the summer. Our next door neighbours in a big old rectory have two 2000 litre tanks which get filled once a year in Summer. We looked into converting to Calor but it didn't stack up against sensible planning on oil deliveries and storage. A 1200 litre tank just cost us 300 quid.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

A 1200 litre tank just cost us 300 quid.

I take it that was for the tank rather than the oil, as if you can get it for 25p a litre I'm hiring a tanker and driving down to Sheffield from Cumbria.

In reply to Sharp:

Have you looked at electric combi-boilers? I renovated a place about 5 years ago and installed one. Tough to find an installer and the upfront costs were tough but once installed the running costs were very reasonable.

Now back on oil with a stove and back boiler. Oil costs are about 1400 a year for a five bed stone wall house (no cavity).

Next time we move and we're off the oil grid I'll go for another electric combi.

In reply to Sharp: If you have mains gas 40m from your house have you looked into the cost of paying for it to be connected? I think gas is the same as other utilities where there are a fixed scale of costs for a certain distance.

For regular gas central heating you are probably looking at circa £1k to install a boiler and then it just depends what other work needs doing on your existing system.

In reply to Richard Alderton:

I know someone who recently had that installed (air source) and I think that with a stove and back boiler would be ideal for me, but it's ludicrously expensive.

Stewie, I haven't actually looked at how much it would cost to be connected but that sounds like a good idea. I'd just assumed it would be extortionate.

In reply to Sharp: probably agree with what has been said but i ve got a worscester boiler set for bottled gas and four gas bottles up in the shed that i d happily sell you for a bargain price. we took it out when we renovated, guy who lived here before said it cost a fortune to run . the people who put it in were told, incorrectly, that there was no mains gas in the village. not sure if the boiler would run off tank gas but it might ?
why not buy a top draw multi fuel stove and back boiler, and put a good quality chimney liner in. we ve got a clearview , on top of gch, and its ace. we burn wood, coal and that slow burn stuff "burn well" (?). over the winter we very rarely let it go out and the house (300 year old barn) is always really cosy .

In reply to mike123: not sure what others think but i ve lived in several old houses and they never seem to warm up with "normal" central heating, wood/multifuel stoves always seem to do the trick.

In reply to mike123: I think I'd need a chimney liner for defo as mines disintegrating slightly. Is there such a thing as a poor quality chimney liner then and does that affect it's efficiency? How much did you pay for your stove and installation, if you don't mind me asking?

I have thought about upgrading the stove and boiler for a while now as it's getting on 20 years old. I'd be interested to know how much more efficient modern stoves are compared to mine. A big difference would make me want to get a new one sooner rather than later but if it's not going to make a huge difference I'd be inclined to leave it a while (till all that money comes rolling in around the corner!).

In reply to Sharp: briefly, the liner has to be twin walled steel for multi fuel, but, as with most things , you can pay more and get better quality. in this case the steel is of a better grade and this means it will last longer. if you intend staying in the house for 10+ years , fit the best you can afford, I m not sure, but I seem to remember the very cheap ones that are still up to regs will only usually last about 10 years or so. (waits for somebody to say ...pah....i fitted the cheap one 200 years ago and blah blah ......). i cant find the link for where i got this liner from but if you look here:
http://www.flue-liner.com/Flue_Liners/6_inch.html
you ll see that they have three different grades of steel for a multi fuel liner, i think there maybe four or five available.
fitting ? <coughs> is it legal to fit your own stove even if you do it to above and beyond regs ? not really sure.
i ve had the stove 15+ years and have taken it with me when i ve moved. buy quality, buy once. its had two sets of fire bricks and one baffle plate. clearview stoves are pricey but they last years and the people at clearview are very good to deal with .
http://www.clearviewstoves.com/

In reply to Ridge:

I think so. I had it at my old flat, anyway, and you still see new flats built with it (rather than a whole-building gas system as might actually make sense).

It is expensive and shite, but perhaps not as expensive (though definitely more shite) as bottled gas? Not sure.

Neil

In reply to mike123: Cheers for the info, although usually the type to engage in ambitious home projects I think fitting the flue, stove and connecting the boiler would probably be a step above my ambition levels!