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I personally gave up on basically all forms of public transport a year or so ago, bar trains, which I use once or twice a year for long journeys to visit family. But my missus uses buses all the time, last week, 3 of her buses were 15+ minutes late, one was a no show completely. I don't know if this is a problem across the board or just something that is localised to a certain (won't mention names) bus company in Bristol.
The thing is, this bus company is raising their costs this Monday, which is understandable, with the costs of fuel on the rise they would have to do something to ensure they stay in profit, they are after all a company before a public service.
But my idea is this, in a world where 99% of people have a smart phone, why is it that they haven't made an app yet whereby you pay whatever they decide to charge (I'd say no more than £2.00 tops) and then give users live updates on their services (I say this because those little screens they have in the bus shelters don't tell you when a bus has been cancelled, and there's hardly any of them in Bristol anyway). I'd be surprised if this company didn't have trackers fitted to their vehicles, so why not utilise that in a way that would be beneficial to the customer?
They would bring in additional revenue from anyone who bought their app, the people who bought it would be able to make other arrangements if their bus was cancelled. All winners.
The thing is, this bus company is raising their costs this Monday, which is understandable, with the costs of fuel on the rise they would have to do something to ensure they stay in profit, they are after all a company before a public service.
But my idea is this, in a world where 99% of people have a smart phone, why is it that they haven't made an app yet whereby you pay whatever they decide to charge (I'd say no more than £2.00 tops) and then give users live updates on their services (I say this because those little screens they have in the bus shelters don't tell you when a bus has been cancelled, and there's hardly any of them in Bristol anyway). I'd be surprised if this company didn't have trackers fitted to their vehicles, so why not utilise that in a way that would be beneficial to the customer?
They would bring in additional revenue from anyone who bought their app, the people who bought it would be able to make other arrangements if their bus was cancelled. All winners.
In reply to Cypher: Having recently moved from london to bristol i was shocked at just how poor the public transport is in Bristol. In london a bus journey anywhere is about £1.20. In Bristol bus journeys are about £3.50 and it's not a big place so no journey is that long. Buses run only every 20 mins or so in rush hour!
I have only been on the bus 3 times in the six months i've lived here and each time it was late.
I think Bristol needs another bus company to come in and run a decent service as at the moment it seems like there is one company that charges what it wants for a terrible service.
I have only been on the bus 3 times in the six months i've lived here and each time it was late.
I think Bristol needs another bus company to come in and run a decent service as at the moment it seems like there is one company that charges what it wants for a terrible service.
In reply to Cypher:
I just use my bike. Much cheaper, no waiting and a free workout too! Plus you can change your route on a whim, it smells nicer and it is more fun. I now have buns of steel.
I just use my bike. Much cheaper, no waiting and a free workout too! Plus you can change your route on a whim, it smells nicer and it is more fun. I now have buns of steel.
In reply to Cypher:
For my sins, a few years ago I worked in this area on demand-responsive transport - basically running a service which was half-bus, half taxi. Buses cover an area rather than a route - call and book, get taken to where you want to go, and pay a bus fare rather than a taxi one. It's better suited to rural areas, but still a bloody tricky thing to get people to use.
Happens all over the place. Buses are unpredictable beasts though - they do break down (more than you might think) and are subject to whatever else is going on on the road.
>they are after all a company before a public service.
Not quite - profitable routes, yes. Unprofitable routes heavily publicly subsidised. The company still has to deliver as a business to secure the subsidy from the council, but on the other hand they generally have a monopoly in any given area where subsidy is required, so there can be a fair bit of holding to ransom (as the local authority comes under huge pressure to keep services running, even if there's only one old dear who uses it once a week. The local press absolutely loves whipping up a storm about stories like this, and if there's one thing councils hate it's negative stories). So a fair bit of bus transport is still technically a public service.
The tracking kit when we set these services up, about 10 years ago, was pretty expensive then but was basically just mobile technology using sim cards which refreshed and updated once a minute. Probably cheap as chips to do now. Don't see why your idea couldn't work in theory.
For my sins, a few years ago I worked in this area on demand-responsive transport - basically running a service which was half-bus, half taxi. Buses cover an area rather than a route - call and book, get taken to where you want to go, and pay a bus fare rather than a taxi one. It's better suited to rural areas, but still a bloody tricky thing to get people to use.
> I don't know if this is a problem across the board or just something that is localised to a certain (won't mention names) bus company in Bristol.
Happens all over the place. Buses are unpredictable beasts though - they do break down (more than you might think) and are subject to whatever else is going on on the road.
>they are after all a company before a public service.
Not quite - profitable routes, yes. Unprofitable routes heavily publicly subsidised. The company still has to deliver as a business to secure the subsidy from the council, but on the other hand they generally have a monopoly in any given area where subsidy is required, so there can be a fair bit of holding to ransom (as the local authority comes under huge pressure to keep services running, even if there's only one old dear who uses it once a week. The local press absolutely loves whipping up a storm about stories like this, and if there's one thing councils hate it's negative stories). So a fair bit of bus transport is still technically a public service.
> But my idea is this, in a world where 99% of people have a smart phone, why is it that they haven't made an app yet whereby you pay whatever they decide to charge (I'd say no more than £2.00 tops) and then give users live updates on their services (I say this because those little screens they have in the bus shelters don't tell you when a bus has been cancelled, and there's hardly any of them in Bristol anyway). I'd be surprised if this company didn't have trackers fitted to their vehicles, so why not utilise that in a way that would be beneficial to the customer?
The tracking kit when we set these services up, about 10 years ago, was pretty expensive then but was basically just mobile technology using sim cards which refreshed and updated once a minute. Probably cheap as chips to do now. Don't see why your idea couldn't work in theory.
In reply to doz generale:
£3.50!! blimey! I'd expect to drive it for that much....
How is that justified? is is that expensive to run or are the buses half empty?
£3.50!! blimey! I'd expect to drive it for that much....
How is that justified? is is that expensive to run or are the buses half empty?
In reply to Cypher: The problem is that anyone can set up a bus company. Once don't there is nothing that dictates how good your service should be. It is more or less totally deregulated and a free-for-all. As a result, all the competition has been blown out of the water by First, Stagecoach and Arriva buying up all the competition and then they are only really interested in profitable routes. So regulation is almost certainly the answer in some respects.
Personally, I don't think buses are the answer. They are just part of an answer that involves all forms of transport including cars. Alas no government has yet had the motivation to implement a truly integrated transport system because at the end of the day, car travel is still relatively cheap.
Personally, I don't think buses are the answer. They are just part of an answer that involves all forms of transport including cars. Alas no government has yet had the motivation to implement a truly integrated transport system because at the end of the day, car travel is still relatively cheap.
In reply to Cypher: I use buses all the time, but they are pretty much designed for what I want to do - get from a peripheral suburb into a town centre, and then occasionally out again to a different location. They are relatively cheap, very frequent (15 minutes late would be impossible in day time as they are less than 10 minutes apart). They don't smell and they aren't full of nutters. The between town services are also reasonably ok, though less frequent, and can be overcrowded on occasion.
Nottm has got real time update apps (I think) You can certainly text for updates and most regular users have smartcard thingies.
Not perfect, but better than Bristol, by the sounds. BTW, I think your 99% smartphone use is a very limited demographic. I don't see many pensioners with one.
Buses work very well in these core situations. Unpopular and rural routes don't really work at all, economically speaking, and I think providers need to look again at how these services are managed/ provided.
Nottm has got real time update apps (I think) You can certainly text for updates and most regular users have smartcard thingies.
Not perfect, but better than Bristol, by the sounds. BTW, I think your 99% smartphone use is a very limited demographic. I don't see many pensioners with one.
Buses work very well in these core situations. Unpopular and rural routes don't really work at all, economically speaking, and I think providers need to look again at how these services are managed/ provided.
In reply to Cypher: Do you mean the sort of thing that we have in Edinburgh: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.org.rivernile.edinburghbus... ?
It uses your phone's location service to show you on Google Maps where your nearest stops are, and then you can find out when the next buses are at each one. You can bookmark particular stops that you use regularly. One downside is that it only shows you Lothian buses, not First or McEwans.
I believe there is actually a similar system in London and maybe a few other areas. Sounds like Bristol hasn't made much useful investment in its public transport infrastructure recently...
It uses your phone's location service to show you on Google Maps where your nearest stops are, and then you can find out when the next buses are at each one. You can bookmark particular stops that you use regularly. One downside is that it only shows you Lothian buses, not First or McEwans.
I believe there is actually a similar system in London and maybe a few other areas. Sounds like Bristol hasn't made much useful investment in its public transport infrastructure recently...
In reply to What Goes Up:
"For my sins, a few years ago I worked in this area on demand-responsive transport - basically running a service which was half-bus, half taxi. Buses cover an area rather than a route - call and book, get taken to where you want to go, and pay a bus fare rather than a taxi one. It's better suited to rural areas, but still a bloody tricky thing to get people to use. "
It's also an extremely expensive method of operation always requiring heavy subsidy, from what I know of it. It does suit very rural operations with intermittent users, but for regular use it's of very limited benefit.
Besides which, why would you move to a bookings-only mode of transport if you had a non-booking-required car?
Neil
"For my sins, a few years ago I worked in this area on demand-responsive transport - basically running a service which was half-bus, half taxi. Buses cover an area rather than a route - call and book, get taken to where you want to go, and pay a bus fare rather than a taxi one. It's better suited to rural areas, but still a bloody tricky thing to get people to use. "
It's also an extremely expensive method of operation always requiring heavy subsidy, from what I know of it. It does suit very rural operations with intermittent users, but for regular use it's of very limited benefit.
Besides which, why would you move to a bookings-only mode of transport if you had a non-booking-required car?
Neil
In reply to thin bob:
I think it's the lack of competition. If i catch the bus to work it's about £3.50 for a 5 mile journey!
I cycle though so have only used the bus a couple of times.
Funnily though i have almost justified buying myself a better bike as im saving more money by cycling and not getting the bus in Bristol then i was saving by not getting the bus in london!
> (In reply to doz generale)
> £3.50!! blimey! I'd expect to drive it for that much....
> How is that justified? is is that expensive to run or are the buses half empty?
> £3.50!! blimey! I'd expect to drive it for that much....
> How is that justified? is is that expensive to run or are the buses half empty?
I think it's the lack of competition. If i catch the bus to work it's about £3.50 for a 5 mile journey!
I cycle though so have only used the bus a couple of times.
Funnily though i have almost justified buying myself a better bike as im saving more money by cycling and not getting the bus in Bristol then i was saving by not getting the bus in london!
In reply to toad:
Nottingham is a bit of an exception, because its buses are mainly operated by two companies - one is still a municipal (NCT), and the other is an operator (Trent) which tends to and has for many years push quality and convenience very heavily, but that comes at the expense of anything that isn't profitable under that model.
Neil
Nottingham is a bit of an exception, because its buses are mainly operated by two companies - one is still a municipal (NCT), and the other is an operator (Trent) which tends to and has for many years push quality and convenience very heavily, but that comes at the expense of anything that isn't profitable under that model.
Neil
In reply to Neil Williams:
Incredibly, ten years later the services all still seem to be alive. I think the subsidy back when we set them up was around £8 of your tax bucks for each passenger journey (passenger cost around £2-3).
> Besides which, why would you move to a bookings-only mode of transport if you had a non-booking-required car?
>
Exactly, which was why we had such a bugger of a time getting anyone to use it. You're absolutely right about it being heavily subsidised - that's exactly what happens as a result. The series of services were set up precisely for the small handful of people in a given village who didn't have a car (god help the local politican who cuts rural bus services in an election year!!). No-one else was going to get on it for love nor money.>
Incredibly, ten years later the services all still seem to be alive. I think the subsidy back when we set them up was around £8 of your tax bucks for each passenger journey (passenger cost around £2-3).
In reply to Neil Williams:
Yes, I think I knew that, and I know they have problems with operators for unprofitable and across town routes, for eg I can get into town very easily, but once my doctor moves to a new surgery on the other side of the suburb, I know there will be very few/no buses - Not a problem for me (so far) but a BIG problem for biddies with mobility problems.
> (In reply to toad)
>
> Nottingham is a bit of an exception, because its buses are mainly operated by two companies - one is still a municipal (NCT), and the other is an operator (Trent) which tends to and has for many years push quality and convenience very heavily, but that comes at the expense of anything that isn't profitable under that model.
>
> Neil
>
> Nottingham is a bit of an exception, because its buses are mainly operated by two companies - one is still a municipal (NCT), and the other is an operator (Trent) which tends to and has for many years push quality and convenience very heavily, but that comes at the expense of anything that isn't profitable under that model.
>
> Neil
Yes, I think I knew that, and I know they have problems with operators for unprofitable and across town routes, for eg I can get into town very easily, but once my doctor moves to a new surgery on the other side of the suburb, I know there will be very few/no buses - Not a problem for me (so far) but a BIG problem for biddies with mobility problems.
In reply to toad:
My doctor's surgery caused that in the other way - it was moved to a new building, from one that was literally right next to a bus stop on a very busy route serving much of its catchment, to one that was 5 minutes' brisk walk for a normal adult from it (but a problem for said "biddies").
Neil
My doctor's surgery caused that in the other way - it was moved to a new building, from one that was literally right next to a bus stop on a very busy route serving much of its catchment, to one that was 5 minutes' brisk walk for a normal adult from it (but a problem for said "biddies").
Neil
In reply to Cypher:
If you really have to be on time they are a nightmare. I kind of gave up after the occasion when to be sure of being on time I'd got to the stop in time for the earlier bus (they are every 20 mins). Because it didn't show up the next one (which should have got me there on time) was full and the driver wouldn't let anyone on. 40 mins later ... that's not really the amount of leeway you'd allow for a 25 minute journey.
The digital screens would be helpful, then at least you could make an informed decision as to whether to go home and get the car, walk the mile to the station or catch a non direct bus and change bus elsewhere.
It would also be really handy if the bus shelters had some kind of screen you could use to look up your fare. If you're not a frequent user you then at least have the option of being able to try to have the right money ready which makes the whole payment of driver more efficient.
If you really have to be on time they are a nightmare. I kind of gave up after the occasion when to be sure of being on time I'd got to the stop in time for the earlier bus (they are every 20 mins). Because it didn't show up the next one (which should have got me there on time) was full and the driver wouldn't let anyone on. 40 mins later ... that's not really the amount of leeway you'd allow for a 25 minute journey.
The digital screens would be helpful, then at least you could make an informed decision as to whether to go home and get the car, walk the mile to the station or catch a non direct bus and change bus elsewhere.
It would also be really handy if the bus shelters had some kind of screen you could use to look up your fare. If you're not a frequent user you then at least have the option of being able to try to have the right money ready which makes the whole payment of driver more efficient.
In reply to AlisonSmiles: Really hadn't appreciated how lucky I was - you can add a single fixed fare and exact money only (on city buses) to my list
In reply to Cypher:
I think busses are horribly frustrating. It costs around £2.50 for me to catch a bus to town (from the suburbs 2 miles away) and they're unpredictable.
The bureaucracy is also crap - When my wife and I tried using a family ticket bought earlier in the day (which offered unlimited travel for the day) we were told we couldn't because we didn't have at least one child with us. Also, have you ever try buying a ticket with a tenner? The driver will at least look shocked, or may even refuse your custom.
Contrast this with the tran systems found in many medium sized cities in Europe's more affluent countries (France, Germany, Switzerland, etc). Entirely dependable, good value, plenty of space and so on. Surely this is the way forward.
I think busses are horribly frustrating. It costs around £2.50 for me to catch a bus to town (from the suburbs 2 miles away) and they're unpredictable.
The bureaucracy is also crap - When my wife and I tried using a family ticket bought earlier in the day (which offered unlimited travel for the day) we were told we couldn't because we didn't have at least one child with us. Also, have you ever try buying a ticket with a tenner? The driver will at least look shocked, or may even refuse your custom.
Contrast this with the tran systems found in many medium sized cities in Europe's more affluent countries (France, Germany, Switzerland, etc). Entirely dependable, good value, plenty of space and so on. Surely this is the way forward.
In reply to Cypher: We've already got a "text for live updates" system in place, which seems to work alright.
I think part of the problem with buses is that (like a lot of things) the fewer people use them, the worse they get. If everyone who possibly could get a bus did, you'd end up with more services, more regular services, faster services (because there'd be less traffic), better public awareness. But noone's willing or able to take the big, expensive, potentially unpopular that would get more people onto buses - normally because it involves actively disincentivising driving, and the poor persecuted motorists would whinge.
I think part of the problem with buses is that (like a lot of things) the fewer people use them, the worse they get. If everyone who possibly could get a bus did, you'd end up with more services, more regular services, faster services (because there'd be less traffic), better public awareness. But noone's willing or able to take the big, expensive, potentially unpopular that would get more people onto buses - normally because it involves actively disincentivising driving, and the poor persecuted motorists would whinge.
In reply to Cypher:
The rest of the country really could learn from TFL.
I have an app on my phone that tells me when the next buses are coming. In other places you can sometimes get this information on screens at some bus stops, or text to find out, everywhere it should be by app.
And everywhere should support smart card use.
They make it far too much effort to get on the bus, if you had an app saying exactly when the bus was coming and could pay by smart card instead of needing change (exact change in some places) I think more people would use it, but as it is it's really hard work to get the bus.
The fact that my oyster card doesn't extend outside of London is a big factor when deciding between going by train or driving. It just adds an extra layer of faff to go to a ticket office and by a ticket, if at a weekend it can be a 20minute queue just to get to a ticket machine, or you could just let me touch out at the other end instead of making it too much of a frustrating, time wasting exercise to go by train that I'll just drive instead.
I never minded an infrequent bus in Leicester so long as I knew when it was coming, but once I got old enough to drive it was cheaper to drive and pay for parking in the city centre than it was for the bus fare. I used it more in Birmingham but only when I lived on a very frequent route and got a bus pass - too much effort always needed exact change otherwise. An app with times would help out when buses are late, or you don't happen to know the time table off the top of your head.
London it's so easy, it helps they are very frequent, but I don't need change, I just use my oyster card, which requires minimum effort on my part (I have it set to auto top up, it's a bit more faff if you always need to top it up), if I want to know when a bus is coming I can chose from several apps giving me the information, or the tfl website which publishes the information live. Other bus companies have this information, I guess they just don't feel it has any value in making it easily available to everyone else.
Of course there are a lot more people on the buses in London which allows it to be a lot cheaper - since the latest price rises a single journey anywhere is £1.35, with a daily 'cap' of £4.20 (if paying by oyster, and the only reason not to pay by oyster is because you're an idiot or you've lost your oyster card). It's also used - At rush hour you might have to wait 10 minutes because the first 3 buses that went past were too full to get any more people on, even outside of rush hour the buses have plenty of people on.
The rest of the country really could learn from TFL.
I have an app on my phone that tells me when the next buses are coming. In other places you can sometimes get this information on screens at some bus stops, or text to find out, everywhere it should be by app.
And everywhere should support smart card use.
They make it far too much effort to get on the bus, if you had an app saying exactly when the bus was coming and could pay by smart card instead of needing change (exact change in some places) I think more people would use it, but as it is it's really hard work to get the bus.
The fact that my oyster card doesn't extend outside of London is a big factor when deciding between going by train or driving. It just adds an extra layer of faff to go to a ticket office and by a ticket, if at a weekend it can be a 20minute queue just to get to a ticket machine, or you could just let me touch out at the other end instead of making it too much of a frustrating, time wasting exercise to go by train that I'll just drive instead.
I never minded an infrequent bus in Leicester so long as I knew when it was coming, but once I got old enough to drive it was cheaper to drive and pay for parking in the city centre than it was for the bus fare. I used it more in Birmingham but only when I lived on a very frequent route and got a bus pass - too much effort always needed exact change otherwise. An app with times would help out when buses are late, or you don't happen to know the time table off the top of your head.
London it's so easy, it helps they are very frequent, but I don't need change, I just use my oyster card, which requires minimum effort on my part (I have it set to auto top up, it's a bit more faff if you always need to top it up), if I want to know when a bus is coming I can chose from several apps giving me the information, or the tfl website which publishes the information live. Other bus companies have this information, I guess they just don't feel it has any value in making it easily available to everyone else.
Of course there are a lot more people on the buses in London which allows it to be a lot cheaper - since the latest price rises a single journey anywhere is £1.35, with a daily 'cap' of £4.20 (if paying by oyster, and the only reason not to pay by oyster is because you're an idiot or you've lost your oyster card). It's also used - At rush hour you might have to wait 10 minutes because the first 3 buses that went past were too full to get any more people on, even outside of rush hour the buses have plenty of people on.
In reply to Cypher:
I moved onto a main bus route last year and promptly sold my car. It does what it says. Provides (relatively) cheap transport which is almost stress free compared with driving a car into the city centre every day. Problems are mostly because of the other passengers. It is dirty, smelly, and noisy. And that's on the INSIDE.
But...No Fuel costs, no insurance premiums, no car tax, no maintenance,no traffic jam stress.
Would I go back? Emphatically NO.
I moved onto a main bus route last year and promptly sold my car. It does what it says. Provides (relatively) cheap transport which is almost stress free compared with driving a car into the city centre every day. Problems are mostly because of the other passengers. It is dirty, smelly, and noisy. And that's on the INSIDE.
But...No Fuel costs, no insurance premiums, no car tax, no maintenance,no traffic jam stress.
Would I go back? Emphatically NO.
In reply to Cypher:
Only losers take the bus.
Always a nightmare leaving London via it's cheap(ish) and brilliant public transportation system to come to standstill in a provincial city centre waiting an hour for a bus after 6 in the evening - and giving up and spending half the train fare on taxis to get out of the way of circling chavs and tango girls and the stench of takeaways. Is is that just Bolton?
D
Only losers take the bus.
Always a nightmare leaving London via it's cheap(ish) and brilliant public transportation system to come to standstill in a provincial city centre waiting an hour for a bus after 6 in the evening - and giving up and spending half the train fare on taxis to get out of the way of circling chavs and tango girls and the stench of takeaways. Is is that just Bolton?
D
>
> They make it far too much effort to get on the bus, if you had an app saying exactly when the bus was coming and could pay by smart card instead of needing change (exact change in some places) I think more people would use it, but as it is it's really hard work to get the bus.
> ]
> They make it far too much effort to get on the bus, if you had an app saying exactly when the bus was coming and could pay by smart card instead of needing change (exact change in some places) I think more people would use it, but as it is it's really hard work to get the bus.
> ]
this is a very good point! Bus companies either give very little of a float to drivers, or the drivers have to provide their own (some in Manchester anyway) so the most a driver is usually carrying is £40.
With a weekly ticket being about £12-15 I think (I cycle so it's beena while) it doesn't take many £20 notes to be handed over before they're out of cash.
Leading to arguements with bus drivers kicking off at passengers who get on with a £5 note for a £2 fare.
Why don't the bus companies learn that
1/ cash machines don't give out coins
2/ shops don't like giving away all their change either, nor do we want to have to go buy chewing gum with a £10 each time we need to get a bus
3/ most people have the internet so could pay online to update a travel card or something, and big end of the line centres for busses could easily have a few machines.
BAH! public sodding transport <grumble>
In reply to thin bob:
The folk singer Fred Wedlock used to have a song about Bristol Buses with the lines "Oh we love you Bristol Buses in your British Racing Green,
tearing through the streets of Bristol often heard but never seen"!
> (In reply to doz generale)
> £3.50!! blimey! I'd expect to drive it for that much....
> How is that justified? is is that expensive to run or are the buses half empty?
> £3.50!! blimey! I'd expect to drive it for that much....
> How is that justified? is is that expensive to run or are the buses half empty?
The folk singer Fred Wedlock used to have a song about Bristol Buses with the lines "Oh we love you Bristol Buses in your British Racing Green,
tearing through the streets of Bristol often heard but never seen"!
In reply to Cypher: buses in Swansea are a bit of a joke too.
I live 1.6 miles from the city centre and it costs £2.30 on the bus and the only run every half hour at rush hour and every hour up to 10 pm.
It's crazy to charge so much for a journey that you can do on foot in 25 min, especially when you'll probably have to wait 15 min or more for the bus to arrive.
I live 1.6 miles from the city centre and it costs £2.30 on the bus and the only run every half hour at rush hour and every hour up to 10 pm.
It's crazy to charge so much for a journey that you can do on foot in 25 min, especially when you'll probably have to wait 15 min or more for the bus to arrive.
Buses here regularly just pass bt stops for no other reason that there is another bus at the stop or the driver needs to make up lost time on his route. If I was dossing about this wouldn't me much of an issue but for needing to get places on time it is a no no unless you get a bus from a main station, and even then there is no guarantee (given not all reasons are the drivers fault). Plus there is nothing worse than a hot steamy packed bus and someone is sitting eating a chippy or something.
In reply to Scarab9:
The solution to this is Oyster-style pre-pay cards, or even accepting Visa PayWave etc. (The long-term plan for Oyster is to also allow these types of card to be used).
But even now, 10 journey cards etc would be useful. I use the bus from time to time but not often, and it's always annoying when I have no change and have to go to the shop first to be sure of being able to use the bus. Would be happy to keep a 10 journey card or book of tickets in my wallet.
Neil
The solution to this is Oyster-style pre-pay cards, or even accepting Visa PayWave etc. (The long-term plan for Oyster is to also allow these types of card to be used).
But even now, 10 journey cards etc would be useful. I use the bus from time to time but not often, and it's always annoying when I have no change and have to go to the shop first to be sure of being able to use the bus. Would be happy to keep a 10 journey card or book of tickets in my wallet.
Neil
In reply to toad:
Exact money only is not a benefit. Getting ticketing off the bus (be that through books of tickets, or through Oyster style cards, or mobile phone ticketing) is the way to go. Then so few people pay cash that giving them change is not an issue.
Bus companies also need to simplify fares, so a poster can be shown at the stop. Zonal fares, or completely flat fares in small towns, is the way to go.
Neil
Exact money only is not a benefit. Getting ticketing off the bus (be that through books of tickets, or through Oyster style cards, or mobile phone ticketing) is the way to go. Then so few people pay cash that giving them change is not an issue.
Bus companies also need to simplify fares, so a poster can be shown at the stop. Zonal fares, or completely flat fares in small towns, is the way to go.
Neil
In reply to Cypher: Hassle vs cost for me just doesn't justify taking the bus. It's more hassle for essentially a marginally cheaper journey, at best. Petrol in to town and back ~£2. Parking for 2 hours - £2 ish. £4 return trip. Bus £3.50 rtn, total saving 50p, plus the journey is longer than driving. If I saved £2 every time it would be worth it. Slash the prices and I'd take the bus everywhere. Timetables don't bother me much, providing they are easy to get to grips with.
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Though there has to be a way to deal with journeys difficult by bus that will *always* be difficult by bus.
Going on topic, my house (West Bletchley, MK) to Big Rock Climbing (Kingston, MK) is about an hour by bus, 30-40 minutes by pushbike, or 8 minutes by car. No contest, unfortunately. The only way you'll get that even vaguely acceptable is by co-ordinating connections, which is something that UK bus companies seem utterly uninterested in. You even get charged twice if you have to change buses because *they* don't provide a direct bus - even the US gets that one right and gives free transfers.
I'm pro public transport as a whole, but the appalling way it is run in the UK causes it to be hard for me to fit my life around it myself, let alone encourage others to use it.
Neil
Though there has to be a way to deal with journeys difficult by bus that will *always* be difficult by bus.
Going on topic, my house (West Bletchley, MK) to Big Rock Climbing (Kingston, MK) is about an hour by bus, 30-40 minutes by pushbike, or 8 minutes by car. No contest, unfortunately. The only way you'll get that even vaguely acceptable is by co-ordinating connections, which is something that UK bus companies seem utterly uninterested in. You even get charged twice if you have to change buses because *they* don't provide a direct bus - even the US gets that one right and gives free transfers.
I'm pro public transport as a whole, but the appalling way it is run in the UK causes it to be hard for me to fit my life around it myself, let alone encourage others to use it.
Neil
In reply to Neil Williams:
Slight correction having put it in a journey planner, the bus during the day can match the pushbike time (40 mins). In the evening or on a Sunday, 45. The hour was from where I used to live. Plus 5 minutes to walk across from Kingston Tesco, and probably 15-20 on the way home because you can't trust them not to run early.
It's still too slow, as a result I tend to cycle if I have time, or drive if not.
Neil
Slight correction having put it in a journey planner, the bus during the day can match the pushbike time (40 mins). In the evening or on a Sunday, 45. The hour was from where I used to live. Plus 5 minutes to walk across from Kingston Tesco, and probably 15-20 on the way home because you can't trust them not to run early.
It's still too slow, as a result I tend to cycle if I have time, or drive if not.
Neil
In reply to EeeByGum:
Really?
No need for an Operator's Licence then?
No checks by VOSA?
No submission of routes to the Traffic Commissioner?
No regular or "spot" inspections to judge the quality of the vehicles and/or service provided.
Damn!
I must have been doing it wrong all these years!
> (In reply to Cypher) The problem is that anyone can set up a bus company. Once don't there is nothing that dictates how good your service should be.
>
>
Really?
No need for an Operator's Licence then?
No checks by VOSA?
No submission of routes to the Traffic Commissioner?
No regular or "spot" inspections to judge the quality of the vehicles and/or service provided.
Damn!
I must have been doing it wrong all these years!
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
yup its the mix of being damned expensive and unreliable which puts me off
> 40 mins later ... that's not really the amount of leeway you'd allow for a 25 minute journey.
yup its the mix of being damned expensive and unreliable which puts me off
In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:
Said licencing regime does not prevent the service in a good number of parts of the country being, bluntly, complete rubbish.
In particular, early running on evening services is rife. This is a big bugbear of mine, as it results in long waits or big taxi bills. Early running is *never, ever* acceptable, but at these times of day drivers tend to get away with it.
GPS tracking helps, but smaller, less reputable bus companies that tend to run "cheapest option" tenders tend not to have it or don't bother checking it unless someone complains, and people don't complain because they feel nothing will be done, because usually nothing *is* done.
Hopefully your company is better, of course. But the licensing and checking regime does not work.
Neil
Said licencing regime does not prevent the service in a good number of parts of the country being, bluntly, complete rubbish.
In particular, early running on evening services is rife. This is a big bugbear of mine, as it results in long waits or big taxi bills. Early running is *never, ever* acceptable, but at these times of day drivers tend to get away with it.
GPS tracking helps, but smaller, less reputable bus companies that tend to run "cheapest option" tenders tend not to have it or don't bother checking it unless someone complains, and people don't complain because they feel nothing will be done, because usually nothing *is* done.
Hopefully your company is better, of course. But the licensing and checking regime does not work.
Neil
In reply to Neil Williams:
To add to that, the regime requiring 56 days' notice doesn't work for the passenger. You can't build your life around bus services that change as often as they commonly do.
Neil
To add to that, the regime requiring 56 days' notice doesn't work for the passenger. You can't build your life around bus services that change as often as they commonly do.
Neil
In reply to Neil Williams:
You are, sadly, right in your observations.
However, I urge you and as many folks as possible to complain about poor service.
The Traffic Commissioner does have the power to suspend services and to refuse the fuel duty rebates some operators are able to claim.
There are regularly cases where action has been taken against operators.
You are, sadly, right in your observations.
However, I urge you and as many folks as possible to complain about poor service.
The Traffic Commissioner does have the power to suspend services and to refuse the fuel duty rebates some operators are able to claim.
There are regularly cases where action has been taken against operators.
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