UKC

I'm thinking of buying a camper van and would appreciate ideas on the base vehicle to help narrow down options. VW California or Transporter are the obvious options, but I'm sure there are others out there...

- Used for a family of 4 (2 young kids who can sleep in a pop top) plus my own adventures

- Will need to be used as a day-to-day vehicle and ideally fit into multi-storey car parks

- I'd be looking for a van already converted, but done professionally - I won't be able to sell a thermarest and some plywood to my wife...

Thanks in advance

Mainly posting to counter the dislikes, campers and climbers go together like carrot and coriander, there's definitely a place for talking about them on a climbing forum.

I have been secretly planning a stealth camper by pointing out Ford Transit custom L1H2's to my wife whilst driving on the motorway and saying things like "I bet I could convert one if those into a really comfortable camper van for our retirement, we could do lots of walking and visit lots of interesting places."

It's probably a few years off, and I can't decide between the long or short wheelbase, but I reckon it's the best base vehicle for me, toying with fancy aerogel insulation and I could get to stand upright between the roof ribs!

I bought my first campervan last year, so here are a few thoughts.

No 1 is budget. How much have you got? You can do a van yourself for a few grand or spend £50k+. You need to set a figure and not look at anything over that.

No 2. VW or not VW? I went VW. They are the nicest to drive - especially if it's your only vehicle, good resale value, everyone's got one. But, you can be paying around £10k for that VW badge. That's a lot of money for something that's just a nice to have. Try and drive some non-VW vans if you can. If you are happy with one you can save a lot of money.

If you wan't to get into car parks you need a pop-top. Forget high tops.

For four people I'd go LWB. We are three and a dog and we decided a SWB with the bed down was just too cramped. I don't find the extra length a problem and can always find a space in supermarkets etc. I don't use the van as a daily vehicle though, and rarely park it on the street.

I found a couple of conversion companies locally and went to look at their sales models and second hand vans. I'd definitely recommend this, as you can get a good idea of the things that are important to you, and the huge variation in build quality that is out there. The converters I visited were selling their own vans secondhand, traded in by customers who'd bought a new one. I'd say this would be one of the safest ways of buying a secondhand camper, so worth looking into.

here is my personal experience: I have bougth a Toyota Granvia, (grey Import, but basically the same as a Hiace) converted professinally so the inside is basically the same as a VW. My tought is that, unless you are prepared to spend a lot for a recent one, old VW are not such a good drive, unless you are into vintage vehicles. My friend lent me his VW, Westfalia to go around italy just before I bought mine (slow, noisy, non fuel efficient). I than rented a new VW for a few days in cornwall and it was great (but unaffordable to buy for me).The toyota I own now drive as a car, has power steering, air con, blue tooth, retractable mirror, etc.

Same as you, the wife had to approve it and she loves it. She drives it to work every day, we use it for family holidays and I go away with it for climbing trips every second weekend or so 

I have spent 10.000 to buy it and I expect that, unless the more collectable VW, it will lose value but I am very happy with it so I will probably drive it until i can climb!

I also found toyota to be very reliable and sturdy. in the 90's I had toured australia with a battered toyota Hiace that had an unbeleavable number or miles on the clock, it was passed from backpacker to backpacker (not famous for maintaining vehicles in tip top shape) and went around the continents a few times. we added 12.000 miles and never had a single problem on our journey, apart a flat tire.

My Hiace is now 20 yrs old and looks great, drives great, and does not give me any headhaches. I do service it regularly and spent about a 1000 pounds or so in the last 4 years on parts to be replaced. The conversion was still in guarantee when i bough it and is still looking smart and modern.

The only thing that i might change is the pop up roof. my reasoning was that I could fit on small country lane and any hight limited parking better, which is the case but with a rigid roof you eliminate the faffing of popping it up: sometimes, when we stop for a tea brake or lunch we do not bother to pop it up because of the faffing but than you can't stand up in it. I never had a rigid roof camper but, despite some limitation i think it might be more comfy.

Good luck with your hunt.

T5/similar is OK for 2 adults and 2 children, but you'll need ensure your conversion has as much storage as possible. Even then you'll need to "travel light". This might rule out Californias as they aren't over endowed in the storage department.

I had a T5 with pop top and eventually it had to go as it just wasn't big enough for my family of 4, but we are cyclists as well as climbers - we found on a long trip we could take the climbing gear or bikes and gear but there wasn't room for both.

I will say though, that we aren't ones for having bags lying around in the living area, even when travelling (everything must have its place!). And we don't use drive away awnings. If you're happy to do this, then you might have enough storage space in a T5.

I have a T5 that we converted, base vehicle was a Kombi, if i was converting again i would look at the Ford Transit Custom, our roofer had one done, looks really good and a good lump cheaper than a VW.

That's brilliant, thanks for all the ideas everyone.

Head over to vwt4forum.co.uk if you decide that VW is the way forward, more than enough info over there to answer any questions you may have

I've been thinking about a similar brief; 4 berth camper for family adventures. Don't want a motorhome, but should be able to cope with a reasonable amount of gear for cycling, climbing, surfing, maybe kayaking. 

Current conclusion (and I'd love to hear solutions) is that you can comfortably do a conversion with 4 seats and a bed for 2, with sufficient room for gear; but there doesn't seem to be a practical solution to 4 sleeping in the van unless you go for stacked beds and virtually no headroom.  

Do you then go with something smaller + awning or tent?

Do the sums correctly. You'll be depreciating an expensive camper using it for day-to-day commuting. In summer you could camp, are there really that many advantages to a camper? Compare it with getting a decent sized family vehicle, good tent or two, and spending some of the saving on a few nights in proper accommodation.

I can't see them making much sense unless you plan to have a lot of wet weekends in remote locations. 

Why do people buy anything? Because they’re fun. If it all came down to practicalities and costs we all wear beige jumpsuits, shave our heads, eat only protein shakes and supplements and never go anywhere other than our homes and place of work. 

I bought a van a couple of months back. This post comes to you from it in a Spanish car park. Me and my girlfriend are living in the van, climbing and surfing, until Nov.

I ended up getting a pop top because I'm tall and it's great to be able to stand up in it (which I can't do in some of the rigid high tops, making the extra height pointless). It's a VW T5. Part of the reason I went for a VW is the fuel economy is good, better than some of the other contenders based on the info I could find out. It was surprisingly hard to get reliable data on fuel economy on any vans.

You could buy a van and get a pop top put in. It costs between £2,500 - £3,000 and when I enquired back in July there was a wait of 6 weeks. The companies seem to only want to put pop tops on certain models of van. I've learned that not all pop tops are created equal - some lift along the length, some at the front, some at the back. Some lift higher than others too.

Any pop top will lose heat through the canvas so aren't a good option for cold places.

I met a couple at a crag here who have a converted Mercedes Sprinter. Their conversion is incredible, and I've heard good things about Sprinters as base vehicles from other places too.

Mazda Bongos were initially tempting because cheaper than others, but then I viewed one and the bed was 130cm long which is just silly.

I am thinking camper vans.
The advice I have been given is think Layout, Layout then Layout. 
Then go to the Motorhome show in October, sans credit card.
And use this forum https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/
 

We looked for ages, even considered a Bongo, but eventually spent more than intended and bought a converted secondhand T5 with a pop top. Haven't regretted it for a second.

Ok the VWs are more expensive but 12 months in we are sure it's worth it. The size means its small enough to feel like a normal car, especially when you're looking for a parking space, but its a very comfortable camp too.

Be organised, buy a couple of plastic boxes too for "stuff" and they are plenty big enough! 

Rent one for a week or a long weekend and you'll discover all your likes and dislikes. We rented a new vw california for a couple of weeks and found it great to drive and brilliantly thought out but very flimsy - and far too expensive. Ended up getting a Trafic and a pro conversion incorporating as many features of the cali as we could.

Just remember the golden rules of campervanning:

1) Drive everywhere at 35 mph, the more people you can hold up the better

2) Use the word "adventure" to describe a weekend away in the UK

3) Tell everyone you're going away in the van this weekend

4) Park in laybys on main roads (e.g. Llanberis Pass) and eschew the virtues of "getting away from it all", surrounded by at least 5 others doing the same

5) Leave shit (literal and metaphorical) all over the environments you claim to love

6) Spend at least as much on the van as you would on 30 overseas holidays

7) Get a VW just so everyone knows how cool you are

8) Sell it for a massive loss in 5 years when staying in a van becomes uncool again and the market is saturated with people trying to offload their "adventuremobiles"

That's a very unfair statement. 

With good budgeting you could probably manage 45 holidays...

Helpful. Or alternatively 

1) Get a smaller one which drives like a car and fits in a standard parking space

2) Get to places that dont require any sense of adventure, just an appreciation of how beautiful they are. 

3) Only decide at 2200 on Friday night you are going away, tell noone and enjoy the feeling of a totally unexpected "holiday" even if it is only for two days.

4) Go cheap cheap campsite...maybe a fiver a night and use the dodgy chemical loo with an almost psychopathic grin on your face.

5) See no4 and if you do stop not on a site then pick up anyone elses rubbish as well as yours before you leave. Nice warm fuzzy feeling when you do that. 

6) Pick the van wisely and find that there are places far nicer in the UK than abroad and that require far less of your precious time off work to see them than getting on a plane.

7) Get a VW so that it holds its value well. If you want to be cool, get a surfboard and learn how to use it properly. Otherwise be happy being not cool.

8) Enjoy every minute of it. Life is too short not to.

RE:

It was a joke

Edit: Everyone knows the real way to become cool is to buy a leather jacket and take up smoking

I've got a Renault Trafic LWB.  'Semi-converted' (i.e there's nothing in there that I can't get out in 10 minutes if a ever need a load lugger).  Thought about fitting a side awning but couldn't be bothered as a tarp over the tailgate pegged out gives plenty of shelter.  Decided I didn't want to pay £10k for the badge on the bonnet   Drives great; Bluetooth, built in satnav, phone system blh blah.  About 44 mpg on a long gentle run.

Luxurious for two and, of course, a pop-up tent under the awning provides more sleep space.

Again, thanks for the useful comments, lots to ponder...

Wouldn't you be cooler without the jacket ? 

Not being an expert in any way on camper bans we have noticed some adverts for this Ventura camper van popping up - looks like a good price for a new van compared to VW

www.venturacampers.co.uk 

P.S. I’m nowt to do with them - just passing on the message.

There's nothing cool about shivering/stinking of piss/ingesting sea water/delayed nose water/sea weed in your hair/nearly drowning/board headers/reef headers - which is 99% of surfing and anyone that disagrees isn't a surfer. 

There's a name for this? I thought I was the only one! 

When I was much younger I was chatting up this nice lady at the checkout on my way back from a session. Then my nose emptied itself all down my t shirt. No more needs to be said 

They look nice but there is a reason why they have more space than a T5, that’s because they are bigger than a T5, also it’s about 500mm higher than a T5 so a daily driver it ain’t, but for an additional vehicle as as a camper they look pretty good value.

If thats 99% of the surfing you do then maybe try another hobby?

Yes, guilty, i am a surfer but only for the last 20 years so not a proper one. 

Crucially I disagree with my own post. 

Ps I surfed La Palue today and it was epic

Any van will be a compromise... Write up a list of pros and cons of each, try to give them a personal inpirtance weighting, and you might see a decision emerge.

Personally, VWs are very narrow, which makes them feel very cramped living quarters. A larger SWB van (I have a citroen relay) still fits in a standard supermarket parking space, which makes it fine for daily use, but is much roomier inside, which is much more important to me than how it drives or what badge is on the front. Wide and square walls, and reliability were my main criteria.