UKC

First of all congratulations to them (that was painfull being a red) but will they make it into the final stages i.e get past the pre season qualifying.

A great achievment for them none the less.

any thoughts?

In reply to Tom M Williams:

If Liverpool can get into the final then Everton should be able to win the World Cup,Super Cup and Super Bowl !

What's that 11 or 12 away defeats this season for the reds.More the WBA !

I agree with Wenger,Liverpool getting into the champions league is like Millwall getting to the cup final last year.

It's easy to sneer at the blue half of the Mersey but could any manager top David Moyes achievement in taking a relegation fancied,cash strapped club torn apart by boardroom fueds and 16 players including boy wonder walking away, into the champions league.

Liverpool executive Rick Parry claims that Rafa the Gaffer is the best manager in the world.

Oh really !

In reply to Jim Smith:

Ok so its turned into liverpool bashing already.

so the fact that liverpool have beaten some of the best sides in europe (inc chelsea who everyone said whould walk it) is all down to luck is it?

Any how you missed my point. with there piss poor squad will the cope?

In reply to Jim Smith:

I think arsen "hole" wenger is green with envey!

We (pool) put out 3 top teams ( possibly 2 of the best in the competition.)

Ok we rode our luck, but doesnt every team need a bit of luck.Look at Manu in 99?

When( being positive) we win the cup we get to keep it as it will be the 5th time.no other club in the uk comes anywhere near that.fact.

Arsen wenger needs to go back to school... he is still the pupil as far as European football is concerned, and a very poor one at that!

In reply to Alan:
Oh, and good luck to Everton...the table speaks for itself.

In reply to Tom M Williams: why? why does ho wfar they get matter?

The fact is after 38 games they are better than liverpool. For all the Carraghers great etc, the liverpool defence conceded 3 more today, and gerrad forst half was unnoticeable, that is why I would rather have keane, vieira (sometimes) or lampard, they have greater consistency.

as said 12 is it now? away defeats, man U 4 in total. Chelsea 1, arsenal 2 or 3? anyway what ever it is, there is a big gap. Everton have shown they are better this season than liverpool. If Liverpool can reach the final why can't everton. Luck of the draw can get you an easy qualifier, another good draw an easy group, then you never know.

I am glad the FA kept their word and allowed evertons qualification to the CL, I also think the champions should defend their trophy, but are the champions of europe the team who win the CL (now reverting to a cup set up)? How that will work I don't know, too many games really.

Really I think the best way would be to have a league, because while the cups are nmore exciting, upsets happen, in a league consitency is more important, and you play everyone.

In england the champions are the ones who win the league, not win the FA cup. So the league (38) games should be a better judge of a team than the CL.

Also claiming liverpool didnt get 4th becasue of the CL is no excuse.

Chelsea won the league also winning the carling cup, and the semis of the CL, Man U got to the semis of the carling cup, 2nd stage of the CL, final of the FA cup, arsenal also in the final, 2nd stage of the CL. Thats just English football, too many games. Fergie has been saying this for 15 years, everyone else just said stop moaning, now there are 4 other clubs being affected, suddenly its important again.

The league wont get reduced to 18, the premier league wont vite that in, why would blackburn, fulham, portsmouth et al. vote in something that will get two more relegated.

Cheers

Iain

PS I am not trying to play down liverpools achievement, if they win the deserve it, but in cups upsets happen, thats the beauty though. but, When did a team last win the league who you can say werent the best team over the season?

In reply to Alan:

If...and it's a big if,Liverpool were to win in Istanbul and then not be able to defend the trophy. A lot of people would see that as poetic justice for Heysel and Liverpool negative influence on English football in that period.

Mind you,I think Liverpool are pretty rubbish anyway so winning the Euro Cup is academic !

In reply to Tom M Williams: Eh? So liverpool bashing is wrong, but saying everton are pish poor isnt,

Their Pish poor squad got the better of you over 38 games. so why cant they emulate you? They have 20 million (rooney money) to spend.

Yes luck is involved, like Man U 99, I think we deserved our luck that season, as we faught and faught, a game is 93+ minutes long, you play for that time period. That season we never gave up, ever. And even though we rode our luck, we then came back and scored two. Look at lampards miss? but the fact is people miss chances, you then have to take yours. Look at Man U V WBA last night, we hammered them, yet didnt score a second, then they stole in and nicked a point, lucky? possibly? but you deal with what happens, we didnt finish them off, they were on the ropes but bounced back to get a point, and so deserved it.

In reply to Jim Smith:

How can people bang on about events 20 YEARS AGO and expect to be taken seriously.

I was 16 yrs old and a remember the events in Heysel all to well. It was a terrible night and lessons should, and i think in the main have been learned( certanily by British clubs)

Liverpool fans were not known for violence and anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong,in fact they had one of the best reputations in eroupe.

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

One thing about Man U fans.They can be a pretty arrogant bunch but at least they've got a half decent team.
Liverpool fans are arrogant when they've got nothing to be arrogant about.

I've been listening to them on the phone ins and on the forums and they just can't accept being second best on Merseyside.
All the snide remarks,the sarcastic put downs.

Do you lot realise how stupid you look. If Everton are rubbish then what does that make Liverpool ?

In reply to Alan: Well I partially agree, but liverpool have been involved in two disasters, so they ahve a bad reputation.

I also think 20 years ago doesnt matter, but at the start of the season the top 4 qualified.

Turn it the other way round, Man U finish 5th, and win the CL, liverpool 4th?

what would your call be?

honestly here?

In reply to Jim Smith: I hope you arent classifying me a liverpool fan? I'm united.

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

I think the rule of top 4 should stand and rightly so,as i said my hat goes off to the toffs, they've done really well,but i think the powers that be should allow some kind of rule to allow defending champions to enter again( but there again they dont in the world cup now do they?)

In reply to Alan: no, I do think that's different though, there is a 4 year gap, so the same team doesnt defend the title (generally).

I do think the champions should defend it, but the rules were they dont, you have to qualify, how do they change now, rule out another team who qualified rightly?

Liverpool knew what they had to do in August. now isnt the time to shout the odds.

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

Hard to find the right answer.Dont suppose these circumstances have come up before.

I'd love to see Liverpool defend the cup( if they win it) but rules are rules i suppose ;(

We've just got to be better next season and thats the bottom line.

In reply to Alan: Thats very honest of you.

I think even the reddest of red fans know that losing that many games is a problem. Raffas a good manager, but to compete I think they need more than just 1 or 2 players.

A few strikers, OK Cisse has been injured but Baros has been given his chance and his strike rate is just too poor. People attacked Coley at united but the facts were he scored once every two games. I know people say there is more to some attackers than goals, but even sherringham would still rack up 10-20 goals a season, while contributing much to his partner.

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

By pish poor i ment in numbers not quality. i'm not having a go at everton at all how could i?

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

I think that comment is a well below the belt.

Hillsbourogh was liverpools fault was it and they diserve a bad reputation for it do they?

In reply to Jim Smith:

yeah all the rubbish teams of europe get to the final.

In reply to Tom M Williams: Agree - Iain - that's a pretty stupid thing to say about Hillsborough. You're not a journalist on the Sun by any chance are you?

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

Obviously the changes that came about after the disaster suggest that blame lies not all in one corner but lots of things contributed.

my point is i don't believe liverpool fans have a bad reputation because of hillsbourogh. in fact i don't think they do full stop.

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

I guess getting anything possitive about Liverpool is pretty hard these days by anyone bar there fans.

Fact is they have under achieved since the premier league started

In reply to Tom M Williams: Sorry I have deleted most of my posts, I stand by what I said, but can't be arsed dealing with personal attacks, and its a very emotive subject, understandably.

Its not all doom and gloom, look at wednesday, leeds, forest etc.

Houllier was a false dawn though, and I think he raised fans expectations with the treble then it fell flat, there is a desperation their now, which like at Man U in the late 80's, doesnt really help.

In reply to Iain Ridgway:


On that point i totaly agree.


and as usuall the post goes well off the point

In reply to andy: I suggest you look back at my original post.

All I said was involved in two tragedies. why is that stupid?

In reply to Tom M Williams:

Hard to stifle a wry smile given the fact that until a few weeks ago Benitez and Gerrard were telling the media that they would gain 4th spot because they are a better side than Everton.
A lot of Liverpudlians have been insufferably arrogant and condescending about Everton's achievements which far outweigh anything achieved by Chelsea given the disparity in wealth and talent.
Liverpool have spent a lot of money creating a mediocre team which could finish 7th yet a lot of them are sarcastically trilling about how Everton won't get passed the qualifiers.
Why so ?
If a crap team like Liverpool can reach the final then I'm bloody sure Everton can !

By the way.The final is a one off.No Anfield leg. Given The Reds' appalling away form who in their right mind would bet on them beating Rochdale let alone AC Milan !

In reply to Jonno:



Liverpools money spent has been sat in the physio room incase you hadn't noticed.

Liverpools champions league away record can hardly be described as that appauling. Anyway its a final as you quite rightly put it so anything can happen.

In know way have i tryed to belittle evertons achievements its fantastic what they have done all i asked was a simple question which should have had a simple (if varied) answer.

Do you actually watch football??

In reply to Tom M Williams: Thats not too true, OK you hae had injuries, but so have chelsea, Robben, Drogba.

Kewell hasnt been fit mentally more than anything, Baros just poor, nunez? not good. morientes, not the same player as at monaco, Cisse OK broken leg, but was he on fire before then? did your results suddenly drop then?

The only real injury has been alonso, he affected your team, but the others weren't key players. Gerrard hasnt been out for long has he?

OF the new players anyway, only alonso has been missing. But even that doesnt explain your poor peague placing.. All the top teams have had bad injuries thsi year, arsenal (gilberto, Campbell) chelsea (robben, drogba) United (Rio ban, Ruud, Saha). But you just have to cope.

You like us have dropped too many points against the weaker teams in the league, thats been the problem.

In reply to Jim Smith:


Millwall beat Tranmere in the QFs, so that puts Tranmere on a par with Juventus....

Yep, fair enough...

Still, I reckon Liverpool will do better than Everton in next season's UEFA cup, which is where they'll both end up

In reply to Iain Ridgway:

How many of these players were benitez's signings tho? he needs time to rebuild the team.

I think peoples expectations of liverpool were far too high for this season.

The summer transfer window should be interesting and we will have to see what happens next year.

In reply to Iain Ridgway: I did read it, Iain - and the one it was in response to - which stated that Liverpool fans were widely recognised as being relatively well behaved in terms of violence (and that Heysel was 'out of character). You then responded by saying they were involved in two tragedies, which you feel is in some way significant - one of which is Hillsborough, implying that their poor behaviour was to blame for the tragedy - not something which I believe was ever suggested by official enquiries into what happened, which was mainly down to poor stadium design and pitchside fencing.

Your post was stupid (imho) because you attempted to link the yobs that caused Heysel with the people involved in Hillsborough.

In reply to andy: I dont want to go into this as if we debate others will get involved and it will turn nasty due to the emotions connected with such an event.

But all I said, and i stand by that, was outside of the UK there will have been that thought, it was what 4-5? years later? nothing really, that's like thinking back to the 2000 season, the same set of fans, not necessarily the same fans, I think people in belgium, Italy, juve fans, will just have thought, oh the liverpool fans are up to it again?

so going by that line of thinking I dont think it out of order, or stupid, to think the disaster will not of helped liverpools repuatation abroad. Leeds fans got a bad rep for whwat happened in Istanbul, yet were largely innocent, its just news coverage.

You also mention the official report, do you think this would have been widely reported outside of the UK?

I am pretty involved with this due to a number of personal reasons, which I dont want to go into in public, but while there was the stadium failures, standing etc, there were other factors. OK those factors shouldnt have resulted in so many deaths, but they were still there.

I think you read my post then decided what I meant, all I said was liverpool fans involved in 2 tragedies? no where did I mention yobs.

In reply to Tom M Williams: I dont think garcia has been good enough in the league, wasteful, OK he raises his game in the CL, as veron did for us, but that isnt enough, without the league you wont be in the CL as you are finding out now,

Do you have any money left? Houllier spent over 100 million didnt he?

also he decided to sell owen, and didnt replace him with quality, morientes hasnt been good enough (IMO).

anyway UEFA spokesman said to be announcing good news for liverpool today, no idea what it means?

Oh he has said they should be allowed to defend it, FA should ask for extra place if liverpool win.

Cheers

In reply to a LFC fan
"so the fact that liverpool have beaten some of the best sides in europe (inc chelsea who everyone said whould walk it) is all down to luck is it? "

Yes. Liverpool are the poorest side to get to a CL final since the new format.
And remember that Everton were about to compete in Europe 20 years ago ...... until Heysel caused a ban on English clubs. So some justice there.

In reply to Chris H:


I'm gonna leave this thred now coz i just seam to keep having to repeat myself, this was not a thred about liverpool if you hadn't noticed.

If everyone wants to slag off liverpools shite season and tell them they don't deserve to be in the final then so be it, but do it on another thred not the one about everton.

In reply to Chris H:



Can I say 'Hear Hear !