UKC

Saw an advert for Most Haunted on TV last night and quietly chuckled to myself as I reminisced about episodes I've seen before and how hilarious that Derek Akora (sp?) chap is with his 'communicating with the spirits' - but then I started to think that for some people it's not just entertainment for TV but more of a 'documentary' and that made me wonder what the general opinion of the great UKC is.

We have endless debates on here about religion so I'm sure there are views on this topic also.

In your opinion do ghosts and/or paranormal forces exist?

I don't believe they do, however, perhaps due to the Catholic early upbringing I wouldn't go near a ouija board if you paid me!

In reply to Hjonesy:

there is more to this world than we understand, however clver we believe ourselves to be

so yes

there is stuff we can't grasp and i'd like to think i'll keep an open mind.

In reply to Hjonesy:

Derren Brown has an interesting derek Acorah story in his book Tricks Of The Mind.
The guy is a total charlatan, but surrounds himself with believers.

In reply to Hjonesy:

Am totally sceptical however i did think i saw something once and even though i dont believe in the 'paranormal' i was quite mistified as to what it actually was.... could only conclude my eyes must have been fooling me

In reply to Hjonesy:

I remember at school the head master called an emergency assembly, reason being that three kids had gone out for lunch to one of their houses and were playing with an Ouija board and things started to fly around the house.... The kids were shook up big time..... We were all told not to play with them....

Also one of my sisters friends claimed there was a ghost living in their attic, they named him Sabastian..... He used to come down and cause havoc if he didn't like the guests in the house..... How true this was I don't know....

I guess I can't say if ghosts do or do not exist because I have never encountered one/it/thing/being but I have an open mind to these things.....

In reply to Hjonesy:

Every so-called "paranormal" phenomenon investigated to date has a plausible physical or psychological explanation.

And the usual one is "they're making it up."

In reply to KeithW:


The brain is a clever ol' thing to be able to sometimes convince us SO strongly as to what we've seen, felt, experienced that hasn't really happened though.

I've, in the past, thought I've seen some questionable stuff, but if I don't believe in the existence of heaven and hell, then how can I believe in ghosts?

In reply to Hjonesy:


Definitely, which is why you can't trust "eyewitness" accounts of seeing something strange.

In reply to KeithW:


And yet you rely entirely (and without complaint) on eye-witness accounts in almost every single area of your life. Or perhaps you disregard all the news and documentaries on TV and radio, all of written history and all of science, since all of those are reported by eye-witnesses?

Of course you don't, you only disregard those things you don't agree with. how very selective of you!

In reply to Hjonesy:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hjonesy, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

In reply to Hjonesy:

There's one thing i can't explain...went over it in my head time and again over the years but..just too weird.

My daughter when she was about 5 years old told me that she saw a man in her room and he told her he was watching over her and would never leave her. Now..she said this man was quite tall..had dark hair and a moustache and brown skin like mummy and that his name was Paddy and he had a big smile.

My dad had died just before he could meet Jade..( she was born a month later) so she hadn't met my father..didn't know his name as i couldn't talk about him for a long time after his death...definately didn't know he had a moustache or his height..so..basically knew nothing about this man but described him perfectly and had said she wasn't scared of the man as he felt like a nice man

Jade remembers it to this day as it was such a strange experience..she still smiles when she thinks of it and obviously knows now who the dark haired man with the moustache was.

Still can't explain this one.

In reply to Hjonesy:

never seen anything 'supernatural, but am open minded. i have actively looked as well.

i saw a docco on the idiot box that found in areas known for hauntings there were inaudible ultra low frequency sounds (geological in origin?) and that perhaps these could trigger sensations that most people would associate with being watched or 'spooked'

UFOs are a different matter though, have seen a UFO

Friends of mine in South Africa discovered an old Boer war cemetery in long grass near their place. They tidied it up and now visitors go there to look at the inscriptions. One vistor was there with her son aged about 6 when the boy asked his mum who the men were waiting for. She told him there weren't any men and he proceded to describe in great detail three soldiers, wearing British Boer war uniforms, who he could see lounging under a nearby tree, smoking.

In reply to Hjonesy:

On a rational basis, I have no idea, Ive seen no evidence either way!

Although as I am quite sure that I am an irrational being, if only for kicks, I suppose believe in ghosts and things. Why ever not? Theres a nice bit of excitement and mysticism right there to enjoy!

woooooooo!!

Mat

In reply to Ian:

Not knowing everything isn't an argument for believing in anything!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Oh and no, I don't believe in ghosts or the paranormal - an oxymoron since even if someone did produce some proof (no sign yet) it would be of the 'normal' universe.

Funny how ghosts are mostly reported at night......not.

I can't say I've ever had personal experience of ghosts or suchlike.

However, I know that over 400 people have reported experiences of the Mackenzie poltergeist in Greyfriars churchyard here in Edinburgh. Explaning away tat number of accounts as lies and delusions would be a bit of a stretch.

In reply to Hjonesy:


has anybody on her done a ouija board?

In reply to Hjonesy:

A version of the below appears in Surely You're Joking Mr Feynman and serves to caution to anyone who seeks a paranormal explanation for something.

"Another problem in assessing observations is the need to remember that relevant facts may remain unknown. Feynman offered a poignant anecdote about the death of his first wife. She died at 9:22 p.m., and her favorite clock, a gift from Feynman, had stopped at precisely that time. To some, it seemed a sign of the paranormal. But Feynman knew that the clock was old, with a digital face turned mechanically by wheels that tended to get stuck, especially when someone moved the clock. When Feynman's wife died, the nurse picked up the dock to check the time of death."

In reply to Bulls Crack:

People who go to see psychics should be taken round the back and given a good kicking for being so soft minded.

p.s.
Darren of New Mills, the inheritance is under the cat and your grandad thinks you're a kunt.

In reply to anansie:

I had a similar experience when i went to see a meduim for a laugh with work mates. She described a man who was watching over me and suggested it might be my grandad. I described him to my dad thinking that it was his dad, my dad hates any mumbo jumbo mystic crap and said it sounded nothing like him then told me off for being daft. later that night he came downstairs looking a bit shaken and said it actually described my mums dad perfectly, he died when i was v young and i dont remember him. V odd. All the other stuff she told me was rubbish though

In reply to niggle:

Could that not be explained by an earlier posters geological impulses theory (or whatever it was)?

Also, let's not forget that some people who are aware of the 'phenomenon' might be more easily self-tricked into thinking they saw/felt/experienced something...

In reply to Wez Johnson:

Having said I wouldn't go near one if you paid me was a slight exaggeration as I DID do one at uni with some friends when we were a bit tipsy. Scared the hell out of me and I woke up for frequent nights afterwards talking to a 'shadowed figure' at the end of my bed (we'd done the ouija board in my room). Although I don't believe that the ouija board was anything more than friends pratting around and that the 'shadowed figure' was anything more than the conjurings of my fruitful imagination, I've not played with one since!

In reply to Hjonesy:



When Dawkins consulted a medium who has appeared on daytime television and charges £50 for instant phone readings she said she could hear or see his father “on the other side”.

He did his best not to look surprised as she continued: “I’m aware of your father stood right behind you. “On a spiritual level he wasn’t the most openest man with his thoughts and his feelings. Ummm, I kind of want to say that I do love you and I do care – but that wouldn’t have been his character.” (Or that of many middle-class father figures of his generation, a sceptic might have said.)

But Dawkins let her continue. “I’m aware that you don’t have you dad’s photograph out” – it was true, he didn’t – “so I’m a little bit concerned why. So I’m going to ask you: why don’t you have it out?” Dawkins had a bombshell ready: “Well, he might be aware that I don’t have it out because he comes to the house about once a week.” “Oh, he’s still here,” she said, adding after a few seconds: “I don’t feel it’s working.”

“Is that because you thought my father is dead and discovered that he’s still alive?”

“No, nothing to do with that. I don’t know.”

She commented later: “As a clairvoyant you’re only as good as the client.”

In reply to Hjonesy:


If your geological impulses could be shown to kick, punch and bite people, yes.


You're only saying that because you've previously decided not to accept one particular explanation and so you've tricked yourself into thinking that didn't see/feel/experience something!

In reply to niggle:
I'm not saying I definitely *don't* believe, I just really struggle to believe it. If I could witness it I might be more convinced but am just aware that there are people out there who think the likes of Derek Ackora *actually* has dead people speaking through him!

Lol! Good one

In reply to Hjonesy:


Fair enough, and I'm not saying I definitely do believe. Some things like Derek Acorah I find quite unlikely. Other things like the Mackenzie Poltergeist I find almost impossible to dismiss.

In reply to Hjonesy:
stories of the supernatural are as old as man and were often used to explain what we can now explaing through a better understanding of the world and science. if there really is such a 'thing' as ghosts, isnt it about time we had conclusive evidence? in a world of several billion and hundreds of millions of cctv cameras, tourists with cameras etc, can we not see one clear cut image of an apparation? just one, not being greedy, just one example

In reply to Hjonesy:

Being as evidence is scarce at best this one comes down to belief:

Ghosts... No. I believe people really do experience 'ghosts' but not that they're anything to do with the dead, more tricks of an unfathomably complex and powerful mind.

'Paranormal'... Yes but only because one man's quantum physics is another man's paranormal. Likewise, the iPod touch... I saw one of these recently and am convinced (as an electronic engineer) that there must be whitchcraft of some sort involved*. So actually, what I really mean is no, there's nothing paranormal, just normal things we don't yet understand.

But hey, that's just my belief, I could be wrong.
jk

* Apple, I'm kidding, don't sue me

In reply to niggle:


Was trying to remember the name of an American 70's film I saw a few years ago - based on 'true events' - about a woman and her kids who become terrorised by a poltergeist and she's often raped by it.

Was really disturbing to watch and challenged my beliefs further but maybe she was just a whack job who had a few dodgy dreams and bullied her kids into telling her tales also?! Who knows...

Anybody know the film I mean??

In reply to jkarran:
Likewise, the iPod touch... I saw one of these recently and am convinced (as an electronic engineer) that there must be whitchcraft of some sort involved*.


Ha ha ha. Would love to see the protest outside the Apple store calling for the burning of all Ipod touchs'! ha ha ah

In reply to Hjonesy:
the Entity?

In reply to Hjonesy:
Logically and in the cold light of day i'd say, no Ghosts etc do not exist, but.....

In reality, I do think theres something out there. I'd also swear blind That my flat in Glasgow when I was a student was haunted.

we had a screwd on top fly off a juice bottle, bottles/jars fall off shelves, you'd occasionally feel that you were extremely unwelcome in a room, sometimes with a noticable temperature drop. My flatmate, some friends and myself had all from time to time seen a tall gangly mid stride in our periferal vision.

My flatmates sister stayed in the flat once, (she was on her own in my flatmates room, he slep on the couch), he poked his head round the door to tell her he was off to work (0900ish), he arrived back (1600) to find her still in bed, but wide awake, facing into the wall absolutely petrified. She swore blind that almost from when the front door closed she'd been able to hear a rasping breathing that seemed to be right behind her as she lay there and felt certain that someone was there.

We had a few other incidents, but thats the most strange, to my mind. I can understand how she could have got paranoid at night, when she was first waking up/half asleep etc, but she'd been lying there wide awake all day basically. not suprisingly she went home rather than stay another night (her original plan) and pretty much refused to stay in the flat again.

I'm sure that theres other possible explainations for each individual incident, but all of them combined makes you think...

To the earlier poster who used the fact that loads of people had experienced the same phenomenom in the same place as evidence, these things tend to self perpetuate as people go there expecting to see/hear them. Case in hand is the number of people who experience the haunting of Ben Alder Cottage, when they are in fact in Culra bothy, they just assume that its the hut they've heard tales about....

Stuart

In reply to ayuplass:

YES!! That's it!

Thanks.

In reply to Ozzrik:

bottles/jars fall off shelves, you'd occasionally feel that you were extremely unwelcome in a room, sometimes with a noticable temperature drop. My flatmate, some friends and myself had all from time to time seen a tall gangly mid stride in our periferal vision.

often had that in halls in the first year but that was mainly down to anti-social, penny-pinching clumsy pot-head housemates than paranormal activities!

In reply to ayuplass:

Sounds about right (not seen it though, and it's not a 70s film but early 80s)

I don't want to see a ghost
It's the sight that I fear most
I'd rather have a piece of toast

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

The "psychics" certainly should be - making a living out of exploiting the grief of vulnerable people. There's more decency picking up the tissues in a Soho peepshow.

In reply to Hjonesy:

<spots own spelling of witchcraft and hangs head in shame>

In reply to Blue Straggler:

classic Des'ree lyric there!

In reply to Hjonesy:
perhaps due to the Catholic early upbringing I wouldn't go near a ouija board if you paid me!

along with harking from East Anglia and what they do with witches and the like ?

In reply to ayuplass:
later that night he came downstairs looking a bit shaken and said it actually described my mums dad perfectly, he died when i was v young and i dont remember him. V odd. All the other stuff she told me was rubbish though


Odd indeed!

See...i don't believe in ghosts or psychics or any of that kinda stuff and i'd Love an explanation to what Jade saw...scunners me that i simply can't find one for it so..tis left just hangin' there.......

In reply to Hjonesy:

Definately believe in ghosts, I once got up to make a cup of tea for a resident at the old folks home where I worked nights. I was quite surprised when he wasn't there. My work partner soon reminded me that Billy had died a month before. It didn't frighten me, staff or other residents always saw those who had died shortly afterwards. We were quite used to it.
My Mum also saw or felt the presence of poeple who had died. 6 months after my father died, my niece, who was a little girl, told my sister she had just seen her Grandad next to Grandma. She said he smiled at her. My Mum just said "Oh yes Susie, he often comes."

In reply to Ozzrik:


Fruit juice never ferments, and gets fizzy, does it?


Vibrations from a lorry going past the house, or a minor earthquake that you were all to busy chatting, or watching tv, to feel - and they were close to the edge?

In reply to Dominion:

Fruit juice does ferment and get fizzy but I don't think it would unscrew a bottle top.

In reply to Toby S:

'whistle and i will come to you, my lad?'

cool

In reply to Dominion:
not in a student house, no.

In reply to various: it all boils down to evidence: there is absolutely none for ghosts. nver has been, never will be. there are stories that people tell, but these can be explained by the same mechanisms that give rise to derren brown's totally convincing "clairvoyance".

it's just your mind playing tricks...which should surprise no one!

In reply to Knitting Norah:

I used to make Elder Flower Champagne, in glass lemonade bottles. That could either explode the bottles, or send the screwtop 50 feet into the air...

In reply to Dominion:

Mum used to make ginger beer. One year we went away for two weeks so were not around to release the tops to let out the gas. As soon as we went near them they exploded one by one. Quite frightening but amusing too.

In reply to Knitting Norah:


That was something akin to evil spirits waiting for you to go near them, definitely!

In reply to Knitting Norah:

Maybe you just forgot?

Sorry Norah but you are not a convincing witness

In reply to DaveHK:

It doesn't worry me what you think, I know how real it was, I was there. Believe me or not I don't care. It was not meant to convince you just my contribution of my experience.

In reply to niggle:

Not really. Apparently the whole population of Lisbon saw the sun dance around once.

consider what is more likely:

(a) Consciousness is a complex state that famously and regularly 'invents' experiences/visions etc. Combine this with a propensity towards suggestibility and a willingness to believe stories and you get a rich history of superstition and belief

(b) There really are 'supernatural' entities/phenomena that defy 'normal' physics/biology/common sense which can hurl stuff about/appear at will (usually at night conveniently) but there really is no real evidence.

If you are religious I expect (b) is a more likely scenario since once you belive in supernatural beings or spirits/forces then where do you stop?

In reply to Hjonesy:

Derek Acorah has been exposed as a fake now hasn't he?

I don't know why more psychics aren't prosecuted for fraud when they charge for talking to spirits.

People who feel powerless over their own circumstances seem attracted to ideas that no-one can control or know about.

In reply to Ian:


The second comment does not logically follow from the first. You could equally well say that there is more to this world than we understand, so yes to believing in the tooth fairy. Or in the healing power of eating dog faeces.

Having an open mind is fine, as long as you take care not to let your brain fall out of the hole!