UKC

Is there really much of a difference?

In my case I am looking at a Glasgow Tenement (around 100ys old).

Cheers

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

In my experience a Homebuyer's survey doesn't tend to tell you much you couldn't work out for yourself with a smattering of common sense.

E.g. "Electrical fittings look old, and so the house may benefit from re-wiring". "There are small cracks to the external rendering, which are likely to be only the result of normal movement with age, but a full strucutural survey is recomended to confirm this".

As I recall, they won't move furniture or lift carpets, so there's a limit to what they can do, anyway.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

I was told that if you are going to go for something more than the valuation survey you might as well go for the full survey as the homebuyer one isn't much cop.

I didn't bother with anything more than the valuation survey, figuring that if the house I was buying had lasted 100 years and it wasn't obviously going to fall down then it was probably pretty sound.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle: For a house of that age, I would say there are two options.

1. Valuation Survey and a bit of commonsense.
2. Full structural.

The Homebuyers is as far as I am aware (I am not a surveyor) designed for relatively modern houses (post say 1970).

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:
We have just bought a 100yr old cottage in Moray and we went for the valuation survey, if they pick up on stuff on the valuation survey that needs looking at further they will tell you, they won't ignore obvious signs of structural damage/rot etc. It gives you all the information you need for a warm fuzzy feeling or to then go and get areas of worry looked at in more detail by specialists if you need to. Anything more is a waste of money imho as all of the land ownership/rights of access stuff they look at in a full survey will be covered by your solicitor if you plan to go ahead (and you then get to set conditions on your offer so you aren't chained to the purchase)

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

I had a homebuyers survey on my house. If I did it again i'd either not bother or get a full structural survey. Its not worth the paper its written on. One section of it says theres loose render on the rear of the house. Theres 2 spots which are slightly lose down by corners where you'd expect it to be a problem. The survey doesnt say that, it makes it sound like the whole house needs to be stripped and fixed. Its more of an arse covering exercise for the surveyor than a useful document for yourself.
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In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

The Homebuyers survey is designed for houses of a non specialist design and or construction and is commissioned by the lender to confirm the level of security. A surveyor should note any obvious building defects but it is not a structural survey, nor is the more detailed valuation survey.

A Valuation Survey will include a full inspection of the property and will not any defects and is more detailed in how the valuation figure is determined.

Both of the above are undertaken by General Practice surveyors, who whilst having a working knowledge of construction and design, are not Building Surveyors.

For a house of 100 years I would commision a building survey, there could be such nasties as high alumina cement or similar in there.

Plus, you are in Scotland so you have legal protection once your offer is accepted, hence you will not be gazumped.

Many thanks to all, very helpful.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

Mail me if you want more advice on this, I am not a residential surveyor - I do corporate leisure but I can give you a steer.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

Always taken the view that when buying 100 year old properties a full stuctural is well worth the money if you can afford it.

Shop around and find a good surveyor preferably by recommendation.

It could save you a fortune after all you are probably spending alot of money on buying the house. Just look at as protection.

Next speak to the surveyor afterwards and get them to tell you what they think. If you diasgree with what they say discuss it. You are paying for their opinion.

it's like anything in life...you get what you pay for.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

I am a chartered surveyor and am doing Homebuyer Surveys and Building Surveys every day.

A Valuation Survey is just a valuation, the surveyor will not do an in depth inspection - it is just cursory, and it should never be relied upon if you are concerned about the condition of the property.

A Homebuyer Survey is a concise report and the inspection should be thorough, and cover much the same ground as a full Building Survey (thats what I do anyway). The difference lies in the detail reported. The HBS will not report on minor defects, unless the cumulative total is sufficient to affect the value. Significant items will be reported. The definition of "significant" is where in the surveyor's opinion the defect is serious enough to affect the value of the property. The surveyor will also report on urgent or developing repairs which if not dealt with will result in significant damage or problems. It is ideal for small properties, particularly post WW2 construction, and for flats *. It will include a Valuation and a re-instatement valuation for insurance purposes.

A Full Building Survey is a bespoke survey, and will report in a lot more detail, and cover any particular matters of concern to the buyer. It is ideal for large or period property, or propertiies of non conventional construction. It will not nessessarily include a valuation, and is often undertaken by Building Surveyors who may not be Valuers.

* I see you are talking about a Tenement. It is very difficult to do a Full Buiding Survey on a flat in isolation from the other flats in the building. A lot will depend on the Lease Terms and your share of maintenance liability.

If you are going for a Homebuyer Survey it is absolutely vital that you talk directly with the surveyor who will be doing it to discuss with him/her your particular concerns, and just what they will be doing. If you are unclear about anything in their report discuss it with them and ask them to expand. This is the advantage of using an individual Chartered Surveyor who has been recommended to you rather than one of the faceless large multiple firms where you generally have no control over which surveyor does it.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:
The first house I wanted to buy i went for the homebuyers report - it didn't show up anything I hadn't already spotted when I viewed the property.

The second house I went for just the valuation plus a free investigation/quotation from a local builder recommended by the estate agent for a couple of the points raised.
This definitely felt like better value for money.

(Both houses were approx 100yrs old brick terrace.)

In reply to Humphrey Jungle: when I heard the purchaser of my last house had ordered a homebuyers report I thought Uh ohh, here we go, but, it didn't mention anything bad except to get the back boiler checked out and there were damp patches on walls from where new plaster was drying out and he missed that. The last 2 valuation surveys done on my other houses had same issue of plaster drying and it was picked up both times to be checked for damp, didn't seem like the homebuyers offered any extra detail for the money to me, although it might pick up on stuff I newbie to home ownership might miss.

In reply to Humphrey Jungle:

I have noticed a lot of posters have relied on just the mortgage valuation, and yes, on the law of averages you will probably be OK. However I also see the misery and financial dispair caused to people when I get called in to "pick up the pieces" and advise where things have gone wrong following a purchase where people had decided not to have any form of survey over and above the basic valuation. I know it is my bread and butter, but my advice to anyone contemplating proceeding without a survey is don't unless you have a very sound and in depth knowledge of building construction. You are gambling with thousands, even tens of thousands of pounds for the sake of saving a few hundred.

In reply to Trangia: true, I have been lucky I guess upto now, I will once I start with the real wrecks be getting a strucural survey.

In reply to Trangia:

Agreed, even in the corporate market I see companies taking the chepaest valuation, only to find themselves exposed because the valuer did not have the requisite experieince and thus over valued the holding

In reply to Trangia:


These will inevitably be the people who pay the AA £150 to check over the Three grand banger they are buying!

In reply to William Bovine-Excreta 17:

As you've been so helpful so far...

Just got results of the Valuation survey. Bad news is damp readings on quite a few walls and will need a new roof soon! Not too bothered about the roof as I knew it was original and would need replaced at some point but Surveyor recommended I get a timber and damp specialist in for an estimate. Good news is if I am scared off by the damp I've only lost £230. I was never that keen on the flat BUT my good lady is, though I do like the location.

Should I run a mile or get the specialist in?

In reply to Humphrey Jungle: when you gat the damp man in, made sure he uses the system where they drill in to the brick put the dust in a portable pressure vessel with some chemical stuff, that then gives a much more accurate view of the moisture content of the brick, I had damp mentioned in survey for the last 5 houses I have bought, confirmed by wood moisture meter probeing dudes, when it was nothing more than surface condensation through poor ventillation, couple of weeks with windows open dehumindifyer running and damp is gone. If you are concerned about it being rising damp do not bother with ripoff pressure injecting, hack plaster off upto 1 meter high and let dry out, then coat with 2 coats feb SBR throwing builders sand on the last coat to give a key, replaster with specialist damp plaster and your sorted for a tenth of the price the damp boys charge and just as effective (or more so as there is less chance of this barrier failing whereas pressure injecting can fail). make sure you get a couple of grand knocked off price anyway for the hassle it will cause you sorting it out.

One thing to note is that your Mortgage company will probably have their own 'pet' surveyors who they will insist do the valuation. My recommendation would be that you only get the valuation from your mortgage surveyors. If you want a full housebuyers survey, organise this yourself with someone who is working for you, not the mortgage company. You may even find it cheaper this way!