UKC

I once heard a story about a guy who failed to find the way back to the surface on a big cave dive somewhere and had to sit it out in a small airpocket deep underground. He was found months later with a couple of weeks of facial hair growth and messages to his wife and mother scrawled on the walls. His headtorch would have run out of power in a few hours.
Probrably untrue but quite chilling nontheless.

In reply to Lizard:

did he shave while he was there?

rob.

In reply to Lizard:

I saw a documentary on cave diving. One guy told of searching for his mate, who'd got lost. With the air tanks, they work on a "one third in, one third out, one third for emergencies" rule. His mate had been down for just over half his air-time. He found his mate, and started to lead him back - but had to keep his distance, because he knew that best mate or not, the guy would fight him for his air when his own ran out...

In reply to silverback:
well there wasn't much else to do.

In reply to Lizard:
Being claustrophobic I find all caving stories horrible!

In reply to Lizard: I was once exploring the depths of JCT's Hole, in South Yorkshire . It's a deep system and very wet. I found the drummer from a formerly well-known 80's Scottish pop band, wedged in a side crevice, completely mummified. The poor lad must have been inexperienced, and simply went in too deep.

Footnote: JCT's Hole has since been closed to access, both to clubs and individuals. I understand that pirate entries are discouraged by a wild-haired keeper with a big gun.

In reply to Lizard:

Does mine exploring count?

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner: I think you'll find that's "my exploring".

In reply to Dave C:

Likewise. When I was a kid in Hayfield I remember reading a chilling account in the High Peak Reporter of a lad who was trapped at the hips in a passage. Rescuers could reach him & tried everything for about 3 days or more. He eventually died & the pot was sealed.

Even the names are scary - 'Dead Man's Handshake' etc

In reply to Greenbanks:

Didn't they gas him? or was that a myth i'm sure theres a case where one lad was definately a goner so the doctors poisoned him to save him the grief then concreted up the passage

In reply to KeithW:
Similar story, and I only have a rough memory of it, but the crux was: diver and buddy on a scooter head into a cave but the scooter dies on them, followed by the second scooter. At this point they sensibly decide to abandon the dive and start swimming back. From what can be made out, due to the increased exertion of now having to swim one air bottle was used and they proceeded to buddy breath....not much further up masks, flippers and torn bits of wetsuit were found and one of the bodies had scratches to the face. Not much further up the second body was found. Apparently they had fought for the last remaining air, but were still 8 minutes from their left full tank.

On another note, there was cave diving story I read once where rain flooded the cave and the 3 divers stirred up silt and couldn't find their way out. Ended up in a dead end that gradually flooded. Light ran out, breathing became difficult and they knew they would die. The description of their panic and mental state at the time was pretty horrifying. Fortunately they were rescued pretty much in the nick of time, but as far as they were concerned, they were simply waiting to drown.

In reply to Greenbanks:

There was a similar one in Matlock - some guy and his dog i believe.

Still don't understand how they couldn't get him out.

Fex.

In reply to Greenbanks:

Pete Livesey, a keen caver, named Mossdale Trip, at malham, i believe (or is it Gordale?), after this event:

http://www.grantham.karoo.net/paul/graves/mossdale.htm

In reply to BrianT: did they gas that lad?

In reply to trolly:
I think maybe you're thinking of the Neil Moss incident?

In reply to BrianT: The one where the lad was trapped was at Peak Cavern. Neil Moss slid down an s-shaped gulley but couldn't get out as one arm was by his side, the other was above his head, so when ropes were dropped to him, he couldn't tie himself on. Carbon monoxide built up in the tunnel and he eventually died. He's still sealed in there. A google pulls up basic details but the full story is in a book called The Cave Explorers by Jim Eyre. Worth a read, even if you aren't a caver. I know all the best caving disaster stories as my father (was a keen caver) has a scrapbook of disasters. Morbid but interesting.

In reply to Nim:

Was just going to post that tale! But you've got more detail.
A small error though - it was carbon dioxide (CO2) build-up, not carbon monoxide (CO).

See: http://www.harstoncc.freeserve.co.uk/news.htm

In reply to KeithW: Oh yeah. Posting too fast to pay attention to detail as usual. Doh.

In reply to Lizard:
This lists lots of accidents, in an overall history of UK caving. No graphic details, but the imagination is enough..."walker falls down Gaping Gill and killed". <shudder> anyone who's looked down it can only imagine the horror of slipping into that black chasm.

http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/~arb/cpc/century.html

In reply to Lizard:

Not a horror story with death but chilling none the less is "Dead Man's Handshake" in Mr C Bonington's compendium of stories Quest for Adventure.

Worth picking up at the library.

In reply to BrianT:

Or thinking you have 1 long rope in your rope bag and it turning out to be 2 shorter ones... And finding this out by feeling the loose end of the rope in your hand as you're abbing in... (AND there being no knot tied into the end. Eeek!)

In reply to Lizard:

A favourite one of the cavers in our club is when a new hole was being opened up and they were lowering someone down. Hearing what sounded like a shout to pull him up, they struggled to finally winch him out. Turned out he had lowered through the carcass of a peutrifying cow, then been wrenched back through on the way up.

In reply to thread:

and people wonder why cavers and climbers don't mix! I was never sold on the idea of caving beforehand but some of these stories are terrifying! <shudders and knows she won't be able to sleep tonight>

do you reckon there's a caving site somewhere full of horrible climbing stories?

In reply to Clare:

They go down we go up.

Its the most primal sporting hatred that goes back to dawn of human origins.

Oh hang on didn't we evolve because we came down from the trees not back up them...oh shit i think i've just released the notion that climbers are indeed more primative than cavers shite

In reply to Black Heart Billy:


Naah, they'er the ones trying to find a way back into the primeval ooze.

In reply to psd:

Good rescue!

In reply to Clare:

We sent Chromlech down a deep bell shaped cavern in Beddgelert. He had to wriggle through a marsh stream to get under the grid and took a big swing as the belay point was half way across the grid.

When he got down to the bottom, his feet went up to his ankles in what we thought was mud. It turned out that he was standing in a mound of carcasses in the middle of a sealed pool of dead creatures.

They had built up over the hundred or so years as a new one fell throgh the opening above. There were, rabbits, rats, mice and thousands of frogs trapped in there, and the stench was bad. He had to prussik up completely covered in kak and smelling very bad.

Fex.

In reply to Black Heart Billy:

But didn't we step out of dingy and dark caves milenia ago into the bright sunlight. Are cavers only harping back to caveman days/mentality.

Thus proving climbers higher status and level of development.

In reply to Black Heart Billy:

"Its the most primal sporting hatred that goes back to dawn of human origins."

I thought that was skaters and bladers.

James

In reply to Rothermere:

Or Surfers and spongers

In reply to Rothermere: like swim bladers in fish?

In reply to Lizard:

Just as a matter of interest... there are a lot of tragedies being discussed in detail here, with nothing but morbid curiosity.

Yet whenever there is a climbing related tragedy and someone asks for details, it's the same old conversation that starts up, either that the matter shouldn't be discussed or that it's needed to highlight the problem.

As far as I can see, there is none of that concern here- and particularly relating to the Neil Moss tragedy- does anyone even have the vaguest idea what Neil, his family and the multitude of heroic rescuers went through during that time?

In reply to Arboretum:

Well, we can tell that he certainly didn't go through that hole...

In reply to psd: laughing my cock off

In reply to psd:

I was biting my tongue not to come up with a deeply dark post to that...

bad boy you bad boy indeed.

In reply to Black Heart Billy: that comment has made my rockfax week

In reply to Black Heart Billy: he has been elevated

In reply to Lizard:

Muz is an ex-caver (he got too big for his wetsuit - LOL!) and he said the cavers used to mock climbers because they always tried to find the most difficult way up stuff, whereas cavers always tried to find the easiest way down. I don't think the lycra helped their cause either...

In reply to trolly:

Indeed, i didn't want to upset the resident bed wetter brigade but PSD has done us proud!

In reply to TN:

Thus climbers are in a constant search for development and cavers presumably in a constant quest for retardation

In reply to TN:

most of the cavers i know have quite sturdy guts, which surprises me as i'd think that being slim would be of benefit for worming one's way through holes.

In reply to Nim:

The name Neil Moss I do recall. Thanks.

In reply to Clare:

Neoprene is a wonderful thing and (provided they can fasten the zip) hides a multitude of sins...

In reply to TN:

one of my friends was trying to convince me to try caving, telling me about all the amazing spaces under the dales, but I'm a bit claustrophobic and it just seems terrifying. (not so) fond memories of going into big 'tourist' caves as a kiddy on school trips...

In reply to Clare:

I thought it'd be nasty, but it really isn't. The most worrying thing is some of the stuff you climb on wearing wellies that you wouldn't DARE if you could only see it... Oh, and the oversuits that make you look like a tellytubby!

Muz broke a cave once...
And stood in a dead sheep (good job he was wearing wellies, I guess)
And his brother got stuck in a squeeze once too - it was a bit like trying to push a cork into a bottle..

Hmmm, I don't suppose any of that helped, did it? Sorry!

In reply to psd: That's hilarious, please can we have some russian school siege gags as quick as you can!

In reply to Arboretum: Read Jim Eyre's book and it'll give you a pretty fair indication of what everyone went through. I'm not sure I would call those particular rescuers heroic as they weren't in any danger themselves. Don't get me wrong, I think cave rescue, like fell rescue, is a marvellous thing and have nothing but respect for the people who do it - but there are incidents where "heroic" would be better applied (eg getting people out of flooded caves where the rescuers are risking their own lives to help).

In reply to TN:

A bit of blubber is a good thing when you're sitting up to your ears in black ooze. During my formative years some cavers emerged from that cave near Om at Stoney Middleton that smells like a cow's arse. It was a nice summer's day - shorts and T-shirts - and they were simply stinking. Put me off that game for life.

'The Darkness Beckons' by Martin Farr (which has just been republished) is a must read for an insight into the life of the definitive complete loons - the cave diver. Sort of like abseiling at night in a blizzard on 5mm rope

In reply to Nim: Not in any danger themselves? That's a riciculous thing to say. Have you also read the account in 'Life and Death Underground by James Lovelock? I think the 2 attempts by Ron Peters to enter the tube himself and attach a rope to Neil Moss only to himself suffer the ill effects of carbon dioxide were pretty heroic.

In reply to The Voice of Reason:

Not unless my own particular throw-away insensitivity and a handy feedline happen to coincide, no.

In reply to nniff:

Cave diving: the only sport to make base jumping seem like a safe option

In reply to Arboretum:

This is very true and I apologise for the shallow nature of the post. Many caving stories I've heard are such campfire scare stories that you almost presume them to be at best, a bad case of chinese whispers and at worst completely made up. You don't really take a compassionate response which is really bad.

Is the infection you get in your lungs common in the UK? In South Africa there is apparently a mould or fungus that grows on bat shit that gets into your lungs and starts to grow. Apparently you need a good dose of antibiotics to get rid of it first time, but are ok after that.

Was always enough to put me off.

In reply to Clare: Loads of people cave and climb. When I started climbing, it was very common.

In reply to BrianT:

there seems to be an 'affectionate' rivalry between the two among people i know, though i do know a couple of hybrid people.

In reply to Clare:

The sport of cave-climbing ought to be more popular - lots of candidates (eg Lockwoods)

In reply to Greenbanks:

Yeah, adding a waterfall into the equation does liven things up a bit.

Fex.

In reply to Greenbanks: Gaping Gill has a HVS/A2 route up the main shaft.